MPEG-4 XviD Koepi 24062003-1 Encoder Guide

[snowbeach]

Hello guys,

a new version of my guide is available now.

MPEG-4 XviD Koepi 24062003-1 Encoder Guide:
- B-frames settings changed.
- 2.1. Ripping and demuxing: The use of the overall track gain is useful for 6ch AC3 tracks. If you are dealing with 2ch AC3 tracks, then it is probably better to use hybridgain.
- cosmetical things

Comments, critiques, etc. are appreciated. ;)

Regards

[yaz]

Originally posted by snowbeach
Comments, critiques, etc.

good & usuful, as usual.

just one thing at the first read. your comments on vhq is a bit contradictory. afaik, all modes of vhq is safe now, no harm on quality (syskin's comment)
with b-frames activated a new scene change detection algo kicks in. it's more sensitive than the old one (syskin, koepi).
vhq1/mbf0 (no b-frame, new scd) works fine but max i-frame not kept (my comment :-(
vhq1/mbf-1 (no b-frame, old scd???) no effect, all keyframes inserted at max.

the bests
y

[snowbeach]

Yes, you are right. Forgot to change it. Done now! :D

PS: Have not changed the version. The VHQ mode changes are in ver 20030701!

[Selur]

@yaz: strange, in all the tests I did with vhq&"max bframe"=0, max Iframe intervall was kept,.. is there anything 'specia' about the source you used?
(extremly dark/light/noise/..)

Cu Selur

[BiaTch 5.0]

You recommend the use of trellis,
trellisquantbug (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54812&highlight=trellis+RD)

edit: good work so far! I look foward to your updates

[loni_blues]

@snowbeach,

In your guide it says: Note: Set the Below i-frame distance value (FPS/2) to 12 for 23.976 FPS, to 13 for 25.000 FPS and to 15 for 29.970 FPS. By 23.976 FPS do you refer to those NTSC movies where Force Film was activated in DVD2AVI and by 29.970 FPS to those where Force Film was not?

Thanks for a wonderful guide!

Loni Blues

[Selur]

it's not about forcefilm or not (I prefer IVTC), but in general fps.

Cu Selur

[itsme_4ucz]

Thanks for a wonderful guide!
once again.

[snowbeach]

Some new, minor things added: ;)

MPEG-4 XviD Koepi 24062003-1 Encoder Guide - version 20030702:
- B-frames settings: Suggestion not to go higher than 2 at Max B-frame settings. It is safe to use 2 for low and high bitrate solutions.
- Chroma motion info added (Koepi): Use chroma (color) information to assist with motion detection - usual MPEG-1/2/4 encoding just uses luminance information for searching the motion.

[Selur]

"just uses luminance information for searching the motion."
Oh, I thought that it kind of additionally uses the luminance information, so thanks for the info :)

Cu Selur

[loni_blues]

Thanks Selur, but may be I did not express myself clearly. What I wanted to know was if the value in FPS in the notes refers to the one of the dvd2avi project made by Robot4Rip (which activates force film automatically if the movie is NTSC Film > 95%). Therefore, for instance, if the movie is NTSC Film < 95%, the value I get when I open the dvd2avi project in GK is 29.970. I´d like to know if that is the value to which the notes in Snowbeach´s guide refer: the value in FPS you get in Gordian Knot when you open the dvd2avi project made with Robot4Rip.
Note: Set the Below i-frame distance value (FPS/2) to 12 for 23.976 FPS, to 13 for 25.000 FPS and to 15 for 29.970 FPS. Loni Blues

[Asmodian]

@loni_blues
It is not necessarily that frame rate (it is if you don't do anything else that changes the FPS) but the frame rate of the video during the encode to xvid. If you did not do a force film but do a IVTC then use the 23.976, if you do a bob then use a below i-frame distance of 30 (because the 29.970 frame rate goes to 59.94 when doing a bob) - it is the frame rate of the final video that is important.

[loni_blues]

Thanks a lot, Asmodian! I think I finally got it.

Loni Blues

[loni_blues]

@snowbeach,

In your (excellent) guide, it says:If FPS equals 29.970 you did not choose Force Film in DVD2AVI and will have to perform IVTC (explained later on in the guide). For now set FPS to 23.976. And later:If you activated IVTC at Field Operations the IVTC in avs -> correct Frame Count will not be grayed out and you have to check it. The thing is that if I set FPS to 23.976 and then activate IVTC at Field Operations, the IVTC in avs -> correct Frame Count does remain grayed out and can´t be checked. I thought it might be a bug in GKnot, but I did some research and found this:Originally posted by len0x
I think I know the cause of both your problems.

1) When using IVTC - never set fps manually to 23fps! If you chose to IVTC on save AVS window, then all you have to do is to make sure check box on encode window is set properly - "IVTC in AVS" (and GK automatically will take care of frame rate). http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55125

and: Originally posted by TheWEF
N_F is right. you should not change fps manually but use the checkbox instead. actually this only makes a difference if you are encoding credits separately. overhead calculations are more exact if creditsstart is recalculated as well.

wef.

So, may be doing both things is incompatible and it seems best not to set the FPS to 23.976 in the Frames tab in Gknot.

See you,
Loni Blues

[trance]

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

[DanielSun]

Thx for the great job!

Regards Daniel.

[trance]

So, may be doing both things is incompatible and it seems best not to set the FPS to 23.976 in the Frames tab in Gknot.

If this is true, for compressiblity test, FPS should be set to 23.976 to get the correct value (because it will be 23.976 by enabling ITVC later on) and after the test, it should be set back to 29. Correct?

[DDie]

First of all congratulations for this guide. As I'm don't have time to study this forum every day or test the best settings myself it helps a lot to find good settings.

There is only one thing that could be changed:

You write that one should use h.263 above bitrates of 900kbps. I think that doesn't help much, because depending on the resolution you choose it could be more than 900kbps.

You could be more precise by indicating the bits/pixel ratio. (even though it strongly depends on video you use (action film or a documentation..))

[yeeyy]

Hi, I am a n00b in DVD encoding.

I have download the guide following the instruction. Currently I am stuck in chapter 2.

Do I need to start Robot4Rip before carry out the encoding?

[yeeyy]

A gentle bump.

Guys, no answer???

[AmiRage]

Of course ... without ripping/demuxing no encoding.

You waited 6 days for an answer without simply trying ... :scared:

[Selur]

Robot4Rip does the ripping&co, so it really might help to do the ripping before the encoding,.. ;)

[loni_blues]

Hi,
I was wondering if we shouldn´t use compressibility instead of bitrate (900 kBit/s) as a reference for choosing XviD´s settings. I believe compressibility relates to quality better than bitrate. Shouldn´t we use a certain compressibility value such as I don´t know, 60%?
Please enlighten me on this matter,
Regards,
Loni Blues

[Selur]

And then, what about the people who need a specific maximal bitrate (e.g. for streaming) or a specifig filesize or like me prefer to do high quality, high bitrate encodes with a custom matrix and so don't really care about compressibility ?

I think bitrate is the way to stay with, I personally don't see that we would gain something though this.

Cu Selur

[DDie]

Originally posted by Selur

I think bitrate is the way to stay with, I personally don't see that we would gain something though this.

I still think that indicating the bits per pixel value is more helpful if there isn't a standard resolution recommended.

[loni_blues]

I still think that indicating the bits per pixel value is more helpful if there isn't a standard resolution recommended.
Yes, but doesn´t compressibility represent quality better? Doesn´t the quality you get depend more on the way a certain movie compresses than on the absolute number of bits/(pixel*frame)? What´s the use of a compressibility test, then?
Regards,
Loni Blues

[toraneko]

@loni_blues

I agree with you
by now, what I do is :
1°) do a regular 1st pass
2°) in GK, adjust the desired file-size (afterwards) so that the compressibility test give me the percentage wanted (for instance 60 %)
3°) do a regular 2nd pass

I can bear it by now... :)

[CHAOSMAN33]

any updates on the guide snowbeach? thanks

chaos

[snowbeach]

@CHAOSMAN33

After a long abstinence from this forum, because of having simply no time, I am "back" again... Though I still have not enough time! :D

But to answer your question: I think I am probably a bit out dated following the discussions at the forum, but I believe that no updates on the guide are needed until a new binary will come out.
Or is there somebody who disagrees?

[Th3-S4int]

I think the maximum of b-frame threshold changed from 90 to 60 (iam not 100% sure, but i think i read it some where, but i will test it soon wheater the comp. change)

[mmebane]

Originally posted by snowbeach
@CHAOSMAN33

After a long abstinence from this forum, because of having simply no time, I am "back" again... Though I still have not enough time! :D

But to answer your question: I think I am probably a bit out dated following the discussions at the forum, but I believe that no updates on the guide are needed until a new binary will come out.
Or is there somebody who disagrees?

I know Doom9 has a Robot4Rip guide, but if you add one into your guide, you would have a complete guide to DVD transcoding using the GordianKnot Rip Pack w/ XviD. :D


Also, you should add in exactly _which_ subtitle files are needed. After running Robot4Rip, the following subtitle-related files are output:

THE_GOONIES.idx
THE_GOONIES.rar
THE_GOONIES.sub.cc.raw
THE_GOONIES.sub.cc.srt
THE_GOONIES.sub.cc.unicode.srt

(at least, for The Goonies.)

You simply say "add your 2 subtitle files". Which 2?


Anyway, excellent guide, it really was the thing that made me able to do a good transcode!

[Selur]

@snowbeach: Will there still be a rip guide included in the next version of the guide ? Just asking because your files are hosted in germany afaik,..
(new copyright law=> could cause trouble)

Cu Selur

[t3ch]

Was wondering when a new version would come out, good job and thanks a bunch :)

[snowbeach]

@The Khan Artist

I will see if I am going to add the R4R section... :D

@Selur

Thanks for the info. I know. I am checking some webspace outside of Germany... But if somebody has some webspace to offer, he/she is welcome... ;)

[t3ch]

I could probably host it for you (if you were being serious). About how much bandwidth does your site usually take up?

[snowbeach]

Many thanks to t3ch for hosting the guide at his webspace/domain (outside of Germany)!!! :D
See my sig...

[yeeyy]

Originally posted by The Khan Artist
I know Doom9 has a Robot4Rip guide, but if you add one into your guide, you would have a complete guide to DVD transcoding using the GordianKnot Rip Pack w/ XviD. :D
This is a good suggestion, thus make the guide more complete. :D

[ShaoMonk]

Hello..

i didnt want to open another Thread.. just want to reply here..

which options do i need to change to get optimal desired size.

When i put the size i want in second pass box.. i dont get always the size i want.. for example.. i want to have the size of 1100 mb.. i put 1126400 into desired size box.. but i get always 900 mb.. how many times i rip.. is there an option.. which allows to calculate exactly for 2 cd rip.

My Options are almost same as this guide here.. except MPEG instead H.263.

hope to have an explanation for the exact option which has to do with the size.calculation.

greetz

[superdump]

If the encode is quantiser 2 all the way through (use ffdshow's OSD) and you get a 900mb output then that is the best quality you will get with those settings. If you want to increase the filesize try using a high quality mpeg custom matrix such as HVS-Best. Also try removing any smoothing filters such as deen, fluxsmooth or convolution3d unless the source actually needs them. Finally increase the resolution (but not beyond the cropped resolution) or just use the cropped resolution without resizing it. This should beef up the filesize (and quality) a bit. Also, instead of doing a two-pass, save yourself some time and just do a constant quant 2 single pass for this particular encode to make sure it's producing the maximum filesize possible. If it's still undersized after this then... increase your audio bitrate.