warning!!! DVD2ONE 1.2 have a bug??!!!!

[human75]

hi.
i back up my 7gb dvd with dvd2one 1.2.and,
i try burn with prassi primo dvd 2.00.815(this is latest version for prassi)..prassi see 4.472 gb VIDEO_TS data.this is normal.i'm click burn.problem is begin. prassi write only 800 mb and record succesfully finished !!!!!!! i test 2 diffrent configration pc.but same problem continue.
old version DVD2ONE dont have same problem..do you have idea?
many thanks!!!

Notice: nero 5.5.10.35 dont have same problem.nero burn without problem


HUMAN

[Jazz]

Have you tried playing the VOBs coming out of DVD2One in a software player? Also - if Nero burns them without an issue, why do you think the problem is related to DVD2One?

[human75]

Because too many person use prassi.because nero dont have %100 compatibility!!!
Because prassi have %100 compatibility!
and this a big problem for me!:)
Thanks!!!

[MackemX]

it's bit harsh to blame DVD2One cos I think if Nero burns it OK and Prassi don't then the blame surely lies somewhere with Prassi

which DVD is it and have you tried other DVD's?

as for Nero and incompatiability thats a different issue cos it's been fine for me since I started using back on day 1 many moons ago

p.s. I take it you mean 4,472MB and not 4.472GB

[m1482]

@MackemX:it's bit harsh to blame DVD2One cos I think if Nero burns it OK and Prassi don't then the blame surely lies somewhere with Prassi This problem had been posted many times and programmers of Nero are aware of it...

With Nero you can not get 100% compatibility. Every DVD that I had burn with Nero, doesn't play in one of my DVD players (it doesn't matter which transcoder or ripper I use!!!).
About the problem that "human75" post, this come from DVD2One. I remember having the same problem too with earlier versions of DVD95Copy.
Since that I always burn using IC (100%)and never had any problems...

[MackemX]

Originally posted by m1482
@MackemX: This problem had been posted many times and programmers of Nero are aware of the problem...
With Nero you can not get 100% compatibility. Every DVD that I had burn with Nero, doesn't play in one of my DVD players (it doesn't matter which transcoder or ripper I use!!!).
About the problem that "human75" post, this come from DVD2One. I remember having the same problem too with earlier editions of DVD95Copy. Since that I alway burn using IC (100%)... Why is it some find Nero OK and have never had problems?

I know there are issues with Nero but for some reason I have never had any in over 300 burns using different versions of Nero and setups

I try my backups in all sorts of standalones be it friends, family, neighbours and even the high street electrical stores to check compatiability (including the fussy players, one of which I own) and the only time they don't work is cos I messed up somewhere when ' butchering' it

I don't really wanna get into a Nero discussion and thats why I said it's a different issue cos I've discussed it before in other threads but I feel a lot of the problems (not all of them) are user's OS/Settings and files they are trying to burn related, just as a lot more software related issues normally are down too

but can I ask why is it that some users in this forum etc never have major issues regarding programs or if they do, they find a fix?. I'm forever fixing computers OS systems cos a friend etc has installed something and it doesn't work for one reason or another and it's very rarely due to a bug

I'll admit programs have bugs some more than others (Nero being one of them), but how many so called bugs are really 'USER' bugs?

but again I ask, why does Nero burn it OK yet Prassi doesn't?. Surely if DVD2One is making incompatiable files then using the infamous Nero to burn them is just like tossing petrol onto a burning fire and hoping to put it out :p

[rjgn]

Many problems with Nero probably are due to user error.

However I usually treat this forum as a special case. The forums here are unusual in that a far greater proportion of posters know what they are talking about. Your far less likely to find that a problem is due to use error here than on any other forum.

However I still wonder why people are using Prassi. RecordNow Max is the exact same software but much more up to date. I always use it to burn my dvd's. When it comes to burning dvd's Nero has only just starting working well for me. For a very long time ANY dvd burned with Nero refused to work on one of my dvd players, at all. Because of this I'm very reluctant to burn any dvd's with it incase my next dvd player results in a large collection of dvd's being next to useless.

I think what it comes down to is that Nero got itself a bad reputation amongst knowlegeable users due to early problem when burning dvd's. Now people are unwilling to give it a another chance due to numerous bugs that crop up now and again, plus there's the fact that dvd authoring is much more time intensive and expensive than copying and authoring cd's. Why take the risk of using Nero when other apps have proven track records?

But back on topic. The only way to ensure that it's dvd2one that's the problem is to run the vobs through 1.2 again and try burning. If you still have the same problem run them through an earlier version of dvd2one then check.

[Jazz]

@human75

Have you tried playing the VOBs coming out of DVD2One in a software player? Did they play fine or was there a problem?

[mpucoder]

I'd change the title to "DVD2One 1.2 and Prassi 2.00.815 incompatibility" to be accurate, and to conform to rule 9 (excessive punctuation).

The "blame" falls on both programs, and the DVD spec, in a way. The spec allows some latitude in layout by the authoring program which the burning program can accept, alter, reject, or misinterpret altogether. In this case, Prassi is misinterpreting something that Nero interprets properly. It's like in the old days, where jpg's made by one graphics program would not render properly in another, yet conformed to the standard.

[m1482]

@rjgn:I think what it comes down to is that Nero got itself a bad reputation amongst knowlegeable users due to early problem when burning dvd's. Now people are unwilling to give it a another chance due to numerous bugs that crop up now and again, plus... Every time there is out a new version of NERO, I always test it. At this moment all of them have the same imcompatibility problem with one of my players ( as soon as the DVD player reads the DVD-R it said disk error ). So I insist that if the DVD files are not created correctly, NERO may accept them (creating an useless DVD-R) but Prassi will not accept them (or crash when trying to burn)...

[mrbass]

Originally posted by MackemX
Why is it some find Nero OK and have never had problems?

I know there are issues with Nero but for some reason I have never had any in over 300 burns using different versions of Nero and setups

same here I've never had a problem with Nero (DVD burning that is). With cd burning I was always using Padus Discjuggler and didn't like Nero that much but with DVDs it works great for me. I stopped using Record Now that came with my sony because it wouldn't remember my settings (like closing the session, etc.)

[mpucoder]

This is quickly becoming a burning issue, maybe I'll move it there.

But it is true, we did tests on Nero, and it had problems. Most specifically when the start position of VIDEO_TS.BUP did not follow the end of VIDEO_TS.VOB. This occured whenever VIDEO_TS.VOB was less than 16 sectors in length (and, as many will recall, if the file was absent due to no menu video). The reason for the problem was that most authoring programs lay the disk out so that the bup files are not in the same ECC block (16 sectors long) as the ifo that they are a copy of. The reasoning being if the ECC block is unreadable, then both copies are gone. To ensure the files are in 2 seperate blocks the bup file start position is either moved forward to the next ECC block, or is at least 16 sectors from the end of the ifo. This is a case where the burning program must read the ifo and obey it, as many other pointers are based on this. Nero didn't like the unaccounted for space.

Another common issue is conformance (things such as required files missing, naming convention errors, etc). DVD players differ on how they handle out-of-spec DVDs. Since there is a great deal of redundancy, this is mostly due to which pointers the player relies on. Some burning programs try to correct for errors, others check and refuse to burn, while others don't care. There are even cases where a good layout is changed into a bad layout. Combine that with the number of programs we have that rebuild the ifo structure, and you see a great number of combinations. Most work, some don't.

In closing: use what works for you. It probably isn't 100% correct, but since the program to check for compliance is expensive, it looks like no one, other than the studios, is running it.

[snidely]

mpucoder, which burning program has been tested to have the highest compatability rate with STB players? I have had no issues with Nero, but recently I found that the Nero burned DVD-R's will not play in ANY Toshiba STB (current models, that is). Well, actually I haven't tried any other program, so the Toshiba STB's might not play ANY DVD-R's for all I know. Is this a known issue?

BTW, sorry to be so far off topic, but I figured this thread was already sidetracked. :)

[mpucoder]

I wouldn't know that. What we tested was the ability of the burning programs to burn DVDs authored in 2 different ways, one with no gap, and the other with a 16 sector gap between VIDEO_TS.IFO and VIDEO_TS.BUP Until recently Nero failed that test.

[snidely]

Thanks, mpucoder. I'll try posting in the burning forum. :)

[DMagic1]

Originally posted by m1482
@rjgn: So I insist that if the DVD files are not created correctly, NERO may accept them (creating an useless DVD-R) but Prassi will not accept them (or crash when trying to burn)...

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Nero will not alert you to errors with the DVD files in most cases. Human, if at all possible try using RecordNow Max and see if you get errors with your files again.

[wumpi]

Originally posted by mpucoder
In closing: use what works for you. It probably isn't 100% correct, but since the program to check for compliance is expensive, it looks like no one, other than the studios, is running it. Well, that is a shame. I think someone like Ahead (Nero) should have enough money to invest in such a program. One would be DVD Video Verifier and/or DVD+RW Video Verifier, both by Philips to be found here:

http://www.licensing.philips.com/ordering/soft/documents305.html
http://www.licensing.philips.com/ordering/soft/documents311.html

Price is $500 for each, which not too much to ask. I am really surprised that a reputated company like Ahead did not try to make the "closest to complient" DVD burning software yet.

[Megazoid]

Originally posted by m1482
@MackemX: This problem had been posted many times and programmers of Nero are aware of it...Since that I always burn using IC (100%)and never had any problems...
I'm sorry, but wat is IC ?

[jzaman]

Some DVD players can tolerate minor variations such as Sony players. Pick a dozen or so different players as a cross section of all DVD players and then you can determine the degree of compatibility. If I only check it out on Sony players and it always works then I would never know any better. For example, I have had repeatable playability problems with Nero 6 on 50% of non-Sony players. I now use CopyToDVD (link below) for light transcodes. Playability is near 100% with only the burn engine changed. Same hardware, media and transcoded titles on hard drive. Just my two cents..



http://www.vso-software.fr/

[jzaman]

Update:

On another forum, someone recommended that I try the latest version of Nero 6, version 6.0.0.2.8 that was just released after I complained about the compatibility problems with DVD players. So far the new version is cranking out compatible stuff just like it did in the best revision of version 5.5. I'm still pissed that in a final (not beta) release Nero did not fix a critical problem like this until this release but I guess I'll just grit my teeth and see if it is truly fixed after some more "re-burns" of the same stuff that failed with the previous version of Nero 6.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by Megazoid
I'm sorry, but wat is IC ?
IC is InstantCopy :)

[2COOL]

Originally posted by MackemX
IC is InstantCopy :) "IC!" said the blind man to the deaf man who couldn't speak...:p:p

[Megazoid]

thanks!

So, if I'm authoring my dvd's in Scenarist 2.7 and burn them with Nero, and guys from the factory sending me this report:

Error Message
Video Manager IFO and BUP files in the same ECC block
The DVD-Video specifications require that the Video Manager Information
file (VIDEO_TS.IFO) and its backup (VIDEO_TS.BUP) NOT be recorded in the
same ECC block.

Background
For redundancy purposes, the DVD-Video specifications require a backup
file for the Video Manager Information file. If this file should become
corrupt, a DVD-Player can locate the backup file and use it instead. If
the two files overlap within the same ECC Block, it is possible that if
the ECC fails, it will cause both files to be unreadable.

Possible Cause
This problem is caused by the authoring system that created the image.
It is the responsibility of the authoring system to ensure that these
files do not overlap within the same ECC Block.

Possible Solution
This problem can only be corrected by an authoring system.

.. then most likely it's a Nero's fault, and if I burn it with, say, RecordNow Max or Scenarist itself the problem will go away?

[jzaman]

Nero 6.0.0.28 appears to resolve the compatability problems that have haunted version 6. CouJO of ImgTool fame (among others I'm sure) gave some wake up calls to Ahead techs with some apparent success. I don't have a compliance test kit or sector/block analysis software to quantify these changes but I have re-burned a dozen titles that choked on quite a few players and they now play perfectly on those same players. I was fooled for two months because I only played them on Sony players that tend to read plastic painted with crap. When I visited some friends with these disks I discovered that I cranked out fifty or more backups that only Sony players can handle.

I now use a non-Sony representative player by my computer to QC the burns. If Nero reverts back I'll catch it right away.

[Megazoid]

"Choked" means completely unplayable or jerky playback ?

[jzaman]

Originally posted by Megazoid
"Choked" means completely unplayable or jerky playback ?

I should have said completely unplayable or not recognizable as DVD Video in a given player. Jerkiness is more of a media or rendering problem. For example, on my Liteon 2001 I'll get a message "(iso disc) cannot display current jpeg file". On others the dirty disk warning or it just won't play without an explanation. When I use the same exact burner, the same exact transcoded title on my hard drive and the same exact media with the new version of Nero (6.0.0.28) it plays fine on these same players. On my Sony 715, Sony 725, Panasonic e60 and Panasonic e80 any structural/positional errors are compensated for. Almost anything plays on "liberal" players with error correcting circuitry and/or programming.