Field order bug latest DoCCE (1.0.1.5)

[DVDRFreak]

Hi noticed that one of the new features is thefield order is set according to the file name that DIF4U creates.

However when it is TFF it should NOT check the flag.
If it is BFF it should check the flag.

If the flag is set CCE will try to convert the video to TFF by shifting everything
one line up. Which results (at least for me) in artifacts at the bottom of the movie.

[BinaryBin]

is this correct?

i had thought if DIF4U named it TFF, then that meant it needed to be encoded with TFF ON, have you done tests and found that to be incorrect?

[DVDRFreak]

Yes,

I did some testing on various PAL DVD's en found that when DIF4U
says TTF it means that the source is TTF en needs no additional conversion bu CCE to encode.

If you check the flag the result will be that there are artifacts in the bottom of te screen because CCE shifts everything one line up.

Tested it with:
GREEN MILE PAL R2
THE GODFATHER R2

[VerbaL]

Hey,

You might wanna read up on Q10 in the CCE faq: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53770

I think the thing you are mentioning has to do with this. It's a confusing topic, but the faq explains it quite clearly. This isn't really a bug in DoCCE but more a "bug" in CCE.

Hopes this helps.

verb

[fourtyfour]

servus...

Q10: What's the deal with the "Upper Field First" option? I heard it has a bug?

The confusion about this option arises from that it works different from what you think. Naturally, you'd think that you set this option according to the field order of the video to be encoded, that is, deactivate it if source is bff (bottom field first) and activate it if source is tff (top field first). However, when you do this the encoded video plays back jerky with artifacts typical for incorrect field order.

So how do we set it right? First, you have to know that CCE (SP as well as Basic) always outputs video that is flagged "top field first" (there is a flag in the MPEG header that tells the player which field of the decoded frame to display first on a TV screen). There is no way in CCE to change this. According to Custom Technology, this is not a bug but a feature of CCE... Actually what happens if you check "Upper Field First" is that CCE assumes that source is bff and converts it to tff so it complies with the always set tff flag. It does so by shifting each frame up by one line, ensuring that the previously bottom fields are now top fields and the video is played back correctly. This is not the most sophisticated way to handle the situation, but it works and you won't notice the missing line at the top.

So here is the rule of thumb: Always uncheck "Upper Field First" unless your video is interlaced AND bottom field first. Progressive material is always top field first.

If for some reason you want to encode bff video without that line shift, there are two ways to do this:


1. Frameserve bff video into CCE via AVISynth and convert it to tff "the right way". Here is a basic AVISynth script that does this:

code:AVISource("E:\Video\holiday.avi")
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd

Uncheck "Upper Field First" in CCE and encode.

2. Uncheck "Upper Field First" and encode bff video directly. Then use ReStream to clear the top field first flag in the MPV file CCE generated. Load the MPV into ReStream (http://shh.dvdboard.de/restream.html), uncheck "top field first" and click "Write!".




Hopefully developers realise that ;)

[DVDRFreak]

Yup I read the faq.

Before I did start using DIF4U, DoCE4U I used to do it all by hand. Must say the programs are great ! :)

I hope BBwoof can solve this CCE issue.

The option should in fact be called Convert to upper field, because that what it does.

[BinaryBin]

so... what is dif4u saying when it names a file with the TFF flag? is it saying the video IS TFF or is NOT TFF?

Because if its saying that the video IS TFF, then in cce, you would UNCHECK Top Field First and if its saying it is NOT TFF, then it should be checking it.

Is that correct?

From that FAQ it says
"So here is the rule of thumb: Always uncheck "Upper Field First" UNLESS your video is interlaced AND bottom field first. Progressive material is always top field first."

So by that does it mean, if its progressive, then the video is already TFF, so it doesn't have to be converted, and Top Field First should be Unchecked?

If thats all true, then dif4u and docce4u are doing it all wrong :/

i'm scared :scared:

also is "Upper Field First" and "Top Field First" the same thing? just making sure.

[DVDRFreak]

After some more testing I am sure that when DIF4U names the file
xxxx.I.TFF.xxx it means that the original video is TFF and flagged as interlaced.

DoCC4U should the uncheck the upperfield first flag (the latest 1.0.1.5 beta does not).

With DIF4U 1.1.6 you can turn of the field check and then edit the profiles of DOCCE4U so it does not checj the flag. This works for me at the moment.

I'm a PAL user and most PAL DVD's are TFF and progressive.

It would be nice however if DOCCE4U would do it automaticly.

[BinaryBin]

Alright, then DVDRFreak, if your video is TFF and Progressive, then that means in DoCCE4U, Top Field First should be UNCHECKED? is that correct? is that what i'm getting from you? just making sure.

[DVDRFreak]

Yes BinaryBin.

If the video is TFF uncheck the option.
If the video is BFF check the option.

I read on the forum somewhere that it is even better to uncheck the option always and for BFF video do a proper converion using this option in the avisynth script.

AVISource("E:\Video\holiday.avi")
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd

I did not try it yet. (PAL user so until now no BFF video 99% of them are TFF around here).

[BinaryBin]

I wonder if that is the cause of a problem I see in encoded videos, video is progressive, and dif4u named the file with TFF, and so in DoCCE4u, it Checked Top Field First.

In encoded videos, Straight Lines, and some edges of objects seem to shimmer. This is not in the original Video, just the encoded ones. By straight lines i mean for example, a straight shot of Stairs, or bleachers, or say Static Text. And when i say shimmer, i'm not saying its incredible bad. Just a little movement of the object. Like a small little flicker. Its kinda hard to explain, overall video is great, and you don't really ever see it, unless like i said, straight horizontal lines, or some edges of objects. And its not interlaced, this is progressive video.

Do you think encoding a progressive video with TFF would cause this? or this has nothing to do with it.

[fourtyfour]

servus...

I wonder if that is the cause of a problem I see in encoded videos, video is progressive, and dif4u named the file with TFF, and so in DoCCE4u, it Checked Top Field First.

BBWoof and Eyes´Only discussed this problem.

They had different sights of the output name :D

I think in next version, DoCCE4u will do the job right :)

[Eyes`Only]

As an interim workaround, I've added a feature to DoItFast4U! 1.1.7 which allows you to flip the T/B in the filenames so DoCCE4U will select the checkbox correctly :D

Yeah, you're welcome. Never let it be said that Eyes`Only didn't support all regions of the globe equally!

[DVDRFreak]

GREAT !,

Thanks a lot I will try it tonight.:)

[DVDRFreak]

Originally posted by BinaryBin
I wonder if that is the cause of a problem I see in encoded videos, video is progressive, and dif4u named the file with TFF, and so in DoCCE4u, it Checked Top Field First.

In encoded videos, Straight Lines, and some edges of objects seem to shimmer. This is not in the original Video, just the encoded ones. By straight lines i mean for example, a straight shot of Stairs, or bleachers, or say Static Text. And when i say shimmer, i'm not saying its incredible bad. Just a little movement of the object. Like a small little flicker. Its kinda hard to explain, overall video is great, and you don't really ever see it, unless like i said, straight horizontal lines, or some edges of objects. And its not interlaced, this is progressive video.

Do you think encoding a progressive video with TFF would cause this? or this has nothing to do with it.

There are to things that I noticed that indicate clearly that the field order is wrong.

1) A strange line at the bottom of the video that seems to flash.
2) The video does not play smooth. Specially noticable in the end credits and on fast moving scenes.

It could be that this is just another one of the effects of wrong field order. My advice would be to just try it again width the correct setting.