Microsoft Video Series 9 - where are the licensing terms?

[teko77]

Dear Sirs,


Here is the scenario: to send encoded video via DVB-T to mobile terminals. For the example below, please consider one would like to use Microsoft Media 9 codecs for video and audio. The unmodified codec would be sent along the encoded video, so that the tranmitter would install the necessary codec and start to play the content.

I have visited the Microsoft website http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/create/licensing.aspx,
but I am still not getting the necessary info.

I downloaded both agreements available on the website, but they do not seem to cover the issue I am after. Please see the following:

If we look at Windows Media Format Components Distribution License, one has the rights to reproduce and install the components into a final product (software or hardware, e.g. a cellular phone) to be sold to the end-user or to an interim product (to be included into a final product) and to distribute such components as part of the products.

However, one does not have here a product as such: the end-users' mobile terminals supposedly already have a player-software and the player would only need the Microft Media Video 9 codec in order to playback the content.

But this is not covered to the agreement in my opinion and I would therefore need further guidance: where can I find out the terms for such distribution of unmofified Microsoft codecs to end-users? Additionally, where are the terms in regard of the usage of such Windows-encoded content? (Where have the values in the table under "How much does Windows Media Audio and Video 9 Series cost to license" come from? And do they in the table only concern the distribution of DVD-content? Where did Microsoft get the value for the "Content Use Fees"?)

Windows Media Format Components Source Development Agreement then seems to concern only the development and making of the modified versions of the Microsoft technology. In this case one would not be interested in mofifying the codec, but just to send it along the video to the end-user.

What agreements should I then be looking at now and where can I get them?


Thank you for any info,




Teko77

[bofw3]

Originally posted by teko77
Here is the scenario: to send encoded video via DVB-T to mobile terminals.
[...]
the end-users' mobile terminals supposedly already have a player-software and the player would only need the Microft Media Video 9 codec in order to playback the content.

Right now, not even Microsoft mobile products (both PocketPC 2002 and SmartPhone) have a Microsoft Media Video 9 codec.

Additionally, where are the terms in regard of the usage of such Windows-encoded content? (Where have the values in the table under "How much does Windows Media Audio and Video 9 Series cost to license" come from? And do they in the table only concern the distribution of DVD-content? Where did Microsoft get the value for the "Content Use Fees"?)

This has nothing to do with the content, but with content encoded with Windows Media, you'll have to pay the fees for the owners of the content anyway.
"Content Use Fees" comes from the fact that in MPEG-4 you have one way of licensing that is based on the usage of the encoded content. Let's take an example, imagine that for a 2 hours basketball game you have to pay $1 fee per user to NBA. If you want to stream it in MPEG-4 you'll have to pay $0.04 per user to MPEG-LA. Final cost per user $1.04. The same happens today with DVDs, for every DVD sold whatever the content $0.03 go to MPEG-LA/DVD Forum, not because of the content but for the usage of the encoding/format patents.

Windows Media Format Components Source Development Agreement then seems to concern only the development and making of the modified versions of the Microsoft technology. In this case one would not be interested in mofifying the codec, but just to send it along the video to the end-user.

If you don't want to develop, just forget it, it's not for you, but you must remeber that to use the Microsoft binary codecs your target platform must be Windows 9x/Me/2000/XP compatible, at least right now.

What agreements should I then be looking at now and where can I get them?

This is the easy one:
http://wmlicense.smdisp.net/v9sdk
With support for the new Windows Media Audio and Video 9 Series codecs, the Windows Media Format SDK provides technology and documentation you can use to create and manipulate Windows Media files in your applications.
Before you can download the SDK, you must first register with Microsoft by filling out the form at the above link. Instructions on how to download this software will then be e-mailed to you. If your application does not need to manipulate content protected with Microsoft digital rights management, you can simply accept the new WMF9S SDK click-through EULA. The click-through EULA grants use and distribution rights if you do not need to manipulate DRM content.
from http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/downloads/list/winmedia.asp

Take this only as an info, as usual you better calling Microsoft, and they will explain it better to you.

Bofw3

[teko77]

Dear bofw3,

Thank you for your answers.

I have some further questions in relation to some of them. Please bare with me :)

Right now, not even Microsoft mobile products (both PocketPC 2002 and SmartPhone) have a Microsoft Media Video 9 codec.
and
...you must remeber that to use the Microsoft binary codecs your target platform must be Windows 9x/Me/2000/XP compatible, at least right now.

Could the Windows Media 9 binary codecs not be used for mobile platform (they had atleast broadened their licensing thems in the above-mentioned distribution agreement to that effect - but as said, the question would not be here to implement the codec into the phones prior they have been sold to end-users at all, but the codec should be sent via DVB-T to the terminal)? If not, what has Microsoft said, when will such codecs be available? Or is the only option to develop those codecs by oneself (in accordance with the source agreement) - ...but how to distribute them then if one does not want to include them to the phones before they are being sold to the end-user (as in the distribution license has been required)?

This has nothing to do with the content, but with content encoded with Windows Media, you'll have to pay the fees for the owners of the content anyway.

Yes, I was referring to the usage fees for content that have been encoded with Windows Media. Where do they get those numbers in the table? (I thought that Microsoft is only making a reference to Microsoft-encoded material on DVD:s by that, could the 0.00 $ be applicable also for streamed content in DVB-T?)

The click-through EULA grants use and distribution rights if you do not need to manipulate DRM content.

What if the manipulation of DRM was necessary, is there another agreement then that I could have a look at?



Thank you for any further info,



Teko77

[ChristianHJW]

If your mobile terminals are PC based, in any form, then waiting for Ogg Theora ( http://www.xiph.org ) as a complete patent and license free solution could be an interesting option for you ...

[bofw3]

Originally posted by teko77
Could the Windows Media 9 binary codecs not be used for mobile platform (they had atleast broadened their licensing thems in the above-mentioned distribution agreement to that effect - but as said, the question would not be here to implement the codec into the phones prior they have been sold to end-users at all, but the codec should be sent via DVB-T to the terminal)? If not, what has Microsoft said, when will such codecs be available? Or is the only option to develop those codecs by oneself (in accordance with the source agreement) -

PocketPC 2003 is announced to be available this month, and will include WM9. I think SmartPhone will also be available with WM9. For other kind of mobile devices, non Windows compatible, you'll have to port (adapt) the codecs yourself (or wait for Microsoft to do that), in accordance with the source agreement.

...but how to distribute them then if one does not want to include them to the phones before they are being sold to the end-user (as in the distribution license has been required)?

This a good question to Microsoft :-)

Yes, I was referring to the usage fees for content that have been encoded with Windows Media. Where do they get those numbers in the table? (I thought that Microsoft is only making a reference to Microsoft-encoded material on DVD:s by that, could the 0.00 $ be applicable also for streamed content in DVB-T?)

Theres in no fees for WM9 encoded content AFAIK, only for the encoder and decoder.

What if the manipulation of DRM was necessary, is there another agreement then that I could have a look at?

http://wmlicense.smdisp.net/licenserequest/
You'll have to request a "WM Rights Manager SDK 9S distribution agreement (Server side)" from this page, you'll also can request any of the other agreements.

Bofw3

[teko77]

Thanks again Bofw3!

BTW, where could one dig up further info on the WM9 codecs on mobile platforms?


Teko77

[Sirber]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
If your mobile terminals are PC based, in any form, then waiting for Ogg Theora ( http://www.xiph.org ) as a complete patent and license free solution could be an interesting option for you ...

Theora is based on VP3, and as far as I know, VP3 isn't good.

[bofw3]

Originally posted by teko77
BTW, where could one dig up further info on the WM9 codecs on mobile platforms?

I'm in the same boat as you, and hoping to have a real scenario (with a real platform) to ask that to Microsoft, that's why I asked you about what mobile devices you're talking about...