Need assistance recreating structure of dvd in Scenarist

[nash]

I wasn't sure whether to ask this in the Newbie forum or in here, but since I have some questions regarding Trilight's screencapture AVI, and since he's moderating here, I'm asking this here. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum.

I'm looking at the IFO I'm trying to recreate in IFOedit:

(There's only 1 PGC so I demuxed by PGC)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/1] blah
[Cell 02] [V/C Id: 2/1] blah
[Cell 03] [V/C Id: 3/1] blah
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 04] [V/C Id: 3/2] blah
[Cell 05] [V/C Id: 4/1] blah
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 06] [V/C Id: 4/2] blah
.
.
.
[Ch 37] [Pg 37] [Cell 59] [V/C Id: 25/1] blah

So in Trilight's screencapture AVI, he matched the Id's of the Cell and then drag/dropped them into the Title and Program as needed. Scenes 1,8,then 48 were done first as according to his IFO. (You have to see the screencapture to know what I'm referring to. It's on his site in the Insomnia notes, you have to scroll down on one of the pages.) Also, he's doing his project by VOBID.

I'm trying to do the same even though I'm doing this project by PGC. (Is this correct? Should I be doing this?) I'm not sure what to do with the [V/C Id: 1/1], [V/C Id: 2/1], [V/C Id: 3/1], [V/C Id: 3/2], etc. I have 37 scenes but there are 59 cells. What should I do here? I've already done the ScenChap chapter copying, and imported the script into Scenarist.

I always get stuck recreating the DVD (IFO) structure whether I follow the doom9 Scenarist guide or Trilight's Uberguide. (I'm using Scenarist, by the way.) I appreciate any help. I figure this should be a pretty straightforward step because I've been searching the forums, reading the guides, and browsing throught the forums and haven't found anyone else with the same problem. It seems like there's something simple that I'm missing but I can't quite figure it out. TIA

[coona]

Hi nash,

as you extract by PGC and not VOBID you can not drag and drop like Trilight (probably - I don´t have appropriate codec for viewing his video) did. There is no need to do it anyway in this case (I guess). So simply export your project into script, create new script with chapters using scenchap, open this new script in Scenarist, add subtitle streams (if you want some), drag and drop the whole PGC as it is in scenario editor, compile, ifoupdate, burn to RW or R (if you are sure ;)).

[nash]

If I drag and drop the whole thing, there's one cell for each program, whereas in the IFO there maybe a several. All in all, there should be 59 Cells for 37 Programs (according to the IFO).

But when I drag and drop, there are 37 Cells for 37 Programs. That is what is confusing me when I drag and drop. And after compiling and IFOupdating and testing, it still doesn't work.

[aquabubble]

Hi nash,

If you are ripping by PGC have you thought about using ReAuthorist to do the job of making your Scenarist project?

http://www.aquabubble.org/ReAuthorist/

[nash]

Yeah, the public version was just released today wasn't it? I'll go home and give it a try and see how it turns out. But it's still bugging me that I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong with the more "manual" method. Reauthorist looks like a really good tool but I'd still like to learn Scenarist, so replies are welcome.

[Eyes`Only]

What coona said was correct and straight to the point. It should work exactly as he said it, as that procedure has been used time and time again by all of us. Kudos on the initiative to want to actually learn Scenarist! You'll find your time much more wisely spent once you do.

Aqua: shame on you for plugging your app (tisk tisk!) and not helping him with the finer points of Scenarist. I thought the idea was to avoid the zombie-nation of one-click zealots? :D

[nash]

Thanks for the replies.

I tried Reauthorist and followed the doom9 guide to the letter (or so I think) and I get these errors (copied from the build tab of bottom left panel in Scenarist:

<beginning of error messages>

Error The number(0.0) of frame in a VOBU is less than 11.99 (around 02:18:52:15).
Warning Exiting is canceled because "ExitVobuSizeError" is 0 in the file Scenarist.ini.
Error Line21 at 00:03:53:02 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #5 and #6).
.
. <bunch of these errors>
.
Error Line21 at 02:11:05:22 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #54 and #55).
Error Can not read a GOP at 02:19:01:06 (try to read = 37432 B; read done = 12452 B).
Error Please check the video stream (K:\FIGHTCLB\VTS02\VTS__02_P01.16~9_1.MPV.M2V) or the .vif file or re-generate them.
Error dvd_mux : DoMux Multiplexing Error
Error Terminated Multiplexing (firsttimereauthorist00.scn-VTS_02_PGC_01_t.vob).
Error Can't read the input stream.
Error Multiplex is failed.
Info Multiplexing failed, Track<VTS_02_PGC_01>

Error MuxFromDB:MuxVTS failed
Error Multiplex failed
Error DVD files could not be created

<end of messages>

I'll go back and try the other method again, dragging and dropping the whole thing after ScenChap. I finally got some DVD-RWs so I won't be afraid to burn. Thanks for the help.

[quantum]

I seem to get those Line21 errors in the 3 projects I've tried using Reathorist/Scenarist. This last one was doing a backup of Tigerland. I had subtitles unchechecked in RA. Any clues what they mean?

Error Line21 at 00:04:40:01 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #4 and #5).
Error Line21 at 00:25:26:20 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #11 and #12).
Error Line21 at 00:31:01:14 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #12 and #13).
Error Line21 at 00:36:44:08 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #13 and #14).
Error Line21 at 01:13:58:22 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #34 and #35).
Error Line21 at 01:16:09:05 or 00:00:00:00 is across the cell boundary(cell #35 and #36).

[aquabubble]

Hi nash,

Originally posted by Eyes`Only
What coona said was correct and straight to the point. It should work exactly as he said it, as that procedure has been used time and time again by all of us. Kudos on the initiative to want to actually learn Scenarist! You'll find your time much more wisely spent once you do.
Yes, it's great that you should be wanting to learn Scenarist - by practicing with it, you will quickly learn to understand the structure and makeup of your DVDs. Once you are comfortable with using it yourself, rather than following a guide, you will be in a much better position to do complex projects or use a tool like ReAuthorist to help you.
Aqua: shame on you for plugging your app (tisk tisk!) and not helping him with the finer points of Scenarist. I thought the idea was to avoid the zombie-nation of one-click zealots? :D
Of course, Eyes, you are totally right. It is not really appropriate for a new-starter to use ReAuthorist straight away - one needs to understand what is going on under the hood so as not to become frustrated. After a couple of glasses of fine Aussie wine I was just too keen to plug my new release I suppose :D


Anyway Nash, let's see if I can give you some assistance here. As both Eyes and Coona have pointed out, you do not need to worry about dragging and dropping. ScenChap has created your cells by creating chapter points within the PGC video track. You do not need to be concerned that you don't have the same number of cells as the original DVD - so long as you've got the same number of chapters, that is all that matters.

However, you say that you have done all this as directed and compiled, but after the IfoUpdate step it "still doesn't work"? Please could you tell me the exact symptoms you are suffering and I might be able to point out where you are going wrong?

[nash]

After I compile:
1.) I rename the VOBs and the IFO
2.) I put everything in a final directory, which includes the renamed VOBs, all the original IFOs and BUPs (I put the reauthored IFO in another directory), and the VIDEO_TS.IFO and BUP file.
3.) I run IFOupdate:
for the "Original IFO Path" I put the original of the IFO of the VTS I just compiled (the one that's in the "final" directory)
for the "Authored IFO Path" I put the IFO that Scenarist created when I compiled (the one that's saved in another directory)
for the "Backup IFO Path" I just put some other backup directory

I disable "Copy Audio and Subpicture Tables" and check the other options as shown in the guides.

(So far so good?)
Then I hit "Update IFO"

Then I test using PowerDVD, using the "DVD files on hard drive" option (or something to that extent). When I test the picture and audio hang right before it gets to the menu (or maybe at the menu, I don't remember, I'll go home and try again tonight). When I just play VTS2, I'm not able navigate by chapter, but I think I can seek using the slider bar. I don't have any other DVD playing software and since I'm barely compressing the video (I don't want to have to take the time and run 3 passes), it won't fit on a DVD-R.

Thanks for the help.

Also, all the original DVD, the VOBs are numbered starting with zero (VTS_02_0.vob, VTS_02_1.vob, ...) But Scenarist outputs starting with VTS_02_1.vob. Does this make a difference?

And what do the Line21 errors mean?

TIA

[aquabubble]

Ah... in your "final" directory you also need the original _0.VOB files, which are the menu VOBs for each VTS - I think this is why you are having problems. We don't normally reauthor these VOBs.

Sounds like the rest of your process is fine. Once you have copied the menu VOBs, remember to use IfoEdit's "Get VTS Sectors" to correct the IFOs before attempting to test.

When I do my reauthored DVD tests, I use both PowerDVD/WinDVD and IfoEdit's DVD Play feature to double check.

[nash]

Ohhhhhhhhh gotcha. :D

I'll try it when I get back home. Thanks a lot.

Also, the *_0.vob files are also of irregular size (i.e. not 1 gig) so I was wondering...

What about the Line21 errors? What do those mean? When I use Reauthorist I can't get the compiling to work. The error messages are posted above.


TIA

[aquabubble]

Originally posted by nash
I'll try it when I get back home. Thanks a lot.

Also, the *_0.vob files are also of irregular size (i.e. not 1 gig) so I was wondering...

What about the Line21 errors? What do those mean? When I use Reauthorist I can't get the compiling to work. The error messages are posted above.

Yeah, the _0.VOB files can effectively stand alone from the _n.VOB files since they only contain the menu video information. As such they are not muxed into the same VOBs as the main video.

These line21 errors are very strange. I think I know what the issue is - I may have to perform some kind of "correction" on the line21 file itself in order for it to fit around the cell timings but I'm just guessing. I am awaiting some files from people so that I can debug, but I will give an update when it's done.

In the meantime, I would suggest temporarily moving the SCC files out of the demux folders to somewhere that RA will not detect them. Then load up RA, author the SCP and reimport. I'm wondering if manually adding the SCC file will make any difference to the errors...

[nash]

Thanks, I'll try moving the SCC files out of the demux folders. What do they do by the way?

[ShaneZ]

Well, I have been adding in the .scc files for quite some time and I assure you they are still there. I don't actually use CC so I have no idea if that makes a visible difference in the movie. I only put them in because they are there :)

[Eyes`Only]

Originally posted by nash
Thanks, I'll try moving the SCC files out of the demux folders. What do they do by the way? They are closed-caption data in a form that Scenarist can understand and translate, created by code generated by a genius named McPoodle. :D

[Stress_analyst]

Aqua:

I might be confused here but…:confused:

I thought that the small cells (no need for VOBID demux) have pointers and we should try to incorporate them in the structure of the DVD. I also thought that there are two ways of doing this:

1 paste all the cell times in the ecl file and in ScenChap (for each PGC) and then drop the non chapter cells in their program in Scenarist. Then use Ifoupdate in the standard mode.

2 paste only the chapter points in the ecl file and in ScenChap (for each PGC) and then use the dummy clip(drop the in the programs in Scenarist) for constructing the dummy cells. Then use Ifoupdate in the standard mode.

3 paste all the cell times in the ecl and in ScenChap (for each PGC) and then drop the PGC in the Title folder in Scenarist. This will create a chapter and a program for each cell. Then use Ifoupdate in cell only mode. That way you get a direct cell to cell substitution. Plus according to an old post the vobid’s are in the IFO and not in the VOB (do not quote me on that, I think that this is what was said). By using cell only mode the difference of the updated IFO with the original will be only the frame count and all vobids and chapters and programs will remain unchanged.

Anyway if any of these procedures are incorrect please point it out…:devil:

BTW these are some great programs…I never thought that a complete back up could be that automated…My congratulations to all the programmers and testers.

The Analyst

[nash]

The last post by Stress_analyst was way over my head. :( Looks like I have a ways to go.

[Stress_analyst]

Sorry..nash
I didn’t mean to confuse you.:devil: Since you want to learn how to use the basics and then go to the automated tools you will probably have to edit the CCE ecl file (it’s in Trilights guide) to add the I frames of your chapters.

With ScenChap you can always copy and paste manually all the cell times in each PGC instead of the automated (chapter copying only) copy from IFO button.

Finally in Scenarist …well you must read Trilights guide very carefully to understand how you can create a Title, a PGC, a program and a cell.

The Analyst

[nash]

Well I'm giddy now that I finally got it to work by copying over the _0.vob file. I knew it was something small and simple that I was missing.

But now, I realize that I don't know how to calculate and set the bitrate so that the video is compressed enough to fit on the CD.

The available space would be:
availablespace = 4.7G - (bitrate of audio)*(length of movie) + other VTS's + subs

(anything else to consider?)

bitrate of movie = (availablespace/length of movie)

So how does the max bitrate and average bitrate factor in? And where do I set these settings?

Thanks so much!

[coona]

Hi nash,

if you want to do it in "manual" way it´s pretty easy. You have to start with extras you want to keep. After encoding them, mux them with appropriate audio and subtitle streams into "extra" Titlesets.

So 4 700 000 000 B - new "extra" titlesets - all you want to keep unchanged (titleset smaller than e.g. 100 MB, etc.) - all menus (*_0.VOB files) - all IFOs and BUPs (if you want to be presice :D). Now you can get e.g. 3 000 000 000 B for main movie.

In my experience you need 3% of your space for muxing into .VOB file (or you can count 100MB for DD audio or 130MB for DTS audio as recommends Trilight in his guide). So 3 000 000 000 * 0,97 - all audio streams - cca 3MB for each subtitle stream = space avaible for you video. Now you have the data for setting average bitrate in CCE (if you use multipas encoding, of course ;)). You can also calculate that the final result of encoding will be slightly smaller than predicted.

[nash]

Thanks a lot. I'll go home and see what I come up with.

What's the "cca 3MB for each subtitle stream" mean? What's "cca?"

[coona]

Hi nash,

sorry for that. I guess it came from Latin.

"cca" means approximately.