Specifying Field Order

[GParent]

In NTSC Video, there are 525 scan lines that comprise a FRAME and its split into two FIELDS that are each 262.5 lines:

First are all the Odd Numbered Lines for 262.5 Lines.
Second are all the Even Numbered Lines for 262.5 Lines.

ODD - EVEN ODD - EVEN ODD - EVEN
[FRAME #1] [FRAME #2] [FRAME #3]


(1) What do CCE and TMPGEnc mean by:

Upper (or Top) Field First vs.
Lower (or Botom) Field First?

(2) I have captured DV video from a camcorder (standard stuff) and its sitting in a big 12GB AVI file. I want to encode this and get it right.

What do I use for this interlaced video: Upper First (YES or NO)?

(3) Lastly, when do you pick ZIGZAG scan vs. ALTERNATE scan?

CCE hints that ZIGZAG is for film derived source and ALTERNATE is for Interlaced video source (e.g. Video Captured from a Camcorder).

Thanks,

Gary

[wmansir]

The field order tells the player what field line to display first, if you get it wrong the image will stutter.

For instance if your video was Top Field First it should be displayed:

top frame #1->Bottom frame #1->top frame #2->Bottom frame #2->....

In interlaced video each field has it's own time-code so top frame #1 is captured a moment before Bottom #1 (for TFF). If you mix it up and play Bottom #1 first then when you display Top #1 part of the image will jump back in time a split second.

For progressive material it doesn't matter because the two fields have the same time-code.

For more info on interlacing, deinterlacing, field order, ect go here: http://www.lukesvideo.com/interlacing.html Lukes's Video is a really great site and is written for beginners.


So, What kind of video to you have?

Here's an easy way to tell for any video TMPGenc can open. Open TMPGenc and load up your video. Click on the settings button and select the advanced tab. Notice what is in the field order box (that's the default, it doesn't know). To see if that is correct double click the Deinterlace filter and pick one of the Even-Odd methods from the dropdown box. Find a scene with good movement using the scroll bar and using your right arrow key play the video. If the field order is correct it will look fine, if it's wrong the video will stutter. Switch the Field Order and see how it affects the deinterlace.

It's a bit easier for mpeg2 because you can use bitrate viewer to just read the field order flag, but I don't know if there is an easier method for DV.

So now that you know what kind of video you have what do you do?

As the CCE FAQ states, ONLY check "Upper Field First" if your video is (1) interlaced and (2) Bottom Field First. I know that sounds backward, but that's what it says. If your field order is BFF you should read Q10 in the FAQ as it has more information.

3. CCE is correct here. However, if you get this wrong it won't mess up your video. CCE will just use bits less efficiently and your image won't look as good as it could, but it will play fine.

[GParent]

Please tell me if I made any errors in my interpretation of the CCE FAQ?

Also, I have read about Time Code being set to 00:00:00:00, so it works properly with DVD Maestro. What about other authoring programs and what is the symptom if you set TC to the default of 01:00:00:00? CCE should have written more on this subject and perhaps given examples of usage. Has anyone asked them why the big discrepancy in use?


Thanks,

Gary

======================================================================

If using CCE SP 2.66 or a lower version:

(1) Upper Field First = OFF (Unchecked)

(a) Video Progressive Scan, Non-Interlaced, Video.
Progressive Frames = On
ZigZag = On
Alternate Scan = Off

(b) Video is Interlaced, Field Order is Top_Field_First (tff).
Progressive Frames = Off
ZigZag = Off
Alternate Scan = On

(2) Upper Field First = ON (Checked)

(a) Video is Interlaced, Field Order is Bottom_Field_First (bff).
Progressive Frames = Off
ZigZag = Off
Alternate Scan = On

======================================================================

If using CCE SP 2.67 or higher, also CCE Basic


(1) Offset Line = 0

(a) Video Progressive Scan, Non-Interlaced, Video.
Progressive Frames = On
Block Scanning Order = ZigZag

(b) Video is Interlaced, Field Order is Top_Field_First (tff).
Progressive Frames = Off
Block Scanning Order = Alternate

(2) Offset Line = 1

(a) Video is Interlaced, Field Order is Bottom_Field_First (bff).
Progressive Frames = Off
Block Scanning Order = Alternate

[wmansir]

I believe you have it correct.

As far as the Time Code issue I don't know about authoring programs as I don't make DVDR, just SVCD. CCE does state that a time code of 00:00:00:00 has a "special meaning", but they don't say what that special meaning is. Other than the disabling of pulldown detection, which is undocumented, it's effect is a mistery.

However if you are required to use a 0 time code it should work fine as long as you aren't trying to use pulldown detection (which is only needed for hybrid material). I don't recall anyone reporting additional problems that can be traced back to that setting. And the fact that the this mention of a "special meaning" wasn't in the manual until pulldown detection was added in 2.66 backs up the theory that it is related to that function.

Perhaps someone else with more DVD authoring experience can post, or you can post this specific question in the DVD authoring forum (after searching and checking the guides of course :) )

Edit: accidently posted before I was finished.

[digitalman]

I use the 00:00:00 timecode setting when creating MPEG-2 video. I use pulldown.exe when I am finished and have not had any issues with authoring DVDs. Except for the common pulldown problem of the time being displayed incorrectly when trying to add chapters. But this has nothing to do with CCE, this is authoring programs not reading pulldown correctly.

[GParent]

I guess the Timecode thing remains a mystery to me. Rught now, I plan to always set Timecode to 00:00:00:00 for EVERYTHING except the special case described above.

(1) Can you describe the Timecode problem that has precipitated reseting it from the default 01:00:00:00?

(2) Is it a problem for only a list of DVD Authoring programs and which one do you use?

(3) What is this Pulldown program and is it used for Film Mode MPEG-2? IOW, would you need it after encoding DV Video that is interlaced?

[digitalman]

If you encode your movie at 23.976 frame rate, you need to run a 2:3 pulldown program after encoding(Go to the download section on this site and get pulldown.exe). The reason is that, the DVD standard is a frame rate of 29.97. Pulldown changes the frame info in the movie to tell the DVD player that the frame rate is 29.97 when in reality, it is only 23.976. Box Office type movies are usually 23.976, and interlaced video like documentary type DVD's or captured television broadcasts is 29.97. I use DVD Workshop and others have complained about other DVD authoring programs having the time off. It does not affect playing whatsoever in the stand alone DVD player, just where the chapter points end up. I really do not know what error you will get using 2:3 pulldown in CCE with the timecode set at 00:00:00, I never tried it.

[GParent]

Digitalman,

You really amaze me. I thought I read all there was about this subject and now you pop something new one me that I was completely clueless about. Do you automatically run Pulldown or check the encoded MPEG first. I think Bitrate Viewer can do that.

Regards 29.97 Video, I guess that's fine by itself. Right?

Also, does Pulldown refuse to process or give a warning if the video does not need post-processing?

[digitalman]

I am not sure if pulldown will give you an error if it is already 29.97. Like you said, Bitrate Viewer should tell you that. Usually I run my VOBs from the DVD through a program called DVD2AVI, so I set the frame rate to 23.976 by using the ForceFilm option in DVD2AVI. So yes I do automatically run pulldown.exe after using CCE, cause I know they are 23.976. All you do is type pulldown.exe movie1.mpv movie1pulldown.mpv. Or whatever you want to call your pulldowned movie file. Only takes a couple of minutes to run through the movie file. There are also GUI based pulldown programs out there that you could use, but I never had any issues with the pulldown.exe command line program for basic purposes.

[GParent]

Thanks, I will definitely add Pulldown to the ritual. I also found a GUI front end for Pulldown called PullDownBatchFE.