Joining double sided DVDs

[GParent]

GOODFELLAS on a two-sided DVD, each with single layer:

It was made when dual layer DVDs were not generally available. Its also called a FLIPPER DISC, where Side 1 is half the movie and Side 2 is the rest of the movie. Yes, you have to manually flip the disc over. In addition, you have to rip both sides as two separate and distinct movies and find a way to join them together.

I found a JOINING guide that made good use of VOBEDIT.

http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/joinclip.html

My problem was in knitting the combined VOBs together and rebuilding the control files. Essentially, you have two DVD Rips and while you can combine VOBs, the other files are not really relevant after the join. You have to rebuild those files and this is where things went off track for me.

After some messing around, I got a complete movie that works great, except, the entirety of Side 2 is one big Chapter 21. I can start with from the first frame of the movie hitting NEXT => Chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ..... 20, 21 and the Chapter stops cease after the first frame of the first Chapter on what used to be Side 2.

Therefore, joining works but you have to probably do more to get all the Chapters working together.

Finally, I admit that I need to redo this procedure and verify I followed all the steps. Given the lack of interest in this sort of procedure, I haven't found very much to help.

Any Comments or Guides?

Gary

[Ollie W. Holmes]

The technique has been covered before in 2 Movies on one DVD with IfoEdit:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50276

Assuming that the two titlesets you have can be fit onto one dvd. Here are some more tidbits that the cited thread does not cover. When I do this stuff, as part of the build process, I always have a VIDEO_TS.IFO file for each title (this comes free with IFOEDIT). When the VIDEO_TS.IFO file is created for both titles, whether you do it manually or with DVDToolBox, double check that all the relevant entries of the combo file match the ones in the individual ones. Also, in spite of all your good efforts, you still may have problems burning the new VIDEO_TS.IFO, VTS_01_0.IFO, VTS_02_0.IFO etc. files with Prassi Primo, as it may get upset with some pointer or count field in one of these files. Load the (combo) VIDEO_TS.IFO file into InstantCopy and let it fix these errors by generating a pdi fileset that can be burned. This may seem like brute force, but until we get a "playability/burning" integrity checker that we can run on a PC, roadblocks like this will always come up. Finally, the first time you attempt this process, do it with a dvd+rw or dvd-rw disc, as the chances are 50% that you will get a coaster.

[svcdentro]

I own goodfellas and tried 3 times following the vobedit method unseccesfully, could you tell me exactly how to do this joining???

Thank you!!

By the way the DVD plays until the first part, getting vts sectors marks until chapoter 19 but it's buggy in the commands and functions...And when i create ifos it has all chapters but looses the subtitles and is malfunctioning and jumping, any ideas...

[GParent]

I should have written down the exact steps but start here:

http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/joinclip.html

The second part is joining sides. After your done, you should have 8 VOBs with the 4th and the 8th ones being less than 1GB in length.

VTS_01_1.VOB
VTS_01_2.VOB
VTS_01_3.VOB
VTS_01_4.VOB
VTS_01_5.VOB
VTS_01_6.VOB
VTS_01_7.VOB
VTS_01_8.VOB

At this point I deleted every file that was not a .VOB file. IFOs BUPs, etc, and just kept the 8 .VOBs. Then I loaded IFOEDIT and clicked on CREATE IFOs. Stick with the defaults and enter source of first VOB, the rest will be found. Then pick a new destination directory.

At this point, I reloaded VOBEDIt and did a Restream of the VObs. I did this by loading the IFO that was just created. Just go to any guide on restreaming or if you want me to redo it and give you info, please inform me.

In summary, the magic to joining is:

(1)Use VOBEDIT to link from the last VOB in the first side to the first VOB on the second side.

(2) Rename the VOBs to be consistent.

(3) Use IFOEdit to rebuild the IFOs.

(4) Use IFOEDIT Again to restream the video and re-build all the VOBs so that only the 8th of the VOBs is less than 1GB in length.


If you next use a One Click (eg. Instant Copy) you will have your DVD.

[Stabmaster-Arson]

What about the ac3 delay, how is it handled? One side has -84 delay, one has -99 milliseconds delay. how do I deal with this? (I just ripped the dvd and I am about to start the process)

[GParent]

Let me begin by saying that I played Goodfellas, using Power DVD, from IFOEDIT's re-streamed VOBs. I went to Chapter 37 where Henry is sitting on the couch and talking to the Federal Agent in his office. His voice is perfectly in sync with the movement of his mouth. Is that enough to prove there is no audio sync problem?

______________________________________________________________________

After the IFOEDIT Re-Stream, I took the Instant Copy route and it worked but I wanted to get better quality so I went the long route:

(1) I Ran Chapter Extractor on VOBs with output for DVD Maestro.

(2) I Ran DVD2AVI Version 1.77.3:

Took defaults and Demuxed Audio Channel Track 1.
RGB > YUB, YUB > PC, etc.
Saved Project. This gave me the following AC3 file name:

GOODFELLAS AC3 T01 3_2ch 384Kbps DELAY -83ms

(3) I Ran VFAPI Version 1.05 as input to CCE.

(4) I Ran CCE Version 2.67.00.10:

....(a) VBR One Pass:

......Q=40, Min=0, Max=9800,
......DCT = 9, Progressive Scan, Filter Off, Quality = 15,
......N = 3, N/M = 4, Luma = 16-235, Offset = 1.

.....(b) VBR Multi-Pass:

......VBR Passes = 3; The VAF File from above is input to this phase,
......Avg = 3800, Min = 0, Max = 7500,
......DCT = 9, Progressive Scan, Filter Off, Quality = 15,
......N = 3, N/M = 4, Luma = 16-235, Offset = 1.

(5) I Ran DVD Maestro Version 2.9 Build 2915a:

.....(a) Imported the assets of thr M2V and AC3 files.

.....(b) Dragged M2V and AC3 into their time lines.

.....(c) Imported Chapters from Step (1) above.

.....(d) Created Sync on Audio to movie track.

.....(e) Maestro replaced the AC3 with converted audio track.

.....(f) Locked both Video and Audio Asset Tracks.

.....(g) Clicked on Connections Tab.

.....(h) Dragged Chapter 1 pointer to First Play.

.....(i) No Menu.

.....(j) Compiled.

.....(k) I Played using Power DVD.

.....(l) I Have not burned DVD yet.


NOTE: I am still experimenting. Right now I did another run and changed the MAX Bitrate from 7500 to 8000. I am also going to play with a multipass CBR trial version.

To Do List:

(1) I want to make a New Menu with Links to All the Chapters.

(2) I will try Multi-pass CBR as some people are claiming that they are getting better quality using the CBR version of DVD2ONE vs. the new VBR DVD2ONE. Some people swearing that CBR is better for long movies. I have no idea if this is true but am willing to try.

(3) I determined that DCT = 10 is bad for this project so I opted for DCT = 9. CCE says that you can sometimes get better quailty with DCT = 8, on lower bitrates. I will experiment with this.

I am a novice at this and its all a learning curve for me. Bottom Line: I'd be up a tree without this forum and appreciate any advice from the experts on this forum.

[Stabmaster-Arson]

Would there be an easier way f I did not care about chapters at all? I just want one long Vob that will play all the way through, so i can demux, cce the video, and use ifoedit author. If I join the vobs, then yank out the audio, wont I have to somehow set the ac3 delay? or is it stored in the ac3 file?

[GParent]

I've never heard of one long VOB. By convention, they are as big as 1GB and you'll get 8 VOBs with Goodfellas after the processing.

If you just follow the join guide link in my first reply to you, using VBOEDIT, you'll have to delete the IFO and BUP files and leave just the 8 VOBs and bring up IFOEDIT, the output of that re-build should be enough to give you something playable, but it will not be perfect. Its very, very easy!

You can even do a transcode after the re-build. Some transcoders failed, like DVD Shrink but Instant Copy and DVD2ONE both worked. But the chapters did not link between the first and last sides.

If you want everything to work, then do the last Re-stream pass with IFOEDIT to re-build the VOBs, its up to you.

I have now finalized a re-mpeg using CCE with two runs, the second is a 5 pass VBR with avg bitrate at 3800 and a range of 0 to 8000 for bitrate. I ended up with a VIDEO_TS folder that was 12MB shy of 4,700,000,000 bytes. No bad, huh?

[svcdentro]

Hi how do i RESTREAM in IFOEDIT?
I didn't find any guide in all the forum!!!!!!

[GParent]

I didn't really use a Guide I did some experimenting and came up with the following method.

I found a Guide that is close but I used a few different options:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/ifoedit-menustripping.htm

Look at what's in STEP 3 as a reference of the VOB Extras screen, but follow the text below, which difers from the Guide:

(a) Start Up IFOEDIT 0.95.
(b) Open VTS_01_0.IFO (IFO of Title Goodfellas).
(c) Click On VOB Extras Button at Bottom and VOB EXTRAS OPTIONS comes up.
(d) UN-CHECK THESE OFF: Re-Mux, Strip VobIDs, Split to 2 DVDs, Rebuild PTS, Remove IIvu/Angle
(e) CHECK THE FOLLOWING ON:
...Strip Stream's
...Correct Vob-Unit
...Correct Original IFO Files
...Create New Files
...Remove P-UOPs
...Adjust VOB Unit Pointers
...Adjust Audio SubPict Pointers
(f) Set Destination Directory (Make sure its empty on start).
(g) Click on OK.
(h) The Stream List comes up.
(i) Make sure CORRECT IFO TABLES is checked ON.
(j) I left both Audio and Subpicture checked. If I did this again, I might uncheck Subpicture 1. The only reason I kept it was that I once read that Subpicture may be needed by some authoring programs.
(k) Click STRIP IT.
(l) Have a dinner, read a book, do something else for a while.
(m) When done, you should have a complete set of 8 VOBs.
(n) You can now watch them on a player from your hard drive. I use Power DVD and the N key lets me go to the Next Chapter.
(o) Use DVD Shrink 2.3, its free for fitting the 8 VOBS onto a DVD!

[svcdentro]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, IT REALLY WORKED GREAT!
I WANTED TO FINISH THIS DVD 10 DAYS AGO AND NOW I'VE DONE IT BECAUSE OF YOU!
FINALLY I MUST FIND THE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THE SUBS INSIDE THE DVD BECAUSE I NEED THEM AND IT ONLY RECOGNIZES THE FIRST STREAM SO I THINK I HAVE SOME WORK TO DO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH AGAIN!!!

[svcdentro]

There's only one thing i'd change, i've played all the movie and it has the trailers and few extras inside, i mean, it's a two sided disc and when the first side is finished the trailer comes in and the warning advises appear, and the same when the second part finishes, so i think that if you want the entire movie without cuts you must rip it first with dvd2svcd (main movie only) and then proceed with this guide, because if you don't the movie will have the extras between the first and second part, good luck!

[GParent]

Excellent point and I apologize for not mentioning the Decrypting part, that precedes the Join. From the inital Decrypter run on Sides One and Two, I did only the movies and dumped the excess baggage. So the merging of VOBs was strictly the joining of two movies and not their menus, etc.

[Stabmaster-Arson]

I too, used stream processing in ifo mode to rip only the movie and not extras. I Joined them as per gthe guide form that link. Then I went to create the new ifos and at the end IFoedit crashed and the vobfiles it created went away.

I duno if i did it right. I opened vob1, then i opened vob 2, etc al the way until i ooen them all. then i went create IFO. SI this method correct?

[GParent]

I used all the latest version of software. By the higher standards of PC around here, I have a modest 1.4GHz Celeron and 512MB memory with Windows XP Professional SP1 applied.

I have never had a crash with IFOEDIT, VOBEDIT, DVD2AVI, et al.

You might check revs.

[Stabmaster-Arson]

the way i opened each vob separately one at a time, then went to create ifo, is that at least the correct method?

Ill also try updating ifoedit. Thx for reply.

[GParent]

Here is the roadmap I used, to the best of my memory. Unfortunately I didn't keep notes. :(

(1) Rip DVD Side A to directory GOODFELLAS_SIDEA
(2) Rip DVD Side B to directory GOODFELLAS_SIDEB

(3) Rename VOBs in GOODFELLAS_SIDEB B to:

VTS_01_001.VOB
VTS_01_002.VOB
VTS_01_003.VOB
VTS_01_004.VOB

(4) Go to the following web site and study the JOIN tutorial (In the 2nd half of the Guide). In GOODFELLAS_SIDEB directory, Open VTS_01_001.VOB with VOBEDIT and Click on EDIT from menu, then then JOIN CLIPS.

http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/joinclip.html

(5) In the dialog box, Enter 3 for FIRST VOBID and Click OK, Exit VOBEDIT. The Join is Done.

(6) Rename the GOODFELLAS_SIDEB VOBs to the following:

VTS_01_5.VOB
VTS_01_6.VOB
VTS_01_7.VOB
VTS_01_8.VOB

(7) Copy ***ONLY*** the renamed VOBs from GOODFELLAS_SIDEB directory into GOODFELLAS_SIDEA directory, and leave all the other files alone.

(8) You now will have 8 VOBs in GOODFELLAS_SIDEA:

VTS_01_1.VOB
VTS_01_2.VOB
VTS_01_3.VOB
VTS_01_4.VOB
VTS_01_5.VOB
VTS_01_6.VOB
VTS_01_7.VOB
VTS_01_8.VOB

*** END OF JOIN ***

You have to do this join to have a chance at getting the rest to work.

Did the join work as described? If it dis, where are you specifically having a problem?

(a) Regen of IFO Files?

(b) Regen of VOB Files?

(c) Beyond that?

[nemesi]

GParent,
I used your method to join a previously cutted dvd, it was a Star trek one. I had a problem with subtitles, they changed their aspect (color and font), this happened avery time I try to regenerate ifo files for the titleset. So i tried another solution given by katjarella in this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50276

I use Ifoedit to strip streams and choose what I want to keep of any dvd, then move all the titleset I want to keep in one directory (renaming where necessary, the result is made of more titleset) and use a Post Command in any titleset ((CallSS_VMGM) Call VideoManager PGC) to link the nexttitleset to play.


EDITED - Just seen on this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18817 the table of subtitle colors and how to change them, so now I have two functioning methods to join dvds....

[GParent]

Hi Nemesi,

I was only addressing Goodfellas and I didn't care about subtitles. I do understand the problem and I think its posible to strip the subs out using a special program, perhaps SubRipper, and then add it back when reauthoring using Maesto, for example.

The first of those links you referenced is one that I tried but failed to work for me. I then went back and used the original Join Guide and was able to get it correct and subsequently improvise with IFOEDIT. If you got Star Trek to function correctly then I applaud your effort. Thanks for the second link, it looks good.

[surreal120]

GParent, first thanks for all your great work on this! It's really nice to see someone take so much time to write detailed responses like yours.

I too am just starting out with this and am about to try your guide, but I have a quick question/suggestion. Perhaps some more expert members out there could correct me on this, but I'm pretty sure it's okay to have a VOB other than the last one that is less than 1GB.

This might make re-streaming unnecessary, especially if you're demuxing everything with DVD2AVI to be re-authored anyway. I don't know if re-streaming fixes up some other important stuff though. Have you ever tried it without this step?

[influenza]

I've seen more then enough dvds with a vob less then 1 GB other then being the last one. Since they all play just fine that should not ne any problem.

[GParent]

I was thinking the same thing. I believ you can pick a different VOB size as the max. Maybe the DVD Demystified Guide says something about the standards. Regards the software to do it, I believe that IFOEdit (the most useful tool for DVDs) can accept lower than 1GB as the max VOB size for re-streaming. As an experiment, I will remember to try that and see if it works. Glad you mentioned it, I had almost forgotten to ask the question myself.

[surreal120]

Okay, I tried your method both with and without re-streaming. In both cases, I got a file folder with the whole movie in one VTS and all the chapters correct, audio in sync, etc.

However, I'm having a problem now that I thought you (or someone else) out there could help with. I made an image of the file folder with ImgTools, mounted it, and started the DIF4U->ReAuthorist->DC4U process, keeping everything (since everything but main movie and main audio track had already been stripped out). Authored using Scenarist.

Now, even though everything was in sync before, the audio goes out of sync in the CCE enccoded version right at the point where the 2nd half of the movie ("Side B") starts. Reauthorist also has the wrong chapter points set for this half. I've done all this twice, trying slight variations, with and without re-streaming, but got the same result.

Did you ever come across this? Is there something I need to do to sync up the audio for the second half of the movie? What I don't get is that it WAS in sync before starting up the Big3 + Scenarist, and I have done many 1 disc movies with those progs before so I know they've worked for me in the past.

[GParent]

Again, I have only tried Goodfellas and I know it works, not that I didn't have a few mis-fires myself. <g>

Ok, I wish I had another dual sided movie to work on a generic, one size fits all, Guide. I only have Goodfellas, a great movie!

I hard coded VOB-ID of 3 into my example for Goodefellas because I wanted to make it easy for others who join Goodfellas. For another movie, you have to dope out what is ITS UNIQUE VOB-ID. To do this for another movie, you have to go back to the Join Guide:

***** THE FOLLOWING IS AN EXAMPLE FOR A GENERIC MOVIE, IT DIFFERS FOR EACH MOVIE *****

http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/joinclip.html

" We want to get it to one side. First you need the check out, which is the last VOB-ID on side A.

So load VTS_01_4.VOB of side A into VobEdit, and scroll down to the last Navigation Pack. The last VOB-ID in that case is VOB-ID Nr: 2
Okay, so the file VTS_01_1.VOB of side B must start with VOB-ID: 3

First rename the files of side B to the following order:
VTS_01_001.VOB
VTS_01_002.VOB
VTS_01_003.VOB

2. Open the first VOB file (VTS_01_001.VOB) with VobEdit, and choose the Menu: 'Edit -> Join Clips':

A filedialog will apear, where you have to specify a destination directory for the final VOB file-set. You better choose a new empty directory for that.
A second dialog will pop up, where you have to specify a starting VOB-ID. This time we are using Nr: 3 : "

*************************************************************

The above is generic example of a movie, and yours is probably different. For your movie, you have to go to the folder that contains the last VOB for Side A. You have to find the last NAVAGATION PACK, using VOBEDIT, and check the VOB Number. In the case of Goodfellas, it was VOB-ID = 2. Therefore, I made the first VOB, in Side B of Goodfellas, to have a VOB-ID of 3. Your VOB-ID may be different, if its not Goodfellas. This is the only really tough part of the work. It took me a while scrolling down using VOBEDIT the first time.

Remember to first decrypt each side as though it were a different movie. You only rename VOBs in Side B directory. Then you use VOBEDIT to change the VOB-ID. Then rename all the VOBs on Side B directory so they follow the last VOB in Side A.

If Side A has VTS_01_4.VOB as the last VOB name, then you make VTS_01_5.VOB the name for the first VOB on Side B, and keep incrementing by one until you rename the last VOB on Side B. When done, simply copy all the renamed VOBs from Side B in Side A directory. Now, they should go from 1 - N, where N is the ordinal of the VOB in sequence.

Now you should be ready for Rebuilding IFO files. When Done with that, then you will restream. So, its two executions of IFOEDIT. Also, you will need to think about Chapters, Subtitles, and Audio. If there is any special handling, you will need to find a way to handle it.

Regards, out of sync, someone mentioned that a second side could have been authored with different configurations. Audio Delay could be different, for example. I was lucky to not have that problem.