Deinterlacing Problem

[brashquido]

Hi All,

Following the new guide for the big three (http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/ra-guide.htm), I editied my AVS scripts for each interlaced VTS and added the lines;

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\decomb.dll")
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)

However, when it came time to encoding CCE gave me an error about saying the image size was outside the legitimate bounds of 720x576 and was set to 938x56. I opened each elc set to be deinterlaced and saw that the res was incorrectly set to 938x768, so I manually changed it to 720x576 which didn't do anything to after reloading DoCCE4U.

Thinking back now, I think I may have my scripts like this;

import("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\addaudio.avs")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\mpeg2dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\decomb.dll")
Mpeg2Source("VTS__01_P01.4~3_1.d2v")
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)
AddAudio()
ConvertToYUY2()


instead of this;

import("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\addaudio.avs")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\decomb.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DoItFast4U\new.avs\mpeg2dec3.dll")
Mpeg2Source("VTS__01_P01.4~3_1.d2v")
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)
AddAudio()
ConvertToYUY2()

Does it matter in what order you load the plug-ins?


From memory (as I'm at work now and can't check) my software versions are;

DoItFast4U = 1.1.1.0
ReAuthorist = 0.6.3
DoCCE4U = 1.0.1.4
CCE SP = 2.66.01.07
EclCCE = 1.4c

[Eyes`Only]

Hmm let me try to explain.

It matters in a way that only a coder could appreciate. Each plugin that you add basically adds 'functions' to avisynth. For instance, you have to load the mpeg2dec3.dll plugin because it supports the Mpeg2Source function. If you were to try to use the Mpeg2Source function without loading the mpeg2dec3 plugin, you would get an error that states that there is no Mpeg2Source function defined.

The same with the decomb.dll plugin. If you were to use Telecide() or Decimate or any other decomb-related function, it would error if you hadn't loaded the decomb plugin first.

You didn't state what version of avisynth you are using. The error you are getting is something that happens when the avs script isn't recognized in some way. Run your .avs thru Windows Media Player (WMP) and it should give you insight into what is wrong.

[brashquido]

Just like me to forget to list the version of probably the most important software of the lot in relation to my problem :rolleyes: .

I honestly can't remember the version, I'll have a look at lunchtime and get back. Thanks for the help :) .

[brashquido]

I had Avisynth version 2.08, which according to the guide should've worked with that addtional script :confused: . Anyway, I have upgraded to 2.51 and now that I know which VTSes are interlaced, I've set DoItFast4U to deinterlace them. Hopefully this should circumvent my craphola AVS editing skills ;) .

[Eyes`Only]

With avisynth 2.08, you were using the wrong decomb and mpeg2dec3 plugins. You need the ones in the doitfast4u folder, not the new.avs folder.

[brashquido]

Amazing what you can find when you know what you're looking for :p ! Thanks Eyes :) .

[Grover]

This is my "LAZY-MAN's" approach to deinterlacing with PAL.

(feel free to pick holes in it. I'm looking for "the catch" myself)

Stage 1 is that I run DIF4U as normal in auto-detect mode and then open the .avs files in Windows media player. Any that are interlaced stand out like dogs b*lls right away and I note those down for stage 2. Most times its the extras and anything else in 4:3. But not always.

Stage 2 involves deleting ALL the files DIF4U created, starting DIF4U up again and this time selecting deinterlace for the ones that were noted down in stage 1. Run DIF4U.

Then you just finish your project in the normal way, not having to worry about correcting for any interlaced video.

(I'm not claiming it as perfect, but it has worked perfectly for me so far (touch wood) on the 5-6 DVD's I've done this way.)

For me, I would rather run DIF4U twice (only takes 15-20 minutes each time) and use that time to go off and do something else, rather than spend the same amount of time editing scripts and adjusting settings in DoCCE4U.

Also, it makes sense to me to fix the interlacing issue early on in the project to avoid complications down the track.

Mother always said - An ounce of PREVENTION is worth a pound of CURE.

[brashquido]

Sounds good to me :). Couldn't you use something like DVDToolbox to analyze the VOBs instead of having to run DoItFast4U twice?

[Grover]

Sounds like plan. I'll try DVDToolbox tonight.

[waldok]

Grover, you are a wise man :p
I second your opinion. Better launch DIF4U twice than getting headaches in AVS scripts.:)

Waldok:cool:

[Fmazzanti]

Oh man... I hate interlaced material. It's really a pint in the thinking muscle, and I'm fed up of messing around with options in CCE.
Your method sounds good... but I don't think it's going to work always. You know, tff and bff interlaced material use different options in CCE, and these are not set in the .avs files, so despite you run DIF4U twice, you may still encounter problems.
Who in the world had the great idea of inventing interlace?

[Grover]

Here's a mini-guide work around the INTERLACED VIDEO issue.

This assumes that the interlaced video you have is just the EXTRAS material of your DVD (ie - NOT the main movie).

Part 1 - Run your main movie VTS through DIF4U. Leave everything else unchecked. When it's finished, this will give you the normal VIDEO_TS folder containing the DVD structure and the uncoded extras .vobs. And the other folder VTS_0x with your uncoded main movie .vobs etc for CCE encoding.

Part 2 - Next step is to use a "one-click" program such as DVDShrink or Instant Copy to compress/encode your extras and anything else that's NOT the main movie. These programs seem to have no issues with interlaced video (not in the 40 or so DVD's I've done before discovering the DIF4U method) In fact I had never heard of deinterlacing before moving one forum down on the Doom9 list. I assume it's because they use some kind of "pretend" encoding system that I'm sure shreds the video stream to pieces in five different ways. Hence the quick processing times and lower quality results.

Part 3 - Once your "one-clicker" has finished encoding your extras, you just cut-n-paste these encoded extras .vobs back into your final VIDEO_TS folder the DIF4U created, replacing the original uncoded ones.

Now you have your DVD's final VIDEO_TS folder (including encoded extras) ready and waiting for the main movie.

Part 4 - Use DVDCalc to work out your CCE bitrate for main movie encoding and then process it using RA, DoCCE4U, Scenarist etc in the normal way.

Then copy-paste the encoded main movie .vobs back into the final VIDEO_TS folder as per normal, run IfoUpdate on ALL VTS's and it's done !!!

Sure, you don't get the superior lower bitrate quality of using CCE to encode these extras, but lets face it, they ARE the extras and many people only watch them once and that's it. And for some DVD's with lots of extras, they can take nearly as long to encode as the main movie, by the time you run 5 passes over ~2.5GB of extras.

Another advantage is the time saving. It only takes 30 minutes to do extras using DVDShrink or if you want better quality, use IC7 that takes about an hour (depending on how big your extras are).

I know this hybrid method will not appeal to many here who want the best quality for everything from the studio and dolby logos, the movie and all four trailers. I've only used it a couple of times where I wanted to keep the whole DVD intact but didn't care about the extras too much and one of them had 2.7GB of extras which would have taken 6-7 hours to encode with CCE, versus 30 minutes with DVDShrink)

If you have problems with INTERLACING and aren't overly fussed about the extras, AND want to save some time, then give it a try.

Cheers...

[Fmazzanti]

@Grover,
I tried this method a couple of months ago, when I was doing backups the CCE+IfoEdit way. And I abandoned it. Why? Just because of quality issues, let me explain it. Contrarily to what it has been said here many times, I think DVD projects processed by CCE at bitrates lower than 2500 do not render good quality. At least in PAL projects. I0m fed up of encoding extras with DoCCE and 5 passes at 2000 to 2500 and I can really see small artifacts in fast moving scenes. That said, I believe you agree that CCE is better than IC and any other transcoding program.
Therefore, if I don't like the CCE result very much at low bitrates of 2500 or so, you can imagine what I think about IC results at the same file size.
STill, this is a question of personal taste, and I'm glad you find this solution alright for you. That means you're satisfied with it and that you've already solved your problem. Unfortunately that's not my case, I'm still looking for THE METHOD to a high quality backup. I must admit, though, that the DIF4U+DoCCE4U+RA is the closest thing i've seen so far.

[waldok]

Fmazzanti,

I usually do what Grover advise here for extras, except when there are long and interesting extras (like in the Exorcist region 1 a very long and interesting documentary). I have never been disturbed by small artefacts I could sometimes notice in trailers or other such extras, since I usually only watch them once (but you are right, there are some artefacts if you look carefully).
I've tried many ways for interlaced material, and finally I use DVDshrink because it is fast enough for this. But if you can spend more time on encoding extras, I would advise you to try Canopus Procoder (if you haven't already tried it) : it gives great results on interlaced material at SVCD-like bitrates (I used it on my old 8mm analog family videos, on DV sources too, and the results are amazing, superior to CCE if you'll ask me). Have a look at the DV forum here, you'll find some other enthusiastic people about it.
(Sorry if this all an already well-known story for you ;)


Waldok:cool:

[Grover]

Hi Fmazzanti,
I believe you agree that CCE is better than IC and any other transcoding program.
By no means suggesting that these one-click extras are good quality. In fact they are usually "watchable". And they don't compare at all to CCE encoded extras at 2000 bitrate. .I think DVD projects processed by CCE at bitrates lower than 2500 do not render good quality. At least in PAL projects. I0m fed up of encoding extras with DoCCE and 5 passes at 2000 to 2500 and I can really see small artifacts in fast moving scenes Let's not forget what we're all trying to do here. ie - cram +7GB of data into 4.37GB of space. There is going to be quality loss and artifacts somehwere in the equation - full stop. Like you said, it's up to each person to decide what works for them and how much time they want to spend to achieve the results.

For me, unless the extras are particulary good, I will only watch them once. And many are simply "talking heads" type interviews with people sitting in a studio and it's the audio that matters. Not really in need of the full CCE treatment to get one-time-watching value from them.

I'm not trying to preach anything or convince anyone. Just suggesting an alternative to people who have issues with interlacing of the extras and would like a workaround they might find works for them.

For total project quality, DIF4U -> -> -> Scenarist is still the best we have for now.

Cheers...