Anyone heard of superbit DVD releases? opinions?

[killingspree]

i've just seen that Gladiator has been released as a so called superbit DVD on play.com:
http://www.playserver4.com/play247.asp?page=title&r=R2&title=114982

here's a quote of what 'superbit' is:

The Superbit titles utilize a special high bit rate digital transfer process which optimizes video quality while offering a choice of both DTS and 5.1 Dolby Digital audio. All Superbit DVDs start with High Definition masters. The Superbit Collection will set a new benchmark in high resolution DVD image and sound, creating the ultimate in home entertainment. By reallocating data normally used for value-added content, Superbit DVDs can be encoded at double their normal bit rate while maintaining full compatibility with the DVD-Video format. The result is picture quality that provides outstanding detail. Superbit DVDs play on all DVD players. Currently DVDs are encoded to optimize space for the feature plus added value and audio streams. The Suberbit collection reallocates and converts the physical space ordinarily devoted to added value to higher bit rate video transfer and both Dolby Digital 5.1 & DTS audio

So now i'm wondering: is it worth it? i mean the DVD isn't really expensive, so do you think the quality is significantly better. A friend of mine has the 2 DVD collectors addition that also contains DTS and DD and all extra features are also allocated on the second DVD.

edit: here's the official homepage: www.superbitdvd.com - it seems to be a Columbia Tristar proprietary feature.

thanks for your input
steVe

[Slogra]

I've got Snatch and Desperado in Superbit, which both look extremely good. The non-SB dutch Snatch release was pathetic so that why i bought Snatch sb. All other releases of Desperado are crappy, so the sb version was the way to go.

But I don't think the SB version of Gladiator will be much better than the normal release, cause the normal version is already very good quality with a nice high bitrate and DTS sound. So there's not much to improve.
I got the normal version of Gladiator and i've ordered the SB version too. So i'll be able to compare them soon (hopefully tomorrow). I'll post some screenshots then.

btw i'm talking about the R2 versions here
And do you know you've got a post count of 666? :devil:

[Acaila]

I also bought the SB version of Gladiator, it's my first SB so far so I can't tell you of past experiences. I mainly ordered this version of Gladiator because it was cheaper than the original, that it's higher quality as well is just a bonus :).

It should arive the coming week or so, I can't wait.

[killingspree]

well at play.com the sb release is 9.99 and the collectors edition (2 DVDs) is 8.99 so there is a price difference, but not really that significant. I guess I'll have to decide what is worth more, a DVD of extras or a bit of extra quality.
Oh btw... play.com has a bargain selling all sb DVs for just 9.99 pounds (damn where did my pound sign go :)
oh and yes i'm also talking about R2 here (:

666 postcount... well it would fit to me from time to time :devil: but I passed it once and for all already.

another thing: how's the desperado sb release? decent quality? dafinitely a movie that would be worth buying sometime.

steVe

edit: a few screenshots of the sb release would be great. i can borrow the collectors edition from my neighbour to compare (.

[Slogra]

Well, Gladiator has been sent. So i will have it tomorrow. I hope i won't be dissapointed.

Desperado SB is fabulous. You won't find many DVD's with a picture quality like this one. The picture looks sharp and it gives a feeling of depth, which makes you believe that you're really there. Also the DTS sound is crystal clear and you can hear a lot of detail in it. I hope you've got a DTS receiver, cause the Dolby Digital sound is only in 2 channels and thus sounds like crap (i'm not sure but maybe there are other versions floating around with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound).

[Atamido]

The idea behind SuperBit makes a lot of sense. And while I have never directly compared the normal and SB versions of a video, I can understand that, with a good codec, if you alot it more bits/pixel, then you are going to have a better picture.

I would be inclined to say to purchase the SB version, but that is based solely on theory, not any personal experience.

[Slogra]

Ok, i got Gladiator SB now. My first impressions is that it's not much better than the normal release. In fact, they look VERY similar. Like i said before the normal release is already very good quality, so there isn't much room for improvement with this movie.

I'll post some screenshots later.

[Slogra]

Ok, i compared both Gladiator versions. Both versions look just as good. The SB version seems to have very slightly less ringing than the normal version. But i could only see it when i zoomed 4x.

I tried to make jpg screenshots but the very slight difference will be gone after compression... so those were useless.

I can mail you a png screenshot if you want. It's about 1MB.

[killingspree]

thanks a lot, I guess I get the picture (:
i don't think it's necessary for you to mail the screenies. thanks for the offer though.
also thanks for you time

steVe

[Atamido]

I would be interested in sets of PNGs comparing the two. If you would email them to me at:

paul at msn dot com

and include "doom9" in the subject line.

[ppera2]

This 'Suberbit' stuff is actually not something special and new.
I seen before 2 years already some titles with high bitrate and excellent pic.

For example Ben Hur, where movie itself is over 10 GB. Only bad thing is that you need to flip disk at half of the movie

[Atamido]

Well, in the PNGs from Slogra, I can see that the sb pictures are just a hair less blurry on things like the ground, where details tend to be blurred a bit. The flags around the stadium in the distance also looked just ever so slightly more clear. All other objects, and the smoke, seemed to have the same amount of clarity.

I looked at them in the original resolution using a 21"CRT@1600x1200. I did this with a blind test where I couldn't tell what picture I was looking at.

Chances are you aren't going to be able to tell the difference unless you have an ultra sharp display like a LCD/Plasma. There is just to much blur on normal TV's. Also, looking at a screen shot and a moving picture are two different things. I would really like to see both movies shown next to each other.

[Slogra]

It might be interesting to know that the size of the VOBs of the standard Gladiator is 6.51GB. The size of Gladiator SB VOBs is 7.02GB.
I also found it interesting that the SB png is bigger than the other one.

[Acaila]

I also found it interesting that the SB png is bigger than the other one.More detail bigger size, nothing surprising about that.

Can you tell me what the video bitrates are for the original and SB version?

[waldok]

I don't approve superbit. If you're into backuping your DVDs, you will notice there is very often unused space on a 9.4 GB dual layer DVD. So I'm wondering why there would be any need for superbit stuff when the editors could as well encode their movies so that they fill "regular" DVDs and get excellent quality this way.
Very often, poor quality or noticeable defects in the DVDs we buy are due to bad encoding, and not necessarily due to a lack of space on the disk (unused space seems to prove it). I strongly believe studios have all the hardware and software to produce extremely high quality contents that will fit on a dual layer DVD with all extras and stuff. The argument of removing the extras to make good use of the whole 9.4GB space is wrong I think. I see this like for example saying :"OK I've got 9.4GB for my movie only, so I'll use the highest CBR I can, so I can encode quickly, in a simple (and dumb) process. Plus it's cheaper to produce since the encoding is much faster than with multipass VBR (saves time and money) and with some good marketing effort, I'll sell thousands."
Honestly I don't know if these superbit DVDs are CBR or not, but I sure think this is another major "marketing trick" to give another commercial life to some old titles that don't sell too well anymore.

No superbit for me thanks (plus I like the extras on a DVD)

Waldok:cool:

[ppera2]

Waldok, I agree with you in most of last post. But you should know that practically all Mpeg2 video is actually VBR. And VBR encoding can be done also fast in single pass.

[Slogra]

There is no reason not to like SB, unless you like exra's. SB dvds are encoded in very high quality due to highest bitrate possible, which is 9.8Mb and good transfers, so tell me what's wrong with that??? :sly: And yes, i believe they are VBR with a very high minimum bitrate.

But yes, the Gladiator SB DVD is kinda useless. Cause the orignal Gladiator DVD has also a high bitrate of 9.8Mb. I think the SB edition has a higher minimum bitrate which causes the VOBs to be slightly bigger and slighty better quality...

[waldok]

@ppera2

Sure right, 1pass VBR is also an easy and cheap way to go for editors. It won't "hold" the encoders for a long time (thus they can produce more DVDs in a short amount of time) and it sure won't give the best possible quality either.

@slogra
You know, there is a difference for me between "knowing" that quality is better due to higher bitrate and possible mathematical reasons and "seing" quality improvements on screen. I mean, I did some experiments a few years ago on encoding to 15mbits/s MPEG2 (I think it's the maximum bitrate allowed by MPEG2 spec, correct me if I'm wrong). I also did the same very difficult sequences (CCITT test sequences for those who know what I'm talking about) at 8 mbits/s. Honestly , I couldn't tell the difference. Oh yes, I knew the first one was "better" but what ? I didn't care at all since it was not "visible".

Same goes for superbit. If a movie is correctly encoded at VBR, with enough passes, it generally doesn't need to reach the 9.8mbits/s. What is wrong with Superbit ? It's a pure marketing trick. I'll accept the idea od Superbit the day editors will first use all the available space on a regular DVD9, thus improving their movie encoding and say "guys, we can "visibly" improve quality. According to me (as I said before), you can get extremely high quality on a standard DVD9 (except maybe for very long movies or very very difficult scenes), and you do not need to get rid of all the extras for that.
One question by the way, is the superbit DVD "full" ? Or is there still room on it for let's say...some extras maybe ? :p

Lastly, I'd like to know ie every "superbit fan" out there has a high quality TV that will allow them to notice the differences (if any).

Waldok:cool:

[killingspree]

One question by the way, is the superbit DVD "full" ? Or is there still room on it for let's say...some extras maybe ?

he's said it already... isn't nearly full
Originally posted by Slogra
It might be interesting to know that the size of the VOBs of the standard Gladiator is 6.51GB. The size of Gladiator SB VOBs is 7.02GB.


:D

[waldok]

Thanks killingspree, I didn't notice that.
Makes Superbit a real "must-avoid" :D

Waldok:cool:

[Slogra]

Originally posted by waldok
You know, there is a difference for me between "knowing" that quality is better due to higher bitrate and possible mathematical reasons and "seing" quality improvements on screen.

Have you ever " seen" a Superbit DVD? It's kinda hard to show you how much better it looks on this forum, so I can only tell you why it's better: the higher bitrates + a good transfer.

Originally posted by waldok
I mean, I did some experiments a few years ago on encoding to 15mbits/s MPEG2 (I think it's the maximum bitrate allowed by MPEG2 spec, correct me if I'm wrong). I also did the same very difficult sequences (CCITT test sequences for those who know what I'm talking about) at 8 mbits/s. Honestly , I couldn't tell the difference. Oh yes, I knew the first one was "better" but what ? I didn't care at all since it was not "visible".


Superbit has a bitrate of 9.8 (video + audio total) which is the maximum by DVD standard.
Most normal DVD have a bitrate of about 5Mb. The difference between 9.8 and 5Mb is clearly visible. Besides a lot of normal DVDs are a bit blurred so it's easily compressable at 5Mb. SB can easily handle all detail of a movie so it isn't blurred. Another reason why SB is just better.

Originally posted by waldok
Same goes for superbit. If a movie is correctly encoded at VBR, with enough passes, it generally doesn't need to reach the 9.8mbits/s. What is wrong with Superbit ? It's a pure marketing trick. I'll accept the idea od Superbit the day editors will first use all the available space on a regular DVD9, thus improving their movie encoding and say "guys, we can "visibly" improve quality. According to me (as I said before), you can get extremely high quality on a standard DVD9 (except maybe for very long movies or very very difficult scenes), and you do not need to get rid of all the extras for that.
Waldok:cool:

DVD's are often not encoded correctly and have many flaws, because of a low bitrate or just a crappy transfer. When you buy a SB DVD you know for sure that the image quality is good.
I'd rather have the best quality movie that DVD can handle without extra's, than a mediocre quality of the movie with a lot of extra's. The movie itself is the most important when i buy a DVD. Extra's are nice, but i'll probably watch them only once.
BTW. a SB also uses a standard DVD9, it just makes better use of the space. The movie gets all the bits not the extra's.

Originally posted by waldok
One question by the way, is the superbit DVD "full" ? Or is there still room on it for let's say...some extras maybe ? :p


Many extra's doesn't make a good DVD in my eyes. Movie quality is most important.

Originally posted by waldok
Lastly, I'd like to know ie every "superbit fan" out there has a high quality TV that will allow them to notice the differences (if any).
Waldok:cool:

Even on my 32" 100HZ Widescreen i can easily see the quality difference. If i ever get a projector, i know that will have the best picture that DVD can deliver. Also the DTS sound is great on my soundsystem.

You can compare it with mp3. Would you rather have a 128kbps mp3 or the 320kbps which is the maximum the specs can handle?

[Atamido]

Originally posted by Slogra
Many extra's doesn't make a good DVD in my eyes. Movie quality is most important. You have obviously never seen the Zoolander DVD. ;)

Seriously though, I hardly watch any extras other than cut scenes, and there usually aren't that many of those to take up much space. The only exceptions that come to mind are the extras from the Zoolander DVD, which were the best I have ever seen. And the Making-Of for Jurassic Park, because it was such a revolutionary movie.

Other than that, I would far to have the best quality movie than the lame extras that are put on so many DVD's. I may not be able to see it on my TV now, but I will in a couple of years, and it is always better to have a cleaner source for encoding from.

[ppera2]

Slogra sit down and typed:
"Even on my 32" 100HZ Widescreen i can easily see the quality difference. If i ever get a projector, i know that will have the best picture that DVD can deliver. Also the DTS sound is great on my soundsystem. "

I think that you are completely wrong. Best picture you will get on (cheap) computer monitor. Don't believe to marketing propaganda - it stays both for superbit and projector :D

[Slogra]

A tv has much better contrast and color than any monitor.
And you watch your movies on a 14" monitor? That must be fun!

[ppera2]

Originally posted by Slogra
A tv has much better contrast and color than any monitor.
And you watch your movies on a 14" monitor? That must be fun!

Better color? Because use PAL or NTSC instead RGB?????

And what about resolution (sharpness) ?

Even poor people like me can have today 17 inch monitor.

[Slogra]

Ok, this will be my final post concerning this matter. I'm sick of people who haven't seen a Superbit once and still believe they should post their totally unbased opionions here. I owned you in this thread so give it up.

Just go to www.google.com and find some reviews about Superbit. I'm sure you won't find any negative comment about the picture quality. They all say it's oustanding and give it 5 stars.

Bye.

[waldok]

Slogra,

As usual, I will say, whatever pleases you best is the best for you. Far from me the idea to try and convince you that SB is a marketing trick (although I definitely know it is). Just do a search on superbit in google forums and you'll see what you get from some people who bought superbit DVDs and are rather disappointed.

Now I agree with you, movie is by far the most important part of the DVD. My point (maybe you didn't get it) was that there IS physical room on current DVDs for movie quality improvement, even without dropping the extras or pretending people need Superbit for this. Mind you, I have a 43" rear projector and I'm extremely concerned by picture quality. But I'm even more concerned by not letting marketing crooks try to make some more money on my back by selling this kind of stuff. And by the way I have indeed seen one superbit release (I think it was Panic Room).

See, I really doubt editors will put big efforts in reencoding movies to make them fill the 9.4Gig with best of the best quality for SB. What I think is that they just run a lame reencoding cnosidering they have 9.4GB at their disposal (let's say 1 pass VBR at 9800 max), put the results on the disk without any more question and yell "klook guys, this is the ultimate best of the best quality you will ever see on a DVD".

Plus, we didn't mention the fact that the source used for the encoding is also questionable. As they say, garbage in garbage out, so you are likely to get 9.8mbps garbage, even on a Superbit DVD.

(Concerning your point about MP3, well no, I don't give a damn if it was encoded at 320kbps if I can't HEAR any quality difference compared to 128kbps.)

So no offense intended, we just disagree on this issue, but the point is that we both are happy with what we watch :)

[Edit]
Considering your pretty unpleasant answer in the end, that I only saw after writing this post, I have to edit my post. I would say you didn't "own" anybody here, and you definitely sound like a usual "fashion victim". Instead of searching for superbit editors 5-star opinion in websites, look for real users comments in forums and try to feel the weight of marketing...
[end of edit]

Waldok:cool:
SuperBullshit DVD will not pass :p

[waldok]

@killingspree,

Well, you asked for opinions, and you definitely got some :D
I hope you'll still be able to figure it out by watching superbit DVDs and compare to standard ones and make you own opinion despite all the noise we have created here.

Waldok:cool:

[killingspree]

thanks.. .well what i've wanted were opinions not a flamewar... so please keep this thread civilised... i've decided to not buy the gladiator sb release, because the collectors edition already has fairly good quality... but i might just try the desperado sb dvd, because when 'just' paying 10 pounds or around 14€ i think almost nothing can go wrong (unless it's a cut version)

regards
steVe

PS: thanks for your opinions...

[ppera2]

Originally posted by Slogra
... I owned you in this thread so give it up.

Sure... You own big 100 HZ TV, you own other expensive stuffs, you own me... :D

[Slogra]

Well, i'm glad i could help. I just tried to give you (you all) MY opinion.

Anyway, maybe i went to far with that owning you stuff, i meant to put a ;) there, but it didn't make it to the final cut :p . So i take it back.

[Atamido]

Note: I read back over this and I sound like a very mean person it it, but this was unintentional. I was simply trying to correct ideas that I felt were being incorrectly conveyed. I am just to busy right now to edit it to sound nicer.

@waldok: I really think you missed something by reading your post. You go from saying that regular DVD's would look just as good if they used all of the space, to saying that the SuperBit DVD's don't look any better even though they do. Very confusing indeed.

As far as the amount of space, I agree that they don't use nearly as much of the space as they could. But I also think that there are reasons for this. The codecs that many of these companies are using are tuned to be used around 5mbps. Even if you have the extra space, they aren't going to be able to use it all. You can see this with consumer codecs. Go try any codec you want on a small clip and tell it to use some absurd amount of bandwidth. Some codecs will be able to use more bits to get a better picture, and some will only be able to use up to a certain amount because of the way that they are tuned.

The big difference with SuperBit's codec is that it is tuned specificaly towards higher bitrate encoding. It would probably look like junk if they tried to use the same codec to encode at 5mbps. So, yes, if they could use the extra space then the picture would be a little better. But, in many cases they can't.

I'm pretty sure you didn't get a look at the PNG's, but as I said, the SuperBit one was indeed more clear, albeit marginally. And here is a movie that everyone admits would be difficult make more clear. Just imagine what could be done on a movie that wasn't originally done so clearly.

Saying, "I have seen one superbit release" doesn't exactly make you an expert, especially when you can't even remember it well enough to be sure which one it was. (Panic Room would be a poor example of a SuperBit movie because it is so compressible anyway)

Saying that the picture is better, and that the sound is better on a SuperBit DVD IS NOT MARKETING HYPE. The picture is better, and DTS is better than DD. They just are not likely to be better to a degree that most people would notice. However, saying that extras need to be removed to have a SuperBit DVD would be marketing hype for most DVD's out there.


@Slogra: A TV does not have better color and contrast than a monitor. The default brightness and contrast of a TV is set to high in most store so that they stand out. A consumer will see the picture and think, "Oh, this TV is so much brighter than that one". But, you should adjust these when you get home so that the picture is at the correct levels.

Also, a 15 pin VGA cable will carry a much more clear signal than any other analog cable you can have for a TV. My CRT has both a 15DB and a DVI connector on the back. And I can assure you that the DVI connection is even more clear than the 15DB connection used on most monitors.

And yes, I switch between watching movies on my 21" Trinitron, and 32" TV. It depends on the circumstances, but the computer monitor is always more clear. (I used to have a 21" Trinitron and 31" TV sitting right next to each other, hooked to the same computer, and my roomate preffered to watch movies off of the 21" because it was more clear.)


Conclusion: IMHO - If you have a really nice setup, and are a true phile, then you will probably notice at least a slight difference. Without the equipment or being tuned to notice those things, you probably won't notice any difference. If it comes down to Extras, just decide if you care about them at all. (I currently own no SuperBit titles)

[fritzdis]

I would like to clear up a misconception. Superbit DVDs do not "max out" the DVD spec. Maybe some of them use bitrates of 9.8Mbps (audio + video), but not the ones I have. I own 6 R1 Superbit DVDs, and their bitrates (audio + video combined) are 7.56, 8.74, 6.59, 7.39, 6.76, and 6.93 Mbps. None of these discs are close to full, and in one extreme case, the vobs are only 4.7GB (The Dark Crystal, a short movie, but the bitrate is still below 7Mbps). Bitrates like these are certainly not unique to Superbit DVDs.

Like I said, I own 6 Superbit DVDs, and I just bought another one (Adaptation), so I clearly am willing to shell out the hefty price for them (they basically all still cost >$20 US). But they're certainly not the best value out there because they eliminate special features even if those features would fit on the disc and they don't really utilize a disc the way they say they do.

[waldok]

@slogra
No prob, I'm sorry for being a bit tough myself on this issue. Forget about this childish style of mine and as I said before, just enjoy your SB DVDs :)

@Pamel

You indeed sound a bit harsh in your post. No big deal anyway. Just a word, I sure am no expert in the superbit area, nor did I ever say I was. But the principle of SB just upsets me, and fritzDis, as a regular SB owner exactly pointed out what I find unacceptable in this "new trend" :
if editors can produce a much better quality movie and it still will remain in the end under 7Mbps bitrate, thus leaving a lot of space on the final SuperBit DVD, then why in the hell didn't they produce this great quality in the first place in the original DVD ??? There was obviously room for it ! So my conclusion is : either the SB doesnt bring much to quality and is almost the same as the initial movie, either the initial release was a "crookery" that could have been easily improved (not sure about the word "crookery" but you sure see what I mean :D)
That's my point, I hope I was clear enough and I sure don't want to bother you guys more than I already did.

By the way, I won't go into the old discussion about DTS being better than DD or not (better doesn't mean anything to me in this case)...plenty of "hot" threads around the forums world about it...

@fritzdis : thanks for the interesting info from a real owner.

Waldok:cool:

[Slogra]

Of course the opposide of Superbit would be DVDs with a way to low bitrate.
The Dutch release of Snatch is a good example. It had the movie and a lot of extra's all on one disc. And well, the picture quality was very poor, although not everyone seems to notice or care. I was stunned cause i cared a lot.
Also Disney's Beauty and the Beast Platinum Collection (sounds good eh) had a way too low bitrate. Why? because there are three versions of the movie on one disc (without seamless breaching). I thought EVERYONE knows that especially cartoons need some extra bitrate so there will be no compression artifact along those sharp lines. Well, apparently Disney does not know this, nor does THX. Cause yes, this disc is even THX certified while it's absolute crap quality.
Maybe a lot of people won't ever notice the low quality and that they're ripped off, but i noticed it immidiately.

Let's all pray that the Lion King will be better....

[ppera2]

Yes, there is a lot of examples for low bitrate DVD's.
Tin Cup is under 4 GB, (movie length is about 2h) no extra on disk.
Picture is little unsharp, but worst is that additionally to low bitrate field order is screwed too, so DVD player has some blurring job, what is very visible. I solved it with Decomb, but people which made it deserve forced course of 6 months at doom9 :D

Other screwed-up DVD is Chinese Lion King - in middle of movie resolution changes from 720 to 704 hor. It confuses most of players and afterwards we watch garbage :mad:

[waldok]

ppera wrote :
in middle of movie resolution changes from 720 to 704 hor

Man, that's something I never heard of before. Do they sell this kind of crap ? Can any standalone player deal with this ? Wait, maybe it is OK with the MPEG2 official standard, since i think resolution is allowed to change provided new values are mentioned in the GOP header (or is it some other header, I don't remember - Pamel don't flame me for not remembering this either, I'm getting old these days :p )

ppera... Did you rip it and try to reauthor with a "constant" resolution ? Does it work ? I'd like to have one of these here, just to see how it looks :D

Waldok:cool:

[ppera2]

Chinese DVD's are known as very problematic. On other side, ripping them is very good practice :) .

I made it in 2 steps, it was necessary because every software was confused by res. change. So I reencoded first part cropped to 704, and after that second without hor. crop and joined 2 parts later, what wasn't easy because of sound.

[waldok]

I guess you had fun with this one :p
AS you say, it is good practice... Now the only CHinese DVD I backuped was Hero from Zhang Yimou (spelling may be wrong...) and it was pretty well authored so, no such problem for me...until now.

Waldok:cool:

[Atamido]

Originally posted by waldok
(or is it some other header, I don't remember - Pamel don't flame me for not remembering this either, I'm getting old these days :p ) Bah! I am no video expert, I just like to speak in the theoretical. In fact, Avery Lee (of VirtualDub fame) chewed me out three times in a week for inaccuracies. To quote him, "Nice try, but I call BS on Pamel's explanation...So please stop spreading this crap." If that isn't a humbler, I don't know what is.

I think I remember Avery mentioning that the stream would actually need to stop and be reinitiated to handle a discontinuity in the stream, such as a dropped frame. I suppose that the same thing could be used to change resolutions. I believe you just leave the file continuous and players can read them back.

If this is off base, I'm sure Phaeron or Doom9 will come down from the thrones above to call damnation on my encoded soul. ;)

[waldok]

As I'm not sure either about my "header stuff", maybe some MPEG2 expert could enlighten us on this point : Can resolution be changed in some GOP header deep inside the MPEG2 stream ?

Waldok:cool:

[Mole]

I was just thinking, don't you think the studios use hardware encoders?

I thought multipass encoding could only be made through software....??

[harrya]

I have taken the time to read all of the posts on this subject and decided to drop a line here too.

First, a little about my system. I'm listing some of my system specs as a reference, not for the purpose of bragging.
AUDIO: Marantz DTS decoder
Dedicated Parasound THX amps
Magnepan fronts, Platinum center, NHT rears, NHT sub
VIDEO: NEC DLP projector (1024x768 native)
9'6" diagonal screen
A+V SOURCE: Home Theater PC w/ Audigy 2 Platinum EX

Second, I own both normal and superbit versions of:
- The Mask of Zorro
- Fifth Element
- Air Force One
- Men in Black

Lastly, the differences between the two. It's obvious the superbit DVDs are superior. Yes I agree it is BULLSH@# they don't just release the superbit version first, but they just want us to buy two versions of the same DVD.

ADVANTAGES of superbit:
- Video is cleaner, better color, and has a better contrast ratio.
- Audio is SUPERIOR as they offer DTS EX

DISADVANTAGES of superbit:
- You do not get all the special addons that the normal discs offer as the superbit requires more space for the enhanced audio and video
- Comes out after the original (usually)

While, I am not an expert on how they do the transfer differently, I know one thing, the superbit is worth buying a million times over the normal version.

If you want to the explanation of the difference first hand, go to http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/superbit/html/content/howwork.html and read.

While I know my advice means nothing to those who do not know me, take it anyway... GET THE SUPERBIT VERSIONS!!! And no, I do not work for the movie companies :)

Hope my rambling convinces you to give it a try!!!

[prankster]

Not so long ago I had a possibility of watching Das Boot on a dvd-9 with dd5.1 mixes (both German and English, btw English dub completely sucks; even though my knowledge of German is questionable :) I preffered the German soundtrack with subtitles). Quality was not that bad to me, as you must know it's a 210 minutes film, with 3 soundtracks and some extras.

Today I got my first SB, which is Das Boot of course. Not to mention the quality of DTS soundtrack, which just rocks your house with its' deepness, new incarnation of this movie is plain amazing. Now on 2 dvd-9s (around 12,5 GB in total) you really couldn't tell it was made for few million bucks, in Germany in 1985. It's just that good. A few years younger The Hunt For The Red October is nowhere near it (comparing to standard r2 release, little emphasis on extras and lack of any DTS).

Of course we could say - why it's not full 16 gigs? Why no extras then, where space is not an issue? and so on.. I say - just watch this SuperBit, 'cause for a movie 18 years old it looks extraordinary. Let's hope Indiana Jones looks like this when it comes out this November (r2 too!).

PS
There is one thing I'd like to know - Is there an r1 edition of K-19 The Widowmaker with DTS? In r2 (at least here in Poland) I can buy such a thing with DTS ES for about 15 Euros (18$?). It's really hard to say smth good about r2 dvd market, but looks like this time we have a treat here.