XviD-14052003-1.exe

[mf]

Originally posted by gino25
when there will be a new koepi version?
When there are new things that are worth compiling into a new public version.

[Lobuz]

So when will be VHQ for B-frames? :D I thought about slowing down encoding a bit more to compete with newest "unstable" DIVX Tahanea with "rate distortion" etc. Hmm movie in 2 weeks - I'm curious if it could boost video quality for example 10% more?

Regards
Lobuz

[symonjfox]

AFAIK, VHQ for BFrames won't increase a lot the quality (as the Pframe one does). Let's hope well :p

[mf]

Originally posted by Lobuz
So when will be VHQ for B-frames? :D I thought about slowing down encoding a bit more to compete with newest "unstable" DIVX Tahanea with "rate distortion" etc. Hmm movie in 2 weeks - I'm curious if it could boost video quality for example 10% more?

Regards
Lobuz

uuuuuh like... xvid has had like rate distortion for ages.. and then you like.. wanna encode with divx tanahanea or something.. that sucks.. huhhuhuhhhuhhuhuhuhuhuh

[-=Stan=-]

I have recently noticed that XviD encoding at lower resolution aint working fine.
The codec seems to introduce a lot of Noise even without Qpel .
Is there anyway i can reduce this noise.

Another thing i noticed was that the codec was encoding much slowly with B-frames disabled than with B-frames enabling .
for example - With B-Frames 3/150/100/50 ---> 24fps
Without B-Frames ---> 17fps

I wonder whats causing this .
BTW my other settings are - Chroma motion , Motion Search 6, H.263 , Vhq 4 .
I was trying to encode a VCD with resolution 352 X 288 .

[HomiE FR]

@-=Stan=- : You're using VHQ=4, and like mf and others said just above, VHQ is only working for p-frames. With no b-frames, there are only p-frames and i-frames, so VHQ is working very often. With b-frames, maybe the codec is a bit slower (I haven't tested since I only use xvid with b-frames enabled now) because of b-frames but VHQ isn't enabled for each b-frame (so it's enabled very less often than without b-frames).
I guess VHQ has a higher impact on speed than b-frames (since you use VHQ=4 the effect is visible).

[-=Stan=-]

Thanks HomiE FR
I get it now.

But what about that noise thingy anyway i can get rid of it .

[vinouz]

What bitrate do you use ?

[-=Stan=-]

Vinouz

Bitrate is about 700 .
However the movie is very compressible.
i was doing 2 pass .
And the second pass-stats edited with Koepi stats reader was set to compression ratio of 1.5:1
So dont think that bitrate matters much .

[Danzel]

Have you tryed to do your second pass using 2nd pass int. instead of stats reader?

Danzel.

[-=Stan=-]

Dint do an internal 2nd pass but 100% quality based mode gave the same result so dont think that internal 2nd pass wud matter much .

[Danzel]

I have just converted a vcd compliant mpg into xvid using the latest xvid and my results have been fine using your settings.

have a look at your source material, perhaps its already noisy and xvid isnt able to handle it well.

you might try run it through an avisynth script to clean it up a bit, head over to the avisynth forums for more info on that.

Danzel.

[-=Stan=-]

My video is noisy .
I cleaned it up using Conv3D

But the XviD bit is noisy .
It seems much better when is set the decoder in ffdshow to XVID than libavcodec .
Anyways think i can cope up with that much artifact and enjoy the extreme
compression using XVID and Vorbis in an OGM.

712 MB compressed to 287 MB .
What more can i ask for .

[cweb]

I cannot give you any panacea but have you tried not using the chroma motion option? I don't tend to use it in general and I don't see this noise. In fact I even compressed at much lower bitrates (320, even 220) and the quality is of course reduced but it is not too noisy (compared to an equivalent wmv file) - I did that for some DV clips I wanted to put online in a low bandwidth version.

Edit: Yes, I do encode with XviD at higher quality bitrates (minimum 920, or 2-pass encodes)..

[PowerMacG4]

I just did an encode with minimum i-frame spacing at 0, and there are WAY too many I-frames. I saw a block of about 40 I-frames in a row. I cannot force I-frame spacing when using B-frames. Is there any way to improve this overly liberal use of I-frames?

EDIT: Oooh. Stupid me. Thought I loaded defaults when I really didn't...

[Teegedeck]

Why did you change that default? You want to use a minimum i-frame interval of '1', not '0'... :scared:

[pan]

Hello everyone,

I ran some tests over the weekend on all the features of xvid.
They were all ran in 2 pass mode, using in the first test 3% of the movie (4042 frames) and in the second 5% of the movie (6737 frames). With both I aimed for a filesize of 22000.

The movie was a very clean source Joe Somebody, quite a bright movie but very little action.

The script used was just

Crop
LanczosResize(592,304)

B-frames settings were x-150-100-150 where x is the number of bframes listed in the bframes column.

Test 1

speed vhq bframes cm lumi gmc ch opt qpel r-d 1stpass 2ndpass comp psnr y psnr u psnrv psnr ave
1 14.9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 45462 22004 53.16 39.95 43.74 44.84 42.84
2 12.1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 48504 22006 49.82 39.52 43.21 44.18 42.31
3 7.5 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 46820 22004 51.62 39.67 43.39 44.38 42.48
4 5.5 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 46152 22006 52.36 39.74 43.42 44.42 42.53
5 4.2 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 45568 22008 53.03 39.83 43.49 44.51 42.61
6 13.2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 33582 22010 71.96 40.10 44.12 45.32 43.18
7 12.6 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 30108 22014 80.27 39.99 44.19 45.43 43.21
8 12.3 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 28720 22018 84.15 39.87 44.17 45.39 43.14
9 13.2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 45174 22006 53.50 39.97 43.83 44.98 42.93
10 9.7 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 46702 22004 51.75 39.79 43.71 44.80 42.77
11 14.0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 45462 22008 53.16 39.94 43.75 44.85 42.85
12 15.2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 45480 22004 53.14 39.95 43.74 44.84 42.84
13 12.3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 40928 22006 59.05 40.23 43.97 45.12 43.11
14 12.6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 43206 22004 55.93 40.10 43.62 44.72 42.81
15 12.1 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 30868 22028 78.29 39.90 44.10 45.30 43.10
16 9.8 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 30164 22014 80.12 39.99 44.16 45.39 43.18
17 8.2 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 29894 22026 80.84 40.02 44.17 45.40 43.19
18 7.0 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 29482 22016 81.97 40.08 44.22 45.46 43.25
19 8.5 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 27942 22014 86.49 40.22 44.33 45.61 43.39
20 6.7 0 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 27708 22018 87.22 40.25 44.40 45.73 43.46
21 6.6 0 2 1 0 1 0 1 0 27680 22018 87.31 40.26 44.40 45.72 43.46
22 5.2 0 2 1 1 1 0 1 0 28476 22014 84.87 40.08 44.37 45.66 43.37
23 5.2 0 2 1 1 1 1 1 0 28476 22014 84.87 40.08 44.36 45.67 43.37
24 5.1 0 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 27650 22014 87.40 40.15 44.31 45.61 43.36
25 5.1 1 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 34902 22004 69.24 39.38 43.67 44.78 42.61
26 4.3 2 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 34316 22012 70.42 39.47 43.72 44.85 42.68
27 3.8 3 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 34008 22006 71.06 39.51 43.75 44.87 42.71
28 3.5 4 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 33908 22014 71.27 39.53 43.75 44.89 42.72
29 4.3 4 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 27567 22014 87.67 40.30 44.36 45.65 43.44


Test 2

vhq bframes cm lumi gmc ch opt qpel r-d 1stpass comp psnr y psnr u psnrv psnr ave
1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 73634 32.82 38.14 42.57 43.30 41.34
2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 77822 31.05 37.70 41.98 42.58 40.76
3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 75100 32.18 37.81 42.13 42.76 40.90
4 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 74110 32.61 37.87 42.16 42.78 40.94
5 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 73224 33.00 37.95 42.22 42.86 41.01
6 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 53740 44.97 38.49 43.15 44.03 41.89
7 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 47884 50.47 38.46 43.29 44.20 41.98
8 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 45598 53.00 38.34 43.29 44.20 41.94
9 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 73182 33.02 38.12 42.69 43.47 41.43
10 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 75606 31.96 38.06 42.54 43.28 41.29
11 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 73610 32.83 38.12 42.57 43.30 41.33
12 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 73662 32.81 38.14 42.56 43.30 41.33
13 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 65972 36.63 38.50 42.87 43.66 41.68
14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 70084 34.48 38.24 42.45 43.19 41.30
15 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 49000 49.32 38.37 43.13 44.01 41.84
16 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 47828 50.53 38.45 43.21 44.12 41.93
17 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 47502 50.88 38.48 43.22 44.12 41.94
18 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 46850 51.58 38.56 43.28 44.20 42.01
19 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 44256 54.61 42.24 43.48 44.45 42.24
20 0 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 43876 55.08 38.79 43.58 44.60 42.32
21 0 2 1 0 1 0 1 0 43858 55.10 38.80 43.59 44.59 42.33
22 0 2 1 1 1 0 1 0 45148 53.53 38.69 43.54 44.54 42.26
23 0 2 1 1 1 1 1 0 45150 53.53 38.68 43.54 44.53 42.25
24 0 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 43898 55.05 38.73 43.42 44.42 42.19
25 1 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 55648 43.43 37.79 42.66 43.45 41.30
26 2 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 55450 43.58 37.92 42.76 43.54 41.39
27 3 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 54878 44.04 37.94 42.73 43.53 41.40
28 4 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 54262 44.54 38.02 42.77 43.61 41.47
29 4 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 43472 55.59 38.83 43.47 44.45 42.25



I havent entered in speeds into the second test as they were much the same as the first.
I haven't actually had time to visually check all of them yet but the ones I did look at honestly weren't that different from each other.

I used psnr4avi to compare the psnr values.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions from the results.

Any comments are appreciated, hope this helps some people when deciding their settings. If anyone can see any flaws in the tests I'd be happy to rerun them.


Pan

[sysKin]

Something wrong with VHQ _again_:( :( :(

[superdump]

Very interesting results. From what I can make out at a glance chroma optimiser and vhq actually lower the average psnr very slightly.

Lines 20 and 21 hold the highest psnr (unless i missed one :)) in both tests.

Thanks for running those tests pan.

I've read people saying psnr isn't the best measure of quality with regard to the human eye. So is there a better measure that's easy to do?

Thanks again.

[Nibor]

Yeah, lower your display resolution, open two encodes each in VDubMod, place the windows both on the same position, go to a frame, switch between the two windows and compare (with the human eye :D :D :D )

Just my 0.5 cents :p

[mf]

Originally posted by Nibor
Yeah, lower your display resolution, open two encodes each in VDubMod, place the windows both on the same position, go to a frame, switch between the two windows and compare (with the human eye :D :D :D )

Just my 0.5 cents :p
I usually do a StackHorizontal(), hold the right arrow button, and look left and right as fast as my eye muscles will let me :D. I recently did that with 3 clips, by doing

blank = BlankClip(clip1, $000000)
row1 = StackHorizontal(clip1, clip2)
row1 = StackHorizontal(clip3, blank)
StackVertical(row1, row2)
:D

Human eye comparing pwnz :P.

[Nibor]

Originally posted by mf
I usually do a StackHorizontal(), hold the right arrow button, and look left and right as fast as my eye muscles will let me :D
Hey mf you're a damn f****** cool guy!!! :D
I didn't know this method before! It's exactly what I looked for, to compare two clips while playing... Until now I had to watch a part of one clip close it and watch the same part of the other clip... This way it was really hard to tell the quality differences of the two clips!
You're good yo! Na na, you're good! You're better than good, you're real good! :)

[bond]

why dont you use avscompare (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40675&highlight=avscompare)?

[mf]

Originally posted by bond
why dont you use avscompare (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40675&highlight=avscompare)?
I'd say this is easier.

[Nibor]

Thank you guys...
(I'm proud of my 11th post :p *gg*)

PS: For those who understand German.. Did you know what "hand gelenke" means in English?? Babelfish says that it's "hand of joints"!! *lol* pretty off topic heh :D ...

[jang0]

Originally posted by Nibor
Thank you guys...
(I'm proud of my 11th post :p *gg*)

PS: For those who understand German.. Did you know what "hand gelenke" means in English?? Babelfish says that it's "hand of joints"!! *lol* pretty off topic heh :D ...

wrists.

Don't use Babelfish, it sucks hard. Use dict.leo.org instead.
Anyway, this is totally Offtopic.

Hmm, sad to hear that vhq still has problems. perhaps the psnr values are from 1st pass file instead of the final final :devil:

[pan]

The psnr values are for the second pass, not the first.
The only reason I left the first pass file sizes there was to show the different compressibility of each clip.

Pan

[Prettz]

Originally posted by mf
I usually do a StackHorizontal(), hold the right arrow button, and look left and right as fast as my eye muscles will let me :D. I recently did that with 3 clips, by doing

blank = BlankClip(clip1, $000000)
row1 = StackHorizontal(clip1, clip2)
row1 = StackHorizontal(clip3, blank)
StackVertical(row1, row2)
:D

Human eye comparing pwnz :P.
I used to do that, but it wasn't very useful for me. Use Interleave() instead, that way you can hit left, right, left, right over and over in vdub to compare frames instantly.


edit: isn't very useful -> wasn't very useful for me

[Didée]

Originally posted by sysKin
Something wrong with VHQ _again_ Could you tell us a little more?

[BoNz1]

Didée, I don't want to guess at what syskin meant but I can tell you what jumped out at me when looking at pan's test, just if anyone didn't spot this:
speed vhq bframes cm lumi gmc ch opt qpel r-d 1stpass 2ndpass comp psnr y psnr u psnrv psnr ave
1 14.9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 45462 22004 53.16 39.95 43.74 44.84 42.84
2 12.1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 48504 22006 49.82 39.52 43.21 44.18 42.31

PSNR goes down when using vhq 0 to 1, :( but 1-4 increases PSNR as it should. This occurs in the second test too.

[sysKin]

OK guys, VHQ has been fixed.
Thanks for your tests!

Radek

[Th3-S4int]

Originally posted by sysKin
OK guys, VHQ has been fixed.
Thanks for your tests!

Radek
And when will koepi release it?

[bond]

btw: where is koepi?
he only visits doom9 very rarely anymore?

[Koepi]

I'm here but i seldom feel the urge to add something to the current threads ;-)

I could make a new build available soon.

Regards
Koepi

[Sigmatador]

@koepi
is it possible for the next build to use de optimized trbarry simple idct code for decoding ? :D

[Selur]

@Koepi:
A new build would be cool :D

Thx in advance :)

[bond]

Originally posted by Koepi
I'm here but i seldom feel the urge to add something to the current threadsyeah but sometimes i really think that it would be great if you would answer ;)

[jang0]

Got a small question:

What is hinted ME? I remember it used to be a big no-no and now it's even greyed out. Will it be available in Xvid 1.0? What does it mean and what advantages does it have?

[sysKin]

Originally posted by jang0
What is hinted ME? I remember it used to be a big no-no and now it's even greyed out. Will it be available in Xvid 1.0? What does it mean and what advantages does it have? 'Hinted ME' means that motion estimation is only performed in 1st pass, and the information are written to a file. In second pass, instead of re-computing motion, the file is used.
The idea looks OK at first, but practice has shown that it completely doesn't work. Motion information in mpeg4 is not strictly dependant on real motion, it's rather something based on motion, reference picture (which depends on quantizer), current quantizer etc. Copying the motion information from first pass just looked horrible.

Hinted ME will not be available in 1.0, and is not planned in the future.

Radek

[bugsan]

some tests of bframes ...

xvid koepi 14-05-03, 2pass: 20000ko (650kbps)
avisynth 2.52
Athlon XP 2000+
Mpeg2Dec3 1.08
Xvid internal decoder (not ffdshow), no PP
---avs------avs------avs------avs------avs------avs---
mpeg2source("E:\Ripping\lotrcutted\lotr.d2v",idct=7)
Crop(4,80,-4,-80)
BicubicResize(640,256,0,0.5)
---avs------avs------avs------avs------avs------avs---
clip1 = mpeg2source("E:\Ripping\lotrcutted\lotr.d2v",idct=7)
.Crop(4,80,-4,-80).BicubicResize(640,256,0,0.5).ConvertToYUY2()
clip2 = directshowsource("xvid_bf_XX.avi",fps=25).ConvertToYUY2()
Compare(clip1,clip2,"YUV","psnr.log")
---avs------avs------avs------avs------avs------avs---

XviD default psnr : 41.9028

|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|
| 1 - 150 | 1 - 190 | 2 - 150 | 2 - 190 | 3 - 150 |
|---------------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|
| bf thresh 0 | 41.8666 | 41.8749 | 41.7618 | | 41.7480 |
| bf thresh 25 | 41.8644 | 41.9009 | 41.7545 | | |
| bf thresh 50 | 41.8874 | 41.9208 | 41.7434 | | |
| bf thresh 75 | 41.9128 | 41.9268 | 41.7214 | | |
| bf thresh 100 | 41.9674 | 41.9607 | 41.7448 | | |
| bf thresh 125 | 41.9593 | 41.9678 | 41.7549 | | |
| bf thresh 150 | 41.9624 | 41.9689 | 41.7559 | | |
| bf thresh 175 | 41.9702 | 41.9749 | 41.7580 | | |
| bf thresh 200 | 41.9859 | 41.9799 | 41.7681 | | |
| bf thresh 225 | 41.9846 | 41.9652 | 41.7739 | | |
| bf thresh 250 | 41.9782 | 41.9784 | 41.7775 | | |
|---------------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|
| bf offset 0 | 41.8797 | | 41.8257 | | 41.8153 |
| bf offset 25 | 41.8885 | | 41.8300 | | 41.8217 |
| bf offset 50 | 41.8936 | | 41.8364 | | 41.8353 |
| bf offset 75 | 41.9046 | | 41.8481 | | 41.8485 |
| bf offset 100 | 41.8666 | | 41.7618 | | 41.7480 |
| bf offset 125 | 41.8687 | | 41.7651 | | |
|---------------|---------|---------|---------|---------|---------|

[Koepi]

Closing this thread as a new build is out :)

Thanks for your testing, make sure to retest with the new build as well, it should give more impressing results.

Regards
Koepi