Backup of Spirited Away...multiangle

[EonBlue]

i'm trying to do a backup of spirited away and i have 2 things that i need help with.

one is multiangles...here is what the main movies ifo (vts_01_0.ifo) looks like:
-------------------------------------------
PGC_1 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 1] [02:04:29.04 / 30 fps] (Programs: 17) (Cells: 22) (uses VOB-IDs: 2,3,4,5,6,5,6)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 2/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:01:45.05 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:01:45.05] [Frames: 3155]
[Cell 02] [V/C Id: 3/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:01:45.05 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:01:45.05] [Frames: 3155]
[Cell 03] [V/C Id: 4/ 1] : time: 00:10:44.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:12:29.05] [Frames: 22475]
.
.
.
[Ch 16] [Pg 16] [Cell 19] [V/C Id: 5/ 1] (Angle 1): time: 00:03:40.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 02:04:27.04] [Frames: 224014]
[Cell 20] [V/C Id: 6/ 1] (Angle 2): time: 00:03:40.24 / 30 fps [Pos: 02:04:27.04] [Frames: 224014]
[Ch 17] [Pg 17] [Cell 21] [V/C Id: 5/ 2] (Angle 1): time: 00:00:02.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 02:04:29.04] [Frames: 224074]
[Cell 22] [V/C Id: 6/ 2] (Angle 2): time: 00:00:02.00 / 30 fps [Pos: 02:04:29.04] [Frames: 224074]

chapters 2-15 all use VOBID 4 and don't have any angles

PGC_2 (program chain): [Title(TTN): 2] [00:00:00.25 / 30 fps] (Programs: 1) (Cells: 1) (uses VOB-IDs: 7)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 7/ 1] : time: 00:00:00.25 / 30 fps [Pos: 00:00:00.25] [Frames: 25]
-------------------------------------------
i've read around but the explanations that people gave were kinda over my head...i'm looking for a way to back this up using DIFU, DCFU, and Scenarist. so i was wondering if i needed to demux by vobid, cellid, of if i could just do it by pgc

the second thing i wanted to ask about was removing trailers from the dvd. there is a 'sneak peeks' section on the dvd with about 7 or so trailers and it takes up a lot of room. i know trilight says not to strip it but rather replace them with filler objects. but do i replace them with the filler .m2v or the filler bitmaps...and how EXACTLY do i go about doing that (in scenarist?) because i'm really confused.

as you can see i'm very new at this so please bear with me...i could use ANY information you're willing to provide.

[EonBlue]

could someone just at least point me in the right direction....i'm not looking for an easy way out or anything...i just wanna understand how to process multiangle (at least the one i have right now)

please help

[coona]

Hi tharakan,

to your first question: I guess you should use Trilight´s guide "MULTIPLE ANGLE" on his site http://dvdguides.trilight.net. It seems to be guide for your scenario ;).

to your second question:

1) import e.g. Trilight´s still dummy file (can be downloaded on doom9´s software page or on Trilight´s site :)) into Scenarist
2) drag and drop this dummy into Track editor
3) create the same structure as original have in Scenario editor (the same number of PGCs)
4) compile

If you run into trouble post again and someone will help you :).

[EonBlue]

thanks coona

the other thing i was wondering about was chapters using multiangle. trilight's guide was done for extras so he didn't really have to worry about creating chapters. can i make chapters for multiangle using scenchap and importing into scenarist like i normally do?

[influenza]

The title has te be done be vobid (at least that's what I did). If you use ifoupdate to save your chapters, be sure to check the vobid for scenarist 9or something like that). You will get all your chapters (also for the multiangle vobids).

[EonBlue]

thanks influenza....i'll try it and see how it works out

[influenza]

I ran into a little bit of trouble though:

one angle had less frames then the other for some reason. This wa the first angle which shows the opening credits in either japanese or english, probably based on the chosen language. I chose to have both angles the same (both English). Other then that i did not run into many problems. The only strange thing is that the movie doesn't have a vobid 1 only 2,3,4,5,6,7 and after reauthoring this becomes 1,2,3,4,5,6. But this doesn't matter.

[jdobbs]

This was an interesting title. In the NTSC version I found there was an entire cell at the beginning of the VTS that was never referenced anywhere in the IFOs. It was a repeat of some of the credits footage.

[EonBlue]

@jdobbs: i'm doing the ntsc version too. could u explain to me how you went about backing up this movie?

[coona]

@influenza

You are really "spirit of knowledge". Did you backuped Snatch?? There is a lot multiangle extras or video over button features :(. Your help would be really appreciated.

@jdobbs

Is there some "bug" in IfoUpdate 0.69?? I tried adjusted cell mode but it didn´t work for me - there was some navigation error and auto correct vts sector failed. I had to use Ifoedit but it still not works :(. I´ll try new version today or tomorrow...

[EonBlue]

@jdobbs: i think i know what ure talking about w/ that mystery cell. is it the clip w/ the guy from disney (i think his name is paul lasseter) is talking about the first time he saw spirited away and how lucky everyone is to have the opportunity to see it?

when you reauthored did this clip still play before the movie?

@influenza: since you didn't have the japanese beginning angle, did you just put the english angle twice? (sorry if that was a dumb question but as u can see i'm a noob)...and what'd u do about the angles at the end...did u run into any problems with those?

as you guys can see i'm just looking for any and all information to help me better understand all of this so you don't have to worry about explaining things 'too well' or giving me 'too much information' :D

[influenza]

@jdobbs: you're correct actually vobid 1 existed (i said it didn't) and was extracted but was nowhere to be found in the ifo (maybe some authoring error??). It was the end credit so very strange (not the intro by paul something which is in an other vts set)

@tharakan: I had the Japanese begin angle but like I said it was shorter then the english one and scenarist bitched about that. So yes I used the English one twice.

the end credits I kept in both Japanese and English I believe.

And BTW : there are people here who know quite some more I know for sure. I just l;ike to give some help when possible (just like I got when i ran into trouble)

[EonBlue]

ok i've got my m2v files for each angle (did it by vobid) and i'm up to scenarist now which is where i'm stuck. how do i go about making chapters for the different angles? also i've unchecked the vts corresponding to the numerous trailers (sneek peeks) in spirited away. i'm confused on how to create a dummy vts w/ the appropriate pgcs as to remain faithful to the original ifo. but i think i can kinda figure that out later. right now i really need to know about adding the chapters and what options to select using scenchap.

thanks

**edit** i know that doom9 has some info about the multiangle stuff but when he updated his scenarist guide the link for doing chapters by vobid w/ scenchap is missing and i tried looking for it in his document list but cant find it there either.

[influenza]

just use ifoupdate and go to file save chapters, choose vobif for scenarist or something. A txt file will be created will all the chapters per vobid. You can paste this info into scenchap and import into scenarist., It must be in the doom9 guide (when working) or in trilights guide.

[influenza]

tip: first creatye your track with both angles before exporting your scenarist script (which you drag and drop onto scenchap) otherwise your second angle won't have a second chapter

[influenza]

Did it all work out? What do you want to know about snatch?

[coona]

Hi influenza

What do you want to know about snatch?

This DVD is realy hard to backup. There are some multiangle extras and some kind of video over button :(. Movie itself has only 3,5 GB, but there are a lot of extras I want to keep. How can I find where each video over button has to be pointed?? It has to be pointed to some PGC in another titleset :(. So any help is really welcome.

[influenza]

It was hard that's true. I found out that the buttons directly point to pgc2 in the vmg. I could not create that kind of command in scenarist (without rauthoring everything, which I didn't want).

So I did this (i have the pal r2 BTW).

The buttons created needed commands like mov gprm4,10 linktailpgc, button=1 (deleted scene 1), for deleted scene 2 (11) and deleted scene 3 12.

In the vts_01.ifo I changed post command of pgc 1 to call vmgpgc2 (in stead of 7).

Everything works ok like this, except that when the movie is finished it doesn't go back to the main menu, but start again (but I don't care about it). Couldn't solve that, but didn't think it was that important.

[influenza]

The multiangle extras are really straight forward. Just rip by vobid, rencode (close all gops, restrict auto I frame insertion). Put them together again. No chapters, no subs. That should not be any problem I think.

[coona]

Did you re-encode the main movie or extras only?? I guess that deleted scenes are in VTS 09 (I´m doing R2 too :confused: ).

[influenza]

I reencoded (almost) everything. The deleted scenes from the stealing stones feature are indeed in vts9.

If you want to know what title something is you can use powerdvd (it can show info about audio title etc while playing). In video_ts.ifo you can see what vtsset is what title.

If you need any more info just let me know.

[Eyes`Only]

Wow some great topical conversation going on here!

just a note:
one angle had less frames then the other for some reason. This wa the first angle which shows the opening credits in either japanese or english, probably based on the chosen language. I chose to have both angles the same (both English). This happens a lot. Trilight shows the solution to it, you need to edit your .ecls before running CCE to have each m2v have the same amount of frames so that Scenarist accepts them.

Glad to see so many people taking the plunge and learning vobid techniques!

[influenza]

i'm glad we have this wonderfull tool called doitfast4u to do vobid :sly: Thank you so much!
Although I still have this problem that when I split by vobid a dvddecryptor run for the entire titleset is made for every vobid :confused:

About the multiangle thing: I didn't check the total number of frames and I was also too laze to encode again :D

[Eyes`Only]

You're quite welcome. I'm just glad that so many people think my work is valuable.

As for the vobid issue, I plan to work on it later tonight, and get a new beta out soon. I've also got an interlaced tff/bff testing algorithm coded so we'll see how that goes :)

[influenza]

Don't stay up too late :D

Is this algorithm for PAL or NTSC DVDS?

[Eyes`Only]

PAL :D (yes, remain calm. It might actually happen!)

[influenza]

Wow I almost fell of my chair here! I think you must be the first to have figured this out I guess;)

[Eyes`Only]

If it works correctly (there's really no reason it shouldn't) I will be making a separate commandline utility for the community to use via CLI. Something like testbff.exe or something. We'll let the community have this capability also :D

[coona]

Can you tell me how did you re-encode "almost everything". I know what extras are in what titlesets. But there is more than 3,5GB in big extra VTSs and 3,5GB in main movie VTS + menu. I want to keep everything but it seems to be too large for one DVDR :confused:. Can you send some "guide" - what bitrates in what VTS?? It will safe a lot of time to me.

THX :).

@Eyes`Only
Thanx for that great program :). Without DoItFast4U and Jddobs´s IfoUpdate the live will be much harder than it is now :).

[influenza]

I deleted my ECL file, so I don't know exactly. I think I did the main movie at a bitrate around 2200-2300 kbs. The extras I did at a fairly low bitrate (vts4 2000 kbs, the rest around 1800, the angles from the multiangle extras especially 2 and 3 can be done at a really low bitrate). I just did a first run the create a vaf file. After that I opened everything under the advanced button (starting with the main movie) to see what would be the average q factor per bitrate. For the extras I settle for a Q factor of 9 if possibhle but not higher then 10. For the main movie around 7. I did some calculation and ended around 4,65 GB. You can do it with doitfast4u ofcourse and set a fixed bitrate for the extras. Then use this as input for doccforu. You end up with streams that will certainly fit on a dvdr. This is a really neat feauture. I choose not to do this for this title for some reasons:

1)some extras are multiangle. I believe that doitfastforu won't calculate the bitrate correctly for the multiangle vobids and doesn't automatically add close all gops and restrict auto I frame as settings in cce? Maybe eyes only can shed a light on this?
2)There are too many different extras, which may require different bitrates. Like I said some extras could be encoded at a really low bitrate while retaining a nice q factor. This saved some space I could use for extras which require a somewhat higher bitrate.

This title has so many extras that you have to settle for some quality loss on the extras. But I must say that it really looks good on TV.

Just a note, some vtssets have only one vobid and multiple pgcs (so only vobid 1, used i multiple pgcs). I suggest you do them by vobid (this saves some space since you do seamless branching then, if you do them by pgc you get duplicate video streams that take up more space)

[coona]

Thanx a lot :D.

I´ll do it during weekend (I hope so!!!).

[influenza]

OK GOOD LUCK, AND LET ME KNOW IF IT WORKS OUT

[influenza]

Coona, I don't know if you did it already. I had a title with some similar things: jumps directly to a pgc in the vmg (just as used in snatch). I fixed this by creating a dummy vmg (with the same pgcs as in the original). You can just add a language and pgcs (no video needed). From your button just create a jump to the pgc (in the case of snatch also set gprm4 to the correct value).

Maybe I should write a button over video guide if needed, since the existing one isn't really complete.

[coona]

Hi influenza,

I´m totaly out of time because my graduate work at univerzity :(. I have red the guide for video over button writen by SeYtoN (I guess) but it is writen for Matrix. I own Matrix but the guide is too complicated for me in these days (as Doom9 wrote - Mt. Everest of DVD backuping). I´m also little bit stuck in creating some "dummy videos" because of dummy multiangle titlesets in my Snatch project.

Some guide for video over button would be greatly appreciated :). I guess there are a lot of people with the same opinion :).

P.S. Did you solve your still-slide problem??

[influenza]

Graduating from university is more important then backing up snatch? :sly:

Button over video is most of the time not really difficult, but you just have to know where to look and how to handle things. The guide on doom9 is not very clear. I used it as refence ofcourse the first time, but most things are learned by practise. (in fact it's quite the same when you finish university. You have read a lot and when you start working you start learning stuff you really need ;) )

If I find some time I'll write a guide, based om several titles, not just one.

I solved my still-slide problem by recreating the tracks. I hoped there was a way of changing the track properties in scenarist so that I would not have to recreate my lay-out but unfortunately that was not possible.

[coona]

Graduating from university is more important then backing up snatch? :sly:

I have the same opinion but my girl-friend has very powerful methods to protect me from the sin called DVD backuping :D.

I'll write a guide...

I´m looking forward to it. It is really time consuming to catch up all new tricks and new progies involved in authoring process.

btw do you have some experience with DVD+R media? I´m curious about durability/quality of different brands of media. As the price of media became nearly the same I´m not sure which one to pick up: Verbatim, Memorex, Imation or HP (I tried to check the ID number of producer but have no luck with it).

[influenza]

During studying you have to have some realxing moments now and then, so I guess this is where your girlfriends powerful methods come about?:D Authoring snatch, besides the waiting when encoding, should not take you more then 1 or two hours anyway, but tell my about girl friends....

I have a pioneer dvd burner myself so I'm stuck to dvd-r, which works perfectly. I used princos before but I found that they are not the best around (understatement).

For cd-r I always use verbatim, which are in my opinion the best around. For the quality of their dvd+r I don't know. Their dvd-r are good, but relatively expensive.

[coona]

I see you know what methods I´m talking about :D :D.

My opinion on Verbatim media is the same, but I have red some warnings from members in burning section... I´ll try to start new thread about it.

Big thanx for your past, present and future (remember the guide :)) help. Be sure I´ll ask you for it ;).

[killingspree]

hi guys
first sorry for 'hijacking' your thread for my purposes, but i'm stuck on doing pretty much the same as you were trying to accomplish or have accomplished!
ok, where shall i start?!
the DVD is Amelie region 2 special edition
i'm trying to rip the main movie keeping all the extras (which is not quite hard as it's only a bunch of trailers). but the main movie is multi angle. or even better said, two angles. anyway, it's not limited to the start and end credits, but rather almost evenly spread over the whole movie. i've been reading through the thread several times now and it has helped me a great deal, but now, after ripping by vobid and encoding 44 vobids with CCE (man i love dif4u, without it i think i would have gone crazy doing this) i'm stuck on reauthoring. basically i have to admit i'm totally lost. no clue how to go further... well almost at least :) i've tried reauthoring it in the following way. i've loaded the 44 vobid mpvs and the 88 ac3 pieces into scenarist. now if i get this right, i have to load each segment seperately, add the according audio files and the 3 (!!) sub streams. well quite a lot of work i'd say, so befor i go on doing this (i've done the first 7 pieces (of 44), i want to know if this is going to yield the results i want!

after putting all the pieces together i'd have 44 pieces i'd have to put together in the scenario editor. now will i get the right results (meaning original DVD structure) by adding all pieces together that there's one VTS, one PGC and 44 Programs and 44 Cells (remember i ripped by vob and not cell id, although it seems to me that they are equal anyway), or do i just want one program and 44 cells? i am definitely confused and unfortunately do not have the time to reauthor this just to find out afterwards that i've done a simple mistake in the beginning!

two more thing i have no clue about:
1) the subtitles. i have selected 3 streams, the german one, the french one and the german one for hearing impaired (which i'm currently considering to totally leave out). now the problem is that Dif4u hasn't created a folder for each stream for every vobid. now i'm wondering if scenarist is going to map the subs correctly if i only add the subs that i have. it would look like this: vobid 1: 3 sub streams 1,2,3; vobid 2: only one stream 3, vobid 3: only one stream 3, vobid 4; 1,2,3 again... so do i have to add dummy files?
2) the chapters: i know (from the ifo) that the chapter points are alwawys equal with a certin vobid, but it's not like every vobid equals one chapter... so how do i include the chapters at the right positions?

if you need any additional infos please tell me...
thanks for any hints /help etc in advance
steVe

edit: some news: i've just spotted some (maybe) important information in ifoedit, while looking at the ifo: it seems to me that every chapter equals one program chain... so for example chapter 01 equal program 01 and contains cells 1 to 10 whereas cell 3, 6 and 9 are the 2nd angle for 2, 5 and 8, chapter 02 is equal to program 02 and just contains cell 11... man i'm seriously confused now :confused:


edit: little update: unfortunately it didn't work the way i did it. after piecing the whole thing together to look like the original ifo file, it played fine at first, but was still repeating both angles... so it first played the vobid of angle 1 and then the vobid of angle 2... no idea why it did that! ):

[influenza]

maybe you can send me your ifo file by mail influenza@influenza.speedlinq.nl

We'll figure it out then

[killingspree]

thanks email is sent!

steVe

[influenza]

Ok what do we have. We only have one pgc, so that's going to save work. And we have some angles.

What you should do is the following create tracks from your assets is scenarist. For all the vobids that represent chapter 2 you do not make a seperate track. In stead you go to the track repesenting angle one and add a angle using the button in scenarist (little camera button) and drag the video of angle 2 on it. plus you add the audio and subtitles to this track (only the audio and subtitles of angle one).

For the cells that represent a chapter (for example vobid 1): drag them directly to the pgc symbol in your layout. For the cells that do not represent (for example vobid 4) drag them to the chapter symbol of your previous chapter. For the tracks with two angles 2 vobids will be created automatically.

Hope this helps but feel free to ask!

[killingspree]

thanks for your quick reply... but honestly i'm still a bit confused!
but see below:
Originally posted by influenza

What you should do is the following create tracks from your assets is scenarist. For all the vobids that represent chapter 2 you do not make a seperate track. In stead you go to the track repesenting angle one and add a angle using the button in scenarist (little camera button) and drag the video of angle 2 on it. plus you add the audio and subtitles to this track (only the audio and subtitles of angle one).

i think i did that, IF you didn't mean "represent chapter 2, but angle 2, which would make much more sense! :)

For the cells that represent a chapter (for example vobid 1): drag them directly to the pgc symbol in your layout. For the cells that do not represent (for example vobid 4) drag them to the chapter symbol of your previous chapter. For the tracks with two angles 2 vobids will be created automatically.

hmmm... it seems to me that i did that... i dropped vobid 1 and 11 and so on on the PGC, so they created 1 program box and 1 cell box. then i took for example track two, which contains vobid 2 as angle 1 and vobid 3 as angle two and dropped it on the program square (the one below the PGC one). this created a cellblock squre on the same hight as the first cell, and below a cell for each angle... and so on and on... hmm

anyway... i'm not sure about anything atm, so i decided to take the liberty and mail you two screenshots of parts of scnearist, one with the exact error message and one with the scenario editor window... hope you don't mind
once again thanks for your time, your help is greatly appreciated
steVe

[influenza]

I meant angle ofcourse.

From your screenshots: you have added vobid2 two times. You can do this. But then both your angles will be the same. If you add vobid3 as angle two your structure will be the same as your original.

Except for that your structure looks ok.

How did you encode your angle vobids? With angles in cce you have to check restict auto I frame insertion and close all gops (under gop button).

If you did not do this then delete your vaf file and reencode with this settings (only the angle vobids)

[killingspree]

ahm, well, i have no idea why, but i just reauthored the whole project and now it is working... now i just have to add the subs and remux the vobs, then i should be fine

edit: i of course encoded with the close all gops and restrict I frame insertion option. you won't think how much reading i've done in the doom9 guides lately :) i've gotten my DVD burner only a week ago and that was exactly when i started backing up DVDs... well i guess the 'investment' has paid off :D

thanks for your help influenza,
as somebody else said already your knownledge is gigantic!

steVe

[influenza]

I'm glad I could help. Too bad I don't know how to post a screenshot here. Posting a screenshot of your ifo layout would help other people too :p

[killingspree]

you can't post screenshots because attachments are currently disabled because of a server problem. the admins are currently working on fixing this status so it should hopefully soon be possible again.

about making it available for others: i'm currently talking to doom9 about putting all the pieces of knownledge i've gotten from you and found out myself by searching around into a branch of one of the existing guides, so perhaps other people can soon read through a seamless multiangle guide :)

thanks for your help once again
steVe

[influenza]

I will hopefully write an button over video guide this week myself. It seems that a lot of people strugle with this.

About the screenshots: every now and then I see screenshots in posts, so it should be possible:confused:

[influenza]

@Coona: I've finished my guide and sent it to doom9 (so hopefully he thinks it's good enough to post it). If you want it, please message me and I'll send it. Maybe you can review it to see if it's clear enough?

[coona]

Great :). Send it to coona@email.cz, please. I´ll take a look at it.