What are the best analogue capture cards... at the moment?

[ooops!]

I know that this question may have been asked many times before.

But are there any 'home use' capture cards avilable yet that will allow you to capture PAL analogue TV (direct to your PC) at 25fps using a full 720x576 frame size (same as miniDV). Outputting either as an AVI (massive!) or Mpeg file.

I am aware that there are high spec capture cards and equipment for 'business users'. But I am not up to speed with how the technology has moved on for 'home use'.

Too much time playing with work toys and not enough time playing with home toys, keeps this boy out of the real world!

[jggimi]

12) ...Do not ask "what's best" because this question cannot be answered objectively.... (http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm) But even the cheapest recent model cards plugged into a recent model home PC can capture at that rate, using the proper compression.

[FredThompson]

Look at what I posted just a few before your question.

If you don't care about picture quality, any of the cards will do.

If you want sand, concrete, water, Caucasian skin or any other subtle light surfaces, you're out of luck with a cheap capture card. I've used ATI All-in-Wonder cards for years and they can NEVER be properly tuned to echo what you'll see on a regular TV. The same is true of other cards. Actually, this is also true of the near-black parts of a picture.

If you want "the best", companies like Canopus will gladly provide you a card that captures properly, at a price. You'll also be buying a device for multi-layered realtiem effects.

The reason the ADS device I mentioned costs so little, comparatively, is it uses a standard MPEG-2 compression chip to keep costs down. Support circuitry for USB is also very cheap. Anything you stick inside your computer has to fight a huge amount of electrical interference inside the box.

[ooops!]

My apologies then.

Unfortunately your 'this link' is dead.

I have tried using ATI All-In-Wonder cards in the past. But when capturing analogue, even as an AVI file, the quality was not as good as I had expected. Dropped frames, poor colour correction, lack of detail, max frame capture size 640x480 etc.

I have to admit this was a couple of years ago and the technology has moved on.

After all we now have mid-range miniDV camcorders that can capture analogue and encode to digital as an 720x576 AVI file. And Sony have their very own microMV camcorder that can capture analogue video and encode straight to Mpeg2 - so at least we know the chipset designs have moved on!

I really would welcome some up to date info. Too many maufacturers brag that their cards capabilities. But when used in the real world don't come up with the goods.

[ooops!]

Thanks Fred

You have confirmed my suspicions that capturing analogue has not moved on that much, when using a PCI card (or AGP A-I-W Pro).

I had not really thought about using an external box. But as you say, with the advent of USB2 these things should work well now.

I would obviously like to capture straight to Mpeg2 as the file sizes are considerably smaller to work with. And if you say the quality of the Mpeg2 encodes are good it might be worth giving ADS device a go.

I'll check out to see if it's available in the UK. And if it is I just hope it can capture at 720x576 @ 25fps.

[FredThompson]

I'll be durned, you're right. Just checked it and the site isn't working properly right now.

You can see a picture and price on the home page http://www.tigerdirect.com/ but the link isn't working.

ADS home page: http://www.adstech.com/

tech suppport for Instant DVD: http://www.adstech.com/support/techsupport/techsupport.asp?product_id=USBAV-700&type=domestic

Instant DVD forum: http://pub9.ezboard.com/fpyro1394frm8

There ARE good internal capture cards but expect quite a hefty price. Oh, you might also want to look at the Canopus ADVC-100 for DV conversion. Still, more expensive and larger DV files.

My camcorder does pass-through conversion to DV and it's not that bad. It's also a heck of a lot more expensive. Can't comment on the quality of Sony's MPEG-2 on the fly but I'm a little skeptical. That's not the main use of a camcorder. Also, even though the camcorder has a flat bottom, it's really not as stable as the Instant DVD and my VCR is on a shelf. I'd rather buy a $150 (at the time) dedicated device than break the camcorder.

Yes, you can do full D1 PAL with the device. If you have a true multi-format VCR you could also properly work with NTSC source. I've noticed lots of VCRs in Europe say they're work with NTSC stuff. My guess is they screw with the image the same way the dedicated "conversion" machines do when I try to convert PAL to NTSC. That's one of the reasons I got the Instant DVD. With computer editing, you're better off getting the complete stream then you can crop and change framerate as you wish. The dedicated machines always screw up.

Oh, there's a wonderful PAL<->NTSC script here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=35387

[FredThompson]

Well, this is interesting. I just poked through the board and it appears there is a new version of the device which includes a DV interface and it will do direct conversion from DV. Probably worth poking around their site a little bit. (edit: nope, no DV interface)
Here's a link to the product page: http://www.adstech.com/products/USBAV702/intro/usb702intro.asp?pid=USBAV702

Apparently, there will be some sort of upgrade program announced soon.

I'm not sure what they mean by "audio lock" unless the new device now includes an audio sampler. Lots of people had problems with the 1.0 version because the computers they used weren't really powerful enough of the sound card wouldn't sync. That's not really a problem with the device but it did create a hassle for people who wanted a cheap all-in-one without understanding what is really required to work with video.

[ooops!]

Fred, this is great info. Just what I need.

I too have tried captures thru' a digi cam, but was a little worried that progonged use might damage it.

But it is handy, that when using this method, the audio is converted too.

When it comes to converting analogue audio. Have you ever tried using an analogue to digital converter. I purchased one some time ago as an experiment for my VCR (which unfortunately can't transcode).

I now use this 'amazing little beauty' to convert all manner of analogue audio signals. Mine has selectable 44.1/44.0kHz sampling and outputs both optically and electrically at the same time. Just the thing if you have a capable sound card or surround sound amp!

[FredThompson]

I use iMic (http://www.griffintechnology.com) Actually, have two of them and, if ADS has sampling built into the 2.0 version and will do upgrades, one will be available to trade ;)

You might also be interested in this: http://konstant.freeshell.org/ oh, and there are some VHS-specific filters also, look under AVI - VirtualDub on my links page.

FWIW, I'm working on a complete how-to (my way) showing VHS->CVD with an emphasis on quality. (There's a lot of...uh...uninformed..."guides" out there.)

Oh, I've also found a free VST noise gate just last night. It's not on the links list yet but here's the URL: http://www.digitalelements.be/download.htm

Use it with Audacity and you've got a totally free way to remove some of the tape noise. Granted, it's not as powerful as something like Dart to remove hiss but it IS free.

[FredThompson]

OK, yes, the new Instant DVD 2.0 has integrated sound capture. Woohoo!!!

http://pub9.ezboard.com/fpyro1394frm8.showMessageRange?topicID=650.topic&start=21&stop=26

Quote:

"We hope everyone will like it. We have worked to include most every thing that we heard on people’s wish list.
The important thing is that it is much easier to install, no audio via sound card, audio synch is right on and video quality is super!
Tons of enhancements went into this new device and into the software applications as well."

Full list price is $199USD

I have no idea what upgrade options will be available nor what "street" prices might be.

[ooops!]

You're so lucky on that side of the Atlantic. You get to play with all these toys first.

By the time we get them, they are six months old and have been superseeded by yet another device that we have to wait another six months for, etc, etc.

And as for being able to upgrade your old devices. You've got to be kidding. I've got a house full of old electronic apparatus. About the only useful device, I got out of one of my cupboards the other day, was a ten year old sync inserter. And I built that myself!

Happy days eh!

[FredThompson]

This is very true, but primarily in the U.S., not Canada. Right now, I've got 1000 blank CDRs in my office. All were purchased with full rebates. It's not uncommon for CDRW drives, keyboards, etc. to have a full rebate. In the past month, I've picked up 7 256M PC2100 DDRs at full rebate. Don't have a use for all of them, got caught up in the moment.

The Canadians, apparently, don't have this even though they have most of the same stores (with different names in Quebec ;))

Sometimes tech leapfrogs, though. We had lots of phones before Europe but you've got more advanced cell tech.

I'm in Northern Italy a lot and really marvel at how much more stuff we tend to have. Don't know if it's cultural or what. I suspect part of it is the sheer size of the market and the economy of scale that brings.

[FredThompson]

FOr anyone who's following this and wondering about upgrading to the 2.0 hardware:

Quote from ADS sales:

Make sure you register at our website. Make sure you OPT-IN to get email updates. You will get an offer from us over the next week or so. Thanks.

[jggimi]

And you're right, my link was broken. I think it was supposed to point to the Capture FAQ, where there is some discussion and links regarding capture hardware.

[Ookami]

Next time someone ask the "What's best" question I'll ask the same person "What's the best car?" and close the thread until I get an answer to that one.

For the n-th time!

There is no best card! I depends on your time, knowledge, money, planned usage etc.!

You must describe what you want, and then maybe (!) someone can recommend you something.

Examples:
---------

Wrong:

I want to convert my VHS tapes, what's the best card?

Right:

I have 200$, I am experienced hardware freak and DMA, IRQ etc. mean something to me, also I would not like to use a GPU for capturing since I buy every few months a new one. So, my question is what is a recommandable capture card (PCI), wich has no big problems with bad signals (old VHS tapes etc., I am aware that without a TBC there will be always more or less problems). I've read the FAQ, done a search engine search, read most of the threads here and even looked at the DVDRhelp link.

Thank you for your time and help.

Ok, the spelling should/could be better in the "right" example, but everyone should get the point.

Cheers,

Mijo "who's tired of the what's best talk' Rebic.

[FredThompson]

Hey,

I just learned how to really make you mad.

Gotta stuff that knowledge away for some time when it might come in handy. ;)

[Ookami]

Originally posted by FredThompson
Hey,

I just learned how to really make you mad.

Gotta stuff that knowledge away for some time when it might come in handy. ;)

LOL No, I'm not mad, just annoyed. As some questions should really be answered by the one who asks the question. Not to mention that most people don't write what they want to do, what they expect etc.

BTW, Fred, how's the work on your new list? I'm working on my quite heavily... You probably saw the thread in General disc.

Cheers,

Mijo.

[FredThompson]

I've spun off in another direction. Kind of burned out on that kind of list. I still think about it, just need something a little different right now before I tackle that one.

Right now I'm looking at sources for free textures, fonts, and audio. There's some really nice stuff out there. Maybe people don't want to spend $200 for a CD with textures to use as backgrounds. Well, how about 5 freely usable samples from (edit: each of) 60 different commercial libraries, especially if there's a directory? That would be cool. Some have panoramic images, too. If I can figure out a way to generate an AVI of a panning frame on a panorama it might make a really cool background for an animated menu.

Also toying with some other stuff. I put a post up about non-linear editors and found a few more tonight. (Had to be up all night to call your continent from mine. Now my brain and eyes are tired but the body is waking up.)

I'm also looking for a free Linux that will run in a Windows window and have it run Heroine Warrior Cinelerra. (Uh...I know what I meant to say) If I can figure out how to make this work, we'll have the capability of Adobe Premiere for free. That would be cool.

so, basically, I had to stay up all night for work and just played.

[FredThompson]

Hey, oopsie-daisy,

Check your private messages.

[ooops!]

Well Ookami. People like you make me annoyed.

I asked 'what are the best' as in plural. That means many!
I did not ask 'what's best' as in singular. That means one!

@Quick to judge, quick to anger. Slow to understand'

[Ookami]

Originally posted by ooops!
Well Ookami. People like you make me annoyed.

I asked 'what are the best' as in plural. That means many!
I did not ask 'what's best' as in singular. That means one!

@Quick to judge, quick to anger. Slow to understand'

Doesn't change a thing. Re-read your first posting, then you'll maybe understand... Or maybe you're too slow? :rolleyes:

You come here asking for help, instead of writing exactly what you want, with much more infos, after it has been said dozens (probably hundred) times, you still have enough time to start to argue with a Moderator, but still not enough time to write what you want...

So, rule 12 still applies and now your also broken a few others. Way to go...

Whatever, do what you want I will not waste my time on unthankfull people.

Good night,

Mijo.

[jggimi]

And, before this discussion degrades any further than it already has, this thread is closed.