The Matrix Reloaded

[ppera2]

Originally posted by ultimatebilly
Well, I think spoilers means in this context rather people who tell how the movie ended, and not if they liked it or not...
And I definitively don't want to know how it ends before I saw it!:scared:

It's known well that Matrix Reloaded is in fact only half of second part of Matrix sequel - they said that don't surprise that you feel it's incomplete - Matrix Revolution will continue the story of second part. Therefore is probably relatively short time between 2 parts premiere.

Btw. on www.imdb.com word spoiler has exact meaning - things which aren't good in movie.

[Mole]

I just saw the movie and I agree that it's a bit bloated.

For instance, a kung fu scene was totally unnecessary and the explanation for it was so laughable.

Oh, and the dancing scene also looked totally out of place and seems like it's sole purpose was to make the movie longer.

The car chase scene was good, but that too could have been cut to half.

In fact, if we summarize the plot, it could have probably been less than 30 minutes of screen time.

Instead of making Reloaded and Revolutions two separate movies, they should have just made it into one movie.

It also reminded me of the movie "13 Floor". It wouldn't surprise me if Revolutions has similar revelations as in 13 Floor.

[wmansir]

When I say spoilers I mean information that would spoil (or ruin) your viewing experience if you haven't seen the movie yet. A classic example being if I told you Vader was Luke's father before you saw Empire Strikes Back (I'll assume everyone knows this). Or if I told you the end of The Six Sense before you saw it (some may not know so I won't say). Knowing these things would influence how you look at the film the first time, and at the very least lessen the emotional impact of their revelation.

On a movie site forum I frequent a recent thread was stared "Your worst spoiler experience" and people posted them. The most frustrating was for someone to be waiting in a long line on opening night of a big film (one person said ESB, another Six Sense) and someone from an eariler showing comes out of the theater, walking past the line of people waiting to see the movie, they start a conversation with their friends "I can't beleive Vader was Luke's father....." and everyone waiting to see the movie gets very upset. I'm not extremely uptight about spoilers, but this would make me want to punch someone.

[Mole]

You must be kidding me! Vader is Luke's father? Damn... now I understand what Episode I and II was all about.... :D

wmansir is right about the term "spoiler".

ppera2 I don't see anywhere on IMDB which exactly says that "spoiler" means what you were thinking.

I think you've just misunderstood when people write [spoiler] blah blah [end of spoiler] to mean that they're criticizing the movie. What it really means is that if anyone who hasn't seen the movie yet and don't want to know critical parts of the plot, should not read the comment.

It certainly doesn't mean "things which aren't good in movie", which would be very subjective. Something one person might think as bad, somebody else might think it's splendid.

But the term "spoiler" is exactly what wmansir said.

[thop]

Another movie where spoiling the ending can ruin the whole experience is The Hours.
BTW. why aren't you revealing the ending of Sixth Sense? Everyone know the little boy is in fact an alien! :confused:

[Lord Sandwich]

I don't think the unresolved ending in Reloaded is the problem; you could, for instance, end the first Matrix just when Morpheus is about to succumb to Smith and it still would've been a great experience up to that point. Reloaded on the other hand was filled with yawns and groaners from the opening sequence; if you're like me, you'll be begging for the movie to end whether they answer your questions or not.

This review pretty much sums it up for me (spoilers!):

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030515/ap_on_en_mo/wkd_film_review_matrix_reloaded_3

At least there's still that other Hugo Weaving film to look forward to. :D

[int 21h]

Qualifying what I'm about to type with: I loved the first Matrix. I saw it in the theatre 7 times, it was the first DVD I ever purchased, it was the first DVD I learned how to backup, it was the DVD that a lot of SBC encoding technology was developed and perfected (by nando) on.

I loved it. I thought it was amazing and so many more interesting things have become apparent from various events throughout the movie. I am definitely going back tomorrow for another show.

But hey, what can I say, I'm a big fan of the entire Matrix universe and the various subplots that are now running their course.

The flip side of the coin is, Sequels almost always set you up for disappointment. And I can completely understand if you didn't enjoy this one nearly as much as the first, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Except in Soviet Russia, where the movie watches you... almost forgot...

Step 3) Profit!

[nikthebak]

Originally posted by wmansir
A classic example being if I told you Vader was Luke's father before you saw Empire Strikes Back (I'll assume everyone knows this).

That was in The Simpsons, in one of the flashback episodes. Homer walks out of a movie theater in the 80's, and yells "I can't believe Darth Vader was Luke's father!" in front of a huge crowd waiting for entrance to the movie :D

I'm a bit sceptical about the Matrix sequels for several reasons, with one of them being that Monica Bellucci has the tendency to turn any movie into softcore porn...

And what kind of Great Plot Revelations(tm) can you make in a Matrix sequel? The greatest of them all was already made in the first part!

[thop]

Originally posted by nikthebak
Monica Bellucci has the tendency to turn any movie into softcore porn...
Blasphemy!

[wmansir]

Originally posted by nikthebak

I'm a bit sceptical about the Matrix sequels for several reasons, with one of them being that Monica Bellucci has the tendency to turn any movie into softcore porn...You don't know how right you are. A couple of her scenes had a sexual element that I found unnecessary.


And what kind of Great Plot Revelations(tm) can you make in a Matrix sequel? The greatest of them all was already made in the first part! There are definitely major revelations, but they are not fully explained so I'm not sure "how deep the rabbit hole goes". They will change how you view the first movie. Depending on which direction they go it could enhance the story of the original or undermined it.

It could be like 'Aliens 3' where the movie starts out with everyone who survived 'Aliens' dead except Ripley. I couldn't help thinking "This sequel has just skullf****d the last movie" when watching Aliens 3. Or it could be like ESB where knowing about Vader gives 'Star Wars' a different spin.

EDIT: rabbit hole, no whole.

[rmatei]

(Forgive the ranting nature of this post, I am still digesting everything. No spoilers.)


Originally posted by nikthebak
And what kind of Great Plot Revelations(tm) can you make in a Matrix sequel? The greatest of them all was already made in the first part!

Wrong. And that's what makes Reloaded so damn great. I think it's better than the first one, and I mean this honestly, after having slept on it for 24h.

I loved the pacing. The first third or so has been called slow, but it made me admire the Wachowskis all the more - this is not average Hollywood. It's moody, dark and ominous. You need this atmospheric piece to set up the tone of Zion and the events for the rest of the movie. It's then followed by some INCREDIBLE, stylishly choreographed and shot action sequences. The last third brings Major Revelations (tm), but they're not forced or cheesy. The superlative action is surpassed only by the expansive plot.

I'd say that this one messes with your mind more than the first one, and this is from someone who knows the universe of the original inside and out. But being the middle part, this doesn't need to wrap things up neatly. It gives you a glimpse of just how deep the rabbit-hole is; unlike the first one, you don't see the end of it.

Though it was written in a trilogy, Matrix didn't have any guaranteed sequels, so it needed to have a sense of closure. All the loose ends were tied at the end of it, which is one of the reasons why it's a less challenging and less interesting experience than Reloaded. This one's truly a mind-fuck, and the third one will need to bring some major revelations. In many ways, this is shaping up to be the Empire Strikes Back of the Matrix trilogy.

I'll see it again this weekend to absorb it some more. FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the first one, I didn't admire its pseudo-philosophizing, I hate action movies, I've been called a borderline film snob. Yes, this has some cheesy, self-conscious dialogue, and some of the action is over-the-top by normal standards. But within this stylized world, it all fits together into an immensely satisfying experience.

9/10



Even Ebert, who isn't too kind to summer blockbusters, rated it higher than the first. As usual, he's very right (http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/cst-ftr-matrix14f.html), more eloquently than me.

[Lord Sandwich]

Wow, the RM debate is far more interesting to me than the movie itself. I've never seen so many people completely divided over whether a blockbuster film was genius or crap!

Someone should put up a poll.

[Doom9]

there is no spoon....
I just came back from watching Matrix2 for the first time (there will undoubtedly be more as time goes by, both cinema wise as DVD wise) and yes, there was no clear cut ending but we got used to that after LOTR1, and certain scenes might have been a bit too much, yet I still loved it in its own unique way. I was kinda afraid that the whole love story element was going to ruin a good action flick but I was positively surprised. I think I have seen too many movies to not be very critical even about movies whose predecessors I loved, but the story twists definitely made this one interesting. On a codec comparison side of things, after having seen it once I think we have to wait for the shootout scene in Matrix3 to consider other test scenes.
Bottom line, yes it was a sequel with all the obvious drawbacks but I didn't regret a single cent I paid for the ticket, I will watch it again and I will most definitely get the DVD as soon as its out.

[waldok]

Yes, I saw it and all I have to say is ...pshhhh rrrrr pshhhh rrr...

Ooops sorry, I fell asleep again, just like during the movie...:devil:

Waldok:cool:

[ppera2]

I watched it yesterday - it started later in Hungary, probably due to audio dubbing.(Btw. ticket costs 2 to 3 €, while as I heard, in Germany is price 7.5-9 €). In theatre with good audio system.

I don't agree with people which says that film is bad, or that effects are not good. Film is for sure much better than todays average Hollywood movie. But it is not because it is great, but because standards are low today.

Pacing was perhaps good for people which wants only entertainment, but for me rave/sex scene in cave and too much kung-fu with stupid soundtrack was annoying and without any sense for story. Story - I think that they lost a bit - too much acter, it looks forced for me.

What was it what made first Matrix great movie (although I wouldn't put it between greatest movies)? In first place I would put that it had coherent and original story, all parts were logical and in place. Then: innovations in effects, fighting. Direction was good, without unnecessary grandiloquence.
In Reloaded it is often not case. Car chase scene was good and exciting, but we seen better directed ones.
My biggest complain is that movie would be much better if it would be shorter foe some 30-40 min. But then we coming to conclusion that there is no need for third part... And whole ending was made with too obvious intent to force people that watch sequel - I think that it was completely unnecessary, but we better should ask someone who invested hunderts of millions in it :)

[dTb]

Originally posted by Lord Sandwich
Wow, the RM debate is far more interesting to me than the movie itself. I've never seen so many people completely divided over whether a blockbuster film was genius or crap!


I wouldn't say the debate is more interesting than the movie but I agree that it's very interesting. Someone could practically write a thesis on the whole saga, "Hype and it's effect on the movie going public" or something like that.

Personally I thoroughly enjoyed Reloaded, I had no major expectations going into the film, just an open mind and I think that certainly helped. I might reserve my judgement till after a second viewing but I think it's equally as good as the first if not better.
I'm not really a critical cinema goer, I just let the movie take me for a ride and Reloaded was an exceptional one at that.
I lapped it all up and I just don't understand people saying you could have cut 30mins from the movie, I wanted more, more, more.:D

[Doobie]

The movie was a disappointment. It introduced a lot of minor characters that without giving us a reason to care about them. There was little tension in the fight scenes. Neo is superman who could could knock down even 100 Smiths without breaking a sweat. Even Trinity and Morpheous had little problem dealing with the bad programs (unlike the first movie where they could never win a fight).

The beginning of the first movie had us wondering what's going on (how is the person on the phone know everything that is happening). This was natural given the plot. The vagueness at the ending of the second movie is contrived and forced.

One other thing, I'll try not to spoil anything, but Neo's choice Trinity or Humanity, huh? How was humanity put in danger if Neo would choose Trinity? The choice in the first movie, to save Morpheous or himself made sense.

[int 21h]

Originally posted by Doobie
One other thing, I'll try not to spoil anything, but Neo's choice Trinity or Humanity, huh? How was humanity put in danger if Neo would choose Trinity? The choice in the first movie, to save Morpheous or himself made sense.

This paragraph reveals that you did not pay quite enough attention during the Architect scene. You can go back over that scene here: http://www.theantitrust.net/articles/viewarticle.php?articleid=108

WARNING: For anyone that hasn't scene the movie, that transcript obviously contains spoilers.

[Doobie]

Originally posted by int 21h This paragraph reveals that you did not pay quite enough attention during the Architect scene.

Actually, I cought that. I just don't see the urgency that creates the dilemma. (I'm being vague to try to avoid spoiling) Why was the system going to crash "now" instead of an hour later or a month later? This is a problem through the whole movie, there's not much of a feeling of tension.

[ppera2]

I wouldn't bother with seeking some serious and deep plot here...
It's only Rock An'Roll (or Rave or whatewer :) )

[killingspree]

ok,
i've seen it twice now. first the german dubbed version and then the original version. and i have to say that they seriously f***ed up the german one. i liked the german version first because the images were simply wonderfull and the language didn't matter too much in the tremendous fight scenes.
Anyway after seeing the english version i highly doubt that i'll watch the german version ever again. i know this is not an objective judgement. the dubbing was probably not badly made, not technically at least, but in comparison i just did not like it.

oh and the ending kinda sucks, both in german and english :-P

would i go to the movies watch it again? most definitely YES (:

steVe