CCE 2.67.00.10b reads YV12 (AVS wo ColorrspaceConversion)??

[TCD02]

Hi,
i installed CCE 2.67.00.10b an recognised, that an AVS Script wo any Color COnversion was read (Source is YV12).
Loading the same AVS in CCE 2.66.10.07 and starting Previw (TimeCode) brings up the failure "Could not find the appropriate Video Codec for 'YV12'".

Is it possible, that the 2.67 Version just uses a DirectShow Filter or another decoder to decode the Video (like TMPEG does sometimes, when using DivX.dll as a decoder, if the AVS doesn't convert to RGB24)???

Greets,
TCD

[RB]

Doesn't work for me. Check your registry in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Drivers32. Is there a value for VIDC.YV12 and if so, what is it?

[TCD02]

Hi,
in my registry ther isn't even an String with Vidc.YV12, i got all other necessary ones, but this ist missing (kind of strange).

I used 3 different AVS Scripts (not AVI Direct, beacause it will screw up the picture).

The exact CCE Version were CCE 2.66.10.07 and CCE 2.67.00.10b
The AviSynth Version was 2.51b


Audio is not killed.
No Colorspace Conversion.
Encoded only Video or encoded Video & Audio (Elementary Stream).

avisource("D:\DVD\Burn\Feuer.avi")
AddBorders(0,104,0,104)
Trim(10000,-1500)

It worked fine in CCE 2.67 in CCE 2.66 Error (...find Codec 'YV12').
Question: Since there is no VidC.YV12 what the hell makes the Colorspace Conversion, CCE 2.67 itself????


Audio is Killed.
No Colorspace Conversion.

avisource("D:\DVD\Burn\Feuer.avi", false)
AddBorders(0,104,0,104)
Trim(10000,-1500)

It worked fine in CCE 2.67.
In CCe 2.66 it didn't work due to no Colorspace Conversion, i think:Error (...find Codec 'YV12').
But again, what makes the Conversion in 2.67???


Audio is killed.
ColorConversion made with "ConverttoYUY2".

avisource("D:\DVD\Burn\Sam1.avi", false)
AddBorders(0,94,0,94)
Trim(10000,-1500)
ConvertToYuY2

This is the only Script that worked in both Versions, CCE 2.66 and CCE 2.67!!!


This is really strange.
If anyone can explain this or report anything else, pleas do so.

Greets,
TCD

[Doom9]

hmm.. has CCE ever had problems with AVI input? I think you should try with a dvd2avi project file frameserved via mpeg2dec3.dll and avisynth 2.51

[TCD02]

Hi,
this is what i do with MPEG2 Source (eg.DVDs, etc)..

I will do a test with an MPEG2Source, AviSynth 2.51, MPEGDecoder_YV12 and CCE 2.67..

Is my guess right, that if this would work, the CCE 2.67 would decode the YV12 itself??

Greets,
TCD

[TCD02]

Hi,
while using the upper config, i get a green screen in AviSynth Editor 0.4.
AVS Script:

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\_Media\Video\Coding\AviSynth\AviSynth 2.51\PluginLoad\MPEGDecoder_YV12\mpegdecoder.dll")
mpegsource("D:\Afrika\vts_01.d2v")
SeparateFields()
LanczosResize(448,152,2,36,716,216).Weave()
AddBorders(16,136,16,136)

As soon as i include "ConvertToYUY2" i get a picture.
This is just experimental.
I can use MPEG2DEC3.dll, but i just wanted to give a try to the MPEGDECODER_YV12.dll (for further use).

the Mediaplayer plays it, bcause hei uses a directShow Filter, i guess.

Du you know why?

[Doom9]

WMP will use whatever YV12 decoder it can find.. it looks like one is installed on your system. Can you try mpeg2dec3.dll? I suppose it doesn't change things but it's better to have tried it just in case.

[TCD02]

Oh,
i already did.
With MPEG2DEC3.DLL i meanwhile get a green Picture in AvySynth Editor without using a Color Conversion.

But i remember it working with the MPEG3DEC3.dll!?!

I'll reboot for sure.

[Doom9]

hmm... I tried it myself using an avs originally used for the codec comparison.. it's encoding now.

@update: it encoded ok, but the output was more blue than anything else :/

[TCD02]

Oh, well, i'm sorry 4 the pm.

Seemes i forgot who you are (Mod), when i wrote the PM...

[RB]

I'm pretty sure both of you have some codec installed that does a (crappy) YV12 decoding and somehow CCE picks that one up. I really don't think CCE 2.67.00.10 now has YV12 decoding capabilities as was posted in the Doom9 news today, otherwise I'm sure they'd put a "Try decoding in YV12 format" option on the Misc. options tab also.

I do not have any DivX/XviD/other codecs installed (honestly) and when I load an AVS into CCE that decodes from DVD VOBs and does not have a ConvertToYUY2() at the end, I get the "Couldn't find appropriate video codec for 'YV12'" error message 100% of the time.

[TCD02]

I really don't think CCE 2.67.00.10 now has YV12 decoding capabilities as was posted in the Doom9 news today, otherwise I'm sure they'd put a "Try decoding in YV12 format" option on the Misc. options tab also.

Or/And they'd put a hint in the changelog

I just wrote exactly the same in the german forum.
I think this is the most logical explanation.

http://forum.doom9.de/showthread.php?s=&postid=2745

If it picks up a decoder ist true, why or how dfferent behaves Version 2.67 from former Versions??

I heard about TMPEG picking up a decoder, but CCE never did bevor!!

Gretts,
TCD

P.S: Before i read your post, i thought about CCE 2.67.00.10 beeing still in beta state could be another reason, especially because i've never seen any post/statement/... why this release has been published in beta...

[Doom9]

@RB: Well.. I have both DivX5 and XviD installed.. and you have to have either of 'em since otherwise you can't even stay in YV12 mode for DivX/XviD encoding. But due to the recent codec comparison the pc might contains some unwanted software.. I'll try an older CCE version tonight and perform the test again on my other computer when I go home over the week-end (that one is free of crappy installations and contains only a minimum set of programs)

But divx/xvid cannot be the reason why encoding works now because I've always had either of them installed and using previous CCE versions I got the same error as you mentioned.

[RB]

@Doom9: thanks, looking forward to results.

[DDogg]

Xvid would not work as a handler when I did the vidc.YV12 = xvid.dll trick sometime ago. This was reported. Further, there was a considerable and obvious speed difference from CCE when Divx was used (vidc.yv12=divx.dll) and the ConvertToYUY2 statement. The convert was much faster, so a quick timing of a script with and without the ConvertToYUY2 statement should indicate whether it would make any sense to use an internal YV12 handler even if it was supported without the specific registry statement.

[Doom9]

Alright.. I installed v 2.67.00.09b besides 10b and guess what.. when I try to set my source range in 09b(it opens a preview window) I get the well-known "couldn't find appropriate video codec for YV12" error, when I do the same in 10b I get a normal preview and all the colors are in order. So Cinemacraft did indeed change something between those two versions.

[TCD02]

Originally posted by Doom9
Alright.. I installed v 2.67.00.09b besides 10b and guess what.. when I try to set my source range in 09b(it opens a preview window) I get the well-known "couldn't find appropriate video codec for YV12" error, when I do the same in 10b I get a normal preview and all the colors are in order. So Cinemacraft did indeed change something between those two versions.


@edit:
I always had both installed, but i think, that this doesn't implicitly lead up to the conclusion that they icluded a YV12 Decode ...could be though.
It indeed leads to the conlcusion that sthg. was changed or just not finalized...eg. because of the beta state, he really grabs an external decoder

If i had a lot time (i 'll have graduate exams next week) i would adjust a few of my VirtualMachines, to test the different Settings and installments.

What do you think about asking Cinemacraft, about a "possible detected YV12 Decode"???


Greets,
TCD

[RB]

Well, I really have no idea why it's working for you guys :) At least I now know for sure that it must be some external codec because yesterday I sent email to support@cinemacraft.com and got the following reply:

From: Sanae Kojima <kojima@cinemacraft.com>
Subject: Re: YV12 input support for CCE SP
Message-Id: <20030508062519.5C48.KOJIMA@cinemacraft.com>

Hello,

Thank you for your interests in our product.

> are there any plans to add support for decoding YV12 to CCE SP,
> without the need for an external codec?

We are sorry that we have no plan for now.

Best regards,

Sanae Kojima <kojima@cinemacraft.com>

So, at least, is it any faster than with a ConvertToYUY2() in the script? Are both of you decoding from an AVI source or from a DVD2AVI project file?

Well, I can see in the change log that they did modify something related to finding a decompressor for the input video (using the ICLocate VfW function after ICOpen fails). I'll try to put together a small test program that will open your AVS file using the same functions so we can find out what decompresser is really called ... but I'll only do this if decoding is really faster now with your "mysterious" YV12 decoding :)

[Doom9]

well.. internal or not internal doesn't really matter.. since DVDs are in YV12 format and we do have a noticeable speed advantage in divx/xvid encoding staying in YV12 using either codec to decode the same should apply to other encoding chains where no colorspace conversions is required.

and of course, since I told tcd02 to use a dvd2avi project I did of course use the same ;) Yet, since we have positively established that CCE does not internally decode YV12 it's reasonable to assume that one of my installed filters does it, which means you have to install divx or xvid anyway. So far I have no performed any performance testing and since I'm constantly busy using the computer I don't know when I can leave the PC unattended for such a test.

[RB]

Thanks. It should be enough to encode a short clip (use Trim in the AVISynth script) like two minutes or so at CBR in CCE to see whether encoding is any faster.

[TCD02]

cause i have the scripts all set, i'll run the tests...

[Doom9]

I tried b10 with 2 different xvid versions installed and b09 with the color conversion. The result for 20k frames is that there's no noticeable speed difference. So the only nice thing about the new version is that you are no longer forced to add an extra line to your avisynth script.

[TCD02]

The Results:
Below ypu can find the detailed Setup plus the 2(4 w conversion) Scrips i used.
First column ist the max Speed Rate, second column ist the visual Average after CCE spinned up to max (2000 Frames).


XSVCD AVS converted: 0.88 0.87
XSVCD CCE converted: 0.78 0.78

SVCD AVS converted: 1.14 1.14
SVCD CCE converted: 1.04 1.04

Well for me in CBR (where the speed factor is little less than in a pass of the 2pass modes (??)) the AVS without conversion was slower then the the AVS with Conversion. However the clips all looked the same (except f. the resolution)..
No failure at all.



Source:
First i chose 2501 Frames Clips, but it turned out to be to short, because it took the CCE 1500-2500 Frames to "spin-up":
Source was PAL interlaced, included Operations to retain the Fields in AVS; used Lanczos Resizing and standard cropp.
Used 2 different Destination Formats: 704*576 and 480*576
Script:


Settings:
Standard Matrix
DC Precision 9 and Non-linear Quantscale
VBR Bias: 30
1 Pass CBR 2520 (w Video an Video Information File)
Encoded Interlaced with Alternate Block Scanning Order
Low Pass Filter Off
Effect restricted vertikal Filter off
Dithered Quant Off
Quantizer Caracteristics 17:
...


AVS Script SVCD

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth\AviSynth 2.51\PluginLoad\MPEG2DEC3\mpeg2dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\Afrika\vts_01.d2v",iPP=true)
SeparateFields()
LanczosResize(480,160,0,37,720,214).Weave()
AddBorders(0,128,0,128)
Trim(20000,-4000)


AVS Script SVCD

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth\AviSynth 2.51\PluginLoad\MPEG2DEC3\mpeg2dec3.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\Afrika\vts_01.d2v",iPP=true)
SeparateFields()
LanczosResize(704,160,4,36,712,216).Weave()
AddBorders(0,128,0,128)
Trim(20000,-4000)

P.S.: Have you ever seen an interlaced DVD Source with ZigZag Block scanning Order??

[lucindrea]

my cce decodes yv12 and has never complained ( i didnt even relize it was a problem till i decided to offload some cce stuff on another system ) .. after looking at my registry i noticed that it uses ATIYUV12.DLL for the vidc.yv12 key ... this is part of my ati video capture card ( useing ver 7.1 of ATI's software ) .. one thing i have noticed is that cce has been alot slower than expected for the last 6 months ( about as long as i've had the ATI card ) .. ben getting speeds of 0.51 in cce and i have a dual cpu amd board .. so i'm going to try it with the convertto.. line in my avs script and see what the speed of that is.

[lucindrea]

ok this is what i've found ...

the avi dll and the dvix dll are about the same speed.
ConvertToYUV2() is defenitly faster
here is another quirk i figured out .. options in CCE the try to decode in YUY2 option .. with it on i get a decent speed ( 1.5 ) with it NOT checked off i get 0.7 speed .. i have no idea what this option does in cce .. but needless to say i'm leaving it checked.
I still expect sightly faster speeds from this system but for now i can live with it as it is now.

BTW useing cce 2.66

[Gant]

this sounds interesting... i was wanting to test it too... but when i go to download page it only appears 2.66 in visible light or the upgrade... this refered upgrade does not upgrade my trial/demo version 2.66.00.07. :(

It always outputs an error saying it did not found the folder, even thought tne folder is there... and in case you're wondering... NO i did not hack/crack/whatever my demo of 2.66.00.07... so, and hopping it is not illegal to ask this... where is the demo of 2.67 for download?

Thnaks in advanced,

Gant

[TCD02]

Originally posted by Gant
this sounds interesting... i was wanting to test it too... but when i go to download page it only appears 2.66 in visible light or the upgrade... this refered upgrade does not upgrade my trial/demo version 2.66.00.07. :(

Thnaks in advanced,

Gant

I had the same failure, when dl the 2.66 Version, disabling my firewall solved the problem....

The Version 2.67 you will have to dl from the japan site...
its sthg. like www.cinemacraft.com/jp oder www.cinemacraft.com/en/jp
This Version you can dl directly without going to visiblelight...


I don't have any RegEntry for the Vidc.YV12, which is really strange, because it still gets decoded in CCE 2.67

Greets,
TCD

[Gant]

thank you both for the fast and helpfull replies. :)

take care.