XviD-03052003-1

[hubereevez]

Edited

Hi,
Credits crashed (...)
Rest of the movie looks amazing good.

:confused:
It's my brain, that have a bug, forgot settings in first pass....
Sorry
Works now

[Nic]

You didn't post all your settings though ;) You really need to do that if you want help tracking down the possible bug.
Let us know if you find the problem, :)

-Nic

[crusty]

It's my brain, that have a bug, forgot settings in first pass....
Sorry
Works now

Your brain or the movie ? :D :D :D

[iago]

Originally posted by crusty
Stuff that will work but that has it's tricks and caveats:
b-frames
Qpel

Right? I won't comment on qpel (though I like it too ;)) but imho XviD b-frames are definitely great in their current status!

[PowerMacG4]

VHQ4
Chroma Motion
Search Prec 6
no other features enabled

Whenever there is a shift from darkness to lightness there is a problem with blockiness that 'blends' away pretty quickly but is very noticable. I am sure there was not a problem with this in previous builds. Will post screens later.

[Koepi]

No need for. Fades suck a bit currently. Using qpel decreases that effect.

Regards
Koepi

[crusty]

but imho XviD b-frames are definitely great in their current status

Yep, but I meant you need to know some stuff (like not using modulated quant with b-frames and stuff) if you use it. Not that the end results are less. :)

And indeed, fades are not pretty right now. Maybe we should give them some more bits.

[PowerMacG4]

@Koepi
As I recall, the fades were much better in your previous build.

[mf]

Originally posted by PowerMacG4
@Koepi
As I recall, the fades were much better in your previous build.
As I recall, fades have always been crappy and this build is no exception.

[iago]

Finally, thanks to the power of b-frames, Buena Vista Social Club on 1CD, without too much filtering and with pretty good quality and 128 ABR mp3! :D

1stPass/2ndPass = ~ 3/2

BicubicResize(544,304,0.333,0.333)

vhq4
cm
b-frames 3/150/100/255 (!)
hvs-good-matrix

Btw, it took some 24 hours for the encode to finish on my monster system! ;)

regards,
iago

[mpeg4_tech]

Originally posted by iago

vhq4
cm
b-frames 3/150/100/255 (!)
hvs-good-matrix

Btw, it took some 24 hours for the encode to finish on my monster system! ;)

Wow, 24 hours of encode is a long time, and I thought 10 hours was long :D

I have a question regarding your settings up top. You specify b-frames 3/150/100/255
The 255 is B-frame threshold, correct? I've been using, b-frames 2 /150/100/0, what would be the difference if I used 255 for B-frame threshold? Is it recommended to use 255 instead of 0 for that?
Regards:cool:

[Nic]

@mpeg4-tech:
Please always search quickly before asking :)
Please read Syskin's post here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=309036&highlight=BFrame+threshold#post309036

-Nic

[Morbo]

Better use VHQ=4 (safe with my latest build) and the bframe settings I suggested.

Man oh Man,VHQ make sthe world so slow,but makes the picture look so much better...thanks K for "leaking" your fav....:D

[iago]

mpeg4_tech,

These settings are neither the recommended nor the best settings for "every" movie, but only the settings I used (together with some avisynth filtering) for that "particular" movie. And I just wanted to share my pleasure with the results with all, that's all! ;)

regards,
iago

[Koepi]

3 bframes at a threshold of 255 look like a bit too much to me.

Regards
Koepi

[iago]

Right, it's too much! 2/150/100/255 with a sharper resize would definitely look much better; but not on 1CD for this movie. It's a compromise! ;)

[hubereevez]

Hi, cos i'm a noob xvid encoder (not a divx one :) ), I post my settings here and I would like to say (cos time consuming is not important for me) that xvid is providing me a better frame quality with more details and less macro blocks (like describing in codec comparison)
Here they are (please don't flame me if it's totally wrong):

Motion search precision :6
Quantization :mpeg (tried custom and hvs good pic but vdubmod crashed, lastjob.vcf in use)
fourcc : xvid
vhq : 4
quartelpel chroma motion
b-frames : 4/150/100
chroma optimizer

encoding time : 10 hours in 654*256, 0.278, lanczos, (gknot provided me a much much better comptest with xvid than divx), 1cd

still have broken b-frame, tpp=1 tbp=2 at the beginning

hoping it can provide you infos

siya

hubhub

PS : 24 seems a lot, 10 hours on 1800+ winxp and I did choose very time consuming settings, didn't I ? (ha these good question tags from high school!)

[BoNz1]

Originally posted by hubereevez
still have broken b-frame, tpp=1 tbp=2 at the beginning

hoping it can provide you infos

siya

hubhub

PS : 24 seems a lot, 10 hours on 1800+ winxp and I did choose very time consuming settings, didn't I ? (ha these good question tags from high school!)

The broken b-frame is nothing to worry about at all, if you would have searched for this you would have found this, http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44195&perpage=20&highlight=bframe%20decoder%20lag&pagenumber=5 where Koepi explains what is happening. As, for it being slow, well you used settings that will make it that way. I used similar settings today for an encode and it took 16hrs, no big deal though, the quality is incredible that is all that matters to me. :)
EDIT: Oh and BTW 4 b-frames might be a little strong, personally I like 2,150,100,150 but if this looks good to you then happy encoding. :)

[kilg0r3]

Personally, I like a b-frame values of 124/100/100, which leaves the b-frame quantizer at 3 when the p-frame is at q 2.

[crusty]

I must say, this new build is excellent!

I just made a rip of the Disney movie The Black Hole, and the results are truly excellent!

Settings:
Motion Search Precision 6
H263
4CC=Xvid
VHQ=4
max I frame 300
min I frame 2
Chrome Motion, Qpel, Chroma Optimizer
B-frames 2/150/100/255
B-VOP compatability
Quantizers 2/31 2/31

Avisynth:
Main movie:
crop(0,74,718,432)
Undot()
LanczosResize(704,288)
Undot()
FluxSmooth(5,5)

End Credits:
crop(0,74,718,432)
Undot()
BilinearResize(704,288)
Undot()
Temporalsoften(3,5,5,mode=2,scenechange=10)
Convolution3d("moviehq")
FluxSmooth(7,7)

The End credits look no different from the DVD at a rate of 298 kbps!
Even difficult stuff like smoke and flames looks really good, even so at this resolution.
The only artifacts is some slight vertical banding noise at edges of the movie when there are very even-colored walls around, but I think these are probably artifacts from Convolution3d.

The overall quality is really great. Hats off to the Xvid team !

One question tho:
What is the "Frame Drop Ratio" for under Chroma Optimizer in the debug tab?
I couldn't find an answer by searching the forum. Is it actually usefull for anything?

[hubereevez]

hi,

The broken b-frame is nothing to worry about at all...
Knew that (cos i know the search functiun :D )

@crusty : thanks for your settings :)

And one more time big thanks to the xvid team and you koepi, quality (for me who prefer no macro blocks) is there....switching definitively to xvid...

hubhub

[mf]

To all the users who do not wish to tweak endlessly(tm): as you may have noticed, my signature also contains recommended settings. Why my signature, because all my posts have them, and I can update it easily in the user cp. They're not official, but I can guarantee you that I discuss them in the xvid IRC channel and the settings work good for several people (meaning not just me). I will update them as necessary. I hope to be testing Trellis quant today, so that by the time it reaches a public build, I'll be able to correctly judge its usefulness in my recommended settings.

[ffroms]

Hi to all!
I've tested latest Koepi's build and I'm little confused. I did 2pass-1st pass but I turned off "Discard fist pass" so I got AVI with first pass where quanta is 2 (for I and P frames). I've set B-frame 2/150/100/255 (as Koepi suggested). Now when I watch avi with FFDSHOW with turned OSD I can see that I and P frames are at quanta 2 but B frame is at quanta 4. Didn't B frame supposed to be at quanta 3 (quantizer ratio is 150%, what means B frame gets quanta 50% more than it is for P frame)? Hope someone explain this to me.

FFS

[Sharro]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48443&highlight=bframe

Think this thread is the best explanation I have ever read.

All the best,


Sharro

[Assault]

@ ffroms

B-frame quantizer is right in your encode. Please use the search button. The formula for calculating b-frame quantizer has been explained many times.
Another possibility is to hold your mouse over quantizer ratio in the xvid configuration for a few seconds and there'll appear the formula. ;)

Regards
Assault

[ffroms]

Thanks guys. I've tried formula and it's OK and clear to me. Thanks again.

FFS

[nesskiel]

hello,

just tested it for 1 CD encode and the result is quiet amazing..,thanks for the hard work ;)
just a stupid question:is there a problem with your build and WMP 6.4?cause the video doesn't play on it,i've got 100% CPU load but not a single frame is played :(
In all other player (BSplayer,MPC,etc..) the video just plays fine.
i tried the last ffdshow but the result is damn bad (aliasing every where,etc..).
regards
Ness

for the record:
Settings:
Motion Search Precision 6
H263
4CC=Xvid
VHQ=0
max I frame 275
min I frame 2
Chrome Motion, Chroma Optimizer
B-frames -1
B-VOP compatability
hvs better picture matrix.

[neoviper]

To my eyes using anything higher than VHQ1 still does something to the picture. :( I made a small test:

used LanczosResize() with no additional filters.
default xvid settings, except:
1 Pass - quantizer 2
Quantization type: MPEG
Use chroma motion: enabled
Quarterpel: enabled
Maximum B-frames: 2
DX50 B-VOP compatibility: disabled
Chroma Optimizer: enabled

vhq0.mkv - 590 KB
vhq1.mkv (http://koti.mbnet.fi/balrog/vhq1.mkv) - 584 KB
vhq2.mkv - 556 KB
vhq3.mkv - 553 KB
vhq4.mkv (http://koti.mbnet.fi/balrog/vhq4.mkv) - 549 KB

This is most noticeable on solid backgrounds with some noise on them and when the video is upsized. Try viewing it in VirtualdubMod with 2x zoom or watch it in full screen. Look at the wall as it starts to flutter between the two persons.

Regards,
neoviper

[Selur]

"Look at the wall as it starts to flutter between the two persons."
Could be a mpeg&qpel problem,.. plz try the same thing with h263&qpel

[neoviper]

Originally posted by Selur
Could be a mpeg&qpel problem,.. plz try the same thing with h263&qpelI tried that and the effect is still there but much less noticeable.

[Jan Marijniszoon]

In the 3-may build I found a possible bug with b-frames...

In virtualdub it gives the following message in the frame:

http://members.lycos.nl/ludosanders/b-frame1.jpg

Then when I jump back within virtualdub it gives this shit-frame:

http://members.lycos.nl/ludosanders/b-frame2.jpg

I used 2/150/100/255 on the b-frames...when I used 2/150/100/0 this did not happen! So has this anything to do with the high threshold?

Here are the complete settings:

Ultra High Motion Precision
MPEG Custom HVS BEST
VHQ mode 1
I-frame: 250 and 1
Chroma motion enabled
Quarterpel enabled
B-frames: 2 - 150 - 100 - 255
DX50 B-VOP disabled (syskin advised not do do this. I will enable it again next time, but I think it has nothing to do with the problem at hand here)
I capped both quant ranges to 2 - 3

I never had this problem with the 4-april build.

This is my first bug posting here. So don't be mad if this is lame :-)

Greetings,
Jan.

[kilg0r3]

Originally posted by Jan Marijniszoon

DX50 B-VOP disabled (syskin advised not do do this.
IMO this is precisely the cause of your 'problem'. You will see these blocks also when seeking in a player but not while watching the film.

[Koepi]

Well, i don't think it's a bug. The problem is: a) the decoder bufers have to be filled (with disabled bvop compatibility, that are 3 frames...). With dx50 bvop comp. it wouldn't happen (that badly at least). Using a lower threshold didn't use 2 bframes there but only 1 (or even none). Thus it's all kinda depending on dx50-bvop...

Ah, and just in case: packed bitstream doesn't work properly (in 2pass) yet.

regards
Koepi