BeSweet's ac3enc creates extremly low-volume ac3

[Julio]

Alright, my post just got moved to this thread.
I read it and it's very interesting... so it seems that there's no way to transcode WAV to AC3 without loss of level.
What a mess.
That means loss of audio information ! I'm just disgusted. Bye.

[FreQi]

I'm not excactly sure that there is a loss of audio information so much as the new AC3 is being "marked" to play at a lower volume. Meaning, rather than altering the waveform, maybe it's just encoded on a different dB scale. I dunno... Just a guess/hope.

[Julio]

Originally posted by FreQi
I'm not excactly sure that there is a loss of audio information so much as the new AC3 is being "marked" to play at a lower volume. Meaning, rather than altering the waveform, maybe it's just encoded on a different dB scale. I dunno... Just a guess/hope.

Okay, but then why do we see the diminished waveform when decompressing the AC3 into a wave editor like Goldwave, and not the "original, not-lowered" waveform ?

[aklendathu]

I have extracted the audio from a captured AVI to a separate WAV file and encoded it to 2.0 AC3 with BeSweet (384 kbps). However, the sound level becomes extremely low. I tried the 0db Gain as well as the Auto Gain flags and none worked well. What parameters/flags should I use to get a decent sound level on the AC3 file (at least as loud as the original WAV) ?

Thanks in advance,

Pedro

[orestis]

I _think_ there might be an issue with AC3Filter.

If you use a DVD-Player (e.g. WinDVD) it uses its own AC# decoder. When trying playing a transcoded AC3 it sounds just the same as the original. I haven't made any serious tests because it takes me way much time to transcode so I just put the original AC3 in and do a 2-cd rip.

Could anyone give this a look ?

[raam123]

I've been transcoding Mp3 to wav using BesweetGUI.

I choose the Dolby option at the right window , which allows AC3-WAV.

When finished I burn it , and play it on my DVD , though the volume is low , I have to rise it to Max to hear it well...

Any idea ?

[sphinx]

Hi,

I'm ripping a DVD using Robot4Rip, which uses DVD2AVI to encode the sound to AC3. Often the volume on the each segment of the dvd remain constant, but sometimes you get the odd episode where the volume is alot softer then those of the others. I've listened to the DVD and the volume is normal, but on the ac3 its alot softer.

I've tried ripping it with SmartRipper and still had the same soft volume of the ac3. I've also tried increasing the volume to that of the others using AC3Machine, but after doing that the sound is vastly distorted.

Does anyone have ideas that could help me solve this problem?

Cheers.
Sphinx

p.s. my post has seemed to have moved to this thread...
/me reads

[Kermee]

Hi All,

I'm trying to convert AC3 off a PAL source to NTSC AC3.

I'm using the BeSweetGUI to do this and using the preset "PAL -> NTSC (25.000 to 23.976)" to do so.

The resulting file is exactly correct in length. However the volume is at least -6dB of what the original AC3 is. How do I fix this?

Here is the command line it does:

BeSweet.exe -core( -input "C:\PAL.ac3" -output "NTSC.ac3" -logfile "C:\BeSweet.log" ) -azid( -z1 -b1 -s stereo ) -ota( -r 25000 23976 ) -ac3enc( -b 384 )

Any ideas why the resulting AC3 has much lower volume than the original? Thanks.

[vmesquita]

@DSPGuru

Looks like the bug has been fixed in the latest FFMpeg 0.4.8... Could you check?

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=669661#669661
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=672401#672401

[]'s
VMesquita

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by vmesquita
@DSPGuru

Looks like the bug has been fixed in the latest FFMpeg 0.4.8... Could you check?

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=669661#669661
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=672401#672401

[]'s
VMesquita in one word : bullshit.
in more details : this bugfix is actually something i wrote 14monthes ago to fix a flaw on 2ch ac3 encoding.
the volume bug is still there.. :(

[vmesquita]

@DSPGuru

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I was refering to the bug that prevents AC3 files produced in BeSweet to be played in Pioneer stand-alones. Has it been fixed? :confused:
I never experienced this volume bug... :)

[]'s
VMesquita

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by vmesquita
@DSPGuru

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I was refering to the bug that prevents AC3 files produced in BeSweet to be played in Pioneer stand-alones. Has it been fixed? :confused:
I never experienced this volume bug... :)

[]'s
VMesquita again, this "new" feature is there in BeSweet for almost 15monthes.

ps,
i seriously conisder removing any support for ac3enc.dll in future BeSweet versions as it seems that users ignores my warning about the amature state of this codec and use it to encode important stuff.

[vmesquita]

Well, I never saw your warnings... :( :( But use ac3enc mostly for tests, because of this pioneer bug. I don't have a pioneer player, so I never knew if it was fixed or not.
Unfortunatelly, there's no other free ac3 encoding utility... And SoftEncode (my favorite) has no command-line support. Do you have any software recommendation for AC3 encoding?

[]'s
VMesquita

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by vmesquita
Well, I never saw your warnings... :( :( http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15738

Unfortunatelly, there's no other free ac3 encoding utility... And SoftEncode (my favorite) has no command-line support. Do you have any software recommendation for AC3 encoding?http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60137&perpage=31&pagenumber=2


Cheers,
Dg.

[vmesquita]

This is great! I never knew softencode had command-line support! I just can't figure out how to do 2.0 throught commandline.

<edit>I just figured out, I posted here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=383110#post383110
</edit>

[]'s
VMesquita

[J-Wo]

Here is my solution to the whole low volume on AC3 encodes. After only a couple attempts, I stumbled upon the setting that PostGain to 100% solves everything. In the command line, this is -ota( -G 1 ). This setting can be found in the latest BeSweetGUI, but NOT in AC3machine. Someone previously posted that setting Autofind Maximal Gain worked for him, which is the same as PreGain Normalize to 100% in BeSweetGUI, or -ota( -g max ) in the commandline. However I found that this did NOT solve the problem. Neither did trying Hybridgain.

In my case, I was transcoding a 5.1 channel AC3 from 448 kbps to 224 kbps. The two settings I never know what to do with is Dynamic Compression and LFE to LR Channels. Can anyone tell me what I should set these two to preserve the original audio quality as much as possible? Thanks!

[spacemaggot]

I tried encoding a stereo .WAV to a stereo .AC3 with and without the above command-line switch, and got two identical files (same MD5 sums). No joy here.

Anyone want to sell a used copy of Soft Encoder?

-Spacemaggot.

[Amnon82]

Here a AC3 out of a MP3 Stereo. It keeped the loudness...

http://rj-elektronik.de/avideo/samples/Beyonce-Dangerously_in_love_by_Amnon82.ac3

Created with this

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75833

[adboehm]

I don't suppose there has yet been any fix to ac3enc.dll or any quick fix? (5.1-5.1 with lower bitrate)

[Dirk99]

Is there any other possibility to lower the bitrate in ac3-files? I´ve tested AC3Machine to downcode from 448 to 384 and you hear the different loudness very good.

The method from Amnon82 is only to convert single waves to one 5.1 ac3, isn´t it?

[keithmac]

You need to use a good ac3 encoder like Softencode, the ac3enc.dll is the weak link in the chain, even just a framerate change with no bitrate change dropped the volume on my ac3 by at least 50%

[Dirk99]

And with Softencode it is no problem? That would be great! Do you have a link where I can get the program?

[daphy]

your a funny fellow :D

I guess the World Wide Web would be a hot adress :rolleyes:

[Dirk99]

Your´re right. Even a silly question. Sorry.


I use BeSplit to join or to split AC3-files. Does this program a direct stream copy or makes it use of the bad ac3enc.dll?

Thx,
Dirk

[keithmac]

I use BeSweet to timestretch and add delay (if needed) and output to 6 wave files, feed these into SoftEncode and re-render the ac3 stream (this point you can set the bitrate etc)

"C:\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "e:joinfix01.ac3" -output "e:\joinfix01.wav" -6ch -logfilea "C:\BeSweet.log" ) -ota( -r 23976 25000 -d 32 ) -profile( ~~~~~ Default Profile ~~~~~ )

Sample line, changing lenght to suit 25 fps from 24 fps ad delay and output to 6 wavs, don`t use -azid at all as i don`t need to and it actual lowers the volume slightly as well?

[keithmac]

the ac3.dll is only used to make the ac3 not decode it as far as I can see.

[Dirk99]

What do you use in the other configuration fields? In Sof Encode you can enter a "Dialog normalisation" a "Center mix level" and many more options. But I only want to change the bitrate and nothing else.

[keithmac]

You need to find the avaerage RMS level for the dialogue normalisation value, I use SoundForge in the Normalisation section it has an option to find the rms value, use the centre channel wav as the input.

As for the other options I`m looking into it at the moment, trying not to alter anything else really, no 90 degree shif or attenuation on the surround channels etc, if you read the help file while you`re setting the encoding options you`ll have a good idea what to change and what not to.

The dialogue normalisation is just a flag for the decode to sort the volume levels out.

[ocyl]

Give ffmpegGUI Beta Build 3c (with ffmpeg CVS 2006-04-28) a try, folks :cool:

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/ffmpegGUI.htm

[tebasuna51]

Good news!
At last a free ac3 encoder with output volume equal to input volume!

Thanks.

[mutha trucka]

Give ffmpegGUI Beta Build 3c (with ffmpeg CVS 2006-04-28) a try, folks :cool:

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/ffmpegGUI.htm
I tried it and compared the results with the besweet result and it has the same low volume problem, unfortunately.

[tebasuna51]

I tried it and compared the results with the besweet result and it has the same low volume problem, unfortunately.
Not at all, with BeSweet-ac3enc the output volume is limited to 50% of input volume.
With new ffmpeg the output volume is 100% the input volume.

Try this test:
1) Make a stereo wav sample normalized 100%
2) Encode to ac3 with BeSweet-ac3enc
3) Encode to ac3 with ffmpeg
The ffmpeg encoded is 6 dB higher (100%/50%) than BeSweet encoded.

To check multichannel wav's you need other GUI than ffmpegGUI to use ffmpeg.exe (maybe BeHappy).

[mutha trucka]

My bad. I didn't have the latest version. Thanks, it works great!

[vlada]

Since the low volume bug in FFMPEG is fixed now, can I somewhere download and updated ac3enc.dll for BeSweet?

[shon3i]

Since the low volume bug in FFMPEG is fixed now, can I somewhere download and updated ac3enc.dll for BeSweet?I think no, but why not just use BeHappy.

[danpos]

Since the low volume bug in FFMPEG is fixed now, can I somewhere download and updated ac3enc.dll for BeSweet?

If you've good skills on C++ / audio encode, so go ahead (some people tried do it but unfortunately didn't get success ... :( )

Good luck,

[vlada]

Unfortunately I'm not a good C/C++ programmer. I think I'll stay with BeHappy, which works fine for me.

But BeLight is a very nice and clean GUI for transcoding, so it would be nice if it worked too without any problems.

[Kurtnoise]

There is an alternative for BeSweet to resolve this issue : using Aften with the last bsn.dll...I didn't tried though. Maybe tonight.

[vlada]

Kurtnoise13> How is it looking with BeLight and Aften? Have you found any working solution? Thank you.

Btw. an updated ac3enc.dll with low volume problem fixed doesen't exist yet?

[Kurtnoise]

Hi,

Here is (http://kurtnoise.free.fr/index.php?dir=BeLight/&file=bsn_Aften_20060926.zip) an update for bsn.dll to use it with Aften (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113074). I've made some tests only with CBR/VBR Modes. So, please test it with all switches available.

Command Line example :
For Stereo Output @384kbps :
BeSweet -core( -input "C:\my_file.wav" -output "E:\my_file.ac3" -logfile "E:\logfile.txt" ) -bsn( -exe aften.exe -b 384 )
For Stereo Output with q=300 (VBR Mode) :
BeSweet -core( -input "C:\my_file.wav" -output "E:\my_file.ac3" -logfile "E:\logfile.txt" ) -bsn( -exe aften.exe -q 300 )
For Multichannel Output @448kbps :
BeSweet -core( -input "C:\my_file.wav" -output "E:\my_file.ac3" -logfile "E:\logfile.txt" ) -bsn( -exe aften.exe -b 448 -6chnew )

BeLight (http://corecodec.org/frs/?group_id=45&release_id=303#r303) has been also updated to support Aften.

[LigH]

I am afraid I would instead really prefer a " native" aften.dll BeSweet plugin, instead of feeding the EXE - if possible; but if you promise that there are no drawbacks, I have to believe you... ;)

[Kurtnoise]

Problem is : BeSweet is closed sources. So, we need to find an other way to use extra goodies...Unless to tweak ac3enc lib but BeSweet won't be able to use new things anyway.

[gonwk]

Hi folks,

Can someone load up the "BeHappy" GUI somewhere on Doom9 so we can download it.

I went to the Site that Hosts it and it is tough trying to navigate thru it ... I could not figure out how to download that GUI.

Thanks,
G!

[LigH]

@ Kurtnoise13:

Unfortunately, you seem to be right. It is possible to use plugins in BeSweet, but you seem to be only able to use parameter-less functions, which is a bad limitation.

besweet.exe -plugin( -name DLL_NAME -func EFFECT_NAME [-6ch] )

Adding parameters would be necessary for such a complex function like an AC3 encoder. Maybe something like:

besweet.exe -plugin( -name DLL_NAME -func EFFECT_NAME:par1=val1;par2=val2 [-6ch] )

[Kurtnoise]

Yes but the problem remains. How BeSweet can parse this "par1=val1;par2=val2" w/o tuning the code ?

Perhaps, there is an other way to do that :
besweet.exe -core(...) -dimzon( -dllname DLL_NAME ......)
You need first to build libaften then create a new lib to call aften functions...

[tebasuna51]

Can someone load up the "BeHappy" GUI somewhere on Doom9 so we can download it.

I went to the Site that Hosts it and it is tough trying to navigate thru it ... I could not figure out how to download that GUI.
Search in BeHappy thread.

You can use the last shon3i package (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=829754#post829754)

[gonwk]

Hi TebaSuna,

I OWE YOU one ... THANKS A BUNCH!

BTW, Teba ... does BeHappy have a "BETTER" Quality than BeLight (BeSweet GUI) program.
What I have been doing ... I have bought few foreign DVDs that I think they were either copied from Satellite or they were dubbed from VHS tapes ... since they have a Hummm and Hisss ... so, I have been rebuilding them as follows but I DO NOT like my results since it seems I lose Audio Quality ... the Original's Audio tell me they are AC3 2Channel 256 ... here what I do ...

1) Use DVDDecrypter to rip in File mode (vob's).
2) Use DGIndex to demux (get Video=.m2v & Audio=.AC3)
3) Use Belight 0.22 to convert AC3 file to Wav file.
4) Use Audacity 1.3 to clean up my Wav file ... under "Effect" I use "Noise Removal" and take out noise. But I believe by doing so I also might be sacrificing my Highs and Lows!!!!
5) Export my edited Wav file. Sometimes I get daring and try the "Leveller" and even "Amplify" ... but either effect I don't care for since Results sound echoey and not so hot to my ears.
6) Use BeLight again to convert the new Wave File to AC3 ... without any Boosting or Gain. But if I have to do it because my end result is way too LOW ... then for Boosting "Ligh" works the best for me; and for Gain "HybridGain" works best for me.
7) Use Muxman to combine my earlier Video file (.m2v) with my new clean AC3. Program works great.
8) Use DVDShrink to make my ISO.
9) Use ImgBurn to burn my ISO to a DVD.

The reason I went into this detail is because I am hoping someone else might find this guide helpful ... since I had to practically read pages and pages and search so much to come with a solution that used nothing but "Freeware" to do what I wanted to do.

THANKS Again for your Help!

G!:thanks:

[gonwk]

Hi Kurt & Ligh,

I was so "Excited" when I saw Teba's post with URL to BeHappy downlaod site that I did not even bother to read the other posts ... Sorrry & My Apology ... since you folks took the time to respond to my Q ...

Kurt & Ligh, I am not really that Familiar with Line Codes ... matter of a fact it would be safe to say I am Big Dummy in that department ... if it does not have a GUI that walks me thru .... or a hell of a "Guide" .... then I am dead in the water.

So, if you can point me to a Guide for learning how to experiment with Command Lines Without Crashing my computer then I am game!!!

Thanks,
G!:thanks:

[tebasuna51]

BTW, Teba ... does BeHappy have a "BETTER" Quality than BeLight (BeSweet GUI) program.
Not at all. BeHappy is more flexible than BeLight-BeSweet because use AviSynth scripts, accept any DirectShow input, can be developed with plugins open-source and accept any encoder with stdin support.
BeSweet is closed sources and Kurtnoise can't improve it. He make a good work with the BeLight GUI and supporting the new encoders like Aften for ac3.
For your problem ac3 2.0 -> ac3 2.0 you obtain the same quality (maybe the ac3-decoder BeSweet-azid is more flexible than NicAudio-AviSynth).

Now I make some comments to audio steps in your solution:
3) Use Belight 0.22 to convert AC3 file to Wav file.
Here you have a important decision related with audio volume, apply or not the Dynamic Range Compression (DRC). The free encoders can't create DRC, by the moment, then if your audio equipment don't support a wide dynamic range (hear the whispers and the explosions not distorted) is recommended apply here the DRC 'normal' (or 'heavy' before than use Boost)
4) Use Audacity 1.3 to clean up my Wav file ... under "Effect" I use "Noise Removal" and take out noise. But I believe by doing so I also might be sacrificing my Highs and Lows!!!!
Yes, is difficult erase only the noise, but is a user choice. Remember only one thing: if the original ac3 2.0 is Dolby ProLogic encoded this kind of edition can destroy the dpl info.
5) Export my edited Wav file. Sometimes I get daring and try the "Leveller" and even "Amplify" ... but either effect I don't care for since Results sound echoey and not so hot to my ears.
If you experiment volume problems this is the moment to Amplify the maximum without clipping
6) Use BeLight again to convert the new Wave File to AC3 ... without any Boosting or Gain. But if I have to do it because my end result is way too LOW ... then for Boosting "Ligh" works the best for me; and for Gain "HybridGain" works best for me.
Here, if you have the last version of BeLight (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=881619#post881619), you must use Aften encoder (double volume than ac3enc).
With the wav normalized/maximized in step 5 any 'PreGain' do nothing and 'PostGain' or 'HybridGain' can't be applied over an ac3 (and unnecessary with Aften with input normalized).

Boost is the last solution. Make the same than DRC but distorting the audio with undesired harmonics. Never use Boost, return to step 5 and edit the wav until you are satisfied.
If you can't hear the wav exactly the same volume than the ac3 encoded by Aften maybe you have a problem with your ac3 player

[gonwk]

Hi Tebasuna51,

THANKS for your detailed message and all the Great Tips that you have given me ... I saved your above Tips for my reference.

THANKS Again,
G!