WM9 for DVD-Rip

[kilg0r3]

Originally posted by Assault
This wasn't meant as an offence. I only wanted to make clear why I wouldn't use it. :) :) :)
Didn't take it to be one. :)

@all
what's curretnly the easiest way to get some info on how to encode DVD->WMV9, including how to split onto 2 CDs, mux two Audio tracks plus subtitles?

[Ramirez]

@IWOD
Your observations concerning RV9 are correct;that RV9 rip that I mentioned earlier only looks sharp and detailed at the first look, as a moment I'm making a comparison between RV9 XVID WMV9 so in progress of creation of that comparison I compared almost 250 frames head to head (same bitrate/res) of RV9/XVID/WMV9..Man I was devastated, in many cases RV9 literally destroys quite a big amount of the original frame.

my theory is that's how RV9 achieves its impressive compressions levels,I think that depending on the complexity of the particular scene RV9 designed to destroy every none "vital" parts of the original frame in order to save some bits, so even if we'll ever be able to control RV9's P.P levels we won't see these details back, they're gone,wiped out from existence...(like for example there is a heavy rain in one of the frames in my comparison, same frame taken from RV9 and.. there is no RAIN! it's a miracle!! Now RV9 controls weather:-() Yes I can back it up, my comparison is 70% done (tons of work) I made it in both 600/1000kbps all frames will be easily viewable/switchable in both 600/1000kbps mode. I'll make it available very soon.

[Sirber]

@Ramirez

You're right. RV9 controls the weather. RV9 removes all what it thinks it's noise, like noise, noise, rain, noise, backgrounds, and at low bitrates, details. If you pre-process it correctly, you can have nice results (for low bitrates).

[ooops!]

> kilg0r3
A strange thing happened after I installed the Xvid codec. I didn’t see it straight away but a co-worker did, immediately. After installation of the Xvid codec, playback of previously encoded DivX files appeared to become more blocky.

This was noticed when the files were viewed via the WinMedia9 and DivX 2.1 ‘software’ players. Strangely too, QuickTime .Mp4 ‘video only’ encoded files were similarly affected but not as much.

I really am not kidding about this, because at work we are able to play copies of the same file on two (or more) identical spec PC’s and output the images to a plasma monitor via ‘split screen’.

When the Xvid codec was removed and a system restore initiated the output returned to normal!

Output via the ‘hardware’ Sigma Xcard was not affected. (However I do seem to remember a similar thing happening when I installed the Sigma Designs Mpeg4 codec some time ago.)


> All
Has anybody else noticed this or know of anyone experiencing this anomaly?

Also, I wonder if some of you guys could confirm my findings by performing your own tests using the same ‘test file’ as me (assuming you have the DVD ofcourse). And then post your results. As I think this will be the only way we can all see which codec looks the best.

I’m using ‘Star Wars 2 - Chapter 42 - Yoda’s Cavalry’ at 1min 17sec / Video Only - MPEG-2 - 720x576 (PAL) - 16~9 - Letterboxed.M2V / File size - 49,448KB (48.2MB).

All your output files must have an output size of '720x416' (PAL in my case), for the test to be fair and accurate.

I know some of you are in NTSC land, so the file will be different. But it might be interesting all the same.

My kbps settings and file size totals are as follows: -
01: WM9 2pass @ 615kbps VBR = 5,964KB
02: DivX5 5pass @ 629kbps VBR = 5,960KB
03: RM9 2pass @ 625kbps VBR = 5,900KB
04: QT MP4 1pass @ 664kbps CBR = 5,955KB 'absolute pants'!

Happy encoding............

[ChristianHJW]

Has anybody time to test WMV9 VCM in matroska with Vorbis please ? Should work by now ...

[ooops!]

> kilg0r3 / Assult

I'm trying the Xvid codec, using the settings you guys gave me but all I get is a blocky mess!

I wonder if I'm not using the correct 2pass method. Can either of you provide me with the info I need to do it manually (i.e. without the use of an all singing and dancing 2 pass application).

Bye the way have any of you guys tried MPEGmediator v1.5. I came across it by chance the other day and it's the fastest encoder I've used.

Sure, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of other applications, like auto 2pass, but you can easily change the ratio of the source image, perform crops etc under the 'Filters' tab and create 2Ch wav files from an ac3.

Just make sure in the 'Output' tab you select 'OpenDML AVI Output' so you can get to the Mpeg4 codec.

And when its encoding if you dont display the frames, it's even faster!

[Sirber]

MPEG Quants give less blocks, but sometimes moskitos noise.

[Assault]

@ ooops!

Try it with VirtualDubMod. You have to select 2pass - 1st pass for the first pass and 2pass - 2nd pass int. for the second. Furthermore you should use avisynth 2.5 to avoid colorspace conversions (it's faster). ;)

Regards
Assault

[kilg0r3]

OOps!
Kilg0r3 asks what WM9 encoder I use… Well it’s just Microsoft’s standard encoder. There really is no quick way of encoding WM9 ... What do you mean by quick; encoding speed or easy to understand, set up?
Aussault: You should use Koepi's latest unstable version XviD-05042003-1.
Yes definitely.
After installation of the Xvid codec, playback of previously encoded DivX files appeared to become more blocky.
I really don't know what could cause this :confused:
I'm trying the Xvid codec, using the settings you guys gave me but all I get is a blocky mess!
Assuming you are using the latest _unstable_ koepi build, I must say that it is quite possible that xvid cannot cope very well with bitrates as low as yours. At the resolutions given above, I assume, xvid needs at least 900kbit to perform well. !!Just a speculation!!
Can either of you provide me with the info I need to do it manually (i.e. without the use of an all singing and dancing 2 pass application).
I think the best sources for this are currently doom9's guide plus emp3r0r's document (search in the forum). In this order.


Btw, there has been a very detailed test in the german computer magazine ct resulting in the following ranking.
1. WMV9 (God, why do you allow this?)
2. RV9
3. XVID
4. DIVX
The test was conducted with a variety of different resolutions and two bitrates.

[ooops!]

> Kilg0r3

With regard to the WM9 encoder and front end provided by Microsoft, it takes along time to encode and create a 2pass WM9 file.

It can also be a bit difficult to set up the encoder correctly in the first place, if you are new to it.

However once you get your head around it and create your own presets the results are good.

But if you are inputting large files it's vital that you encode the audio and video separately and use the 'media stream editor' to mux them back together.

Thanks for your info about XviD 2pass at low bit rates. I tried encoding my favourite 1min 17sec 'test file' using 1pass CBR 630kbps, 1pass quality and 1pass quantizer modes. The resulting files were at least watchable.

When I tried creating 2pass file, I was hoping I would obtain a better quality image. But this is when I got the 'blocky mess'.

So this is what lead me to believe that it's me that's doing something wrong an not the encoders fault.

Any feedback would be great. Thanks

[haibane]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
Has anybody time to test WMV9 VCM in matroska with Vorbis please ? Should work by now ...

I v0.3.1, with WMV9, it produced result like this:
http://skywalker1.mysitespace.com/Snap1.jpg

however, the the vorbis can still be decode ok......

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by haibane
I v0.3.1, with WMV9, it produced result like this:
http://skywalker1.mysitespace.com/Snap1.jpg

however, the the vorbis can still be decode ok...... .. we are looking into this, we feel it micht be a problem with 1st frame not being reported as a keyframe from our parser filter, and then the filter hangs.

Somebody with more time than me should test with a keyframe interval of 1, if this could help ( to have a lot of keyframes in the beginning ... ) ...

[haibane]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
.. we are looking into this, we feel it micht be a problem with 1st frame not being reported as a keyframe from our parser filter, and then the filter hangs.

Somebody with more time than me should test with a keyframe interval of 1, if this could help ( to have a lot of keyframes in the beginning ... ) ...

I tried a encode with all keyframes, I can't even start the play, it is locked in (paused/stopped mode), I was using MPC and WMP7.

[amirm]

I have seen a lot of requests for turning off post filters on WMV9. Here is the way to do it with a reg key setting:

\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Scrunch\Force Post Process Mode

This is a DWORD value. The valid value is from 0 to 4, 0 being turning off post filter and 4 being the strongest. If the value is outside this range, the decoder will use the automatic mode to decide the post filter strength.

Note that the faster your machine (up to a limit), the stronger the (automatic) postfilter is which may explain why people are seeing different results. Let me know what you think.

Amir

[midiguy]

should I choose decimal or hexidecimal when adjustinf the PP?

[Ramirez]

Both, "Force PP Mode" and "Post Process Mode" Dword keys are hexadecimal base values, and if you'd delete "Post Process Mode" key for example, wmv9vcm.dll will recreate this key next time you'll play wmv9vcm video content (defaulted at hexadecimal value 1 /4)