SVCDbuilder

[migor]

Hello, friends!

I have a nice program for SVCD creation, made by myself some time ago, which is in active use by me and my friends. It has nice interface, supports CinemaCraft and Canopus ProCoder encoders, is simple to use and gives good results, but I time-to-time work on it's improvement. Just take a look:
http://svcdbuilder.vze.com

[Kb_cruncher]

I had a look at SVCDBuilder and i see it uses the mux tool from i-author,this is ok for people that still have and/or use it but for those that don't(most of us),it renders the gui useless,which is a shame because i really like what it can do.I agree bbmpeg's muxing is a little buggy but it works fine for me most times if i set the mux rate to 0.May i suggest using the mux tool from TSCV,it is very good and works a treat.

[migor]

Thanks for your suggestion, Kb_cruncher. I'll add support of the bbMPEG- based muxer of mmgrover:
http://www.tctelco.net/~mmgrover/mplex.zip
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=34355&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
ASAP, maybe tomorrow or day later.

[migor]

Already done! It was just simple.

[jorel]

congrats migor,

seems very good!

why don't use TMPGenc too?

[migor]

ProCoder provides better quality than both TMPGEncoder and CCE.
TMPGEnc often makes "dancing" backgrounds on low bitrates and produces mackroblocks on fast motion.
CCE on SVCD bitrates produses snow-like noise and "mosquito" noise around of objects, but has much better handling of the fast motion and is much faster.
The ProCoder is slower , and it's picture is little softer, than CCE.
However ProCoder's picture is much cleaner, monochrome surfaces are better, fast motion is just fine, better than CCE. With ProCoder you can make fullscreen 720x480(576) movie even on SVCD bitrates! Try to do it with CCE!? ProCoder is very good for DVD to SVCD conversion and also it is only encoder that can produce good SVCD from DV source.

That's why I don't use TMPGEnc, and, it seems to be more complex for automation. But maybe, I'll do it (if SVCDbuilder will be useful prog)

[jorel]

Originally posted by migor
ProCoder provides better quality than both TMPGEncoder and CCE.
TMPGEnc often makes "dancing" backgrounds on low bitrates and produces mackroblocks on fast motion.
CCE on SVCD bitrates produses snow-like noise and "mosquito" noise around of objects, but has much better handling of the fast motion and is much faster.
The ProCoder is slower , and it's picture is little softer, than CCE.
However ProCoder's picture is much cleaner, monochrome surfaces are better, fast motion is just fine, better than CCE. With ProCoder you can make fullscreen 720x480(576) movie even on SVCD bitrates! Try to do it with CCE!? ProCoder is very good for DVD to SVCD conversion and also it is only encoder that can produce good SVCD from DV source.

That's why I don't use TMPGEnc, and, it seems to be more complex for automation. But maybe, I'll do it (if SVCDbuilder will be useful prog)

really right!(you got the words)
this is my opinion about procoder too.
very few people see the differences,i'm using procoder from last year and got fantastics results.

"I'll do it (if SVCDbuilder will be useful prog)"
of course will be!
TMPGenc with Kwag's templates is faster and clean.
do you know it?

ps:
why don't you create a package
with all programs(free)
with SVCDbuilder(x).zip ?
:confused:

[migor]

I don't know what Kwag's templates are, I didn't work with TMPGenc lately. I will learn it ASAP. Now I'm planning to add VFAPI convertor support, because Link2 is not a free utility and it's newest versions don't work with ProCoder. I'm also planning to make it possible to avoid using mpeg stills at the end of the movie - use avisynth's black video with text. I do know that SVCDbuilder is not yet complete and needs to be improved, and in order to improve it, I need feedback.
It's not a bad idea to create a package with all the freeware programs, but I need the authors' permissions to do this !? Is that right?

[jorel]

"need the authors' permissions to do this !? Is that right?"
i don't know friend...but ask the authors,i can't see any problem.

"Link2 is not a free utility and it's newest versions don't work with ProCoder."
yeah,i see it.....the boring part,no?

about Kwag's templates:
http://kvcd.net/forum

sorry my horrible english.....
i have some ideas and pm to you later,ok?

thanks.

your program promisse cool features!
:)

[Kb_cruncher]

Already done! It was just simple.

Wow,that was fast.Thankyou,i am most greatfull.I will try it asap.


Now I'm planning to add VFAPI convertor support, because Link2 is not a free utility and it's newest versions don't work with ProCoder.

The latest release of ffvfw codec comes with a tool that can replace link2 and it is free,although i'm not sure about using it outside the codec it comes with.


http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49964&highlight=ffvfw

http://athos.web1000.com/ffvfw.html

[migor]

Thanks, Kb_cruncher, I will check this. Now the next program update will be done very soon. It will be an option do not use mpeg stills at the and of the movie but use avs script instead ( BlackClip + Subtitle ). I do it for better compatibility with different players, and, BTW it helps in the case, when some players cut last 2-3 seconds of the movie.

[Kb_cruncher]

yes.avisynth can do many cool things.i played around with it and put short thumbnail clips and my own logo at the start of some of my svcd's.I don't remember the scripts now but i'll try and dig them up.

[jorel]

hi again migor
:)

see, more than 298 views in this thread(at the moment)!

your prog will be useful of course.

ps:
"One-click setting of Fade in and Fade out for each disc"
"Automatic splitting of the movie into 1-3 CD's"
"Visual adjustment of split and cut points"
:cool:

[Kb_cruncher]

I have tryed SVCDBuilder using procoder,all goes well until procoder starts.Procoder produces an error saying "the selected item can not be added to the target list".I followd the installation instructions and set the global folder of procoder to the same as svcdbuilders first folder.I'm not sure how to fix this.Any help would be appreciated.
Other than this i realy like SVCDBuilder and will be using it for all my s(vcd) creation from now on,once i get it to work ok that is
:)

[Kb_cruncher]

I found that if i click out of the error message then select the basic mpeg target profile,SVCDBuilder will then set the encoding parameters and carry onto create the image(s) successfully.

[migor]

Hi, Kb_cruncher!
Can you send me the print screen photo of the "Add target" list (where basic mpeg target appear), when you get an error message ? My E-Mail link is in the About box of the program.

[Kb_cruncher]

Will do as soon as this encode finishes,which will be some time cos procoder should be called slowcoder,a measly 5 fps on a 2.3gig tbred:eek:

[migor]

Hi, kb_cruncher!
You can download the update for ProCoder MPEG engine here:
http://mirror01.iptelecom.net.ua/~video/
Find "Canopus.MPEG-2.SoftEngine.v3.0". It's faster.
I hope, that I've fixed "Add target" bug.
So, new version V2.1.2.1 is out. It has improvements and new options -to avoid using still images.

Please let me know about any expected bugs.

Regards,

[Kb_cruncher]

I am using the latest update of svcdbuilder and the new procoder engine and all is fine now,thankyou.Procoder speed is no better though:( ,I will just have to be patient i suppose:rolleyes:

I am going to do some manual tests with the aviwrapper that is bundled with ffvfw codec soon,i will also try yv12 input via mpeg2dec3 and see if procoder supports it too,i know cce does not.This should add a litle speed to procoder.....i hope.

[migor]

cb_cruncher, hi !
I's strange, that you have so slow encoding speed. For me it acheives 13-14 fps with NTSC sources (SVCD format)(For PAL it's slower) on my old 1GHZ T-bird ! I guess, your problem is that you use unregistered (demo) version of the Link2 - it has speed limitation just about value you get! But if you will install "normal" version, it is faster, than VFAPI codec.

[Kb_cruncher]

migor,I am using the full version of link2 v0.95,i tried manually creating the wrapper without the wav to see if that made a differenc but it did not.
One thing i did notice is that when procoder is converting my cpu usage is at 100% but procoder is only using betwen 10-30% of that and the rest is being taken up by the "system idle process" so it seems procoder is not using all available cpu power to encode???

I tried using cce but svcdbuilder says"could not find cce main window" I am using cce v2.66.

[migor]

OK. Link2 v0.95 - 0.951 doesn't work for me at all ! Procoder gets it, but preview window is empty and mpg file size is 0. However, Link2 v0.942 works very well.
What's about CCE - it have to work. It was tested on different machines ! Which exactly version do you use? And what is the Procoder version? Is CCE starts, before you get an error message?

[Kb_cruncher]

I have upgraded to the full version of link2 v0.95 but the speed restrictions stay in place.
I created a tpr file with tmpeg from the svcdbuilder avs file and created a VFAPI avi with that.I am getting 22fps and 99% cpu usage with this avi in procoder so link2 is definatly the cause of my low speeds.

The cce version i use is 2.66.01.01 and yes cce starts before i get the error mesage from svcdbuilder.I'm not sure why this happens unless svcdbuilder uses cce ECL files.

My procoder version is 1.01.35.0

[migor]

Fine, kb_cruncher.
I'll add the VFAPI support to avoid those "version" problems.
My CCE version is 2.66.07. I would like ask you to check some points, so, drop e-mail to me and I'll send you the tool for checking.

[migor]

New update - V2.1.2.2
Added exclusive MPEG-1 support.
For CCE 2.66 - CBR mode only.

[Kb_cruncher]

Cool.I will check it out asap.Thanks for that.I like using mpeg1 and used to get awsome quality on my old P3 733 but ever since i switched to the AMD platform my mpeg1 encodes have never been the same.I get combing,stepping artifacts below svcd res.I have been trying to find out why for the better part of a year now but no luck yet.I'm pretty sure it has something to do with AMD but other than that,i have no idea.

[Kb_cruncher]

Is it possible to add a format conversion option,say 25fps=>23.976fps.
I can do this with avisynth's "assumefps(23.976,true)".The "true" synchs the audio aswell,but this is useless as procoder will just change it back again as per instructions from svcdbuilder.

[migor]

I have never done such conversion.
Will it be enough just to set ProCoder's target to the needed format?
It's simple enough to be done.
I don't want to change script generation yet, it's in my future plans because it may take a while. First, I want to complete tasks like XML generation improvement.

[Kb_cruncher]

Yes,it would be enough to be able to set procoders target frame rate.

[migor]

It's done. Check the new update. NTSC to PAL and PAL to NTSC conversion by ProCoder is added. The conversion checkbox is on the "Project" page. Testing is needed.

[Ripper24]

coud you repost the link please ???
Ripper24

[Kb_cruncher]

Thankyou migor,i will test soon.
I have just finishes my first movie using svcdbuilder from start to finish and have comes across some bugs.

-When splitting to 2 cd's and choosing audio rate other than 224,the first cd will encode with the rate i set but the second cd was encoded at 224.It seems the original setting is not carried over to the second cd.

-When muxing,the final images are over 900Mb.I believe this is because while muxing with non svcd bitrates,buffer under runs are detected and extra bites are needed for padding.I find that under runs do not appear if the mux rate is set to 0.

-The logos ect for start,end of cd are not in spec.VCDEasy tells me that the intro mpeg needs to be padded adding extra data to the disc,de multiplexing and re multiplexing with mux rate at 0 should fix this.Also the change cd and "the end" mpegs are too short according to vcdeasy,i think the spec is 400kbits or 4 seconds.

Also i get "non mpeg1 audio header seen"messages while images are being created.Do you know what this means?

Is it possible to create the chapter text file without any other part of the proccess being neccessary?

Do you have any links for SVCD logos,intro downloads ect.I have tryed searching for some but have not come across any.I have created my own with cool3D and avisynth before but am not too good with creating graphics.

sorry for the long post:D

[migor]

First, I repost the link:
http://www.svcdbuilder.vze.com

Kb_cruncher, thanks for the reply.
-When splitting to 2 cd's and choosing audio rate other than 224...
I never had this issue, but will check it yet.
-When muxing,the final images are over 900Mb...
I suppose, the encoder was ProCoder?
Are you sure, that 2 pass VBR or CBR mode was used? At 1pass VBR mode ProCoder doesn't keep an average bitrate (file size). What were calculated mpv and mpa file sizes? The muxer - the mux rate is set to 0, align seq. headers unchecked.
-The logo, change cd and "the end" mpegs...
The logo and mpeg stills are working, but you are right, maybe it's need to reencode them. Will you try to do this at spare time?
- "non mpeg1 audio header seen" - I don't know why, but this message appears always (not depends on SVCDbuilder is used or not and which encoder is used) .
Is it possible to create the chapter text file...
Yes, it is possible, I'll check this option.
-links for SVCD logos...
At the moment, I can't say anything about it. But I want to add an options to compose the logo by AVS script with one of image loader plugins.
If you still have problems, please send me all Builder's log files!

[Kb_cruncher]

I will save all the log files from the next svcd and pass them on,see if i can duplicate anything.
I used procoder vbr 2pass,2 cd,audio 192kbps,min 1300kbps-max2800kbps.

Buffer underruns are a(solution waiting to happen) problem at high bitrates,if the muxer does not give a high enough mux rate then the underruns will pass to the author software(vcdimager)needing to be padded which makes playback very choppy and the final bin file bigger.So far the only muxer which has never given me any is the modified mplex from tscv.I will see if this happens again.

I only got the odd audio message with any other method i have used,strange.

The intro has nul audio making de and re muxing(solution waiting to happen) problematic,i will create an empty wav and encode that for the audio and remux.

There does not seem to be many web pages hosting svcd,vcd intro's,logos ect.I have some that i have created so i will host them soon.I created a blank clip with overlayed thumbnail clips from the movie and my own animated logo exported to avi,all done with one avs script and encoded to mpeg.

[migor]

Ok.
I must say, that I always get proper files sizes after 2 pass encoding with both Procoder or CCE.
But the mmgrover muxer I never used for making SVCDs, only for testing. Earlier I used bbMPEG muxer, but now I prefer only I-Author's one. It adds less padding than bbMPEG, and SVCD haven't problems at low bitrates.With default setting of CD size (80min) I (And all my friends) get something like 804 MB *.bin for the first CD (with mpeg logo) and 801MB for second. Slightly overburned, but it's well.
In the case of bbMPEG, with same setting I get up to 809 MB. What is the muxer of tscv? I didn't find it in this program, it seems to be built-in. What's about logo - as it will be good option to add avs blank with overlayed graphic?

[migor]

New update is out - V2.1.3.1
Added an option for AVS script customization

[xiaomeng_zhao]

Tucows will give you an active advice, try the popular one
Tucows: http://www.tucows.com/mmedia/preview/224587.html

[migor]

New update - V2.1.3.2
Added support for the multiplexor "mplex.exe" from "Mjpeg Tools" package.

[FredThompson]

Comments, questions, kudos:

Configuration screen on the web page does not match the current release. That's a minor issue because it is easy to determine what the added entries are EXCEPT pulldown.

The page that lists required programs makes no mention of pulldown.

What is this and where is it located?

--

Is it possible to use a short video segment instead of text to prompt for a disc swap? I'd far prefer the spinning disc held by gloved hand piece that's used by DVD2SVCD with an XML loop. Is this possible?

--

How soon will this support an AVI file, not just DVD rips? Looks like it could be a killer way to do encoding from captured source.

--

Interface looks far nicer than DVD2SVCD. Kudos.

[migor]

Thanks, Fred !

The site is updated now, pictures are replaced and added one more.
I just forgot about Pulldown utility, sorry, it's OK now.

It is possible to use mpeg still segment at the end of disc to prompt for a disc swap - you must only click the toolbar button with picture icon.

What's about AVI support...
I think, that it's not too hard achieve, but first I want to eliminate all existing problems and to do all planned additions.
And also, all suggestions about AVI support and current improvements will be very useful.

[FredThompson]

I realized, after I typed, that DVD2SVCD ships with a static image. That image comes from the TurnCD animations: http://www.chez.com/ripitall/turncd.htm

They don't have all the proper resolutions. I can generate them if you wish. Perhaps the option to put these before the text screen?

I'm looking for a way to do batch conversion of AVI files. It's incredibly awkward to do this with AVI2SVCD. Last night I made a CVD from DV source and it took about 2 hours at CBR. Would be great to put, say, 5 items in a queue and let it run overnight.

Would you be willing to add a way to directly specify an AVI instead of DVD? My guess is the process is the same after the frameserver is configured for DVD source.

[FredThompson]

I just looked and the webpage is showing broken links to the first two install screengrabs. Maybe you used different filenames?

[vhelp]

@ FredThompson,

offtopic..
* what's wrong w/ using TMPG for batch processing your clips ??

* or how about vdub's ability ??

-vhelp

[FredThompson]

TMPGEnc is not as good as CCE, takes longer, and doesn't support BeSweet.

I've used TMPGEnc queue quite a bit but not for this type of application.

[migor]

It's a good idea -batch processing. I thought about this, and first of all it requires to store many parameters and then restore them properly, in other words, "Save project" and "Open project". It is the first task, that must be done and I'll try to do it. After that adding of AVI and batch processing will be possible.

What about mpeg stills, I have four mpgs in the package, but mpegs contain only black background with text. If you have a nice working mpegs (for pal and ntsc) I would like to add them into the package.

Regards,

[FredThompson]

Perhaps you'd want to make it driven by a text file at first then, after it's tested, could do a GUI list builder.

Maybe "profile" would be the best way to describe the settings.

There could be two initial "commands" for the batch; "load profile" and "source name."

You're right, there are lots of variables possible but if it's kept to 1 disc and the same filename, should be easier to start because there are fewer variables.

No, make that 3 initial commands. There needs to be a way to specify if iVTC should be applied...unless that's automatically tested for NTSC source.

Granted, I'm thinking of how I would use it. I'd set up each source as it's own VirtualDub framserving session and use the same "profile" for all jobs. (Hmmm...guess there'd need to be some kind of target-size-based-on-time aspect. Maybe low, high, avg bitrates?)

You know, the profile stuff wouldn't be important for initial testing. With my scenario, those settings could be entered manually then the filename list launched. That might be a good place to start. I'll be more than willing to help test any of this.

--

sample video is in the link I posted earlier. I can easily take that and make whatever formats you'd desire. The resolutions are non-standard but it's easy enough to crop and letterbox as needed. Maybe it would look cool to have the disc spin followed by a static shot of the last frame, subdued, with your text super-imposed. Man, that would look slick.

[migor]

Ok, Fred.

In my vision, every task from the list could be full (I mean count of discs, bitrates, image perameters and so on...). May be, for better understanding, you can write a scenario in the text form, how do you see it and send to me (maybe by e-mail). I'll reply later, because now I'm on the work and have no time...

[FredThompson]

I agree with you, ultimately.

My point was just that if you reduce the number of variables initially, it's going to be a lot easier to code and test. After the first few variables are working, then the possibilities are expanded.

Quite summary example of what I'm thinking:

LoadProfile anyname.txt
DoJob file1.ext
DoJob file2.ext

LoadProfile reads all variables from text file anyname.txt
DoJob loads filename(.avi default) and starts encoding job. When one line is done, the next is executed. EOF means it stops and is back to regular mode (but settings aren't reset.)

Other ideas start to get more into human factoring. I'll think about it. What I've just described should work just fine for single-disc batch of analog grabs from TV shows. It's a start. Multiple discs creates more questions like how to automatically decide where a scene split is, that kind of thing.

I'll kick the ideas around and maybe scribble some things out for more complex stuff.

[migor]

Hello,
Fred, I'm working on it. But first I'm adding VFAPIreader support, it will be ready tomorrow or a day later, and guys help me to do an extensive program testing.

Regards,

[FredThompson]

I'll help test whenever you'd like. Thanks.