DVD Shrink and IC

[mcentee]

Anyone tried this combination yet :

1) DVD Shrink seems perfect for creating a "fully compliant DVD" - just reauthor using the full size of all PGC's. This must be quicker that ripping, IFOEDiting etc however it would only do either Movie only or whatever PGC's you want to keep - but not menu's.

2) Use IC to encode down to the right size - IC seems to be voted the best quality by most people on here.

Anyone tried it yet ?

[neo_sapien]

The problem is, IC would never fill you up to 4.37 GB.

[mcentee]

There are plentry of threads explaining how to get a closer fit - and also indicating that IC is still better (perceived) quality at the lower file sizes.

If you use DVD Shrink for the encoding as well, you still nearly always end up with file sizes less than 4.38 Gb anyway....... :)

[filmking]

The problem is, IC would never fill you up to 4.37 GB.


I'm using a video projector which puts up a picture 11'x6' so its very easy to tell what is a good picture. It baffles me that a movie copied by IC7 which turns out to be 3.58GB in size, is distinctly sharper and much nicer and pleasing to watch than the same dvd copied by DVD SHRINK which produced a 4.2GB size. It's not the size of the file, but what you see up on the screen that counts. DVD SHRINK sure is easy to use and more accurate in its size results, but the IC7 picture is better and I still have room to load in some of the extras. I hope DVD SHRINK can improve its encoding quality... IC7 is clearly the winner here.

[digitalman]

DVDSHRINK is fast, but it's quality does not compare to IC 7. I would rather wait 1.5 hours for a great quality DVD, than 20 minutes for a decent looking one.

[Grover]

Having always used IC7 for everything, I now find myself using Shrink where I can stay at Level 1 or Level 2 for main movie. Given the time saved, the quality is fairly much the same as IC7 (to me anyway)

Otherwise I use Shrink to prepare the DVD for IC7 by compressing the guts out of all the extras and menus, leaving the main movie at Zero compression. Then I encode it in Shrink and then run the result thru IC7 to encode the main movie.

Since reading various guides on IC7 sizing I have found that if I set it to a predicted output size of 4.562GB I have since gotten file sizes of 4,650,000KB and higher. I read all the things about calculators and recording files sizes and spreadsheets, (I got this 4.562GB figure from one of the spreadsheets) but for me at least, just setting the predicted total size to this number works like a charm.

NOTE: this does not account for movies with black bars. Nothing can save these. I am wrestiling with BEING JOHN MALKOVICH at the moment and with a starting main movie size of 5.56GB, the best either Shrink or IC7 has been able to get is 3.53GB from IC7 (set at 99.97%) and 3.62GB from Shrink. (choices in Shrink were 4.53GB @ L2 or 3.62 @ L3. I know it's been said many times before but it would be GREAT if more flexibilty could added into the chioces of compression in Shrink)

I agree with the many other people who have said that at HIGHER COMPRESSIONS, IC7 is clearly more.... clear than Shrink. Even when the IC7, files size is much less. Neither are fantastic, but IC7 seems to go for grainy-ness over the blocky-ness of Shrink, making it much easier on the eye.

If I have to go above (or should that be below) L2 in Shrink for the main movie then I use IC7 to encode that.

Cheers..

[MackemX]

Grover what version of DVDShrink are you using?

1.03 has more levels and should really offer something between 4.53 & 3.62 (I'm surprised if you are using 1.03)

and it's the 2.35:1 movies that IC cannot deal with, so it's best you use DVDShrink cos it will love the black bars cos that's where it can save so much space so the actual image quality is not that bad

p.s. using a fixed setting of 4.562Gb is not the right way to setup IC if you have read the numerous guides :). I can tell you now that a 4:3 will oversize and a 2.35:1 will undersize if you use that setting but it will work for most 1.85:1 anarmorphic titles depending on original size

the setting all depends on the video-only 'true' size & format along with the predicted size as to what you set it to

[Grover]

Grover what version of DVDShrink are you using?
1.03 has more levels and should really offer something between 4.53 & 3.62 (I'm surprised if you are using 1.03)

Have only ever used version 1.03. This movie just will not get close no matter what I tried in either. The best I ended up getting was in IC7. I set the extras to 100% and the main movie to 99.97% and got back 3.92GB. I burnt it, watched it. It's OK. Time to move on.

Out of interest does anyone know if compression Level 3 in version 1.03 DVDShrink is the same as level 2 in version 1.02. ie - the current L2 is equivalent to a Level 1.5 in the old version. (and is the current level 4 like what would have been 3.5 in the original(if that makes sense)

I found a post in one of the forums from DVDShrink explaining the methodolgy of the transcoding in DVDShrink 1.02 with it's then four levels to choose from. And anther post when he released version 1.03 saying that it has an extra four levels. But nothing to say how these levels fitted into / around the original four. Does anyone know ?



I can tell you now that a 4:3 will oversize and a 2.35:1 will undersize if you use that setting but it will work for most 1.85:1 anarmorphic titles depending on original size

I believe you. But it's working fairly good forme so far. I just finished doing 3000 Miles to Graceland and it did oversize by about 48MB. I just chopped off the last 15-20 seconds of the credits and away we go. (truth be known, I just too lazy to be bothered with the calculators each time). :D

Cheers...

[MackemX]

check out mrbass's excellent DVDShrink guide and the compression settings

http://www.mrbass.org/dvdshrink/

as for being lazy, if 5 mins is too much to ask to check figures then :confused:

:D

[Grover]

I must have a great streak of luck going.

I just woke up this morning and checked my I_AM_SAM encode of 5.35GB I set before bedtime (at 4.52GB naturally :cool: ) and it came out at
4,698,323,297. That's close enough for me.

I know it CAN'T be this simple all the time and that people waaaayyyy smarter than me have spent considerable time in creating the calculators and spreadsheets. (and I know it must be annoying you that I don't take the time to learn the calcs). I guess I will when I get enough un-fixable encodes back. But until then....)

I'm about to set Finding Forrester on it's merry way in IC7, so I'll let you know how that end up when I get home from work.

Cheers...

UPDATE:
The streak continues. With Finding Forrester I backed off a little and set to only a predicted size of 4.5GB even (MisterX is starting to make me paranoid).
End result 4,505,240,940. Not bad for lazy man. ;) I could re-run it and set it a little higher but why bother. Burn it and move on to he next one I say...

[MackemX]

Grover, I thougt you said you used 4.562Gb as your magic figure yet you just used 4.52Gb :)

anything around 4.5Gb for a widescreen movie will probably always undersize less than 4.37Gb if IC is anywhere near the estimatation for the true video size

you will find that most movies when resized correctly and have the sizes confirmed will have a range of 4.48Gb to 4.55Gb (0.7Gb window)

you don't annoy me in any way, but you do make me laugh cos you think you are lucky :) and yes it really is that simple to get under 4.37Gb by guessing

but the skill is filling the DVD to the max :cool:

set it to 4.48Gb each time any you will be guaranteed to get between 4.25Gb & 4.37Gb for anything not fullscreen (this will oversize) or 2:35:1 (this will undersize)

When the resulting size falls outside this range that's because IC reported the wrong original size in the beginning or it has fullscreen, letterbox, 2.35:1 format

your Finding Forrestor result of 4.19Gb is an example of this, 0.18Gb is a waste in my eyes and this has been caused by either you having the 2.35:1 format of the DVD or the 1.85:1 format size has been incorrectly reported by IC

but that's irrelevant as long as you are happy and enjoy the rest of your backups :)

[Grover]

Originally posted by MisterX
Grover, I thougt you said you used 4.562Gb as your magic figure yet you just used 4.52Gb :)

Correct. (typo by me) Should be 4.526 This figure I got from the prediction calculator spreadsheet of mrbass's as per below. I realise that your supposed to do a heap of other stuff as well. But I thought, let's try this and see how close it gets. So far it's been going good.

IC Predicts 4.37
DVDSaveQuality 0
Risk Factor 100
Set it to 4.526

but the skill is filling the DVD to the max

Taking a step back from all this for a moment and looking at the bigger picture, Isn't the REAL issue that Pinnacle should be more pro-active in fixing these problems. This is a commercial product. If I buy a new car, I don't expect to have make every eigth turn I do a left one otherwise the car will stop working or crash due to a design fault.... When I make toast, I expect to get back the same size piece of bread that I put in to begin with. I don't cut my bread to an oversize slice in the hope it will be about the right size for my plate when it's done. I can't think of any more bad analogies right now, but you see my point.

but that's irrelevant as long as you are happy and enjoy the rest of your backups :)

I am. And I do.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by Grover
Taking a step back from all this for a moment and looking at the bigger picture, Isn't the REAL issue that Pinnacle should be more pro-active in fixing these problems. This is a commercial product. If I buy a new car, I don't expect to have make every eigth turn I do a left one otherwise the car will stop working or crash due to a design fault.... When I make toast, I expect to get back the same size piece of bread that I put in to begin with. I don't cut my bread to an oversize slice in the hope it will be about the right size for my plate when it's done. I can't think of any more bad analogies right now, but you see my point.
quite right too, but what can we do about it?

nothing at the mo but complain and adjust it accordingly :(

you can either stick with a figure that will probably get you under 4.37GB but will still waste space or try to get the best outta the current situation

choice is upto the user what's they want to do :)

I have again been posting onto the Pinnacle Support forum HERE (http://webboard.pinnaclesys.com/read_messages.asp?WebboardID=1&ForumID=877&SectionID=170&ThreadID=138746&ThreadStart=0&Pos=0&cntThread=192&lng=1) again hoping they will get the point of what to look at and fix