Needed hardware for perfect quality video capturing?

[snowbeach]

1. I have read some threads regarding video capturing and the needed hardware at this forum, and from my understanding of this stuff, most people suggest to use a vivo VGA card. Is that right?

2. While I also read this comment at the www.tvtool.info website...
Often you can hear that one had to reach for the 7108 because this was the only chip with video input. The question is if such an input is really suitable for your purposes. Two things should be taken into consideration: The quality of such an input will not be satisfying for engaged video processing. For example real time compression in Motion-JPEG is not supported at full resolution with this kind of chips. Special video cards like the Miro-DC series is much better for this purpose. Web cams are connected to the USB port mostly. So the field of use for such a video input is limited.

3. Companies that offer this conversions for a fee (about 45,- EUR for a DVD) use DVD recorders like Phillips' DVDR 1000 MK II which costs about 1.800,- EUR - quite a lot!

And as I am interested in capturing my Hi8 and VHS tapes to a digital format to archive them and to watch them on a DVD standalone player, I am not sure what kind of hardware I have to buy to get a perfect 1:1 copy without any quality loss... :confused:

BTW. At the moment I use a Sapphire Radeon 9500 128MB with TV-Out (red board layout :D)! And I have to say that the chip for TV-Out of ATI cards is better than the one of Conexant, Chrontel or Phillips! Against most opinions, I suppose! :p ;)

[Ookami]

For someone who asks questions (with the loved word "perfect"), you know very much "At the moment I use a Sapphire Radeon 9500 128MB with TV-Out (red board layout )! And I have to say that the chip for TV-Out of ATI cards is better than the one of Conexant, Chrontel or Phillips! Against most opinions, I suppose!". :rolleyes:

If you read the forum you will find opinions like:

"ATI and Matrox have the best TV outs", certainly no (or very few) opinions like "the TNT cards have good TV outs". Back then when I still followed the quality of GPUs as multimedia cards I knew only of the Geforce MX that had a acceptable TV out quality (ok, the Elsa Erazor III is an exception, but it always was). ATI and Matrox always had very good TV out quality, don't care/know how the situation is today ;) .

To answer your questions:

1.) No! Read the threads, again! GPUs are inexpensive compared to the rest out there and give to most people acceptable quality. It all depends on many factors, your money, time, available other hardware etc. etc.

2.) LOL That is funny. MJPEG capture cards are toys to play with and cannot be considered as a serious choice (just like the majority of the things we see/use). A professional capture card costs more than a high end PC. I always find it funny when people called the DC cards professional.

3.) This is because of the time issue. Altough, I would recommend you to look at the majority of the companies as most of them do editing too (they mostly use Workstations+direct DVD compliant capture cards).

> I am not sure what kind of hardware I have to buy to get a perfect 1:1 copy without any quality loss...

None, as you'll always have quality loss. Everyone who says "perfect 1:1 copy" is: a) talking BS b) a marketing person .

Why don't you use your ATI card for startes?

Oh, and, BTW it's Philips, not Phillips.

Cheers,

Mijo.

[snowbeach]

Thanks for your answer so far!

How to use my ATI card without video-in for capturing video of my Hi8 films? :confused:

A friend of mine is going to borrow me his Pinnacle Systems Studio PCTV Pro card! He never used it! So he cannot tell me anything about it! Have you heard something about this card? Is this a direct DVD compliant capture card? If not, what kind of cards would you suggest in the end?

Do you think it is a better solution to use this card or another direct DVD capture card or to borrow a standaone DVD recorder like the Panasonic DMR-HS2?


BTW. Philips! Yes, you're right! ;)

[snowbeach]

Oh man, it's not that easy to find the right hardware...

Ok. I read a bit through the forum and this is my conclusion:
First of all, what do I want? I want to convert my VHS and Hi8 tapes to a DVD with nearly DVD quality. Ok. I know that it is not possible, but I want to make the best out of it! :rolleyes:
Some people are delighted by the Canopus ADVC-100, which should give very good quality! I also read that my Pinnacle card (should be Conexant Fusion 878A chip, I think this is the BT878, but not sure) is not the best solution, if my goal is very good quality. But I have to see, if it is good enough for the quality of my tapes!

Well, what would you suggest? I have not very good quality of my VHS tapes, and the quality of my Hi8 tapes is normal! Normal means nothing special, just taking a Hi8 tape and filming a bit boring people. ;)
Should I try my Pinnacle ;) or would you say do not waste your time with it and go for the ADVC-100 or a standalone DVD recorder? Or would you say go for....?

Appreciate your comments...

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>A friend of mine is going to borrow me his Pinnacle Systems Studio PCTV Pro card! He never used it! So he cannot tell me anything about it! Have you heard something about this card? Is this a direct DVD compliant capture card? If not, what kind of cards would you suggest in the end?
Do you think it is a better solution to use this card or another direct DVD capture card or to borrow a standaone DVD recorder like the Panasonic DMR-HS2?


bt8x8 card is a nice one (this PCTV you spoke about),teamed up with
proper driver (i think mfr's drivers are ok...if it's not too old)
you'll hardly beat it...with anything.....
(a "pro" device in my eyes would be bt8x8's a/d converter,but with
pure RGB support (bt8x8 is YUY2).....needles to say,hilarious bitrates
are to expect with this RGB setup....ie."pro" means uncompressed
RGB video that is unpractical for home user...120GB hdd's would be
too small for this.....)

it's true what mijo said for hardware mjpeg cards (heck,you can
use mjpeg with bt8x8 cards comfortably...)but you can go step further
with bt8x8 too :huffyuv is lossless YUY2 capturing (and best you can get on bt8x8)
hardware mjpeg is always hardware mjpeg...(and there are lots of them
that use bt8x8 as front end...so you would be paying hardware mjpeg
even though you can get one as a software solution for bt8x8...silly,isn't it......)

720x480 as produced by bt8x8 card should be completely dvd
compliant; it has correct resolution and it has ways to tweak it
if you have some AR offset (if you compare tv image to dvd image...
hmmm..i shouldn't be mentioning this....forget it,and you'll sleep easier...hehe)


>and from my understanding of this stuff, most people suggest to use a vivo VGA card. Is that right?

this is why i propose to erase those two links (to threads) that suggest combo cards are good solution......
for the most of the time,they are not....

>borrow a standaone DVD recorder like the Panasonic DMR-HS2

i believe this one can't produce good images;it's on the fly
mpeg2 encoding,so..........
(you can try it,but i doubt it'll look beter than bt8x8 rips)

if you have access to the bt8x8 card (and you do) ask no questions;
first try that.........

[Ookami]

@snowbeach

How much money do you have?
How much time?
Do you want the best quality possible?

And as a last point, if you can borrow something, why say "no"? Even if it would be the cheapest card out there, maybe it's enough for you! If you don't like the quality, just search for something else.

Has your ATI a TV-in? If yes, just use your ATI...

[snowbeach]

Thank you guys for answering my questions!

I will give the Pinnacle card a try! BTW. I have to leave Overlay activated, otherwise the capturing stuff does not work. I think this means that it is a Philips chip and not the Conexant BT8x8!

Money is no problem! I have a good sponsor! ;)
I have very less time to read all the stuff about video capturing and to spend some time on testing. That is why I need your experiences, regarding this topic, to share with me!
And yes, I want the best quality possible!

My ATI has no TV-in ... :(

I will post my results here... maybe this evening!

[Ookami]

@snowbeach

>And yes, I want the best quality possible!

Who doesn't? The question was/more or less a joke question :) . And, if you have no infinite time and money, the best quality is not achievable.

So, as money is no issue and time is, I would suggest you to buy a high end direct MPEG2 capture card (so you don't have to encode your captured stuff, again). Buy a good DVD authoring program and make your DVDs :) .

Erm, when I think of it, how about paying some pro's to make the conversions? As it would be better and easier. I would vote against those you've mentioned. Use your Pinnacle card first and then let them convert one VHS, after that you can compare.

But, in the end, I think the cheap BT card should be enough for you.

Cheers,

Mijo.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

Originally posted by snowbeach
Thank you guys for answering my questions!

I will give the Pinnacle card a try! BTW. I have to leave Overlay activated, otherwise the capturing stuff does not work. I think this means that it is a Philips chip and not the Conexant BT8x8!

it's written on the chip itself,have a look....
bt8x8 can't capture full res with overlay on....
wdm or vfw it's the same;
only wdm has better preview with "smart-tee"...

[snowbeach]

@Ookami

What high end direct MPEG2 capture card and DVD authoring program would you suggest then?
Or was this a joke again? ;)

What is your price? :D


@^^-+I4004+-^^

I am a bit confused: On the card itself is a box with the name Philips and at the end of the box are the TV and radio inputs!
On the card itself is also a chip on which I can find the words: Conexant Fusion 878A! Well, I do not know whether it is now the BT878 chip or the Philips! :confused:

BTW. Can BT8x8 captuer full res with non-overlay?


PS: Now I am working with the "Fast 'n Easy Capture Guide" by rmxdell which I found at the german Doom9 site! The other guide based on VDub and Huffyuv was not working, so I gave up!
Maybe I will give it a try again...

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

it's bt8x8 OK...
bt8x8 can capture 768x576 with non-overlay,yes

there are 2 approaches:
easy one (mpeg2 capturing with hardware card)
hard one (avi capture and encoding to mpeg2 afterwards)

hard one will give better image with proper settings,
but it's your choice on the end of the day....

most of us here have years of experience so
"hard way" is not quite so hard for us...
it's pure pleasure for me....
(as i can control every bit of process....)

[snowbeach]

Problems over problems... :(

First of all, my system and the important hardware needed for capturing:

Athlon Thunderbird 900MHz (maybe I need more)
Memory: 384MB SDRAM
WesternDigital 120GB, 8MB Cache, 7200rpm (WD1200JB)
Pinnacle Studio PCTVpro TV card


Tried the easy way ("The Fast 'n Easy Capture Guide" by rmxdell):
I followed all the tasks of the guide regarding the options of the System Settings! Applied then and PowerVCR closed automatically. Trying to restart it was not possible! I had to uninstall PowerVCR and install it again, so that I can try it again to get the same weird result! :confused:


Tried the hard way (Doom9's "Capture Guide" by BaronVlad):
Everything is fine until I want to set up the video format! I think my TV card does not support a res of 720x576 and 384x576! If I choose these res, I always get the nice "Error 418: Unsupported video format."! Ok. Then go for 384x288! Yes that is what I want! :(
The audio was not captured! But this issue is not important to me at the moment, because first of all I want to reach the Full PAL res. (Has it soemthing to do with the fact that the TV card has only an audio output?)


I am going for the hard way, because I believe it will give me better results, but if there were not this res issue...

It seems that I have to buy new hardware! What would you suggest?

[Ookami]

Forum search!

What colorspace have you choosen?

>It seems that I have to buy new hardware! What would you suggest?

If you're going to give up after a few days of testing then this is REALLY not for you! The hard stuff is coming when you must test dozens of filters, codec/program settings etc. etc.

As you said that money is no issue; pay some professionals to do the conversion for you and be happy.

Old stuff:

>What high end direct MPEG2 capture card and DVD authoring program would you suggest then?

About the card, don't know, only saw one demonstration of one of those (a high end Canopus card, BTW), I suggest you to check Scuba's site and the capture user tests on dvdrhelp.com .

DVD authoring, as you're a newbie I would suggest you Spruce Up DVD or Ulead DVD Workshop.

>What is your price?

Usually a dinner and smalltalk :D .

[snowbeach]

After a time of reading tests, searching for information through the net, I found my hw to go for video capturing (VHS & Hi8) in Full PAL:
Suggestions, experiences or "rumours" ;) regarding the hw/sw are welcome!

HW:
Canopus ADVC-1394 (capture card)
NEC ND-1100A (DVD+R/W ReWriter (4xDVD+R, 2,4xDVD+RW))

SW (not sure, which OEM version I should use, help appreciated):
Adobe Premiere 6
Canopus ProCoder
Pinnacle Studio 8 SE
DVD-authoring with Pinnacle Impressions
or something else??

One more time thank you very much in advance! :D

[Ookami]

>Canopus ADVC-1394 (capture card)

AFAIK (don't own it):

Macrovision not disableable
Issues with bad signals (just like the ADVC 100 etc.)

-capturing DV

Doesn't matter wich software. I use Premiere. It matters tough, use a software that captures DV type 2...

-Encoding to DVD spec

I use TMPGEnc Pro, it's much cheaper than ProCoder and gives great results (slow, though).

-DVD authoring

Easy to use:

Spruce Up
DVDlab
Ulead DVD Workshop

Harder to use (and much more expensive):

Maestro
Scenarist

User comments on capture hardware:

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/capturecards
http://www.dvdrhelp.com/capturecards.php?CaptureCardRead=Canopus%20ADVC-1394&Search=Search

Cheers,

Ookie.

[snowbeach]

Could you suggest a similar capture card without these issues?

PS: I have only home videos, so Macrovision is no issue in my case. Right?
And what kind of bad signals, maybe I have to deal with? I read something about dropped frames...

[Ookami]

>Could you suggest a similar capture card without these issues?

Yes and no. Again, I didn't tested the ADVC-1394 so I would hate if you take my word for granted. Read the user reports on DVDRHELP, search for reviews etc.

IIRC, I've already suggested that you first try out your BT card and only after that go for a more expensive solution.

Every capture card will have issues with very bad signals, in my experience the ADVC more than my old cards. But, Swan has pointed me to a setting that I should change that should change the whole deal.

My baddest tape I own couldn't be capture with any of these cars I own, so it's the safest way to buy a TBC like the Datavideo TBC 1000 and use it with every card you use. But for that money (card+TBC+DVD burner) you can convert many VHS tapes to DVD and not waste your time with this whole stuff.

Again, it all depends. Some people see/hear everything, other say that VCD is HQ and MP3 @ 128 kbit is CD quality...

>PS: I have only home videos, so Macrovision is no issue in my case. >Right?

Yes.

>And what kind of bad signals, maybe I have to deal with? I read >something about dropped frames...

Check the TBC link in the FAQ and use a search engine...

Cheers,

Ookie.

[snowbeach]

First of all thank you very much for your time and your patience in answering my (sometimes stupid) questions!

In the end I learned something and I found a good solution!
The person/vendor, from whom I wanted to buy the Canopus ADVC-1394, provided a good offer to capture my home videos for 79,- EUR (13 DVDs - 240 min video, 52 GB - and pure DV type 2 material).
So OOkie, I listened to you, and I am going to pay this professional. I think this is the best solution to get HQ DV material in my case.
Afterwards, I can compress/encode and author the material the way I like with the SW I am going to purchase.

Greets.

[Ookami]

>First of all thank you very much for your time and your patience in answering my (sometimes stupid) questions!

Glad it did help :) . BTW, your question were not stupid, especially as you've did your share of research and reading...

>The person/vendor, from whom I wanted to buy the Canopus ADVC-1394, provided a good offer to capture my home videos for 79,- EUR (13 DVDs - 240 min video, 52 GB - and pure DV type 2 material).

I would recommend you to give him the crappiest tape first and test it/see the captured material. So you will not be dissapointed, there are many people who do this conversions so you could find another one if this one doesn't fits your needs, quality wise.

>Afterwards, I can compress/encode and author the material the way I like with the SW I am going to purchase

Yes, and you can also make your own DVD authoring with menus of your choice etc. Like always, it depends on you not on anyone else.

All the best and take care,

Mijo.

[John2002]

Originally posted by snowbeach
Oh man, it's not that easy to find the right hardware...


Well, what would you suggest? I have not very good quality of my VHS tapes, and the quality of my Hi8 tapes is normal! Normal means nothing special, just taking a Hi8 tape and filming a bit boring people. ;)
Should I try my Pinnacle ;) or would you say do not waste your time with it and go for the ADVC-100 or a standalone DVD recorder? Or would you say go for....?



Capturing with your current system may be a frustrating experience, especially if time is more scarce than money. If cost is no object how about a prepackaged video capture system? Here's a selection with a range of prices:

<link removed>

[jggimi]

John, it may be inadvertant, but your link was interpreted as advertising by the moderation team. I've taken the liberty of editing out the link, I hope you won't mind.

[prom3theus]

I am mainly saying thanks for the info here, and I think my questions got answered with this mainly plus one or two other searches. You guys who posted won't get much at all from this except a thanks, but maybe some other searchers can hit this thread with some of my keywords I was using for my questions:

Searching for info on leadtek winfast a280 vivo myvivo card, or vivo in general in mid-range, low-range cost. I currently use leadtek winfast 2000xp deluxe, which I went to from an ati all-in-wonder radeon 7500, my third all-in-wonder in a row, my only capture cards ever, and I will not look back. I had no idea until recently that the bt cards had so much open support and such nice quality for the price.

Basically my questions were:
Can a vivo like leadtek winfast capture to any support high-bitrate avi for say capture to huffy and reencode later at two-pass? Answer seems to be no, at least in most cheaper cards. If it says, as leadtek does, that it is support mpeg2, mpegetc, and does not list any avi (yuv, yuy, rgb555, etc) formats, I guess you are supposed to caveat emptor and assume they don't exist. Also they seem to all or most lack a tuner, which is a bit deceiving or at least confusing to a newbie, that they then could not actually change channels, they accept only video-in, which means a vcr/cable box/satellite box as your channel changer/tuner decoder.

Also, is the quality of the vivo going to be what I'm used to, which is a near-dvd quality capture, which I then encode to my liking for that particular video? The answer seems to be that you get typical, which is to say not that hot, quality mpeg2 on-the-fly compression, and it is still worse than a YUV->huffy->two-pass (divx/mpeg2) alternative. It really is worth the evening or two to figure out the minimums here, even just if you get avisynth and virtualdubmod and go to divx5.1 from there, that is usually great quality in two-pass.

So, thanks for the posts. I will stick with bt cards at least for now, and avoid the vivo mpeg2 cards. If anyone is wondering, I use a cheap ECS 64MB agp 4x video card (sis 315 chip), and a cheap leadtek winfast 2000xp deluxe at pci, and I can capture just fine at RGB24 if I want to at 640x480 just as well as using huffy at 352x240. So, don't think if you're a non-gamer you have to still get some expensive setup just to watch movies and capture. PCI is still fine for capture, (usb 2.0 I bet is nice with the right device), and a 4x agp card is just fine for playback. (get videolan.org video player for LOW cpu usage for dvd/vob/divx playback)

Hope this isn't inappropriate to set up a keyword trap for a good post answering some good questions.