Should be an interesting year for Adobe...

[TRILIGHT]

This is a quote from DigitalVideo.com in reference to the NAB 2003 conference which started yesterday...

What would be next? More secrets revealed? Yes! The demo was centered around Adobe's awesome new DVD authoring application, Encore DVD (see screen shot below), but we saw it on a round trip route that passed by Photoshop and none other than another shocker, the beta of a new version of After Effects, the version number of which the demo artist wouldn’t say. Anyway, the reason the guy opened these other two applications at the same time as Encore DVD was to prove that they all work tightly together. In fact, Encore has exactly the same render engine as Photoshop, so all layers and parameters are perfectly imported from one application to another.

The AE tease was to show us that AAF (Advanced Authoring Format) is alive and well at Adobe, where the same project that was created in Premiere 7 was imported into After Effects, with all the picture-in-picture effects, paths, and dissolves opened up perfectly in After Effects. This is what Metadata can do for you. Noticeably absent from the entire demo session, which included talks from Intel and Microsoft brass, was any mention of the Mac, which, as far as Adobe at NAB is concerned, has fallen off the earth. I can tell you this: Apple has a lot of neat stuff, but there’s one thing it doesn’t have, and that’s Photoshop. And Photoshop works with Encore DVD, Premiere and After Effects as if they could all use the same toothbrush without thinking twice about it. The neat tick here is exploiting the power of editing Photoshop files within a DVD application. That’s some interoperability that’ll be impossible to beat. At the same time, work-saving features and improved built-in compression ensures that Encore DVD – not available on the Mac -- will be a major contender. It’s my pick for DVD app of the year, hands down, no question. Adobe really opened the kimono on this one, showing all the other software players who’s the real boss around here. This was an astonishing demo that blew everyone’s socks off.


I know a lot of people here don't really do a lot of original work but this is important news for those of us who do. If you know anything at all about Premiere, Photoshop, and After Effects, this sort of interoperability with a new DVD authoring app from the same company stands to really enhance the power and ease-of-use when it comes to original compilations! I can't wait! :)

[MetaMusicLand]

Every time I start selling myself on non-adobe apps, they pull something out like this that makes me wanna switch back. (maybe avid's just making my life miserable right now...damn avid...)


Steve

[TRILIGHT]

I don't know a LOT about commercial video production but I thought Avid was the "end all, be all" of commercial video hardware? Do they make software as well that competes with Adobe's offerings? Thanks!

[Deepa DvD]

Thanks for the info. TRILIGHT! :) Can't wait to try out the demo!

deePA

[TRILIGHT]

Yeah, me too! :) I have a feeling it will probably fall somewhere between Maestro and Scenarist but with better interoperability with Adobe products than even ReelDVD currently has. Hopefully Premiere 7 will be released around the same time.

[Arky]

Personally, I don't expect Adobe's Encore to be anywhere near as good as Maestro or Scenarist, but that is not to say that I would not like it to be! I'm gonna sit back and watch. Assuming they have the inclination, they have the potential to produce something really powerful. My reservations stem from my personal feelings about Adobe's existing programs. I really rate After Effects very highly, and Photoshop is pretty hard to beat. When it comes to Premiere, however, I am seemingly one of the minority who feels that Premiere is utterly over-rated and inferior to the likes of Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video, and Pinnacle Edition. I feel that Premiere's continued dominance is owed more to it's integration with certain 3rd-party hardware packages, and it's standardised plugin format, than it is to it's actual feature set or ease of use. As CPUs get progressively more powerful, however, hardware integration will largely cease to be an issue when choosing an NLE, so Premiere's clutches on the Prosumer NLE market will take one hell of a tumble.

It is because of my mixed feelings towards Adobe's product range that I am cautious of what Encore may bring. If it becomes the 'Premiere' of the DVD-authoring world, then I am not interested, but if it becomes the 'After Effects' or 'Photoshop' (in terms of calibre) of the DVD-authoring world, then I will be first in the queue!

Apologies if I've 'stepped on anyone's toes' regarding Premiere - it's only my opinion, and the majority will doubtless disagree ;)


Arky ;o)

[TRILIGHT]

Well, I happen to really like Premiere but I don't feel like you've stepped on any toes. Now that I think about what you said...

I feel that Premiere's continued dominance is owed more to it's integration with certain 3rd-party hardware packages, and it's standardised plugin format, than it is to it's actual feature set or ease of use.

...I think I have to even agree a bit. I think ease of use though is not so bad. I think it could be easier and hopefully that is something they would address in the upcoming "7".

I have read a lot about Pinnacle Edition and Vegas Video and seen screenshots but I've not had a chance to use them yet. They both seem very powerful! I'd like to see what they are capable of firsthand.

[Arky]

You may or may not be aware that Edition has rudimentary DVD-authoring abilities, which I only mention in light of the original title of this thread. If you want a really Quick-and-Dirty 'print' to DVD from the timeline, Edition will do this for you, quite literally at the click of a button, with just a firstplay screen with an image that says 'play'. This is great for very fast checking of your edited sequences in DVD format, but I feel that Edition stands on its own as a superb NLE without this feature, and lets be honest, it wouldn't satisfy the hard-core DVD-authorers amongst us. Edition 5 (currently 4.5 until May), introduces more DVD authoring features, but again, I think it would be regrettable for anyone to judge Edition on the basis of its DVD-authoring capabilitites - even as an Edition user, they're really an afterthought, and I'm not afraid to admit that.


Arky ;o)

[TRILIGHT]

What are your opinions of Vegas and Edition in comparison to Premiere, Arky? (In ref. to NLE capabilties only)

[Arky]

Well, for many people, it depends rather a lot on just how much of a purist you are with editing. I'm not a purist myself - I just know what I like, in terms of ease-of-use, technical performance, and technical capability. I also like the idea of learning a program with close similarities to high-end suites, should my life end up going in that direction.

If you are a 'bread-and-butter' hardcore editor, then Edition would probably be the best choice, with Premiere second and Vegas third. This is not on the basis of power, but on the basis of editing style.

If you like your NLE to incorporate a little compositing capability, then Premiere does offer this, but IMHO it's not as powerful as that incoporated into either Edition or Vegas. I really like Vegas's power in this respect, and very much enjoyed playing with it last year (seriously considered buying it, actually). Edition, on the other hand, does the best rendering of such work, and has a very intuitive interface for 2D and 3D compositing. You may have seen remarks I have made in the past, regarding compositing with Premiere-versus-After Effects, and the fact that Premiere does not produce smoothly rendered scrolling effects, for example, anywhere near as nicely as AfterEffects does. Likewise Edition's sub-pixel rendering engine comes into its own here (and with slow motion). One criticism I would level at Edition's 2D and 3D compositing interfaces, though, is that although all effects are fully key-frameable, bezier paths cannot be set using rubberbanding, which is a major failing, IMHO, and really highlights why you should really do such work in After Effects, Combustion,or Boris FX/RED. RED is great since it obviously works within the NLE environment, to avoid the need for rendering twice, although it does take ages to render, particularly if you attempt to use After Effects plugs within RED.

If you like to do a broad range of tasks within your NLE, then all 3 of them have much to recommend them. I like Premiere's ability to accept all manner of plugins, and for some people this is an absolute necessity. It also has very intuitive audio rubberbanding which I appreciate.

Vegas is a bit of an odd beast, but very powerful and good value. It also contains a good selection of native plugins right out of the box (as will Edition 5 when it is released in May).

Premiere is a little more popular than I feel it deserves to be, but remains a solid and capable performer which works with a broad range of hardware. Ironically, it is not so much a case of whether one of these editors is better than another, but more a case of how long one has been editing with Premiere!

All three are very different from each other, so it is quite a wrench for old hands to leave Premiere (which has ruled the NLE roost for so long), and migrate to pastures new. I never did get too attached to it, and I'm glad I switched. Others may try Edition and Vegas, and absolutely detest them.

You pays your money, and you takes your pick. The best advice I can give is to raid the FTP Pubs of Sonic Foundry and Pinnacle, and try the demos for yourself :) Both of them, while not absolutely complete, are not far off.

Brief rundown of Edition 5:

http://www.dvc.uk.com/news.php?newsID=53

P.S. if you are genuinely in the market for a new NLE, and you are really keen on hardware acceleration in the traditional sense (as opposed to GPU acceleration which is new in Edition 5 and Boris RED 3), then do check out Canopus's new offering, 'Edius':

http://www.canopus.com/us/products/EDIUS/pm_EDIUS.asp

Interesting brief rundown of Edition5 vs. Edius:

http://www.dvc.uk.com/news.php?newsID=54

Lastly, if you are a DVD authorer, then NLE MPEG2 encoding will doubtless be of interest to you, since it saves you rendering to DV codec first, only to transcode to MPEG2. Here, Premiere does rather well, with the MainConcept encoding engine which, while not the best, is pretty reasonable. Vegas also uses the same engine. Edition however, falls flat on its face here - I really don't rate either the speed or the quality of it's internal MPEG encoding routines :( . By far the best, for MPEG2 output, will be Edius, using, as it does, an LE version of ProCoder ( :eek: <==green with envy!). At present, I render to DV codec, then transcode using Cinemacraft.

I'm very interested to hear your views on the above musings, Trilight, and particularly where you feel Premiere's strengths and weaknesses really lie, as this will directly relate to what you might consider moving over to in the future, if at all. At a guess, I reckon you'd probably go with Edius or Edition. I must say (perhaps controversially!) that from what little information I have been able to find on Edius, it seems to bear an uncanny similarity to Edition - perhaps more 'watching' Edition has gone on than Canopus's claimed "listening" to customers. MAYBE! lol ;) )


Arky ;o)

[Arky]

If anyone's still looking into maybe buying Vegas, you should check out this months Computer Video Magazine (UK). It's got a fairly in-depth review of the Vegas 4.0. Online summary (http://www.computervideo.net/june03-1.html)


Arky ;o)

[Arky]

Anyone in the U.S. and looking to buy an NLE? Then this might be of interest to you:

http://www.dvline.com/cfwebstore/tour/intro.htm


Arky ;o)

[Fireye]

Any chance I could get a link to the original article? digitalvideo.com seems to be someone else's site.

[Arky]

Originally posted by Fireye
Any chance I could get a link to the original article? digitalvideo.com seems to be someone else's site.

Which article are you referring to, Fireye?


Arky ;o)

[Malow]

encore dvd seens to be a strange mix, in first impression
of course, looks like adobe premiere (always the same fool look..)

im my oppinion, is not a "easy to use authoring tool" i supose to be, but have some goods and pros:

u can edit the psd for menu direct from window, move layers , stretch and others things, the preview of dvd is in realtime, has menu templates and buttons templates too..

but, not support dts, u cant configure anything in writing engine, (it write in udf 2.0, so is unusable to write for me) and the timeline is slow to make a seek, because appears that u cant put a chapter using a time box, like scenarist.

and, i sayd mix because it use sonic author core, padus writing engine, mainconcept decoding of video and encoding, and have some dlls from leadtool, i dont know for what...

but for the price may be a good choice... or not...

Malow

[Arky]

Thanks for that, Malow - so does that mean you actually have it (or a beta)?

You made some really interesting comments.

I wish Adobe would host a demo because I'd like to put it through its paces, instead of being forced to buy something which I may dislike (I've been concerned, ever since the original press release, that they'd used a Sonic core, which is not necessarily a good thing).


Arky ;o)

[Malow]

yes, is a beta build fom months ago, still with bugs and unfinished things.

i dont know about a release to download, i guess not, because still they put old version or none versions to download of some products...