New DVD 9 to 5 program: DVD Shrink 1.02

[Antonio S.]

DVD Shrink 1.02

First was DVD2one...
Second was Pinnacle InstantCopy...
Third was DVD95Copy...

And now there is DVD Shrink 1.02...Does anyone try it?
I think it is a similar program that re-encodes and strip streams in order to make a 1:1 DVD copy. The best of all is that is FREE.

More information here:http://www.dvdr-digest.com/software/software.php?file=dvdshrink

Antonio S.

[MackemX]

got some interesting features

nice one Antonio S.

get it while you can, bet it ain't free for long :D

[jdobbs]

Whoah! I downloaded this and did a quick look. I'll have to check out the quality etc. before making a judgement, but this looks really good at first glance. Fast too. The options are even impressive...

[MackemX]

you can select loadsa stiff, the bummer is I'm testing it with Blade and it's got 59 menu's :(, gonna take me ages to select it but I like it so far :)

EDIT
DOH, I went the reauthor route

this has how many options :confused: :D

[MackemX]

DVD2One speed by the looks of things and you can flick the preview on and off while its working :)

I couldn't get it lower than 4.44Gb tho :confused:

1st impressions on quality is the annoying pulsing in the background :(, tho this is 1st impression by the way using Level 4

[jdobbs]

It is very, very fast. The quality looks to be about the same as DVD2one. I'm about to run AVISYNTH on it to see what kind of signal to noise ratio I get. All in all I'd say this guy just made a few $49 packages obsolete... I'll have to explore the options some more.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by jdobbs
All in all I'd say this guy just made a few $49 packages obsolete... I'll have to explore the options some more.
LOL :D, it is very fast, just done a complete DVD in 15 mins but the quality suffers a little for it, similar to DVD2One, though not that bad on my TV compared to PC

It has some very interesting features too and no doubt they will be fully explained in the future, but it also has a neat set of help files included to get you by for now

no doubt it will evolve just like the rest of them and at this price you cannot complain

so 10/10 :D and grab it while you cos it won't last long at this price

[int 21h]

This program is interesting... one of its interesting features:

Technical Note on Stream Removal

For those who are interested, DVD Shrink uses an advanced method of removing audio and subpicture streams from the target DVD. When a stream is removed, it is not merely removed from the VOB files, but also from the navigation structures at the VTS, VMG and PGC levels. Remaining stream ID numbers are re-mapped, and menu button commands and navigation commands executed at the PGC level are re-mapped so as to enable the correct stream numbers. Commands which enable a stream ID no longer valid, are replaced with the NOP command. This means that the target DVD should function rather well, even with streams removed.



I'm testing it now on Gladiator (Level 3)

[mrbass]

well..man....this is awesome. It can do what dvdtoolbox can do too. One thing that dvd95copy and dvd2one won't do is give the size of each stream which dvdshrink does. I just did Gone in 60 seconds and I removed French audio and it needed no compression. Took 7 mins..same time as dvdtoolbox would take. Plays perfect in PowerDVD. I also cut off the credits ..just left about a min.

Was gonna redo ic guide but that's gonna have to take a backseat to this awesome little utility. Can't wait to test the quality of the transcoding of this puppy. Let's call it our personal shrink. Also I ripped it with dvdshrink and didn't even need to use dvddecrypter.

[GooglyBear]

keep them tests/reviews coming out fellas.. quality is most important, how does that go?
cuz right now the reigning king in terms of quality is IC

and mixterx is right . ) grab it while it's still free, LOL

we're all beta testers right now :D

[int 21h]

The quality I experienced was about average, it used an approximate reduction factor of ~40% (equivalent to IC @ ~60%). I ran Avisynth's compare on some of this to get an idea of the PSNR, the output was:


Minimum Average Maximum
Mean Absolute Deviation: 0.0000 0.5486 1.3232
Mean Deviation: -0.0502 +0.1102 +0.3427
PSNR: 40.5404 51.7981 106.5268


The max of 106 appears to be an error, and it may inflate the average a bit. The average appears to be more like 46-48.

The movie itself doesn't appear to be too bad, in the noiser portions, blocking does tend to show up a little more. I haven't taken a look on the television yet, but it is very likely the pixelation is not visible on an analog set. I also did not experience any of the 'pulsating' background problems reported elsewhere in this thread.

[Sbofen]

Originally posted by MisterX
got some interesting features

nice one Antonio S.

get it while you can, bet it ain't free for long :D

I second that, how can something this nice be free?
It's good to finally see something given to the community to rival others that charge for thier programs.

[GooglyBear]

Originally posted by Sbofen
I second that, how can something this nice be free?
It's good to finally see something given to the community to rival others that charge for thier programs.

yeah but what sucks about this is some company will take what he did, put a pretty menu on it, good icons, etc etc and then market it as their own..

ultimately, i feel bad for him because they're taking his work and they'll be the ones to make money off it

[GooglyBear]

first impressions of the shrink..
pros:
1. nice speed, very nice.. rivals dvd2one :D
2. i like the fact that you can customize each vtc by itself
3. i like that the size you specify.. is the size you get.. i just did life as a house.. i was setting the compression level of the xtras to level 4, and the main movie and basically tinkering around to get a filesize of 4.36, final size was 4.365 . ) which is right on point

quality wise im not sure yet as im burning it on to a dvdrw to watch on my panasonic cp72s . )

cons:
1. can't deselect stuff.. if i want movie only and none of the xtras.. u cannot deselect it
2. quality? not sure yet..

first impressions from moi :D

[mrbass]

Originally posted by GooglyBear


cons:
1. can't deselect stuff.. if i want movie only and none of the xtras.. u cannot deselect it
2. quality? not sure yet..


what are you talking about?
I only do main movie only with this...you choose Re-author...then only add the largest size PGC (you can preview it too) and then I like to Customize Streams (I think that's what it's called) and voila you have main movie only.

DVDShrink will be ultra easy to do Band of Brothers, Simpsons, etc. because you can choose say just those two episodes or whatever and that's it. Just like int21h quoted it handles the new navigation, etc.

I did Ever After and it only took 11mins (files first were ripped to hd though). Quality...well in PowerDVD looked excellent...41% done burning to dvd-r so will report back on TV. I stripped out French audio and English commentary and it had to reduce the 5.7GB down to 4.38GB (full dvd is 6.11GB). I just choose 4.7GB DVD-5 size and it gave me 4.37GB.

I know 99% of people never read help included with programs...however, DVDShrink includes an excellent help file with screenshots and extremely thourough explanation of each option. Well worth 5 mins to read through it to get a clear understanding of DVDShrinks capabilities.

[Arianos]

What a way to wake up on a Monday morning :)
First impressions:
I just gave it my "Walking with Dinosaurs" (6.67 Gig) which crashes DVD2ONE no matter what, (it would take about 45 minutes) and took IC7 about 3,5 hours to ...finish (4,39 GB (4.721.809.408 bytes...sigh) on my P4 @ 1800:
It did it in about 27 minutes @ level 4 (41,7%).Predicted size 3.86,
came out 3.95 (AAAARGH!!) with DVD2ONE looking quality

Lots of bells and whistles :) and the preview works over a network (IC7 does not), but slows it down considerably.
Sure looks awfully lot like MisterX's dream software :), after minor improvements.
And at a price you can't say no...

[GooglyBear]

Originally posted by mrbass
what are you talking about?
I only do main movie only with this...you choose Re-author...then only add the largest size PGC (you can preview it too) and then I like to Customize Streams (I think that's what it's called) and voila you have main movie only.

DVDShrink will be ultra easy to do Band of Brothers, Simpsons, etc. because you can choose say just those two episodes or whatever and that's it. Just like int21h quoted it handles the new navigation, etc.

I did Ever After and it only took 11mins (files first were ripped to hd though). Quality...well in PowerDVD looked excellent...41% done burning to dvd-r so will report back on TV. I stripped out French audio and English commentary and it had to reduce the 5.7GB down to 4.38GB (full dvd is 6.11GB). I just choose 4.7GB DVD-5 size and it gave me 4.37GB.

I know 99% of people never read help included with programs...however, DVDShrink includes an excellent help file with screenshots and extremely thourough explanation of each option. Well worth 5 mins to read through it to get a clear understanding of DVDShrinks capabilities.

oops, forgot to say i did the other one.. full re-encode
which is what i wanted to see, how flexible it is on a FULL dvd
not "movie only"
anyhows the quality was .. worse than dvd2one
i'll do the re-author way tomorrow and see

but yeah this thing is chock full of options

[GooglyBear]

btw mrbass since you've already gone re-author movie only way.. how is it quality-wise? :D let us know please

edit: and i meant in an actual dvd player, not powerdvd, i do read posts, heh :P hrmpf

[mrbass]

Well I just finished watching the entire Ever After movie (and yes the layer break was not removed...I'm glad it isn't too) with my wife..it's close to 1am now and I didn't notice any macro blocks (and yes there are a few really dark scenes too) or pulsating effects so looks go so far. That's a 5.7GB --> 4.37GB so I'll have to do it on a longer movie (size wise). I was about to totally redo ic7 guide and basically rip movie only with dvdtoolbox and recommend anything that exceeded 5.8GB process with IC7. However, anything between 4.37GB and 5.8GB I was gonna recommended to transcode with dvd2one. I am quite happy with dvd2one when it's within that range so I'll see if the same range holds true with DVDShrink. (so far based on one movie it's looking good IMHO). I want to do a dvd2one and dvdshrink screenshot comparison...maybe throw in IC7 too.

[Pstelios]

Well, i transcoded Sex and the city Season 3 disc 2
Results: Better than dvd2one for only 1 reason....
I could exclude 5 languages and 6 subtitles.
And the best of all...
It's much faster than dvd2one since you don't need extra time for ripping!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :D :D :D :D :D

[PeterMac]

While this program is the most professional looking I've seen of this type, it has one drawback for me. I cannot create a re-authored DVD with menus. If I leave out any title sets, I can only play what's left sequentially. To get menus, I must re-encode the whole disc. True, I can tinker with audio/subtitle settings and optionally drop some of those, but that's not enough.
Perhaps the excellent author - whoever he or she may be - will be able to add this later. When that's done, the program will be invincible!

-Pete

[gdmartin]

Originally posted by Antonio S.
DVD Shrink 1.02

First was DVD2one...
Second was Pinnacle InstantCopy...
Third was DVD95Copy...

And now there is DVD Shrink 1.02...Does anyone try it?
I think it is a similar program that re-encodes and strip streams in order to make a 1:1 DVD copy. The best of all is that is FREE.

More information here:http://www.dvdr-digest.com/software/software.php?file=dvdshrink

Antonio S.


I tried to download the program but so far I had no luck. Seeing this is a FREE program, can someone who has it, put it in the download section of the forum?

[Indo]

disable your firewall and download again

[mck3nzi3]

Anyone can post a mirror...from dvd-r digest I can't donwload it !
Since the program is freeware anyone can send it on my mail mckenzie@freemail.it

More thanx!

[Indo]

it's in your mailbox

Indo

[scying]

I cannot download the program dvdshrink from the dvddigest website. Would appreciate reciving the program in mail from someone who has it already. Thanks.



S.C. Ying

[scying]

OOps! Forgot to include my email address in my last message.


ying@physics.brown.edu

[MackemX]

for those who can't get it, there's a link at VCDhelp

LINK (http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=152198)

hosted by a guy called Porto

[MackemX]

I've uploaded it up for people who can't get it

LINK (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/DVDShrink.zip)

NJOY :D

[poweroftheplum]

I tested this out on Reign of Fire (PAL region 4)

Has anyone been able to add a menu and just the movie? I selected all the menus (wich you have to add one by one)but when i tested the end product the menu had obviously remapped itself wrong. It seems to be stuck in 'scene select', clicking anywhere brings it back to 'scene select'.

The main movie came out wonderful at level 1 (23%), but i prefer to have menus with my movies. Anyone else had any luck?


j.


EDIT: i think i may have to just add the WARNING/COPYRIGHT intros. Ill try it again.

[mpucoder]

Tried this out myself last night, it's good, but has a few quirks. The movie I chose has a main movie of 5.3G. First I did re-author to select the main movie AND menu (there's a checkbox). Since the movie would not fit the program then brought me to re-encode, did a scan of the movie, and offered me 4 compression ratios. None of these was what I wanted, and I saw no way to change it, so I took the least compression that would fit. This resulted in a 3.9G DVD, with NO menu.
I haven't viewed the entire movie yet, but what I saw was quite acceptable. The re-encoding took about 14 minutes on a Athlon XP 1700+, less than the time to burn.

I had already ripped this movie to HD, so I don't know if the program can decrypt. Has anyone tried using a DVD as source?

[poweroftheplum]

The check box just brings up the menus in the pull down list, from wich you then have to select one by one. Wich is a pain in the anus :P because i dont know about your eyesite but i cant really make out anything in the preview scroller.

I selected everything with menu in it, but my menu seems to of been put back together wrong.


j.

I need a few extra videos i think, like the warning video and the touchstone intro. But im lost and i have a headache, i think i might go to bed and just IC this movie (Reign of fire PAL reg4). :|

[mrbass]

freakin awesome....in this case better than dvdtoolbox. Remember the Titans NTSC R1. If I were to strip out all audio except English 5.1 I would get 4.48G. Well I can do same thing with dvdshrink...bonus is I left about 1 min of credits and cut out the rest which brings dvd down to 4.24GB and 'no compression'. Sweet total time to process it was 6 mins.

BTW, dvdshrink uses different transcoding algorithms than dvd2one and dvd95copy. They seem to do a bitrate reduction based on each frame (I have no idea just guessing) but that's probably how they achieve a exact 4.36GB.

quote from dvdshrink:
The re-encode interface - there is a need for finer control of the encode level. I'll look into it. Actually I only have one re-encode algorithm. The level determines which pictures it operates on:

Level 1 = light compression of b-pictures
Level 2 = heavier compression of b-pictures
Level 3 = Level 2 + compression of P-pictures
Level 4 = Level 3 + compression of I-pictures

Anyway I did a movie with main movie only + 5.1 audio is 6.36GB and I had to choose level 3 which brought it down to 3.85GB. Looks mighty good on PowerDVD and I couldn't see any macroblocks. I'm gonna do a dvd2one comparison and see how it stacks up to 4.36GB dvd2one encode of the same movie.

So far Level 3 looks pretty good...I don't know if Level 4 would look good or not...have to try it.

[Antonio S.]

@mrbass:

This "level" options is the weakness of this program. It is very annoyng, especially when one level compress too much and the next one doesn't compress enough. To solve this, he must add more levels to choose from, or add a variable compress option (to choose the exact value to fill completely a DVD-R). Also it is needed a lower "level" of compression (60-70% for the extras), leaving more space for the main title.

Antonio S.

[mrbass]

For me it's to early to tell. It could end of being it's strength. It'll have more of a uniform quality throughout the entire movie. People (raise their voices) because I pick out certain frames of a movie in dvd2one that show macroblocks like crazy and they say that doesn't represent how it looks overall. I'll attempt to do the same with dvdshrink and pick see if I can't find macroblocks too.

Also dvd95copy and dvd2one use around 30% CPU while DVDShrink uses close to 100%. So there is definitely something different (algorithms) etc. Dvd95copy nor dvd2one will reveal exactly which algorithms they use (proprietary company secret) while dvdshrink has already stated the computational formulas and algorithms he uses.

[int 21h]

The difference in compression levels explains that Compare() output I got then. The I frames weren't being recompressed at level 3, so they had 0 difference in them.

[GooglyBear]

Originally posted by mrbass
Well I just finished watching the entire Ever After movie (and yes the layer break was not removed...I'm glad it isn't too) with my wife..it's close to 1am now and I didn't notice any macro blocks (and yes there are a few really dark scenes too) or pulsating effects so looks go so far. That's a 5.7GB --> 4.37GB so I'll have to do it on a longer movie (size wise). I was about to totally redo ic7 guide and basically rip movie only with dvdtoolbox and recommend anything that exceeded 5.8GB process with IC7. However, anything between 4.37GB and 5.8GB I was gonna recommended to transcode with dvd2one. I am quite happy with dvd2one when it's within that range so I'll see if the same range holds true with DVDShrink. (so far based on one movie it's looking good IMHO). I want to do a dvd2one and dvdshrink screenshot comparison...maybe throw in IC7 too.

yeah, when i went to sleep last night at 3 am i fired off a re-author movie only for life as a house..

the re-encode as i said sucked, but movie only was actually pretty good.. so im going to try to do a side-by-side comparison of ic, dvd2one and this one movie only..

i have to say though.. if peeps only want to do the movie.. my god it's like CAKE usig the shrink.. it's an all in one package! literally no need for dvddecrypter even

edit: i think for movie-only peeps this may be the champion as it is an all-in-one package and the quality is fairly decent (no blocks for life as a house which shows up immediately, otherwise)

but for me, i want to maximize the movie.. and keep the menus too, xtras can go away.. so for me, i think the dvdtoolbox-IC combo is the way to go.. or just IC since i have yet to tinker with dvdtoolbox . )

[valnar]

Based on the compression levels, its enough to keep me away from this program indefinitely. How good can it look when you compress only some frames and not others? Even if they are only B-frames, that certainly would give it the pixel-pulsating effect that commonly plagues DVD2One.

IC still wins for me.

-Robert

[MackemX]

Originally posted by mpucoder
so I took the least compression that would fit. This resulted in a 3.9G DVD, with NO menu
I had already ripped this movie to HD, so I don't know if the program can decrypt. Has anyone tried using a DVD as source?

I came across that when I couldnt get it lower than 4.44Gb unless I went lower than 4Gb, so obviously I had to go lower to level 4 (48%) and cos I was doing a complete 1:1 unlike people who have done movie & menu I ended up with very poor quality from an already poor source (Blade 1), which resulted in the annoying pulsating background probably from the compression method which was more apparent on my TFT and less apparent on TV but still noticable

yes it does work direct from DVD (dunno if this will last long due to legalities) and did quite a good job of Blade 2, but again I could not get anywhere near 4.37Gb, it was either 4.52Gb (level 3) or 3.98Gb (Level 4) which suffered badly

Of course this will be sorted and overall it looks very promising and for movie only there is nothing that can touch it as most people will be using the higher levels and can do it direct from the DVD

no doubt the author will be getting feedback and improve on the already excellent promising features

IC & DVD95Copy will still do it for me for now, but I'll keep an eye on for this and no doubt there will be more & more popping up and we will all be spoilt for choice

[muralin]

is it possible to remove specific cells, chapters, or vob ids of a movie with this program?

[Latief]

Is it possible to replace unwanted extra's with a 1 second black screen? With this option, a menu/dvd structure could be maintained along with a maximum main movie quality.

[krackato]

Yeah, one of these programs really needs to start adding 1 second black video to preserve the file structure. I've learned to do it in ifoedit, but hey, the less I have to do the better.

I must say though, it was sweet to just put the disc in and have it rip the final version without having to rip the entire disc to the harddrive first. Someone said that it'll kill your dvd-rom drive, but hey, they're like $25 now.

[aaron10]

This has a lot of promise but neeeds tweaking (as mentioned by others) to include a compression level that "fills out" a DVD-5.

I just did Ghost Ship 1:1 and could either create a 4.8 transcoded rendition or a 3.66 rendition. Unfortunately, one is too big for a DVD-5 and the other wastes a lot of valuable DVD-5 real estate, producing a lower quality than necessary main movie.

[mrbass]

how many of you are doing a 1:1 with dvd2one on long movies? If you are I think your crazy. Only one that you should attempt to do a 1:1 copy with is IC or DVD95Copy. Both of those you can specify the extras, trailers, etc. compression level. I'm not gonna even say how many SVCD backups I've done but I was totally satisfied with stereo sound and CCE 4 pass video encoding. Movie only is a decent enough backup for me.

Anyway I'm doing Alien 1,2,3, and 4 today (at work) and I love being able to cut out some of the credits. I'm getting an additional 120 to 200MB or more sometimes of additional space because of it. I haven't tried level 4 but just based on comments I don't think I'll try. Question is does Level 3 look good or not? So far on about 3 or 4 movies I've done with PowerDVD it does but I need more time to analyze it and compare, etc.

[SniperKilla]

well it already managed to do something the other 3 programs couldent do, it did teckademics mischief 3000, the other 3 crashed.

dvd2one - said movie was encrypted
dvd95copy - said error repacking
Instant Copy - crashed durring encoding
Dvd Shrink - did the entire movie in 1 hour

it dosent look TOO bad, i had todo at compression level 4, because it was 7.60gb, with 2.06gb of extras.

it is very watchable, and it actually worked! :)

those on about the no menus even clicking the button in re author, click the help button and read what it says about the button, it will tell you what its for.

http://members.verizon.net/~vze4dt3c/dvdshrink.jpg

[aaron10]

You really have to love the accuracy of DVD95Copy when it comes to transcoding 1:1 and filling out a DVD-5. I just did the aforementioned Ghost Ship w/ it and it hit the mark with a 4.35 finished product.

[rpboy]

Originally posted by SniperKilla
well it already managed to do something the other 3 programs couldent do, it did teckademics mischief 3000, the other 3 crashed.

dvd2one - said movie was encrypted
Instant Copy - crashed durring encoding
I had this same problem on several movies as well. I just re-ripped them in File Mode with SmartRipper using a technique that was posted here (and in other forums) and then both DVD2One and InstantCopy worked fine on them.

It appeared as if a few blocks were still encrypted (or marked as encrypted anyway) which was causing the problem.

[kalvnhobbz]

Doesn't look like it lets you remove restrictions like IC does, though. (i.e. skipping past the FBI warning sign).

[mrbass]

lemme say this again for those two lazy to read the help file

Don't use dvdshrink for 1:1 if you have to choose Level 4 compression you won't be too happy. If level 3 then go for it but I always shoot for the highest level if possible for video quality.
DVDShrink supposedly does either 1:1 (the full thing) or you can add main movie and say one or two extras and I guess they'd start after the main movie was done. I'll try this out so I'll know it does what I think it does.

It's not like Instant Copy where you can deselect various VTS.

[MackemX]

using the author mode, if you add PGC's and no menu's, it just creates new titlesets (VTS_0x_1.VOB) for each PGC that play one after the other

if you keep menus & PGC's it again just makes a titleset (VTS_0x_1.VOB)for each PGC/Menu you keep

it maintains chapters within the PGC's but there are no actual menus, just titlesets that run one after the other

so if you keep 5 menu's and 8 PGC's you end up with 13 titlesets (VTS_01_1.VOB to VTS_13_1.VOB)

[mrbass]

thank you MisterX...precisely. I couldn't explain it like you do.

[Allistah]

Hm, I'd like to see ShrinkDVD have the ability to keep all the menus and stuff by default so it will be a 1:1 copy. Then give me the ability to remove what parts I want. That would rule.

What would be cool too is have a visual thing that would map out the whole dvd in a map fashion. Then you could see everything and easily delete what you want. Then the program would also remove anything under that menu as well to free up even more space.

I dunno I may be dreaming, but that would indeed rule.

-Allistah

[tyee]

Just found out that DVD Shrink errors on AOTC for the reauthor mode and gives this error --

"angle branch differ vobu count"

as soon as I select "reauthor" and hit "next" key.

Can someone else try this too please.

tyee

[mrbass]

Level 1 = light compression of B-pictures
Level 2 = heavier compression of B-pictures
Level 3 = Level 2 + compression of P-pictures
Level 4 = Level 3 + compression of I-pictures

I am not satisified with Level 3 quality. It's just not acceptable to my eyes (maybe it is to yours). Level 1 and Level 2 look great however.

Level 1 and Level 2doing B-picutures is fine


B picture (bi-directionally predictive-coded picture)
A B picture consists of motion vectors when previous (just before) I pictures or P pictures and/or future (just after) I pictures or P pictures are used for reference and differential information between a picture comprised of these motion vectors and an original picture. Therefore, to decode B pictures, two pictures used for reference are required, but compression efficiency is even better than P pictures. Since a B picture itself is not used
for reference, errors do not accumulate even if B pictures continues, unlike the case of P pictures. However, if B pictures continue, the distance from a reference picture increases, and as a result, the motion compensation effect may decrease.

Level 3 but touching P-pictures definitely produces inferior images IMHO.

P picture (Predictive-coded picture)
A P picture consists of motion vectors when previous (just before) I pictures or P pictures are used for reference and differential information between a picture comprised of these motion vectors and an original picture. To decode a P picture, pictures used for reference are required, but compression can be more efficient than I pictures. In the case of a sequence where P pictures continue, however, picture quality may deteriorate as the P picture deviates from the reference I picture, since errors accumulate during decoding due to the difference in the IDCT (Inverse Discrete Cosine Transform) calculation method between the encoder and the decoder.


Level 4 ok let's not even try this one here
I picture (Intra-coded picture)
An I picture holds all the picture information on one picture within itself. It is not necessary to refer to another picture to decode an I picture, but compression efficiency is not as good as for other types of pictures. Therefore, when the bitrate is the same, the picture quality of a stream of I pictures is lower than that of other types of streams. To edit encoded streams, however, it is more convenient to use numerous I pictures.


I'd say keep the algorithm as Level 2 but bump up the compression ratio even greater and name that Level 3. In other words don't compress P-pictures nor I-pictures. Actually best to take away all Levels and just do the algorithm for Level 1 and 2 but just let the user decide on the compression ratio.

I'm not gonna post screenshots but dvd2one compared to dvdshrink at Level 3 achieves better quality. Now at the same token I need to compare dvdshrink at level 2 to dvd2one.

let's simplify this B > P > I quality wise

[SniperKilla]

Originally posted by rpboy
I had this same problem on several movies as well. I just re-ripped them in File Mode with SmartRipper using a technique that was posted here (and in other forums) and then both DVD2One and InstantCopy worked fine on them.

It appeared as if a few blocks were still encrypted (or marked as encrypted anyway) which was causing the problem.

can you link me to that method? doom9's search isint working.

[MackemX]

try these

DVDDecrypter (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/backup/dvdd1.htm)

SmartRipper (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/backup/sr1.htm)

[SniperKilla]

i did those already, i even ran the ripped dvd through both programs again, and its still saying i have encrypted data, meanwhile dvd shrink goes throuigh it with no problem

[Antonio S.]

@MisterX:

About DVD Shrink video quality...

Do you had noticed (even using level 2) that there is some micromovement in all parts of the video created with DVD Shrink? Is like if the image is compose of small points and there is some inestability in their color. If you carefully check, the color of the image is changing or shifting very fast, especially with reds. Is the same behavior that use to have analog video cameras that doesn't have "Digital Comb Filter". This error is worst with "level #3". I transcoded same images with DVD95Copy, and I did't notice it, even when the resultant file was smaller...

Antonio S.

[kalvnhobbz]

So in re-authoring mode, there's no way of maintaining the menu's whil getting rid of extras?

I'm a little confused, because it seems like you can't - but there's a checkbox to "Include Menus" while the help file says "If you add a menu movie segment to your re-authored DVD, then it will not operate as a menu."

[golfextreme]

It's not a bad little program for med length movies, but I tried to do Star trek DS9 and it was horrible. I'll have to stick to IC for multi-episode discs.

[MackemX]

@ Antonio S. , I never got the chance to use level 2, only level 3 & 4 and even then I was no where near 4.37Gb

the blocking/pulsing/whatever it is, is far worse on my TFT as the TV improves the pic a helluva lot. Some people may not see it but that depends on hardware they view it with, what compression rates they used and the quality of the original video in the 1st place and finally their judgement of what they consider quality :)

You can't knock it tho cos it's free and will appeal to people but I'm quite happing using my InstantCopy/DVD95Copy hybrid method for now cos the end result is unbeatable for the amount of effort/usertime than any other tool can produce

so until someone makes the tool similar to the one I want in the post I just put up, I guess I'll stick with the same method for now :(

@ SniperKilla, you sure it didn't work with check keycode once setting?

@ kalvnhobbz, sure looks that way :(

[kalvnhobbz]

So what is the "Include Menus" checkbox for...?

[MackemX]

when you list the PGC's in the drop down re-author list, it also includes the menu's so you can add them

like I said when you do add them it just creates a new VTS_0x.1.VOB for them :(

[rpboy]

Originally posted by SniperKilla
can you link me to that method? doom9's search isint working.
Here are two links:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67082

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=65935

Hope that helps you.

[aaz]

Tried to copy the Last Castel, it rash in 90%.
Did any one has the same problem?

[mrbass]

ok now I'm pulling back...I just compared two movies one at level 2 and one at level 3. Only one frame outta the four dvdshrink was better than dvd2one..(must've been a b-picture who knows). Anyway let's just say that it has a lot of potential and for a first release it's pretty awesome. I'm gonna see now about level 1....cuz I'm pretty picky and won't be using it most likely for anything above level 1. I guess it's like you guys said...if he can improve algorithm and get it to 4.36 then we got a winner.

I was really excited about dvdtoolbox stripping main movie and encoding with IC but filesize still is a humdinger of a dinger. Perhaps the hackers might wanna help out dvdshrink (I know it ain't open-source but it is free) and see if you can't help dvdshrink with his algorithms/ calculations.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?&threadid=44321

edit: ok these are my current thoughts (http://www.mrbass.org/dvdshrink/) ...I hope to change them soon. Not sure about dvd2one...I think more like if the audio 5.1 and main movie is 5.6 to 5.8GB then it's ok to use dvd2one (my opinion only)...anyway for what it's worth...not much mind you

[paulusz]

I was happy to use SmartRipper or DVDDecrypter with InstantCopy or DVD2ONE until I run into problem with the backup of The Day OF The Jackal (PAL zone 2&4). It just did not worked as some blocks got corrupted and IC refused it and DVD2ONE created 2 coasters (my only ones). At one stage I thought that my original (brand new) DVD had some problem or some new copy-protection was used...than I tried DVDShrink 1.02 for decrypting and it did work!!! After that I could use IC or DVD2ONE or DVDShrink to complete the process. So it is obvious to me that DVDShrink uses new technology for encrypting that is in my case superior to SmartRipper or DVDDecrypter. Just a hint for people who have decrypting issues with some DVDs...try DVDShrink for decrypting and you might succeed.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by mrbass
edit: ok these are my current thoughts (http://www.mrbass.org/dvdshrink/) good info for all the movie only fans, but it should read 'I couldn't give a hoot about menus, extras, etc.' cos personally I could give a hoot about menus, extras, etc cos I'm a 1:1 fan :D

ain't it funny how all these progs change your opinion all the time. My head is spinning :confused:

who knows what tomorrows gonna bring :rolleyes:

[int 21h]

Originally posted by paulusz
I was happy to use SmartRipper or DVDDecrypter with InstantCopy or DVD2ONE until I run into problem with the backup of The Day OF The Jackal (PAL zone 2&4). It just did not worked as some blocks got corrupted and IC refused it and DVD2ONE created 2 coasters (my only ones). At one stage I thought that my original (brand new) DVD had some problem or some new copy-protection was used...than I tried DVDShrink 1.02 for decrypting and it did work!!! After that I could use IC or DVD2ONE or DVDShrink to complete the process. So it is obvious to me that DVDShrink uses new technology for encrypting that is in my case superior to SmartRipper or DVDDecrypter. Just a hint for people who have decrypting issues with some DVDs...try DVDShrink for decrypting and you might succeed.

There are only a few ways to decrypt my friend... perhaps your settings were incorrect.

[geffroman]

IF YOU DON'T COMPRESS THE HELL OUT OF STUFF THIS TOOL IS AWESOME...

Even if it wasn't FREE I would take it over the others

Instant Copy is buggy as $#!t - Updates ever hour

DVD2One spends all their engineering time on copy protection - first out last with features

DVD95Copy is better with features but no better quality than DVD2One

DVD Shrink has far more options, It Decrypts from Disc so you can eliminate DVDDECRYPTOR... It allows choice of compression on each VTS... It allows selection of audio and subtitles... It allows Movie ONLY... It outputs files OR ISO... It's fast as the fastest, no bugs to speak of and FREE...!

Do the MATH...! This stuff KICKS...!

[kalvnhobbz]

it doesn't output ISO yet. u also forgot to mention image quality, one place instantcopy is still better than the rest...

but it is pretty awesome anyway. :D

[mrchri5]

I just did a movie only of training day and it gave me 4.11 gigs. i can hardly tell the difference from viewing the original. IC gave me 3.91 gigs and doesn't look nearly as good. this is just the program I was looking for. most extras are junk anyway and you can never be completely original unless dvd-9 writer comes out so why bother with all the extras?

[MackemX]

I've done my math :(

one bug (well niggle) springs to mind is that you cannot get 4.37Gb everytime

your quality comparisions are based on movie only which is debatable and according to mrbass's early opinion only level 1 is acceptable as a compression method for movie only

so that doesn't leave many options apart from most movies only conversions that may get you 4.37GB if your lucky

regarding speed, ripping direct from the drive if you look a little more closely you will see that processing direct from DVD actually takes longer than if you have the ripped files on your HD and processed from there, so the time saving aint that great

don't get me wrong, it's a great program especially for movie only as you can just strip it straight out and crop it and it also has loads of promise and I will donate when the author sets something up to assist with this development, but as of now it's no good as a 1:1 backup tool that the other 3 are now mainly aimed at doing

really there are TWO markets to satisfy, those who want movie only and those who want the movie plus the option to keep some menus/extras and sadly this program will only satisfy most of the movie only market for now till it evolves (poll me thinks :))

All I want is a Title/VOB ID removal tool implemented that actually works and I'm sure there are quite a few more that would like that too

p.s. mrchris5, are you sure about that quality comparision?

[paulusz]

Originally posted by int 21h
There are only a few ways to decrypt my friend... perhaps your settings were incorrect.

Well, You might have a point here since I'm not an expert of decrypting but thanks to the smart softwares I backed up about 20 DVDs using mostly SmartRipper and occasionally DVDDecrypter. The exception is "The Day Of The Jackal" (PAL zone 2&4) that I am still unable to decrypt using the above 2 softwares with many different settings. Lucky for me DVDShrink came to my rescue. I wish I had a better understanding what went wrong with the other 2 softwares...

[Blackout]

Hi,

its pretty obvious to me that the program thats gonna win out of all these (Instant Copy, dvd2one, DVDshrink, etc) is the one that will allow you to use CCE to do the actual encoding...ie, you point the program to the CCE .exe file, and it feeds the parameters to it...and then colleates the rest of the disc.


Who wants to win this DVD-assembly program race then? Who's going to step up to the plate...DVDShrink?

[MackemX]

If Pinnacle got their ass into gear and IC worked as effeciently as DVD95Copy and DVD2One regarding IFO updating and sizing, it would be 95% of the program that a CCE program would be, shame really

If it did work as efficiently it would probably satisfy 95% of the users

every program does a little of what the perfect program should do, the winner will be the one that implements them all into one tool

developers, forget ripping and burning, there are simple tools for that and if people are too lazy to rip a DVD and burn a DVD then they are really lazy. The whizz's can always build a shell afterwards to fit the rip, process, burn process's together for lazy people who can only be at the PC to press the BIG RED BUTTON :D

concentrate on a tool that basically takes out what you don't want and spits out 4.37Gb but maintains the structure (include a movie only option for the movie only fans). Creating dummy entries is probably the safest way to go to maintain the structure if removing selected extras and will ensure better playback compatability

IC can do the audio/subs streams no problems now and DVD95Copy can do PGC dummy entries no problems so somebody please implement it all together, a bit like my dream tool I posted before

ta :D

[herrde]

Originally posted by MisterX
every program does a little of what the perfect program should do, the winner will be the one that implements them all into one tool

concentrate on a tool that basically takes out what you don't want and spits out 4.37Gb but maintains the structure (include a movie only option for the movie only fans).

This says it all and is exactly what I feel!

Since yesterday (and being a fan of 1:1 copies as well), I have been quite enthusiastic about DVD Shrink. I have only used IC7 before (which I've been quite happy with), and more or less the only thing that annoys me (like a lot of people here...) is that it doesn't hit the 4.37 GB spot exactly enough. I am more than willing to accept that it takes a whole lot longer to process a DVD than DVD Shrink does if this could finally be resolved.

On the other hand, the big (and for me almost the only) con of DVD Shrink is indeed this "level"-based recompression. I too have experienced some DVD's which would come out of the program either too large or way too small, depending on which level you choose. If this wouldn't be the case, then for me, DVD Shrink would win over IC7. I did a rough picture comparison on my equipment and must say that I noticed almost no difference when using compression rates of over 70% of the original (which I always try to aim at).

DVD95COPY in its latest Version (1.4b, I believe) sounds quite promising as well with its new features... maybe the final winner? Will check it out for sure!

All the best,

Gero

[airedale]

compared to doing this with the manual means of CCE, is the quality worse than if you were to do it with CCE? I think it sounds like a great program, but if I can not get the same quality as CCE... it may not be worth it...

[MackemX]

@ herde,
1.4 full is out now, and it wudda been sooner for most, if Digimedic never had a crash

it's much better now, but it's still missing that magic PGC/VOB ID Removal but apart from that it's just about right

if your lucky enough to have IC, you can use that to encode your main movie to roughly the size what you would get using DVD95Copy and copy menu/extras at 100% (removing relevant audio/subs also maintaining mapping) and then run the IC resulting files through DVD95Copy but set the option for the main title to no recompression so you get top quality main movie from IC mated with the excellent compression of DVD95Copy for menu/extras and it all fits into 4.37Gb

I did this manually before with Ifoupdate but now you just do it with a few clicks, ok so it takes an hour extra for movie from IC but if you are fussy bowt movie quality then this is for you

can anything give you better than that for user input at the moment? :D

@ airedale,
all depends what you do really and how high your standard of acceptable quality is

if it's movie only with the smaller movies and you use level 1 it may not be worth the fuss of CCE, but over a certain size then CCE will be the better option for quality, even DVD2One & DVD95Copy also

mrbass is the guy, if you wanna look for pointers on what he does with movie only as he's normally shows his limits for certain tools to use (earlier in this thread somewhere)

movie and menu/extras is basically 1:1 with this tool, take it or leave it :(, unless you strip it 1st before feeding it to DVDShrink

or if you are happy with having each title in a separate titleset you can use the reauthor mode

[mrchri5]

Originally posted by MisterX

p.s. mrchri5, are you sure about that quality comparision?


I used the level 1 and to my eyes it looks nearly as good. would I be able to tell more of a difference if I compared with powerdvd instead of tv?

[MackemX]

Originally posted by mrchri5
I used the level 1 and to my eyes it looks nearly as good. would I be able to tell more of a difference if I compared with powerdvd instead of tv? it will all depend on your two setups really and eye for quality

my TFT monitor displays a worse pic than my Sony TV, yet my CRT monitor displays a better image than my LG TV upstairs :confused:

that's probably one of the main reason's that the quality flame wars start as people see different pics, now add to that confusion their individual perception of quality and you get one big argument :D

[devanand50]

Hi MisterX,

Would it be possible for you to write a Guide for DVD Shrink - to get the best results and make it easy for all of those who do not understand DVD jargon. You have a done an Excellant job with your other Guide. How about one for DVD Shrink?( I know you can do it )
Thanks.

[MackemX]

try this for now until someone does one, cos I won't be doing one yet cos I won't be using it

German guide translated to English (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kreativhosting.com%2Fdvdshrink%2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

I'm sure KreatiV may knock an English version up if one ain't already avaialable

bear this hint in mind HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50586)

[mrbass]

I'll do a DVDShrink guide(movie only) sometime today but like I said before I only recommended using DVDShrink if you can get it to Level 1 compression or Level 0 (no compression). I'm a picky son of a gun.

@MisterX you're probably right about creating dummy cells, etc. if one is seeking a 1:1.

[devanand50]

T H A N K Y O U Guys. You are the MEN.

Thanks.

[kwag]

I've done a small quality test comparing DVD2ONE against DVD Shrink. It's down this thread: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3535
You decide ;)

-kwag

[MackemX]

will it not depend on the frame type or whatever :confused:, the technical guys will explain it better


I did notice the blocking on DVD Shrink was smaller, it was more rectangular (standing sideways) in my few test runs but that was about it and DVDInstant95Copy hybrid will do 4 me :D

[Codewiz]

Would you guys say that using DVD shrink is bad to use for removing extras, audio, and parts of the movie? I know this can be done with Ifoedit and vobrator but dvd shrink makes it so easy. I like being able to easily remove the credits and audio streams all in the same program.

I know that IC butchers the IFOs but does DVD shrink do a good job of removing entries correctly?

[mrbass]

here's my comparison too.....only one frame did dvdshrink have better quality. Notice there is no level 1 in here which looks great.
http://www.mrbass.org/dvdshrink_dvd2one_pics.zip

@CodeWiz...yes it's GREAT for removing stuff like DVDToolbox...not only can you cut credtis for an additional 120MB or 300MB (rough estimate) but could also see if it'll work directly from the dvd-rom and if so do it from there.

DVDToolbox would take 15 mins to rip with dvddecrypter then about 6-8mins to strip stream it. If you attempt to see the stream sizes directly off the DVD from dvdtoolbox it won't work so don't attempt it as it'll report totally inaccurate sizes.

DVDShrink could probably do the whole stripping within 15mins or less and be done with it (I'll test this out). I have ripped with dvddecrypter all files and then stripped it with dvdshrink and that works perfect.

And two movies would not fit if I were to strip it with DVDToolbox they were like 4.45GB or 4.5GB just barely would make it (Signs was one of them) but cutting out the credits (just left about 30secs to 1min of credits) gave me the additional space needed. Time to strip it was about 7 to 8mins.

[MackemX]

mrbass, that one of scantily clad Sigourney Weaver, is the original mixed up?

[mrbass]

yes it was....hot damn....that was a test...hehe
ok anyway fixed it and reuploaded it...thanks for the alert.

[mrbass]

ok based on a pm Mister X sent me.....I am back and won't be so harsh on dvdshrink.....Level 1 and Level 2 seem to be fine as long as the target size in dvdshrink is say above 4.10GB I'd say go for it. However, I really don't recommended doing Level 3 or Level 4.

BTW I really need to introduce a new acronym which I'm tired of typing out...how about it
MM+A+S = Main Movie + Audio + Subtitles

I'm constantly referring to MM+A+S size when talking about DVDToolbox and DVDShrink. Some think when I say Signs size is 4.45GB is the total movie when in fact it's over 6GB but the MM+A+S stream stripped is 4.45GB and then cutting credits give it's 4.37GB.

or is MMASSS better? (Main Movie+Audio+Subs Stream Stripped)

[geffroman]

I think some folks are missing one thing about DVD Shrink... When I Shrink I don't use the LEVEL compression across the whole DVD... I use it subjectively through out each VTS section to get the desired result... This way I maximize movie quality while stealing a litttle space from extras and menus...

Let's face it though... If you want perfection there are some movies just too large to include ANY extras or menus... That's when I break out a flipper disk and split across two sides... I put all extras and menus and first part of the movie on side one... Second jhalf of movie on side two setting it to start where it left off... now I have everything and perfect video...

But if it is doable to keep everything AND slip in all the extra stuff on 4.37GB DVD Shrink at this point has the most flexibility and reliability... and the GUI seems to be the most stable and professional of them all... GO FIGURE... It's FREE...

It would mean nothing to me that it's FREE if it was junk... It just suprises me that the one that looks expensive compared to the others is the FREE one...

[mrbass]

Originally posted by geffroman
I think some folks are missing one thing about DVD Shrink... When I Shrink I don't use the LEVEL compression across the whole DVD... I use it subjectively through out each VTS section to get the desired result... This way I maximize movie quality while stealing a litttle space from extras and menus...


I wasn't aware you could do that....then again I haven't even tried 1:1 with it. I did try main movie only (set to level 2) and then was going to add just one extra feature (about 24min video) but it would be Level 3 so I decided against it. In other words I knew you can define custom levels of compression for each PGC you add but wasn't aware you could customize the 1:1...good to know.

[mpucoder]

Originally posted by Blackout
Hi,

its pretty obvious to me that the program thats gonna win out of all these (Instant Copy, dvd2one, DVDshrink, etc) is the one that will allow you to use CCE to do the actual encoding

Skimming throught this I'm not sure if somebody answered this, so I will. Any program that uses CCE would not fit into this class of program, ie self-contained transcoders. If you want to use CCE in an automated fashion try DoCCE4U. There is an entire forum dedicated to this http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=66

[MackemX]

Originally posted by mrbass
or is MMASSS better? (Main Movie+Audio+Subs Stream Stripped)
I've got movie retained b??????? audio subs stripped

missing the b

@ geffroman
I used the customize streams options everytime I've used it but what levels are you setting them at, cos I either had to use level 4 throughout still to get 4Gb or Level 3 for main movie making around 4.44Gb and that was keeping menu/extras all at level 4. I could never find the balance to get 4.37Gb for 3 DVD's I tried. I just click the options, Show Audio and tick em, Show Subs and tick em and then finally Show Video and set levels but always had to set Level 4 for main title due to 0.6Gb difference between Level 3 & 4 for that title :(. Guess I keep to much but I'm used to doing that being spoilt by IC

and cos there is no title removal feature I would just have to either strip stuff manually or run it through again to fine tune size and then that would may have an0 effect on the frames

I'd rather just put the original in if I wanna watch extras at high quality cos most of the decent stuff from extras you wanna keep from DVD's can be compressed highly with DVD95Copy but still be acceptable to watch while still having a very high standard for the main movie even with my fussy levels but that's probably down to my methods. Again on special occasions and with white rubber gloves on and everything disinfected, I will get the originals outta their vacuum sealed chamber :)

this will get better, but until then I'll hold off

p.s. has the author setup a donation option yet?

[2COOL]

Originally posted by MisterX
I've got movie retained b??????? audio subs stripped

missing the b

How about this?
menu ridden better audio subTitles stripped
Oo..<*)D))>{

[MackemX]

movie-only ripped best audio subs selected

[2COOL]

Piggy-backing on your acronym...
movie-only ripped best and streams selected

or

movie-only ripping best and selecting streams

[debug77]

Hi all

Been reading these forums for ages now but finally decided to post. Well, decided a while ago, but there's that cool-off period thing there ;)

Anyway. Just thought I'd post my experiences with DVD Shrink so far...

1st attempt: X-Men / Region 1 / Straight off the DVD.
Just just over 1hr to rip and encode the entire movie. The only way it would fit on a DVDR was at Level 4. The other levels were way over. After it had finished, I noticed it hadn't removed any region protection - even though I had ticked all the region boxes. Fixed that with IFOEdit, and tried it in PowerDVD. Quality on the menus seemed average at best. The movie itself seemed somewhat better but I wasn't really happy with it. Anyway... that didn't deter me.

2nd attempt: 8 Mile / Region 1 / Ripped with DVD Decrypter first.
Took about 25 minutes in DVDShrink. However this time I decided to get a littly wacky with the options. The original VIDEO_TS folder on 8 Mile is 7.87gb so I wasn't holding up much hope. After it had scanned the disk to work out the different "Levels", I chose "Customize Streams" and knocked the levels of the extras down and moved the main movie to level 2 (I THINK!). Also removed a few of the foreign language soundtracks. One thing I notice that was good was that it showed the new dvd size, allowing me to tweak it until I got it as close to a full dvd as I could. Gave it a directory path to put the files in and set it going. 25 mins later I had exactly what I'd asked for, the entire dvd in 4.31gb. Tried it in PowerDVD. Worked fine. I was VERY impressed with the quality of this attempt. VERY...

Oh well. Perhaps the best things in life ARE free.

One last thing, people asking for a FAQ or tutorial on it could do a lot worse than checking the help file that comes with it. A very rare beast in free software! :) Helped me out a treat with the Customize Streams.

[MackemX]

movie-only ripping best audio subtitle streams

p.s. a guy on vcdhelp reckoned that Nero 5.5.10.30 changed region setting after using DVDShrink and now you also mention it debug77 but not using nero. When I ticked them all I just get regions 1-8 enabled in the main IFO, is this not the case for every DVD then?

[aGeS]

My first attempt with this new proggy:

U-571 Collectors Edition ripped straight off the disc.

Had to put every video stream down to level 4 and leave out 2 audio streams to get the predicted size under 4.37GB. Had the program running for about 35-40 min. at my XP1800.

Quality of the main movie was quite low and much worse than what DVD2One makes. I don't usually use DVD2One but have tested it with the same movie (U-571) once.

What was also bad was that the final size of the output files made a total af 4.41GB.


Conclusion: This proggy got alot of new and kewl features to offer but it still needs alot of work before it can keep up with DVD2One, InstantCopy and such.
Ofcourse it might be good when you got movies that dont need alot of compression before they fit a DVD5 but with large DVD9 it just cant match DVD2One... yet!

[Codewiz]

I am not using the program at all for compression. I am just using it because it is easy to modify streams and vobs so I have more space for Instantcopy use.

[mpucoder]

There is a difference between region flags and RCE. AFAIK none of the programs here hunt down RCE, which is active code (commands). For RCE removal use IfoEdit, or go for generated PGCs (movie only).

[mrbass]

RCE is that thing dvd studios put on dvds to prevent Region Free dvd players (like in Australia) from playing DVDs at all. Has this RCE note being removed been a factor in burnt DVD-Rs not playing in Region free (hacked firmware) with dvd standalone players? I'm curious now.

[mrbass]

Originally posted by MisterX
movie-only ripping best audio subtitle streams


I think I'll go with that one..thanks MisterX and 2Cool for the suggestions. morbass you gotta love it and it's easy for me to remember for some odd reason
"...and if you can get the MORBASS size down to 4.37GB..."

[geffroman]

DVD Shrink, DVD95Copy and DVD2One all do just about the same quality when you compress the same amount of Data within reasonable ranges no greater than 30%... InstantCopy does a little better job with quality if you can live with it's bugs. Those facts are not in disput by those in the know.

Others shrink the hell out of all but main movie as a default... DVD Shrink shrinks all data equally but allows so much more. You can't compare DVD2One or DVD95Copy to DVD Shrink unless you use the same parameters... If you do, the difference in result is not going to be visible unless you compress below reasonable standards... If you want to compare 45% compression on one program to 37% compression on another then you are not interested in quality anyway and comparison is really irrelevant...

Don't get me wrong... I don't favor one or the other... I use the best tool for the job... My arsenol contains IFOEdit, Nero, SmartRipper, DVDDecryptor, DVD2One, DVD SHRINK, VOBRATOR and many others... These I use daily... It just depends on the original as to what approach I take...

What people are finding out is that you just CANT compress 9 Gigs of stuff onto 4.37 Gigs and expect it to look like 9 Gigs...

The best copy protection Hollywood has is this sizing issue...

If you want all menus and all special features and full movie at high quality all on on 4.37 disc then you MUST USE CCE... and learn a lot about doing this... and spend HOURS...

If you have been doing this stuff manually you understand the limitations... If you are learning with 15 minute Transcoders and want to compare them side to side you need to understand how they work... what the parameters are doing to all the data before you can compare movie quality...

Everything is a compromise... If it wasn't you would just go buy a second copy of your movie from Amazon.com and not bother with all of this...

And as a side note... if you are doing 35 minute or longer transcodes on an XP1800 then you have other issues with that computer to look at as well... Unless that was Decrypting time included...

Lastly, I'd like to thank DOOM9 and specifically "2COOL" and all the guys that have made it possible for me to even get this far... You guys rock...

Regards... Jeff

PS - Did you know DVD Shrink even allows splitting of PGC at the FRAME level... That you can pick and choose VTS/PGCs to include in a project... Don't let the small window fool you into thinking this program is as limited as the others... It is quite powerful...

[firewired]

Just finished Resident Evil: R1, not the Superbit, processed into an ISO image using DVDDecrypter. DVD Shrink took 16 minutes on my overclocked P4 2.2 -- which elicited a collective gasp from all of us who were present.

I transcoded using the custom streams option: Kept all the extras Dropped the DTS track Dropped the French 5.1 track Used Level 1 for the movie Used Level 3 for the extras.Original size was just shy of of 6 GB. Transcoded size was 4.22 GB.

My impressions? Movie detail was amazingly accurate and comparable to the original. Couldn't tell the difference on my 34" Sony Wega DRC. Take note I was using Level 1 so loss was minimal.
Menus were left at full size, shades of several failed experiences with Instantcopy.
The extras at Level 3 were passable. not surprisingly, blocks were evident particularly during high motion scenes. Interview shots were fair. Overall, quality kind of reminded me of a VCD.
So far, I'm a happy camper. I'll try this on a couple of problem cases tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

[hattia]

If I have to compare against re-mpeg....I would say that this soft is a miracle...

If I have to compare against CCE....I would say that this soft is ready for garbage....

...CCE still the winner...very ahead of the others !!

[2COOL]

Originally posted by hattia
If I have to compare against re-mpeg....I would say that this soft is a miracle...

If I have to compare against CCE....I would say that this soft is ready for garbage....

...CCE still the winner...very ahead of the others !!

Did you read this post in this thread that mpucoder mentioned about CCE and DVD Shrink? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=292179#post292179

CCE does not fit into this class of DVD shrinking softwares.

[aGeS]

When I normally make DVD9->DVD5 convertions I also use CCE but I think its very exciting to test all those new tools that seems to do a fair job while being fast. I do know that tools like DVD2One use transcoding instead of encoding and that this gives it its "advantage" in speed.

When you talk about comparing data you don't have to go into details always. I got the same movie as input and want the same output size (4,37GB) from all 'em programs.
From a average users point of view (someone who just wants to make DVD9->DVD5 and dont wanna use the time to master CCE) you dont care about how the program achieves this as long as the output is 4,37GB and the quality is good.
The ones amongst us that knows about compression, transcoding, CCE, Scenarist etc. etc. can talk hours about the tech behind these new programs like DVD2One, DVD Shrink, DVD95Copy and InstantCopy BUT the average user dont give shit. This user just wants the best result without having to spend hours figuring out different tech matters.

This is why I compare input/output and size - that is what matters to most users of these programs as explained above.


Before replying plz get me right: This shall not keep us from discussing the tech behind the programs but it is clearly not wrong trying to test programs as most users will do - only the parameters input/output, size and quality.

[Areku]

This one's for Doom9 and for all of you to check:

Official home page for DVDShrink is http://dvdshrink.org

Comments are welcome!

Thanks! ;)

[n.phelge]

Originally posted by SniperKilla
i did those already, i even ran the ripped dvd through both programs again, and its still saying i have encrypted data, meanwhile dvd shrink goes throuigh it with no problem

I had the same problem. The movie I processed through DVDShrink was one that I had already ripped to the harddrive using DVDDecryptor, so I wouldn't think that anything should have been encrypted. But, DVD2One gave me an 'encrypted data' error. When I initially used DVDShrink, I only had the Region 1 toggle selected - maybe that is a factor?

I took the files, loaded them in IfoEdit, and did 'Region Free' and 'Get VTS Sectors', which did some corrections. DVD2One still complained about encrypted data, and then when I tried to load the files into DVDShrink, it gave an error and would not process them.

What Region options are folks selecting for their DVDShrink processing?

[MackemX]

just tick them all then it's region free as it enables 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 & 8

check the main IFO before you burn or process or whatever you do :)

as for the encryption errors with DVD2One, maybe DVDShrink is Key-checking every Vob instead of once

[MackemX]

again CCE raises it head, we all know CCE gives the best quality from compression and like for like there is only one tool out of the 4 other self contained packages that can touch it and that is IC

the guys on this forum who have other tested it for themselves fairly or have seen the fair comparisions laid out will agree. At high compression levels the difference is minimal and only apparent during a freeze frame zoomed analysis on a high definition monitor. At 85%+ on the majority of TV's it is probably impossible to tell them apart from the odd part of a frame during some scenes. The lower the compression the bigger the difference gets between the 2 but again during playback on the majority of TV's it's not as obvious

even at 70%, IC can produce a good standard of quality that is more than acceptable for 90% of people out there for a backup and the same goes for the other 3 at say 80-85% rates

but CCE is probably not an option for over 95% of people who wish to backup not just due to mastering the program, there are few factors which I don't need to list (but will if need be) as to why people don't use CCE

now that don't leave many people opting for CCE and I feel that more CCE users will be persuaded to change to one of the other tools in time than vice versa

InstantCopy is the program that has came close to CCE capabilities but Pinnacle are paying the price for it trying to save time using one pass due to random sizing. Add the few niggly (but overcomable in most occasions) bugs and it's no good for some users

Now if they actually decided to implement a 2 pass(or even optional pass ammount) which would fix the sizing, I wonder how many of the diehard CCE fans would jump ship? and if they fixed the two main bugs then a few more would jump again

I've jumped now mainly for the saving in user input and effort cos when I ready to process my backup after say 10-15mins of Ifoedit, I normally get over 80%(more than acceptable) for my main movie using IC with about 5 minutes input and then I use DVD95Copy for the extras afterwards to get some decent quality menu/extras (roughly 50% of people ain't even interested in menu/extras) but more importantly 4.37Gb

from DVD9 original to DVD5 burning in 20-25mins simple input :D

I wonder how many newbies would be persuaded to use CCE after using the other tools which are so easy to master and can actually give good results?. Like I mentioned before, CCE users are dwindling and unless a program that contains roughly the same options as the others offer now and does it all automatically producing a DVD that is ready to burn and the whole package costs less than say 100$ and doesn't take much to master then they will continue to dwindle

Phew!, so to finalise, when a CCE user states that other users should use CCE for their backing up method, they are simply wasting their time as most users in here will have made there mind up anyway whether CCE is an option or not and 99% of newbies, after trying the 4 main tools and the CCE method will also decide that it ain't option for one reason or more

So that not very many people to persuade is it?, one good thing is that it does throw up the good old disussion again :D and no doubt this won't be the last time CCE is compared with the rest and we all have a natter

p.s. I just wish someone would invent an automated DVD stripping tool as would make life so much easier :p

[jdobbs]

On the CCE debates...

There are two routes for backups. The easy way (IC7, DVD95Copy, DVD2one, and DVD Shrink) and the hard way (AVISYNTH, CCE, Authoring, IFOEDIT, and IFOUpdate). Just a couple of months ago the hard way was the only way.

There is no doubt that you will get better quality from the hard way. My personal experience leads me to believe that fact to be true every time (I don't think IC7's quality rivals CCE at all - but that is debatable). But it takes a lot of time, skill, in-depth knowledge of tools, and you put about $100 worth of labor into backing up a $19 DVD. That isn't necessarily a bad thing -- because you also get really smart on DVDs and their inner workings. On the other hand, many people really don't give a rat's ass about inner workings.

But -- have you ever tried to back up a multiple PGC, multiple angle, interleaved VTS that has blank audio in the middle of it? If you have then you know this method's limitations... The hard way becomes the virtually impossible way.

History shows us that given a choice, most people take the easy route. These "easy" packages don't do a great job, but they do a good job. Sometimes very good.

This is clearly the future of DVD copying. That's the reason I'm watching these packages so closely.

Will CCE play a role in the future? I don't know... maybe. At some point some clever person at Custom Technologies or elsewhere might notice this market and put a nice little transcoding shell around their engine (the best in the world, rivaled only by TMPEGEnc). But if quality always won, we'd all be watching Betamax right now...

[cupfart]

So this program is almost perfect. The ONLY thing that needs to be added is the ability to reencode so you can include ALL the menus and exclude the extra info.

I.E. I was backup up Rush Hour 2 which is a FULL dvd9. So all i expect to get out of it is the Movie and NO extra features which is fine. How many times do you really want to watch the extra crap?

Anyways, you can do this by re-authoring BUT you cannot include the menus because it will just run them as if there were movies.. that is almost pointless.

Or you can re-encode, but you have to include all the extras. Yea, you can downsize them, but even if you'd downsize everything in level 4 the DVD would be too big for a dvdr. What doesn't make sense is that you can exclude audio streams by unchecking them... why can you not exclude the movie too? That's the only think I think that needs to be added.

If I am missing something, please let me know, but it looks like that feature is missing. Once that is added this program will beat the rest of the competition.

[MackemX]

It aint almost perfect though it just almost perfect for movie only options (quality is debatable)

the complete package of movie only/1:1 backup tools, none of the 4 programs are almost perfect as sometimes people want more than just the movie

the best would be a complete hybrid of the best features of each mainly being

DVD95Copy title removal feature - not perfect if you remove menu's but perfect for removing the Titlesets though Title/VobId removal not an option (yet)
InstantCopy's quality & audio/subs removal - option to use this reducing technique or use lesser quality for speed instead. It also keeps original mapping for audio/subs unlike some
DVDShrink's Cropping features & Speed - self explantory

that's why at the moment to guarantee succesful backups everytime I still have to author the DVD previous to feeding them into any of these 4 programs as I want more than just a movie only backup and none of these can remove the menu/extras 100% of the time without failing

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE can someone create a tool that will insert blank frames of 0.xx secs into any PGC/VOBID you wish to replace so that I and others do not have to do this manually using Ifoedit/Ifoupdate, surely it can't be that hard

So basically you rip the DVD, tell the program what you wish to keep, it processes it and spits out a DVD ready now for en/trans-coding if need be but more importantly 100% compliant like the original

It would be setup a bit like DVDToolbox (using DVDShrink's frame analysis for cropping if cell removal was possible) but instead of just doing one stream at a time you can do the lot

giving 4 levels of optional removal. DVDToolbox only goes to Level 2 when it gives you the option to extract

1. Titleset
2. Title
3. VOB ID
4. Cell

you can process the 1st 3 levels manually using Ifoedit/IfoUpdate before feeding it to one of these en/trans-coding tools and it always work which is what I now do religously and never have problems and persuaded a few more to follow, so why do programs now try to do the whole process in one go and as fast as they can yet fail miserably, it's because they try to do it all in one process instead of stages

It takes me 4 stages to backup a DVD

1. Rip all files in Filemode
2. Author by removing the crap using Ifoedit/Ifoupdate
3. Process to reduce (main movie IC and then DVD95Copy to process menu/extras)
4. Burn with Nero

end result is 4.37Gb of DVD with an IC encoded movie and all the menu/extras I decided to keep but most importantly 100% fully compliant in a Standalone. I ain't the world's best DVD backup person but I stick to a routine and it works everytime

Stages 1 & 4 are already easy to do as the tools are out there to do this so Developer's forget about that for now and implement it after if need be! and Stage 3 can be done with any of the 4 programs also without problems apart from the few problematic DVD's

it's the programs that try to do stage 2 that trip up on most occasions as none can remove video 100% of the time and work and the nearest to perfection is DVD95Copy as it inserts the 0.xx sec frames when a Titleset is removed. This is great if you only remove the Titlesets but when people remove the wrong Menu titles then they risk destroying the structure and that's how DVD95Copy trips up

what you need is a tool that will scan the DVD to get exact video sizes (bit like DVDToolbox's analysis) then let the user decide what video/audio to keep, it then removes it properly, then it lets the user decide what rates to compress it by

after telling this removal tool/feature what you want to keep, it would take 10-15 mins to process but it would maintain the complete original DVD structure because it would be inserting blank frames. In fact after it's done the optional analysis it could even ask for reduction rates before processing the DVD to remove unwanted video before reduction if the user couldn't come back after 10-15 minutes

then this tool would reduce the DVD but maintain the structure and if it's over 4.37Gb THEN process the video for reduction and as you are not removing anything during the en/trans-coding process it will still work afterwards

simple but damn effective. I just wish I was a programmer so I could write it myself instead I gotta do it manually with Ifoedit/Ifoupdate until someone does!

In fact it's DVDToolbox in reverse cos instead of extracting a Title stream you want to keep you are extracting the streams you don't want but having the option of removing more than just one stream

surely it can't be that hard and hopefully some bright spark will read all the crap above and see my ideas behind the method and create the perfect backup tool or at least a DVD stripping tool that can be used before one of the other programs :D

[cupfart]

If I movie on the dvd is 4 gigs and I want to keep the quality, I am not going to compress it. So I don't understand peoples complaints about wanting a program that will do a 1:1 copy of everything - it's just not going to be the same with you compress a 9gig file to a 4 gig file. Your going to lose quality. If you want all the goodies and quality of a dvd, then watch the REAL dvd..

[MackemX]

cupfart (cool name :D), you obviously are a movie only fan but if you look at another post I put up in the forum you will see there are actually more movie+menu+extras guys than movie only guys who posted in that thread

I strip the garbage I don't want and on most occasions I normally compress the movie at around 85% using IC and the extras at 40% using DVD95Copy. OK the quality of the extras isn't perfect but it's more than acceptable on my TV for me but at least I have what I want and also have a high quality main movie

People who backup DVD's are mostly trying to preserve the originalsto stop other's from wrecking them from careless handling whether in the home or when you loan them out, but some do it for other reasons :D

the movie only option solution has been around for ages and ages and DVD2One was the 1st to offer such simplicity with the BIG RED BUTTON option but personally if I wanted movie only I would probably still use CCE Basic & Ifoedit but that's another story

until just recently there were no complete packages that could do 1:1 backups or offer the option to get rid of the crap you don't want. You needed both the knowledge, time and money to create such projects

IC changed all that as it was the 1st tool to attempt it and although it failed, it's still one helluva tool when mastered (which is easy) and has it's uses. DVD95Copy came along and offered more reliability than IC and eventually DVD2One did 1:1

and now DVDShrink also has joined the 1:1 backup tools field (it's not just a movie only tool, it's actually a 1:1 tool that has other features :p)

but as of yet not one can remove the stuff you don't want perfectly on 99% of DVD's and the 1st to do so right to to movie only and offer decent quality will be King of the roost :D

but even a separate stripping tool would be good and no doubt one will arise soon and the sooner the better for me :p

[cupfart]

I guess you could put me in that category. I have a HDTV and I want full quality of the movie. Most of the time I find the extras to be crap, but some of them are hilarious like Rat Race had a blooper outtake. I would definitely have to add that one...

I also know the whole deal with having to take hours of time to backup one dvd... I'd say my time spent on backup up a dvd is not worth the price of just buying the same dvd if it gets screwed up. Now with the "one button wonders" it's no problem.

I have taught myself quite a bit over the past year with the dvd structure as I have made my own DVD for cupfart.com (that's where the name comes from). I just need to take some time to make the dvd case cover and dvd cover, but I haven't work with graphics for a while. But this is a little besides the point whatever it was :)

Anyways.. it's just surprising that dvdshrink through the re-encode mode will allow you to unselect a ac3 stream but not a move.. that's all he needs to add. Seems like it should be perty simple with the file structure.

[waldok]

Time to drop the old "CCE vs the world" war and let me explain the point of view of a DIF4U+CCE+reauthorist fan. MisterX, you know I'm a great CCE defender, but I know you'll understand my point here.

All this debate about quality is just a matter of personal perception. I won't quote that quality is in the eyes of the beholder and such blabla. Still, this really is a personal and individual matter.
As for me, I tested all these tools (DVD2one, DVD95Copy, IC, DVDShrink and I can't get by far a satisfactory quality. That's a "personal" fact, friends who saw the movies obtained with the tools find they are OK, I simply don't. Call me stubborn, but I'm the one who's watching the backups so I like to please myself :) That's why I'll stick with the good old CCE method, with which I get fantastic quality everytime. Putting comparisons aside, there is something nobody can argue with, CCE is a great MPEG2 encoder.

Now, there is no comparison possible between the manual and th automated methods, and I feel there is no way CCE fanatics will drop it for some "one click" tool. Why ? Simply because it is and will be "transcoding" tools. Shrinking from 9Gb to 4.35 with good hopes in quality requires more than that and implies some accurate bit reallocation at reencoding time, preferably multipass, which those tools won't achieve, simply because it is not their primary goal. That's why I advice to drop the comparisons, because there can be none (and I don't mean there is a good way and a bad way).
I fully respect people who want easy, cheap and quick solutions. Iparticularly respect the efforts that some people here made for understandinghow thse tools work and share this with others (MisterX, MrBass, I mean you). I undeerstand it is a legitimate request not to spend hours trying to backup a DVD. Yes, the "manual" route is long and complex, but people who use it really want to learn and master the process and want what they call quality in the end. These are 2 very different audiences, and there is more than enough room for both in the forums.

Forums are now well organized enough so that adepts of the "manuel way" meet in the DOitFast4u/Docce4u and advanced authoring forum while adepts of the automated way meet here. There should be no argument between both communities since they obviously have different goals. To be honest, I recently used IC with some success for transcoding a prticular slide-show VTS that the manual way wouldn't cope with easily. See, I'm almost lost to the dark side already...:rolleyes:

So peace to you all, I hope you'll find the tool of your dreams soon, I'm back to reauthoring "the hard way"...for my very own selfish pleasure :D

Waldok:cool:

[cupfart]

how can someone lose quality if only the movie and menus are selected and none of it gets compressed? Are you just saying that when you have to compress the dvd to fit, then CCE is the way to go? I personally haven't tested compressed quality because I know it will suck. There is no way a compressed version will look the same as the original.

[MackemX]

@waldok, I agree with in every way, as I too was comfortable using CCE and enjoyed messing about from the learning to the mastering stage and I'm also really fussy about quality

agreed IC is not as good as CCE at the lower compression %'s but the only thing I'm not too sure about is that if during normal playback you can see a worthy time/effort difference from a 85-90% compressed video using CCE & IC then I envy you truely cos you must have one set of good eyes and one helluva a system. Yes there is a difference in quality but it's ever so slight at these high compression rates, so like jdobbs mentioned is it really worth all the time/effort/expense to back up a DVD that would probably cost less than time/effort involved for that minimal difference?

I compress the menu/extras as much as I need to maintain that 80%+ for IC, anything lower something gets stripped that I realistically won't miss as I can always dig out the original if need be. Anything over 85% with IC is more than acceptable unless you have a very very high standard and the means to view it and can actually see the difference with a similar CCE DVD during playback

and if I really want the extras that badly that it affects my main movie all I would do is put them all on another 80p/$1 DVD which would be 100% quality and have the movie+menu on the main DVD which would benefit even more from extra space

so that's how I find it hard to believe that CCE is now really worth the time/effort/expense unless you have all the tools now and the experience to use them already when IC can give such good results for so little effort and get close to CCE at high %'s

like I said if IC did do a 2nd pass or more, not only would the resulting filesize be ok but the quality would increase slighlty as it would know where to compress heavily and where to do it lightly
and I'm sure CCE user numbers would be reduced again

don;t get me wrong, I enjoyed the experience and hours learning and getting excellent results from CCE for the time & effort involved cos it's makes you feel proud hen your project is successful

but now it's so easy to use IC with 80%+ settings and sacrifice that little bit of quality and yet get a better result overall for the time/effort involved and if you want better than that then like you said it's all down to personal standards

this 'war' is a bit like an owner of a Ferrari gatecrashing a Ford Custom Car owners club and saying my car is better than yours

yes the Ferrari is better performance and looks we know that, but some Fords can come close to the Ferrari in performance and the Ford IC Cosworth is one such Ford :D

basically at the end of the day, 99% of people would want the Ferrari but realistically 99% will end up with the Ford (or equivalent) :cool:

[fern420]

well after all my testing i cant realy see a diffrence in dvd2one and dvdshrink, from the naked eye and the foolproff point of veiw. however i see alot of people using example movies to test on that i easily fit on 1 dvd-r by using ifo edit, smart ripper and the old school method of removing unneeded audio tracks. these new programs are great but if alot of the newbies read the oldschool methods they would never need a program like this, and if you do, this is how i look at it, are you going to watch the movie more than once a month? if so spend the extra $1 and make it a 2 disker, i know people hate this but why sacrifice qualtiy to get up one time during a movie to change the disk. these programs i find just perfect for some episodeic dvds like transformers and sanford and son, however i tested dvd2one on sapranos and the quality loss was more than i can handel, i poped the extra $1 to make them into 2 diskers. i guess the major bottom line is do you enjoy that movie enough to spend the extra $1 to make it a 2 disker? if its a "collection" only movie then no go ahead and use a compression type program but ill tell you, i wont dare do a dvd over 6.2 gigs on a program like this, theres noway around a quality loss, and i didnt buy a dvd burner to make svcds, lololol. But all my cudos to the freeware makers, you do a hell of a job on your work and it doesnt cost anyone anyhting, so noone should complain.

[waldok]

Wise enough, MisterX, as usual.
By the way, name is Waldok, not WalDORK (unless you meant it :p)

Splitting movie and extras over 2 DVDRs is not an option for me, wince here in France you won't easily find cheap DVDRs so I'd rather buy the movie again.
Up to now, CCE is the only route that gives me great quality for BOTH the movie AND the extras and allows me to keep everything on a single disc with minimal quality loss.

Maybe when IC or some other comes out with some efficient 2 pass reencoding algorithm then I'll do the move. Not now, John, thanks.

This being said, all I wish for you is to enjoy your movies (after all that's the goal of it all).:)

@cupfart
personally haven't tested compressed quality because I know
it will suck

Sooo wrong. You should definitely try it. You will be surprised by the quality you can maintain with a good reencoding (OK It takes time). Keep in mind some encoded movies will use the available 9GB on a DVD9 just because it is available and won't try to optimize bit allcation at encoding time. The encoding process can usually be optimized for a smaller size and preserve quality and believe me it works pretty well...

Latest example, Mulholand drive R1, movie is spread over 7 VTS in the original disc, more than 8GB data, and it finally compressed to a 3.5GB Vob-set, no noticeable loss in quality. Hard to believe ? Well,
maybe it's time to try it yourself.

Have fun.

Waldo(R)k:cool:

[ulfschack]

I do DVD "backups" of divx /xvids DL:d from the net. Sometimes I dare to make two movies (DVD origianals) and have them both on the same DVD (my kids don't see the difference). But most often I put DV projects on disc and make copies (protection copies really :) ) for select relatives.

Then, sometimes, I actually make a quick "movie-only" copy on RW if me or my wife haven't had time to view the rental before return (time-planning and kids don't mix). THIS is where ic, dvd2one, shrinkDVD, etc come into play, and only here.

Tell me again why CCE should be phased out. And when you can't ... please try to differentiate between transcoding (mindless rewriting) and encoding (intelligent bitdistribution able to make mpegs from scratch so to speak)

(Besides I can't understand why it's "CCE against the world" when TMPGEnc makes the best quality (at least for interlaced DV). So when talking about taking our time to get the absolute best Q, why not take the full step ?)

Hope I don't step on too many toes

cheers

[MackemX]

yep, I agree if the quality suffers that much stick it on another DVD (I didn't know DVD's were that expensive in France :eek:)

episodic DVD's are easily split while maintaning menu's (and much the better option) and even the likes of longer movies of 2hr30min+ will still look ok if you put menu/movie only on one DVD and the menu/extras on another

CCE is only gonna be an option for these who use it now cos very soon and very few newbies will take it up due to the increasing quality from the other stuff, but I do wish CCE technologies or similar would offer an all in one package cos I'm pretty darn sure it would be the Mother of all backup tools and sell 1000's :D

I have just again been onto Pinnacle support about their bugs and offered them another DVD to try help them fix their sizing issue

It is a shame because IC do save the Video quality for each title yet the value is still 0 in the log and discdatafiles even after processing :confused: and if they did implement a 2 pass it would be bloomin great

p.s. just previewed and saw you had posted, greatest apologies my friend, I have changed my post, sorry :(

[ulfschack]

I can take it :)

... and prolly defend it too.

I DO apoligise tho for being OT seeing as this is not really what the title of this thread describes

[MackemX]

IC is not really in the same class engine as the other 3, it's nearer to CCE than those at the higher levels

let's just say that CCE is the MAN UTD (currently one of the best) tool, IC is LIVERPOOL (the best on some occasions and can match MAN UTD) and the rest are mid table teams :D

[ulfschack]

Ok, so in what way am I asking for help towards my "illegal" endeavors? Moral, copying, ownership and all that jazz has been covered in excess allready and I don't think that the mere knowledge that someone on this board hasn't actually paid for everything he or she uses qualifies for closing a thread. If it does however, I'm truly sorry and will stand corrected.

However, as you might have guessed, pirating was not my main concern in the above reply.

cheers


PS I read the chick-car-horse joke ... nice morale :)

[MackemX]

no offence mean't at all by the way, only trying 2 help

I'm edited my posts anyway, it's upto you if you wanna do the same, but bear in mind when you ask for help next some people now know what it could be for :)

[ulfschack]

Apart from the dubious content my opinions are still something that think are worth mentioning.

Point taken, and thanks for the timely warning :)

And to close: When I say DL:d from the net ofcourse I mean from my own LAN where I have legal Divx copies from personal DVDs that I lost through the course of time. But hey, that's why we make these backups in the first place, isn't it?

cheers

[mpucoder]

A couple of things:
@ulfshack It really is a violation of forum rules to admit you have illegally obtained your video.

@all this forum isn't about the relative merits of CCE vs transcoding. CCE will endure, and has several forums related to it (CCE, DoCCE4U, DVD Authoring, et al). It is assumed by coming to this forum that you want to know more about these programs.

This thread is closed now, but you should have noticed there is a new release of DVDShrink, and a new thread for it.