Kiss Player and overscan

[Zarxrax]

I was wondering if the kiss player supports the ability to add borders around the image? Because if it doesn't, I'm worried that I may not be able to read the subtitles on my files, and purchasing this player would just be a waste of money, thanks.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

i don't think anybody here has that player...
it's probably a legend that it exists..(heheh)
beter search on some other forums,and ask away....
(i myself would have at least 10
good questions for owners)
better resort to avs,ars, or something.....

or better,Zarxrax..purchase it,but return it next day after
you do all the testing....
just tell them the image sux,and it's not worthy...hehe

[Top_Cat]

It is available (well at least in the UK wherE I am) I am waiting to see how it handels Divx 3.11aplha if reports are good I think I will get one :)

[MrDarcy]

I can confirm that it does exist, and I own it (but only since a couple of weeks).

With the last software version 2.6.5 it's able to display subtitles, also those stored in separate file (MicroDVD format, for exaple).
But I still haven't tried with a full screen 720x576 movie. Are you talking about Divx movie, aren't you?



Any other question ?

[Zarxrax]

I'm talking about 4:3 video with hardcoded subtitles.

[MrDarcy]

Originally posted by Zarxrax
I'm talking about 4:3 video with hardcoded subtitles.

As far as I understand (I'm still newbie), if you hardcode the subtitles within the AVI, they become video data and the player doesn't need to add borders because subitles are inside the frame. This happens both for software players and for the Kiss player.

If you want them below the picture (and not over the picture), I suppose you need to configure filters during the encoding, but subtitles still are in the frame and the player doesn't need to add borders.

Then, if your movie is alread a full-screen 4:3 picture (PAL 720x576) there is no further space around the picture, and the Kiss player displays "only" the 576 PAL rows.

(if I'm misunderstanding you, please try to explain me what else do you mean with "hardcoded subtitles")

Bye !

[BiBo]

@ MrDarcy:

Does it play back your DIVX3.11 content?

@ Zarxrax:

I found out that this player does no auto zoom to fill the screen with DIVX content. So if your video is not encoded full resolution (756x512), you may be able to read the subtitles. I think your TV is the problem because of its overscan behaviour not the player itself.

Sorry, PAL is 720x576. My fault...

[Zarxrax]

What i'm saying, is on most tvs, it tends to cut off a small area of the picture around the sides. It would suck if I got the player only to find out my subtitles are cut off :|

[MrDarcy]

If the picture is less than 720x576 the player adds borders, otherwise it doesn't.
It has also a zoom function, but only to enlarge pictures (125%, 150%, etc.), not to reduce them.

So, if your picture is alread 720x576, if subtitles are very close to the edge and your TV cuts off a lot, yes, it could happen not to see subtitles.

Bye!

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

and now for some interesting questions;
you said that is adds borders for
ANYTHING less than 720x576,so if i have 352x288
i would have to zoom in,and that would probably
look like crap(?)
does this mean it can't do "nice" upsizing we're acustomed to on monitor/tv-out?

how bout non-standard resolutions
(non "16",non "8" and sometimes even non "4"...hehe)
can it play this?

what does it do with square pixel resolutions?
(for example 640x480)

what's the quality like,when compared to nicely tweaked
ffdshow playback?

can it search (in video) as normal PC programs?

when you zoom-in,can you move the(zoomed) screen?
(like the zoomplayer can)

can it make dinner?
(that would be best all-round feature!lol...)

[heh,my god ....this player will have TOUGH job competing with
some nicer PC software media players.....,and now i'm wondering why am i asking....what firmware can beat PC software?..anyhow...]

[MrDarcy]

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
and now for some interesting questions;
you said that is adds borders for ANYTHING less than 720x576,so if i have 352x288 i would have to zoom in,and that would probably look like crap(?)
does this mean it can't do "nice" upsizing we're acustomed to on monitor/tv-out?


It looks like crap if you zoom at 300% or 400%, but up to 200% (25% step) the result is good.
I'm not able to do a comparison with a tv-out video card, but respect to my LCD monitor, the upsizing by the Kiss is not that bad.


how bout non-standard resolutions
(non "16",non "8" and sometimes even non "4"...hehe)
can it play this?


I just tested a 540x220 without problems. I'm not able to encode with non mod-4 resolutons (got error -2 from VDub and Divx 5.0.2), but according to the Kiss FAQ there should be no problems as well.


what does it do with square pixel resolutions?
(for example 640x480)


AFAIK, Divx always has square pixel. I don't see problems here.


what's the quality like,when compared to nicely tweaked
ffdshow playback?

It's difficult to compare quality between a LCD PC monitor and a standdard CRT TV. Moreover, I'm still too newbie to give you a valid answer :-)


can it search (in video) as normal PC programs?

With Divx it can only search by entering the time you want to jump to. No fast-forward or fast-rewind.


when you zoom-in,can you move the(zoomed) screen?
(like the zoomplayer can)

Yes, using arrow keys on the remote.


can it make dinner?
(that would be best all-round feature!lol...)

No, but it probably can eat dinner, just place it on the CD tray and press "play"!


[heh,my god ....this player will have TOUGH job competing with
some nicer PC software media players.....,and now i'm wondering why am i asking....what firmware can beat PC software?..anyhow...]

Of course it can't compete with PC software, but I think it's a good solution (maybe not so cheap) if you can't connect your PC to the TV and if you don't like to watch movie sitting at the PC desk.

Bye !

[Top_Cat]

MrDarcy: Thanks for your views on the player, it is always good to hear from people who use the hardware. Does anyone have an exact date for the release of the new (divx 3.11) firmware update?

It would be good if MrDarcy could report back about how well it works

Thanks

[Zhnujm]

@MrDarcy:
can it also play divx files from a dvd+-r/rw ? or is divx limited to cd playback ?

thanks

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>I'm not able to do a comparison with a tv-out video card, but respect to my LCD monitor, the upsizing by the Kiss is not that bad.

if you have a friend with a video capture card....
heh,well,just an idea anyhow.....
(hook it up to kiss and make some screenshots..)


>I just tested a 540x220 without problems.

that's good....

>AFAIK, Divx always has square pixel. I don't see problems here.

720x576 is not square pixel.....
(and it fills the screen anyhow...just because it's not
square pixel...try to fill the monitor with 720x576..(and no AR correction by the player))
and it can be 720x576 divx,off course....
(if i want to be sure it's square pixel,i capture
at 768x576...and then i'm sure it'll stay square..
othwerwise i don't know if the resizer is correcting the
pixelAR or keeping it as it is.....
if the resizer is keeping the pixelAR of original 720x576,then
helluva lot of dvd-rips has some AR offset....
(as for example you'll get 640x480 with unsquare
pixelAR,and what's that?)
i don't have dvd player to play with this and say for sure..
(as it happens,PC monitor ALWAYS displays square pixelAR,no matter the input)
but will try to talk some people into it,and if i'm right
i'll drink some blood over at GK forum,as they avoid such
questions....hehe...although it's not so important when the
player program can correct AR as a whole....or better
to say it can correct near 4:3 to perfect 4:3,but how will it correct
letterbox divx resolution(?) which needs to stay at "source AR" setting....food for thought.....)

just to keep you entertained,i have some .pdf which states how do you
correct NTSC D1 pixelAR;
"If you are working on an image where it is essential to see the pixels displayed in their correct aspect ratio - for
example, if you were animating circles - then you would want to resize your clip to 720*540 (which would
correct for the pixel aspect ratio,) do your work, then rescale back to 720*486. Bear in mind that this rescaling
will introduce a slight blurring/softening."

GK would need to do the same to correct the 720 x xxx to sqare pixelAR

>With Divx it can only search by entering the time you want to jump to. No fast-forward or fast-rewind.

and zplayer can do slo-mo in adition (yummi)

>No, but it probably can eat dinner, just place it on the CD tray and press "play"!

hmmm..interesting...(lol!)

that's it from me;
my condolences,mrdarcy,you'll be the subject of many questions now
as you blew your cover (not many users here have that player but are
interested....)

good luck (heh)

regards

/ivo

[MrDarcy]

Originally posted by Zhnujm
@MrDarcy:
can it also play divx files from a dvd+-r/rw ? or is divx limited to cd playback ?

thanks

According to KISS FAQ (www.kiss-technology.com), only DVD-R and DVD-RW are supported.
But I read on another forum that DVD+RW are supported too.

Bye!

[MrDarcy]

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
>
720x576 is not square pixel..... [cut]


The Divx format was born for PC screen where pixel are square regardless of picture resolution, so during playback no AR correction should be necessary.
This is different, for example, from a DVD at 720x576 where pixel aspect ratio is some 1.xxxx or 1.yyyyy (anamorphic or not), and the player must consider this to playback the correct AR.

So, in a Divx you should resize and correct the AR during encondig in order to obtain square pixels that don't need any processing during playback on a PC.

Of course, if you prefer to have non-square pixels Divx, you can. But during playback you have to manually resize/correct the picture that is supposed to be made by square pixels.

The Kiss player follows that rule, it recognizes standard pixel aspect ratio on DVDs and applies the correction, but it supposes a Divx has square pixels.

For example, I capture movies from DVB-S at 544x576. Pixels aren't square at all, they look like anamorphic. I have two choices:
- resize during encoding to obtain square pixels --> I get a Divx ready to playback on the Kiss
- set GKnot to have anamorphic output pixels --> I get a Divx with non-square pixels, the Kiss "thinks" they are square and the picture is squeezed, but I set my 16:9 TV to "widescreen" (the anamorphic setting) and the picture is correct.

All above is what I understood after reading everything from the Gknot forum and related links.
Be careful in believing in what I wrote !! :confused:

Bye !!

[MrDarcy]

Originally posted by Top_Cat
Does anyone have an exact date for the release of the new (divx 3.11) firmware update?


Just found this in another forum.

It's from the Kiss support:
"The Firmware release wich should support DiVX 3.11 will hopefully be
awailable within 2 month."

[Top_Cat]

awailable within 2 month.

last I heard it was 4 weeks, and that was about 2 weeks ago :(

[fja]

Originally posted by MrDarcy
Just found this in another forum.

It's from the Kiss support:
"The Firmware release wich should support DiVX 3.11 will hopefully be
awailable within 2 month."

Just got one myself - and called KISS hot-line. They are hoping for relase in the summer (which most probably means august 2003)

[Top_Cat]

august 2003 wow that is a long wait!