Converting to VCD header -> Oversized .bin

[pacohaas]

anyone else get the problem that the resulting bin file(created through DVD2SVCD or VCDEasy) is much too big to be burned after converting the header to VCD? (note: this is not specific to this plugin)

for example: I get 825MB, though the actual mpg file is 717MB.
Whereas before converting the header, the bin file is 733MB and the mpg is 723MB

It doesn't have anything to do with cutting, because this movie is only 45 minutes long, so the whole thing is just in this one file. And when converting it back, i get my 733MB bin file again. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

[UltimateDBZ]

D9: Moved

Problem post, my friend ;)

[pacohaas]

Originally posted by UltimateDBZ
D9: Moved

Problem post, my friend ;) i suppose you're right, i just actually moved it out of the deep sticky for the VCDHeader plugin, which is in the advanced forum, so i figured this was an advanced issue. Doesn't matter to me, as long as someone can help figure out what's happening here.

[edoson]

i say that if u try to burn the image on 80min cd u will not fail.

[pacohaas]

i have 74 minute cd's, that's why i chose that filesize, and yes, i tried it, and cdrdao gives me the error that the file is too big to ft.

But if i burn the original image before converting the header, it burns fine.

[markrb]

The reason why these third party plug-ins are in the advanced forum is that they are not really supported by us. We, including DVD2SVCD, do not know enough about it to really help.
They are mostly supported within the plug-in thread itself. Sort of like it's own little forum in a forum.

Mark

[pacohaas]

well, now that this hack is within DVD2SVCD itself, I have to bring this up again. I just did my first conversion with 1.1.3b3 with bbmpeg set to mux as a MPEG1. My muxed video file is 726MB, while the .bin file is 835MB. Doesn't that seem like an aweful lot of padding data?

And if i remux it as a SVCD, the muxed mpg comes out to 724, and the .bin file comes out to 734MB, which is fine. So the problem seems to be somewhere between the bbmpeg stage and the .bin creation. As I said above, even if you create the image in VCDEasy, it ends up with over 100MB of who knows what data in the .bin.

So, there either needs to be different bitrate calculations done if you are encoding an SVCD and muxing as a VCD, or maybe someone can figure out where this 100MB is coming from and how to get rid of it.

btw, i'm doing this because my friend has a dvd player that lets him play SVCDs muxed as VCD's, not just to nag ;)

[pacohaas]

Does the lack of response here mean that nobody's even using the VCD header trick? Please, if someone is successfully using it, let me know.

[Roadsplat]

I am having the same problem. Hoping to find a solution soon.

RC

[marcor]

hi , i have the same problem.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50603

i have increased the forced mux-rate in bbMPEG , till the underflow-errors were gone. but the bin-file is the same as with underflow-errors :too big for the cd.
i hope there is soon a workaround or a solution for the prob , cause i need the vcd-trick for my dvd-player.

[Roadsplat]

Yeah I tried that too. Same thing. I really need this option also, as my DVD player doesn't support SVCD either. :(

[marcor]

hi,when you used the vcd-trick in bbMPEG is, besides the big bin-files, the output-movie in sync? i did avi2svcd with the vcd-trick and the movie was total out of sync :each of them video,audio and subs.has anyone of you the same prob? take care.

[dvd2svcd]

Oh, I forgot to tell you, in the bbMPEG settings when selecting MPEG1 please double click on the radiobutton, that way you'll get the default values for MPEG1 in bbMPEG. I don't know if that'll help, but it's worth a try.

[pacohaas]

Originally posted by dvd2svcd
Oh, I forgot to tell you, in the bbMPEG settings when selecting MPEG1 please double click on the radiobutton, that way you'll get the default values for MPEG1 in bbMPEG. I don't know if that'll help, but it's worth a try. that's what i've been doing :(

[marcor]

i double-clicked mpeg1 and got the mpeg1-values in bbMPEG. the result was ,as said before,out of sync.

[Roadsplat]

Originally posted by dvd2svcd
Oh, I forgot to tell you, in the bbMPEG settings when selecting MPEG1 please double click on the radiobutton, that way you'll get the default values for MPEG1 in bbMPEG. I don't know if that'll help, but it's worth a try.

I did do that. Did not help. :(

RC

[Jeffll]

Hi,
I have the same prob with the audio when using the header trick,I get around the size of the images by changing the cd size to 700 in the bitrate tab,and I thought that may have caused the sync prob,but if others are having the same thing then I guess thats not it.let me know if you get a work around
Thanks

Originally posted by marcor
hi,when you used the vcd-trick in bbMPEG is, besides the big bin-files, the output-movie in sync? i did avi2svcd with the vcd-trick and the movie was total out of sync :each of them video,audio and subs.has anyone of you the same prob? take care.

[pacohaas]

I finally decided to test my DVD player with a header tricked SVCD, so i changed the filesize to 650MB. Now, on my APEX 5131, the audio is waaaay off, and it skips too. it seems like the audio is playing too slow, but the tone doesn't sound wrong, so it has to be these skips or silent spots that are quickly adding up, making the audio far behind the video even after a minute or 2. My buddy's player is supposed to be able to play these, so i'm gonna have him test this disk out when he goes back home in a week....i guess more results will follow.

[markrb]

I am just curious. You own the 5131, which is an awesome SVCD player. Are you making this disc for somebody else? I may have missed that part if you said so.

BTW if you didn't know I did some extensive testing with the 5131 and the following is my results for XSVCD playability.

Max Bitrate 5500, but be safe and set the max to 5000. Sometimes 5500 would fail.

Plays 99 minute CD's of up to 990MB's of overburned video.
Plays 80 minute CD's of up to 828-830Mb's of overburned video.

Plays raw mpg's with AC3 audio, but will not play a SVCD with AC3 audio so you must burn as data so max on a disc is around 700mb's.

Mark

[pacohaas]

thanks for the info, and yes, as i said above, a buddy of mine wants me to test his player for him. I don't remember offhand which player it is, but I remember looking it up at vcdhelp.com and reading the forum comments that it plays SVCD's using the header trick. The thing that is most strange to me is the more than 10% increase in filesize when using this trick.

[shuq]

Hi,

Since most of you have already gone thru this process, can someone describe a step-by-step approach:

Here is my guess:

1) Have already created SVCD using previous version of DVD2SVCD
2) Then download this new 1.1.3 build2 and install.
(this has the VCD header trick)
3) Setup a 'VCDheader' sub-dir and move all of your files from step1
in here.
4) Misc-RECOVER-select "Muxing and Cutting"
5) Misc tab: set DVD2SVCD level to Advanced
6) bbMPEG tab: Advanced Settings - Double click on MPEG-1
7) Misc tab: Hit Continue..
8) and it does not work

Can someone pls edit these steps and share how to take an existing SVCD converted files and how to do this VCD header trick using 1.1.3b2

Thanks,
shuq

[pacohaas]

did you read the readme that comes with the new version? just set things up as you nornally would for a SVCD, but go into the bbmpeg tab and double click on the mpeg1 radiobutton. that's it.

[waf1919]

The header trick now in dvd2svcd ver.1.1.3 build 2 does not work!! Period!! I have tried to several ( "5" ) times with the same problems as you my friend huge bin. files while the muxed mpeg is fine. In addition the audio is out of sync etc etc & yes etc. I have double clicked on the settings in bbmpeg and followed the correct procedure aswell to no avail. I was really dissapointed cause' I still have to do the header trick the old fashioned way with tmpgenc, but you lose all of the chapters and thats a BIG bummer for me. I hope this bug gets worked out. Until then you will have to use Tmpgenc. Will

[tpham]

waf1919 or anyone else..when you mention doing the "header trick the old fashioned way with tmpgenc" do you mean using the plugin that DACOW produced. I am confused because even though DACOW produced a plugin for the Header Trick, he mentioned that if you wanted more information you could go to http://www.geocities.com/evbq64a/vcdtrick.htm. But, here the method is 100% manual whereas from what I understand the way DACOW said to achieve the Header Trick is pretty much automatic...that is configure DVD2SVCD and let it do the rest...I am confused???

One thing though...I do not care whether the process if automatic or manual, if it works thats find with me. So please, if you know a method that works (without making the .bin files too big and there isn't a sync problem between the audio and video) please let me know.

Thanks in advance

[StormBringer]

Hi

I guess this is a bit off target for the current posts in here but the original topic is being unable to burn CD images because they come out too large. I've had this problem a couple of times, and since I don't know anything really about bitrates and stuff I looked at it from another angle.

This is using standard settings to create SVCD with MPG2.

Programs like Nero wouldn't touch the bin files that were about 830 meg and I couldn't find any 900 blanks locally so being desperate I actually read the instructions :) It says there that best results are using Daemon Tools and doing a Cd - CD copy. So I got Daemon, loaded the cue file and used CloneCD to take a copy with overburn and it worked fine.

The oversized bin was at the end of CD1 of a two-CD film and I'm not sure if it missed a few seconds of movie off but it played perfectly well and if it had been at the end of a movie it would at worst have chopped a bit of the credits off.

I know this isn't a complicated technical solution and it won't work for people with older CD writers but if you're desperate and can't fix it any other way it may be a bit helpful to some of you.

Thanks to everyone who works on DVD2SVCD. It's been a revelation to me in how it simplifies the whole process and I'm happy if I can contribute occasional suggestions that help anyone in return.

[pacohaas]

it appears as if nero is able to burn the mpeg files just fine, though i have not tested this...anyone?



The problem seems to be in the image creation as I have said before. If you run VCDImager or VCDXBuild, you might see that it adds lots of padding, so perhaps not creating the image and just burning the mpeg with nero is the solution for the size problem, but there is still the audio problem to solve.

edit: sorry, i wasn't as detailed as I could have been, i meant to burn a vcd in nero by adding the mpg file to the VCD template. It seems that Nero doesn't do as VCDXBuild and VCDImager do and add padding for the non-standard VCD.

[StormBringer]

I was under the impression most stand-alone DVD players would not play straight MPG files?

[shuq]

pacohaas,

I have read the readme file and since it was not clear hense my question.

1) At which stage of the process do I re-start once I have changed the bbMPEG settings.
2) Do I do this thru RECOVER
3) Are the steps I mentioned above correct..
4) Anyone willing to share more than what is in the readme file ?

Thanks,
shuq
.ps still does not work..

[pacohaas]

Originally posted by pacohaas
just set things up as you nornally would for a SVCD, but go into the bbmpeg tab and double click on the mpeg1 radiobutton. that's it. no need to recover it, the recovery step in old versions was just so you could choose the MPEG1 option in the bbmpeg tab. Now there is no need for that, just set everything up as you would for a normal SVCD conversion, then make the change in the bbmpeg tab by double clicking the mpeg1 radio button.

[shuq]

So that means once I set the new options for bbMPEG Advanced Tab, Re-run DVD2SVCD from the "start"..all thru new TMPGEnc encoding etc etc..

Somehow I thought this VCDheader trick could be done on the "muxing, cutting, authoring" stages only..keeping the encoding(time consuming) stage alone.

Wow this could take a looooong time..

shuq

[waf1919]

Shuq : Here is what you do take your muxed bbmpeg files in your movie folder and under File in Tmpgenc it will drop down click on mpeg tools. You will see Simple Multiplex. Now browse for your bbmpeg muxed file ad it. Make your yourself a output folder say ( example ) disc 1 Band Of Brothers for muxed 00 ..disc 2 Band of Brothers for 01 on whatever harddrive you have enough room on etc etc. depending how many muxed files you have which is how many cdr's you have selected it to take. At the top you will see "Type" click on the drop down tab select MPEG 1. Then it will say for example D:\disc 1 Band Of Brothers.mpg for your output folder. Now hit run it may take 5 to 10 minutes maybe less depending on the speed of your pc. Do the same for teh second muxed file so forth and so on. Now find D:\disc 1 Band Of Brothers.mpg Burn it as a VCD with Nero select non compliant. Burn you are done. However you will not have the chapters, but it will play fine and audio will be in snyc. Another thing to do is make sure and downsample your audio to 44.1. Many dvd players using the header trick will not play the audio in sync unless it is downsampled i.e. the newer Sony's for example. What I have found is after doing the header trick it will play in many standalone dvd players. Sony ,Pioneer and Panasonic are the ones my friends have and they all play great. Will P.S. If you are planning on making a Mpeg header trick on all your svcd creations than under CD image click on don't make images.

[waf1919]

http://www.geocities.com/evbq64a/vcdtrick.htm Click on this for more help if you like.

[Abond]

I have several remarks. One should choose in TMPG MPEG Tools as a type of muxing not MPEG 1, but "non standart VCD", otherwise Nero will pad the file even if you select non compliant. If you want the chapters back make your image file with VCDEasy adding the chapters entries, then burn the image with Nero. IMO muxing as VCD VBR in bbMPEG will lead to padding - tested with VCDEasy (VCDImager). I don't know the reason for this, but when mux in TMPG one can see the mesage "Rewritting Header", there isn't such with bbMPEG...

[waf1919]

Abond: Are you saying that Nero is adding padding that will make the Muxed file bigger? I'd have to say I have followed this procedure hundreds of times & the muxed bbmeg is always the same size after dropping it into nero as non compliant. So I'd have to disagree with you on this. This procedure is a tried and tested procedure which is on dvdrhelp and which has also been mentioned on this site several times. I usually don't post much, but I have been reading this site since 2001 & usually I can find what I am looking for w/o asking a question. And I originally found the link for the header trick in the doom Forum sometime back & it has never failed or made the muxed files bigger. As for Mpeg Tools you will see I mentioned that you must click on File then Mpeg Tools then select Simple Multiplex which is the first and default tab in tools. In Type you select MPEG 1 video cd..(""TMPG MPEG Tools as a type of muxing not MPEG 1""),This frankly makes no sense or you don't have it worded corectly I realize that many people's first language is non english on the forum and their from all over the world. But the procure I have mentioned works very well with no increase in teh file size. http://www.geocities.com/evbq64a/vcdtrick.htm

[shuq]

Waf1919,

Many thanks for your detailed description of the steps.
Worked like a charm. Now my JVC-XV421(which does not support SVCD) can play the 'VCD Header tricked SVCD' without any issues.

I added the chapters using VCDEasy. Also used VCDEasy to create the bin/cue files then Nero to burn.

My Nero was having a difficult time burning the 'VCD Header Tricked mpg' files directly so the above step with VCDEasy helped.

Thanks,
shuq

:)

[tpham]

OK here is the verdict....

If you follow DACOWs method for the VCD header trick it should work...it worked fine for me. The .bin file that I got wasn't oversized at all...it was about the same size as that produced by D2S. This VCD header trick works really well on my standlone that was able to read SVCD however, the only reason I've tried doing this is so that it will work on my Toshiba which at the moment doesn't play SVCD. Guess what...my Toshiba DVD doesn't like the VCD header trick either...

[pacohaas]

for those getting audio sync problems, are you downsampling the audio to 44.1KHz or leaving it at 48KHz, for me it doesn't make a difference either way.

[Holomatrix]

Originally posted by tpham
OK here is the verdict....

If you follow DACOWs method for the VCD header trick it should work...it worked fine for me. The .bin file that I got wasn't oversized at all...it was about the same size as that produced by D2S. This VCD header trick works really well on my standlone that was able to read SVCD however, the only reason I've tried doing this is so that it will work on my Toshiba which at the moment doesn't play SVCD. Guess what...my Toshiba DVD doesn't like the VCD header trick either...

When I do SVCD with VCD header, I get the proper muxed .bin size but you need to (in the bbmpeg settings) double click VCD and make sure Forced mux rate is 0, Pack options: Size = 2324 and Startup delays (ms) Pack:= 400.
Let me know if that works

[marcor]

When I do SVCD with VCD header, I get the proper muxed .bin size but you need to (in the bbmpeg settings) double click VCD and make sure Forced mux rate is 0, Pack options: Size = 2324 and Startup delays (ms) Pack:= 400.

when i did this conversion with the vcd-header (not the vcd-trick from dvd2svcd) and these settings in bbMPEG, i get the following error (recover in not possible, always the same error)

bbMPEG failed. Exitcode: 3221225477

[pvk]

Originally posted by pacohaas
did you read the readme that comes with the new version? just set things up as you nornally would for a SVCD, but go into the bbmpeg tab and double click on the mpeg1 radiobutton. that's it.

I would like to do the trick; but I can't find the mpeg1 radiobutton??

Should I do a reinstall??

[Holomatrix]

Make sure in the MISC tab you have set DVD2SVCD level to advanced then you will see the Advanced settings for bbMpeg in the bbMpeg tab click in the bbMpeg drop down box.

[pvk]

Thank's Holomatrix :)
I got my radiobutton - now working on the first conversion.

[waf1919]

tpham: I can say that if a standalone dvd player was originally designed to play svcd's then it will play svcd's with a header trick. For example many dvd players are shipped to the US can't recognize svcd's, but that same model in asia will play svcd's just fine. My Sony dvd player is a good example of this the guts inside can play a svcd but it must be tricked to do so cause' it has it set in its firmware not to. Unfortunately many US dvd players are like this.. my friends Pioneer DV37 is the same way, but again with the trick it plays svcd's flawlessly. Most Toshiba's I have found will not play svcd at all even with the trick. Most Toshiba models I know of can play vcd's but not svcd's. If you give me your model number I can reference the Asian version model for you to make sure of this. You mention DACOWs guide maybe I am missing something do you mean in the readme file? Like I have said b4 I have followed the procedure in the bbmpeg settings to no avail, so I don't think there is something right in these settings. pacohaas not downsampling will be a probelm if you ever play your svcd header tricked discs in certain dvd players you will find that those you have made will play their audio out of sync. Holomatrix I want to try your suggestions here on the bbmpeg settings. You may be on to something let me get back to you on this. Thanks Will

[pvk]

I tried the build in VCD header trick. The end result was a huge *.bin file, about 100.000 kb larger than the svcd *.bin file. The film was in sync, but very jumpy, flickering horisontally.
Then I tried Dacow's plugin, ver. 0.4. The end result was a *.bin file af the same size, in sync but flickering horisontally again. I only tested the cd's in my own dvd player, which can play svcd's. Then I tested the cd in my computer with Intervideo's Windvd Platinum, and the film played flawlessly - no jumping.

So the conclusion is: Test the cd's in the machine they are intended for, if it works - make some more - if not, don't waste more time.

[tpham]

@waf1919

Please find the plugin at the following thread ( http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42406 ). I followed this exactly and it worked fine. At the thread it mentioned with the latest version of DVD2SVCD you no longer need the plugin. I followed the procedure to do this trick with D2S, it produced .bin files that were greatly oversized. Even though the plugin produced the correct result I gave up because it didn't play on the Toshiba DVD player that I did it for. The audio came out perfectly but there wasn't any video at all. My Toshiba mode is SDK350 - http://www.castel.com.au/products/toshiba/sdk350.htm

I am in Australia by the way...If I could find a way to trick this player to play SVCD with the header as VCD it would be great

[dvd2svcd]

Well, I thought that bbMPEG would act like TMPGEnc when multiplexing MPEG2 stream as MPEG1, but it doesn't :( So I'm going to remove this possibility again. However, I just for fun tried using VCDXbuilder on a MPEG2 file with a VCD setup. When I'm playing the Image in WinDVD it says VCD, however I cannot verify that this will work on the standalone dvd's like Panasonic. Is there any of you that could try this and see if it would work?