Windows Media Video (WMV9) VCM in beta

[amirm]

As I promised a while back, we are now in beta with the VCM interface for WMV 9. Yes, I know it was supposed to be out last month but you know how it is with software :). This code should let you put WMV 9 streams into AVIs or any other container you like.

Be sure to read the notes at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/codecs/vcm.aspx .

The beta version has limited compatibility but the final version should be far more compatible. For now, VirtualDub and Adobe Premiere are the apps that we know work. You can of course use it in other applications and see what happens.

I will check from time on this thread and give the feedback to the team.

Happy encoding!

Thanks,
Amir
Microsoft

[hurts70]

glad to hear that...
thx for your work...:D

[ChristianHJW]

Hmmm .... i'm glad i didnt make a bet on that, seems i would have lost that bottle of Scotch to you amirm ;) ....

[bond]

great news!!!

although shouldnt there show up a "wmv9" option under virtualdub -> compression?

[Ramirez]

Yes its there,look for the "MS Windows Media Video 9" name string, kinda buggy though, any attempt to configure this codec in "2 Pass VBR Mode" results in infinite loop of error messages.(at least for me)

[bond]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Yes its there,look for the "MS Windows Media Video 9" name stringnope, there is no such thing in my case!?

hm, i am using winme, hopefully it doesnt only work in winxp (like wmencoder9) :mad:

[Ramirez]

Dunno what might be wrong,I'm using WIN2k have a look at this screenshot. (http://www.redzone.co.il/vad/wmv9/comp.JPG)

[bond]

Thanks for that Ramirez, i believed you of course

perhaps someone with a non win2k or winxp system can give this a try and share his experiences if it works or not...

[ChristianHJW]

Showing up nicely here on my Virtualdub ... Win2K rulezz, as always ;) ...

First results using 300 kbps ( as per recommended settings ) on a low filtered 640 x 288 movie look nice i have to admit :D !!

[trbarry]

Nope. Doesn't show up in VirtualdubMod with Win/Me.

Drat!

- Tom

[deXtoRious]

Holy shit! I was beginning to think that this is never going to happen. Great work! :D

[S_O]

For me it works great (win2k sp3)!

It is possible to mux the video from avi into asf toghether with wma audio to create a compatible wmv-file? Is there any asf-muxer that doesn´t require re-encoding? I tried the "Windows Media Multiplexer"-Filter in GraphEdit, but it won´t connect to the AVI Splitter without inserting a decoder filter.
The other way round works fine with AsfTools, I can remux an wmv/asf to avi and play it perfectly (works only with wmv7 (using ffdshow) and wmv9, because the wmv-decoder doesn´t connect to avi-splitter), but not the other way round.

[amirm]

Originally posted by trbarry
Nope. Doesn't show up in VirtualdubMod with Win/Me.
- Tom

Tom, this beta drop is XP only (although as you have found out, it may also work on Win2K). The final version though, will support all the OS platforms that Media Player 9 supports (Win98 SE, Me, Win2K and XP).

Thanks,
Amir

[stax76]

@amirm

DivX and XviD save their settings at HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software.
Some tools make usage of that. Would be great if Windows Media
Video 9 VCM would do this too


Tom, this beta drop is XP only


but it don't support XP style yet :)

[Baalthazaar]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Yes its there,look for the "MS Windows Media Video 9" name string, kinda buggy though, any attempt to configure this codec in "2 Pass VBR Mode" results in infinite loop of error messages.(at least for me)

I get no errors when using 2-pass VBR, though v-dub refuses to terminate on the last frame and I have to click 'abort'. Haven't played with it much yet, though, so I'd expect to find some bugs sooner or later. :) Nice to have it released finally, though.

[Ramirez]

Yeah,glad to hear that you're OK, me on the other hand still stuck with that 2-pass prob, nevermind I'll try to mess with that codec later on my second machine(WINXP)currently encoding my 1000000th SBC Rip, nothing even close to these amazingly good quality SBC rips I've seen on the net,how the hell these guys are doing it!!! :D

[Dark-Cracker]

hi,

damn doesn't work (yet :) ) under win9X u could have acces to the parameters panel (add in the system.ini the vid.wmv3 and do the same in HKLM,SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaResources\icm\

but once u start an encode it crash :) i hope beta2 will come soon with a full Win9X support.

Bye.

[ChristianHJW]

Hmmm ... can anybody tell me why my encode looks marvellous in the Vdub preview window, but very blurry and cloudy when played in WMP7 ( same window size ) ? Am i forced to get a newer version of WMP, like 8 or 9, to get a decent DShow filter for playback ?

[bond]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
... to get a decent DShow filter for playback ? I dont know if there exists a DShow filter?

[HaSh]

niice...seems like Microsoft came through as promised. Ill give this a shot...thx for keepin us updated Amir. I cant wait until final. WMV9 + vdub editing capabilities = great rips! :)

[CruNcher]

@ Amirm
hehe was in no doubt that Microsoft would release it especialy after the release of the SDK, for a beta its ok so far exicted what will come in the next days mabye direct avi support in the WindowsMediaEncoder and Moviemaker2 ?

PS: The Cli thing on the bottom isn't that Patented by Divx Networks ;) *little insider joke*

[slavickas]

it's seems still impossible to use in ogm :(

[zulu]

Originally posted by ChristianHJW
Hmmm ... can anybody tell me why my encode looks marvellous in the Vdub preview window, but very blurry and cloudy when played in WMP7 ( same window size ) ? Am i forced to get a newer version of WMP, like 8 or 9, to get a decent DShow filter for playback ?
Yes! This is exactly what i thought when i tried it yesterday..
BTW.: I tried to mux the encoded wm video into an ogm container but was not able to play it back (unknown error in mediaplayer). Does anybody know if wmv in ogm is working?

[S_O]

My tests:
WMV v7 (with WMA Audio v7/v8/v9) in OGM is working perfect (also without ffdshow, the wmv9-vcm seem to have unlocked/replaced the Video-DirectShow-Filters). The MS-decoder can also playback WMV v7 encoded with ffvfw perfectly.
WMV v8 (with WMA Audio v7/v8/v9) in OGM is not working correctly:
sound is fine, no error messages, but picture is only artifacts, same for avi.
WMV v9 (with WMA Audio v7/v8/v9) in OGM doesn´t work. Error message: A unknown error occured (Ein unbekannter Fehler ist aufgetreten).
In VirtualDubMod the ogm is also not openable (page error). Muxing in VirtualDubMod, I get the same error in WMP, the file is also not openable again in VirtualDubMod. So it´s defintly not a problem with the OGM-DirectShow-Filters.

Test with matroska: Works fine in VirtualDubMod-Matroska (Matroska 0.1.0).

The WMV v9-avi is not playable on systems without the wmv9-vcm installed. Also automatic codec download doesn´t work. After remuxing the video from avi to asf (using vidtoasf) it can also be played there perfectly, but file is much larger (about 150% from the original avi)

[Baalthazaar]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Yeah,glad to hear that you're OK, me on the other hand still stuck with that 2-pass prob, nevermind I'll try to mess with that codec later on my second machine(WINXP)currently encoding my 1000000th SBC Rip, nothing even close to these amazingly good quality SBC rips I've seen on the net,how the hell these guys are doing it!!! :D

I wasn't insinuating that you were doing anything wrong, just confirming that it's not broken for everyone (so as not to scare away any testers). Filesize on 2-pass VBR is somewhat erratic for me in the few tests I've done and quality isn't quite up there with XviD....still fun to play around with though.

I will say that this codec seems to surpass XviD and RV9 at very high bitrates when you want maximum quality.

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by S_O Test with matroska: Works fine in VirtualDubMod-Matroska (Matroska 0.1.0).

:eek: :eek: :eek: !!!!

I have thought of many things, but not to test this at all. Seems like Cyrius had made an excellent job with matroskadub !!!

[deXtoRious]

Has anybody tried it with interlaced movies? I tried the deinterlace function and, well, the result was extremely blocky to say the least :mad:

Also one more thing: I tried constant bitrate CBR 800kbps and for some reason the codec used ~1.2mbps! I was using FlaskMPEG if it matters.

[ookzDVD]

@amirm,

Thank you for your VCM build,
I finally can use WMV9 in the .AVI, I'm also happy with the result,
even it's still slow about 8fps compare with DIVX 20 fps, and XVID 18fps.

I will follow the progress, I bet it will be better in the next release :)

[Sgt_Strider]

Is there a good way to calculate the bitrate that I should use for 2 pass encoding? I don't think there is some sort of WM9 calculator that exists that will actually help with the encoding of WM9 content.

[HaSh]

Do you think there will be faster encoding in the final build? All I have is a 850 MHz duron. I get only 3 fps!

[phrentec]

Will the team also be working on a VCM interface for for the Windows Media 9 screen (or screen capture codec) codec (which is the WMV codec that is in par similar to the techsmith (TSCC) screen capture codec)?

[Sirber]

I'm doing 2-3 FPS with this codec. I get the same speed with H264. lol

[sjchmura]

You need to read the documentation (albeit hard to combe by)

Move the QUALITY slider 1 notch from the left.

You will encode 5-7x faster and I dare you to see a difference in quality at high bit rates for HDTV etc.

720p HDTV frame by frame I simply cannot tell the difference between MAX quality and 1 notch from the left. Many people in avsforums.com have experiemented also, taken screen grabs etc, and we can't see a difference.

This is MUCH faster then DIVX for HDTV and MUCH better quality then the crap 5.04b.

FOr DVD size stuff I am less impressed at low bit rates. I think DIvx and even XVID (shudder) look good. But for HDTV size images and files getting 1:5 compression (8GB/HR to 2GB/HR looks amazing. Again, I dare poeple to tell if Alias HDTV was WM9 or the original broadcast after encoding with 1 pass VBR Q94/AC3.

[Si]

Isn't it ironic that MS now use VirtualDub for testing WMV in avi's when originally they warned Avery off for its ability to read asf's (its precursor)

2 legs good - 4 legs bad ;)

regards
Simon

[deXtoRious]

I don't get it :mad: I keep getting EXTREMELY blurry and blocky movies using 800kbps (even non-interlaced). What am I doing wrong???

[sjchmura]

What are you using for your Audio???? I have been using 2 pass VBR 1000kbit total with 192 5.1 for DVD's at 720x480 - frame by frame looks great.

HDTV definitly needs 2.5-4mbit

[zulu]

Originally posted by deXtoRious
I don't get it :mad: I keep getting EXTREMELY blurry and blocky movies using 800kbps (even non-interlaced). What am I doing wrong???

i've got the same problem.
i've done a clip (pal progressive,576x304) @ 900 kbps/2pass which looks very, very blurry.
(i even installed wm9 and disabled "video smoothing" to be on the save side..)
wm9 vcm codec also seems to have a problem with yv12 input.
i noticed color stepping in several scenes.

[deXtoRious]

So that's it! I was using YV12 all the time! Will try LOTR 1000kbps VBR 2 pass tonight... better use YUV2 this time.

[dattrax]

I must say that I've just encoded some stuff (10mins worth) with this and it does seem very good. Only Odd think I found was the number of key frames it seemed to be inserting.

Jim

[Ramirez]

Sjchmura,would you mind to drop down that "guru" tone of yours? If you wanna help people around here then fine, just make sure you're doing it nicely.

Btw: oh yeah and in case you haven't notice the way this web board titled.

Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

[TheXung]

Originally posted by siwalters
Isn't it ironic that MS now use VirtualDub for testing WMV in avi's when originally they warned Avery off for its ability to read asf's (its precursor)

2 legs good - 4 legs bad ;)


I don't think microsoft needs virtual dub for testing or for anything at all. Realize that getting WM9 to work in virtual dub is a service to us. That's really the only way that most of us would be willing to use the codec. Be grateful that they've done this and don't think you can twist it around and rub it in their noses. Their stance is obviously that they'd rather have avi support rather than outside tools support WMV.

[Sirber]

Is there any spyware in this codec? We don't know... maybe it checks for valid windows licences. :eek:

[deXtoRious]

Just use tools like Regmon and Filemon, also a traffic monitor to be sure...

I tried with YUV2 and the result was the same (horrible) :( Could one of those lucky people who get great results post their settings here?

[zulu]

Originally posted by deXtoRious
I tried with YUV2 and the result was the same (horrible) :(
same result here...

[temporance]

Originally posted by TheXung
Their stance is obviously that they'd rather have avi support rather than outside tools support WMV. I'd say, their stance is that WM9 is loosing out to DivX and xvid in our scene and their VCM hack is trying to change this.

[dattrax]

good results settings.

Used latest version of avisynth with latest official virtualdub

script was as follows

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\dvd2avi186\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
video=MPEG2source("identity.d2v", cpu=0, ipp=true)
audio=WAVSource("identity AC3 T01 3_2ch 384Kbps 48KHz.wav")
audiodub(video, audio)
ConvertToYUY2()


That was it

codec was configured 2 pass VBR, 780000bps performance set at maximum. The rest of the settings I didn't touch

Jim

[Sgt_Strider]

Why don't someone try to make a WM9 calculator to help calculate the birate needed for 2 pass encodings?

[deXtoRious]

Why don't someone try to make a WM9 calculator to help calculate the birate needed for 2 pass encodings?

If you'd write the equation here, I could write a program...;)

2 dattrax

Will post the results tommorow.

[deXtoRious]

Results with AviSynth 2.0 - playing with wmp9, video shows black screen only, sound is OK. I don't get it... Will try again with AviSynth 2.5.

[Snollygoster]

Guys, I downloaded a WMV9 VCM which I do not think is beta (it doesn't mention that anywhere) and I am encoding in VdubMod with modified AviSynth v2.51 (YV12) 2 Pass VBR and I am on first pass right now getting 16fps compared with 18fps with DivX 5.03.

I will check on the quality and let you know.

My source is FRIENDS PAL DVD 4:3 interlaced.