RealVideo 9 vs XviD

[Sirber]

With both codecs, aimed to produce a 20MB file with the original ending of "Army of Darkness".

Here's the settings for both codecs.

I used AutoRV9 1.2 and AutoDub 1.7.5
Audio: 96kbps Cook and 96kbps Vorbis
Video: ~500kbps
RV9: all by default
XviD: VHQ-1, MPEG Quants, QPel, the rest by default, Lastest Nic's build
Filters:
Inverse Telecine: DeComb
Resize: Neutral Bicubic, at 640x

Results:
RealVideo 9:

Sound is OK as usual. For the video, because the film was noisy, things are a little blured when it's dark, but nice in plain light. Borders are a little moving when the camera move.

Overal visual quality is 9/10.
Overal sound quality is 10/10.

Encoding speed:
1) ~8 FPS
2) ~10 FPS

XviD:
Holy God! With no post-processing, the clip is really blocky and blocs on faces moves wiedly. There is the same thing around objects. For the sound, Vorbis miss the high-freq... things, and is not as rich as RealAudio.

Overal visual quality is 5/10.
Overal sound quality is 7/10.

Encoding speed:
1) ~8 FPS
2) ~9 FPS

****
Conclusion:
Real's codecs are very powerfull and nice to my eyes. I don't know what went wrong with XviD, I have some great rip.

***********************
I'll upload both clips (20 MB each) on a server this weekend, so you'll be able to judge by yourself. I'll post the link maybe Sunday.

[gabest]

As far as I know rm usually perfoms better at lower bitrates like 500kbps, divx/xvid needs 900-1000 or more for a dvdrip. This is only my opinion of course.

[Manao]

Instead of mpeg quant, use H263, use b-frames ( 3,150,150,0 with the last Koepi's build ) and chroma motion, use qpel and lumi masking if you want ( I don't use qpel since in normal movie there is still issues with faces, but the overall quality gain is impressive, for luma masking I made some test and I'm still undecided ). You can use also some postprocessing if the output is blocky

I think the comparison will be a lot fairer to XviD.

@gabest : it depends of the movie, but I would say XviD is now efficient @ 600 kbps. I made a lot of tests with 'Bandits' ( some still scenes, some action scenes,118 minutes, aimed size : 550000K, ie a bitrate of 620 kbps ) and the results were great, without postprocessing. Of course, I use some prefiltering ( deblocking : 4, fluxsmooth (3,3), bilinearresize(640,272), convolution3d(preset="moviehq"),temporalsoften(3,3,3,10,2) and DCTFilter(1,1,1,1,1,1,0.5,0)). ( To evaluate the influence of these avisynth settings, with same XviD's settings, a script with only a lanczosresize(640,272) will produce a first pass 60% larger than the first pass done with my script )

[iwod]

Originally posted by gabest
As far as I know rm usually perfoms better at lower bitrates like 500kbps, divx/xvid needs 900-1000 or more for a dvdrip. This is only my opinion of course.

I totally agree........ i will tend to say anything higher than 600 xvid will begin to shine....

And i will always suggest to use post filter for xvid clips......

I am doing a testing on Xvid and RV9 as well.... post my results later...

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Manao
, use H263, use b-frames ( 3,150,150,0 with the last Koepi's build ) and chroma motion

I used bframes, and I don't like H263 because it produce squared results. I made the matrix long ago with MPEG quant and H263, and the MPEG one was better.

For postprocessing, I only use it if the movie is badly encoded. My goal before (When I was using XviD) was to produce an encode that was viewable whitout post-processing. So, for this test, it was plain RealVideo and plain XviD MPEG4.

[deXtoRious]

gonna try a similar test today...

[Manao]

So, for this test, it was plain RealVideo and plain XviD MPEG4.
But you can't have plain rv9, since it's postprocessed. Moreover, not wanting to use deblocking if the output is blocky is kind of contradictory. When I encode to XviD, I also aim for a non blocky result ( lowering res / raising preprocessing / switching to 2 cds if needed ), but if for a reason or another I have to have a blocky result, then I use postprocessing.

For MPEG against H263, it's been a long time since I tryed MPEG quant, so I will make a test to compare.

[Dark-Cracker]

Hi,

@Manao
humm "Bandits" is a very compressible movie (compcheck around 60% for a bitrate at 600 kbps is very good). but with all theses filters (fluxsmooth + convolution + tempsoften + dtc ) i think your encode take much time for a result very smooth .

i someone would made some tests at a very low bitrate it should use the Xvid custom matrix (try the trbarry's matrix : cutoff) without VHQ and with GMC+Qperl+Bframe.

++

[Manao]

Never used compcheck, but if I understand well, it's the ratio second-pass size / first-pass size . The first pass size ( filtered ) was 1050000K, and I aimed for 550000K ( compcheck : 53% ). The first-pass size ( unfiltered, with lanczos resize instead of bilinear ) was 1600000K, so the compcheck would have been 35% without filtering. I think with bilinear only, it would have been 1300000K ( 43% ).

I know I use a lot of filtering, and that some of it may have been useless ( temporalsoften especially in this case ). But I wanted mainly to test XviD settings, not filtering, and in a compcheck range ( 50-75 % ) I use when I want to make a DVDrip . So I filtered enough to get a first pass size around 1Gb.

Edited to make it understandable...

[wing1]

IMO xvid and RV9 are running neck to neck regarding quality wise: Rv9 has the filesize advantage, while xvid has the VFW interface advantage. I encode all my clip with the intention of not using any post processing at all, and I do not have any Mblocks with xvid encoding ( recent builds by either uManiac or Koepi ). Rv9 filesize is usually 1/2-3/5 of xvid filesize. I usually aim for 700Mb/74min for all my encoding needs.

[Sirber]

I did a 2h50 movie on 700 Mo with RV9, with a respectable quality. But, for a specific filesize, RealVideo's quality is better. I can't upload my two files this weekend, I'll post them twosday (?) (Mardi en français).

About FVW, what's the goal to use VFW if it's simpler whitout?

[TheXung]

Don't use mpeg quants and b-frames together. While there technically isn't a problem with it, they don't work well in terms of filesize. Remember you said you tested h263 long ago.

And for heaven sakes, turn on chroma motion.

We also don't know if RM does preprocessing or postprocessing or in loop filtering. Seems to me that army of darkness is a rather noisy source.

[iwod]

I don't know should i post it here or in the RV9 information thread. But..

on the topic.
RV9 doesn't scale as well in high bitrate. And in post 700 Kbps xvid outperform RV9 in 2 of my anime encode.
But that is less important.... as that has been the case for a long time. RV9 truely shines when in low bitrate....

However i am concern AND interested in Windows Media Video 9. As now there is a beta which allow them to go inside AVI.

While divx has a new tools to get better encoding with divx files, xvid surely still has tons of improvement to be made. And WMV9 is coming agreesivly as well. I am afraid that Real need to act fast and response to them.............

Edit.... forgot Nerodigital is coming as well...... :D

Edit:

Just found out. Over at Helix community. Helix Producer 9.1 has gone Gold! And there is a new release on Helix DNA client!! So it does seems real are doing something. But i can't find what is new in the release though. May be i need to download it tomorrow on my laptop to check it OUT!!!

[Sirber]

I tryed WMV9. At the same bitrate, RV9 is still better. WMV9 is a living pixel squared party, while RV9 is smooth.

[ookzDVD]

@Sirber,

Thank for your test, I know you are the RV9 fan :)
I believe that the RV9 is better than XviD, at least your test proof it. :)

But I personally prefer to use XviD, don't know why, maybe I'm too stupid or something, but I'm falling in love with XviD :)

You know... when love is the matter I even don't use my brain!

PS : I never rip below than 800kbps, I think you know why :)

[Sirber]

@ookzDVD

You should try it some day. I was a XviD fan before, but I opened my eyes ;) MPEG4 is better than RV9 for high bitrate, like 1200kbps+, but my goal is to produce a long movie on one CD. The only I made on two CD is LOTR: Special Edition. 3h45 is a little too much for a CD :). I made the first CD in XviD, because I tought to make it in XviD first. There was motion effect and some square. It was the motion effect that made me change. In RV9, no motion effect, no square (Shure it's postprocessed, but we don't loose details because of it). I found AutoRV9 which is very easy to use. You load the DVD2AVI project, configure autio and video, and start!

The audio codec is so good! Better than MP3 or vorbis at 64kbps. It support surround (I didn't test it, my speaker kit is stéréo).

I'll stop here, I think I can write pages and pages about the quality... :D

@all

My links will be avalible tomorrow.

[deXtoRious]

Damn! I just can't get AutoRV9 to work! Audio gets demuxed, when video encoding starts, it just exits the same moment. No errors in log file. Can somebody help me?

[Morbo]

re-install AVIsynth 2.07 or 8...

Never was happy here with 2.5 ....

Cheers!!

[ookzDVD]

@Sirber,

Thank you for your advise, I finally try the RV9, and I really
impressed about the result.

Btw, do have any good documentation to start with, I really want
to add the subtitle (.SRT), or is that possible to add Chapters,
etc. Thank you.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by ookzDVD

Thank you for your advise, I finally try the RV9, and I really
impressed about the result.

Btw, do have any good documentation to start with, I really want
to add the subtitle (.SRT) or is that possible to add Chapters,
etc. Thank you. As far as subtitles, you can not use plain .srt. You must either burn them into the video or make RealText subs (.rt). I've done my best to link the various "how do I make .rt subs" threads to each other, but the info in them is cryptic at best and incomplete at worst. To remedy that i'm going to write a coherent HOWTO for .rt subs (basic, transparent, and bordering). Unfortunatly, i've started the spring quarter at my university. I won't have much spare time except on the weekends.

Chapters are not possible unless you treat each chapter as a sperate file and link them togther with a .smil file. So it's not useful unless you are going to stream the end product.

[iwod]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
As far as subtitles, you can not use plain .srt. You must either burn them into the video or make RealText subs (.rt). I've done my best to link the various "how do I make .rt subs" threads to each other, but the info in them is cryptic at best and incomplete at worst. To remedy that i'm going to write a coherent HOWTO for .rt subs (basic, transparent, and bordering). Unfortunatly, i've started the spring quarter at my university. I won't have much spare time except on the weekends.

Chapters are not possible unless you treat each chapter as a sperate file and link them togther with a .smil file. So it's not useful unless you are going to stream the end product.


Yes... that is the problem with current RV9...

It is intended as a Streaming format... therefor many features that a archieve format would need is still missing..

Chapters, muti subtitle, muti audio track,
and of coz muxing it with other audio format or storing it other contianer.

But at least the HelixDNA move was a good place to start all this...

I know by using SMIL some of the function can be done.... but does DVD need something like SMIL?? has the format itself already included the features....??

[Sirber]

Originally posted by iwod
but does DVD need something like SMIL?? has the format itself already included the features....??

In DVD, all stuff is unclided in vobs. OGM can contain all the stuff too. AVI is more limited. RM is kinda limited like AVI, that's why SMIL exist.

[iwod]

so what you mean is that if RV9 can be put into other contianer format.... all these function will be avalible....

Assuming the contaniner support all this functions.??

[Sirber]

RV9 is only in RM now. You should ask Karl, he knows better than me :)

@all

Links are not avalible today... I had no time to upload it on my server at work. I'll try in two days..

[Morbo]

My damn Asus was defualting to 2 cas lat in BIOS!!!!!

My 3d aps started locking as well.....

Grrrr @ Asus (sorry Karl,,make note of it though....asus boards are funky defualts w/PC2700)...

Oh well....

Cheers @ the REAL team..... :D

[deXtoRious]

I tried to install the old version of AviSynth, but the result was even worse. Resolution of the video was reported ABSOLUTELY incorrectly and the encoding didn't work (like before). What am I doing wrong?

[Ramirez]

Dextorious,which ver of Avisynth you're using exactly 2.0, 2.5?

[ookzDVD]

@Sirber,

I think it's time to ask the fans of RV9 about the experiences and tips or even tricks. :)

What is your main res. for ripping, 640x, bigger? or smaller?
What is min. bitrate should not be used? 300? 400? 500?

PS. I usually use DivX3/DivX5.02 with GKnot for the comp. check.
to get the best ripping resolution.

Thank you.

[iwod]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
@Sirber,

I think it's time to ask the fans of RV9 about the experiences and tips or even tricks. :)

What is your main res. for ripping, 640x, bigger? or smaller?
What is min. bitrate should not be used? 300? 400? 500?

PS. I usually use DivX3/DivX5.02 with GKnot for the comp. check.
to get the best ripping resolution.

Thank you.

Main res = orginal res of clip........ ( i only rip anime DVD/VCD )
Lowest .. or the min. bitrate i use is 350. ( Any thing lower than that i consider to be unwatchable.. )

[deXtoRious]

Dextorious,which ver of Avisynth you're using exactly 2.0, 2.5?

I was using AviSynth 2.5, now I reinstalled 2.0 in hopes that it might help to solve my RV9 problems... It didn't :(

[Sirber]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
@Sirber,

I think it's time to ask the fans of RV9 about the experiences and tips or even tricks. :)

What is your main res. for ripping, 640x, bigger? or smaller?
What is min. bitrate should not be used? 300? 400? 500?

PS. I usually use DivX3/DivX5.02 with GKnot for the comp. check.
to get the best ripping resolution.

Thank you.

Depend what you're ripping:

With AutoRV9 1.2:
For a DVD (movie) (1 CD)
< 2h, 720x, witn one 96kbps or two 64kbps sound track
> 2h, 640x, with one 64kbps or two 64kbps sound track

For a DVD (anime) (Like Ghost in the shell) (1 CD)
720x, 96kbps audio

For a DVD (anime) (Like series)
never tryed

With Helix Producer:
For animes, if source is 640x or less (ex: Vampire Princess Miyu)
24FPS, 350kbps VBR (Max 2000kbps) including a 32kbps soundtrack
Output: ~65 MB

For animes, if source is 320x (ex: Futurama)
15FPS (Produce 12.5 FPS), 250kbps VBR (Max 2000kbps) including a 32kbps soundtrack
Output: ~40 MB

[Ramirez]

Dextorious, same story here, crash on first pass + "Crop the movie" window bug,now the first problem might be resolved by replacing Producer-9.1M-6 Gold build files Located in autorv\softs\Rp9_Light\*.* dir with the Producer-9.1-M-5 build files, there is some strange bug in Mile Stone 6 build "Missing RIFF Header Error?" which caused the crash, the second problem, most likely caused by the outdated VB6 Runtimes files, I've installed the newest VB6 Run-Runtime Pack (http://download.microsoft.com/download/vb60pro/Redist/sp5/WIN98Me/EN-US/vbrun60sp5.exe) and voila the prob went away.

[Sirber]

RV9 has the same quality if you uses ~700 kbps or more. So, increase the audio bitrate to get near 700kbps. I'm doing Spaceballs, with this settings:

Diagnostic: Application logging enabled
Diagnostic: --------- Input File Properties from rn-avfile-directshow
Diagnostic: Input Filename: C:\SPACEBALLS_LB\VIDEO_TS\dvd_Movie.avs
Diagnostic: File Size: 1KB
Diagnostic: Total Duration: 01:36:10.231
Diagnostic: Video Track
Diagnostic: Dimensions: 720 x 528
Diagnostic: Frame Rate: 23.976 FPS
Diagnostic: Format: YUY2
Diagnostic: Duration: 01:36:10.231
Diagnostic: Audio Track
Diagnostic: Channels: Stereo
Diagnostic: Bit Depth: 16
Diagnostic: SampleRate: 44100 Hz
Diagnostic: Format: Uncompressed Audio
Diagnostic: Duration: 01:36:10.231
Diagnostic: --------- End Input File Properties
Diagnostic: Using AutoRV9_Movie Audience
Diagnostic: Using audio codec: atrc (176400 bps)
Diagnostic: Using video codec: rv9 (826600 bps)
Diagnostic: Setting video packet size to 1352

Resize: Lanzcos
IVTC: Decomb

I sould have used 200kbps+ for audio...

[ookzDVD]

@Sirber and iwod,

Thank you for the info,
I'll try apply it on my next rip. :)

Btw, is the AutoRV9 support YV12 (aka AviSynth 2.5x) ?
I'm using akabob's x2real atm.

Thank you.

[midiguy]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
@Sirber,

I think it's time to ask the fans of RV9 about the experiences and tips or even tricks. :)

What is your main res. for ripping, 640x, bigger? or smaller?
What is min. bitrate should not be used? 300? 400? 500?

PS. I usually use DivX3/DivX5.02 with GKnot for the comp. check.
to get the best ripping resolution.

Thank you.

the resolution depends ont he bitrate.. RV9 users, at least on this board, seem to use 640 x XXX or greater resolution for EVERYTHING, no matter what the bitrate.. I don't tihnk this is such a good thing.. just because you don't see pixels or noise with RV9 doesn't mean that it has been encoded well. don't forget about the in-lopp filtering and the post-processing that is put on your video.. all of that stuff caneasily cover up pixels and noise and blur the hell out of your image. I caution using such high resolutions for such low bitrates.. depending on the movie, I tend to use 640 x XXX for movies encoded at 750 kbps or higher, and generally anything under that, I mostly use 512 x 384 or in some extreme cases, I may even go one notch lower (not usualyl though). I guess a good way to do this is basically to just use the res you would normally use with a XviD/DivX rip, and if you really want a higher resolution, maybe make it one notch higher than that. yeah, that's a good way of putting it.. of coarse, it also depends if your movie is full screen or if it is wide screen..

[midiguy]

Originally posted by Sirber
RV9 has the same quality if you uses ~700 kbps or more. So, increase the audio bitrate to get near 700kbps. I'm doing Spaceballs, with this settings:

Diagnostic: Application logging enabled
Diagnostic: --------- Input File Properties from rn-avfile-directshow
Diagnostic: Input Filename: C:\SPACEBALLS_LB\VIDEO_TS\dvd_Movie.avs
Diagnostic: File Size: 1KB
Diagnostic: Total Duration: 01:36:10.231
Diagnostic: Video Track
Diagnostic: Dimensions: 720 x 528
Diagnostic: Frame Rate: 23.976 FPS
Diagnostic: Format: YUY2
Diagnostic: Duration: 01:36:10.231
Diagnostic: Audio Track
Diagnostic: Channels: Stereo
Diagnostic: Bit Depth: 16
Diagnostic: SampleRate: 44100 Hz
Diagnostic: Format: Uncompressed Audio
Diagnostic: Duration: 01:36:10.231
Diagnostic: --------- End Input File Properties
Diagnostic: Using AutoRV9_Movie Audience
Diagnostic: Using audio codec: atrc (176400 bps)
Diagnostic: Using video codec: rv9 (826600 bps)
Diagnostic: Setting video packet size to 1352

Resize: Lanzcos
IVTC: Decomb

I sould have used 200kbps+ for audio...

hey, umm, if you want the proper aspect ratio, I would crop that 720 down to 704, that would give you a 4:3 aspect, where as now you are actualyl skewing the image :scared:

also, I notice a big difference from above 700 kbps.. I can notice a difference in the 1000s kbps, not sure of an exact number per say, I don't think there is one, because some movies need more bitrate than others, but I ahve noticed a difference well above 700 kbps, atleast usually..

[iwod]

Originally posted by midiguy
the resolution depends ont he bitrate.. RV9 users, at least on this board, seem to use 640 x XXX or greater resolution for EVERYTHING, no matter what the bitrate.. I don't tihnk this is such a good thing.. just because you don't see pixels or noise with RV9 doesn't mean that it has been encoded well. don't forget about the in-lopp filtering and the post-processing that is put on your video.. all of that stuff caneasily cover up pixels and noise and blur the hell out of your image. I caution using such high resolutions for such low bitrates.. depending on the movie, I tend to use 640 x XXX for movies encoded at 750 kbps or higher, and generally anything under that, I mostly use 512 x 384 or in some extreme cases, I may even go one notch lower (not usualyl though). I guess a good way to do this is basically to just use the res you would normally use with a XviD/DivX rip, and if you really want a higher resolution, maybe make it one notch higher than that. yeah, that's a good way of putting it.. of coarse, it also depends if your movie is full screen or if it is wide screen..

As i said, i only do anime rip.... as far as i am concern film rips are totally different to Anime rips...

[Sirber]

Originally posted by midiguy
the resolution depends ont he bitrate.. RV9 users, at least on this board, seem to use 640 x XXX or greater resolution for EVERYTHING, no matter what the bitrate.. I don't tihnk this is such a good thing.. just because you don't see pixels or noise with RV9 doesn't mean that it has been encoded well. don't forget about the in-lopp filtering and the post-processing that is put on your video.. all of that stuff caneasily cover up pixels and noise and blur the hell out of your image. I caution using such high resolutions for such low bitrates.. depending on the movie, I tend to use 640 x XXX for movies encoded at 750 kbps or higher, and generally anything under that, I mostly use 512 x 384 or in some extreme cases, I may even go one notch lower (not usualyl though). I guess a good way to do this is basically to just use the res you would normally use with a XviD/DivX rip, and if you really want a higher resolution, maybe make it one notch higher than that. yeah, that's a good way of putting it.. of coarse, it also depends if your movie is full screen or if it is wide screen..

RV9 use some kind of filtering to blur the edge of squares. The lowest bitrate I used for a movie was ~500kbps, for Saving Private Ryan (in 512x). For all other movies, I uses 720x with no quality loss (Shure I loose some, but RV9 compress more if the movie don't have a lot of details, and RV9 remove all the noise, at any bitrate)

[Sirber]

Originally posted by midiguy
hey, umm, if you want the proper aspect ratio, I would crop that 720 down to 704, that would give you a 4:3 aspect, where as now you are actualyl skewing the image :scared:

also, I notice a big difference from above 700 kbps.. I can notice a difference in the 1000s kbps, not sure of an exact number per say, I don't think there is one, because some movies need more bitrate than others, but I ahve noticed a difference well above 700 kbps, atleast usually..

With this 4:3 movie, AutoRV9 said I had ~1% ratio error, and it's ok with me.

I made some movies a 600kbps (The Messenger, 2h40) with better overal quality than a 1100kbps movie (Evil Dead 3, 1h20)

[Ramirez]

Midiguy, dunno where you're getting this idea about us RV9 users being some sort of zombie encoders, like we where moving resolution slider to the max, setting the bitrate to 500kbps end then hitting the "Encode" button Regardless lengthiness of the specific movie and how well it's compresses, well it's isn't true and I for example have never done a single encoding in my entire life without checking these parameters prior!.

Now my guess is that you're under heavy impression of that "3 hours on 1 CD" tread where I compressed the "Pearl Harbor" using relatively high resolution,well my only purpose was to show the power of RV9 codec which IMHO the only one today who up to this task w/t sacrificing the quality too much, sure I could get much better results by some filtering and lowering the resolution, but again its wasn't my intention at all.

[deXtoRious]

I finally managed to run AutoRV9 properly! I had to install Helix Producer on my computer. I just tried to encode a part from LOTR 1 (the very beginning) and I was amazed by the results... At 720kbps the quality was perfect. It was better than Nic's newest xvid at 1100kbps! BTW, I'm using AviSynth 2.5 now. I have some questions:
1. Which filters are worth using?
2. Is there any reason to use the sharpen option?

Thank you for your patience.

[31 Flavas]

Originally posted by deXtoRious
It was better than Nic's newest xvid at 1100kbps! BTW, I'm using AviSynth 2.5 now. I have some questions:
1. Which filters are worth using?
2. Is there any reason to use the sharpen option? Do you mean the "Sharpest Image" option in Helix Producer? I've never done an encode without it. I usually do not use filters.

BTW, next time, do an encode, but follow the instructions for anamorphic playback (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40572).

The result is awesome! :)

[Sirber]

Originally posted by Ramirez
Midiguy, dunno where you're getting this idea about us RV9 users being some sort of zombie encoders, like we where moving resolution slider to the max, setting the bitrate to 500kbps end then hitting the "Encode" button Regardless lengthiness of the specific movie and how well it's compresses, well it's isn't true and I for example have never done a single encoding in my entire life without checking these parameters prior!.

Now my guess is that you're under heavy impression of that "3 hours on 1 CD" tread where I compressed the "Pearl Harbor" using relatively high resolution,well my only purpose was to show the power of RV9 codec which IMHO the only one today who up to this task w/t sacrificing the quality too much, sure I could get much better results by some filtering and lowering the resolution, but again its wasn't my intention at all.

I've got IT, a Stephen King movie, it's 3h07. It a relatively slow motion movie, so I think I'll be able to put in on a 700MB CD, at least at 640x with no pre-processing.

@all

Here's the links. Please download them only this weekend, I'll remove the links sunday before my little DoDo (sleep). The goal of this was to demonstrate the power (mouhahahahaha) of RV9 on a 20MB file. Settings are in my first post (So don't ask you lazy freaks :p)

Hane fun! And also, you can try with or whitout postprocessing, RV9 beat it anyway (No offence to XviD team, I used XviD before for great rips).

Links deleted
http://www.webernic.com/sites/sirber/Origial.rmvb
http://www.webernic.com/sites/sirber/Original.ogm

[Ramirez]

Hi sirber,Great job!! and great movie,damn it I never saw it before, I've seen only the first one where this guy looses his arm (correct?) don't remember that movie name though.Anyway I wanna try something similar with WMV9-vcm vs. RV9 because frankly I was impressed by the quality that vcm9 codec produces.

Btw: xvid's results are too damn horrible, are you sure that you've used everything in your power to squeeze any additional quality out of that codec? ;) :)

[Sirber]

Yeah. Looks at the settings. The only thing new was VHQ-1. I had great rips with XviD (like fight club). I used almost the same settings, to have the best quality.

This is the original ending of Evil Dead 3: Army of darkness.

[TheXung]

umm, do you really not see what you are doing wrong with the xvid clip? or what was done to the real clip?

1. MPEG quantization performs horribly at those quants. Have you tried h263 for this?
2. This source is noisy. Any codec that does prefiltering or in-loop filtering will obviously have a better time compressing it than one that doesn't. And we choose not to have xvid do any prefiltering because we feel that as rippers, prefiltering is something that should be left to the ripper. We cannot blame the codec for such a design decision. Initially, I found wm9 to encode minority report better than xvid, but that was because it was smoothing out all the film grain. Once I applied the appropriate filters to the source, xvid was able to best wm9 easily.

Postprocessing can only do so much for a poorly encoded clip.
3. As closely as I can follow xvid's development, I don't think there's been much quality optimization put into the 8 to 16 quants. It's been mainly focused in the lower quants which would be the case if the source didn't have so much film grain or was properly filtered.


I think the only way you're gonna convince me of RM's superiority is if you somehow managed to post the source and let people download it and encode it ourselves. No offence, but I always first doubt the ripping abilities of other people.
There are VOB cutters around right? and the vob shouldn't be that many times larger. If filesize is a constraint, perhaps the length should be cut in half.

[deXtoRious]

Originally posted by 31 Flavas
Do you mean the "Sharpest Image" option in Helix Producer? I've never done an encode without it. I usually do not use filters.

BTW, next time, do an encode, but follow the instructions for anamorphic playback (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40572).

The result is awesome! :)

No, I mean the msharpen filters. Simply even with the Sharpest Image option on, RV9 encodes too smoothly (faces look bad).

[Sirber]

Originally posted by TheXung
umm, do you really not see what you are doing wrong with the xvid clip? or what was done to the real clip?

1. MPEG quantization performs horribly at those quants. Have you tried h263 for this?


Yeah. I tryed once with The Matrix. Things where more squared, like for smog. Postprocessing was nessesary. For Evil Dead 3 too, H263 remove too much stuff. Only MPEG quant makes it viewable.

[TheXung]

Originally posted by Sirber
Yeah. I tryed once with The Matrix. Things where more squared, like for smog. Postprocessing was nessesary. For Evil Dead 3 too, H263 remove too much stuff. Only MPEG quant makes it viewable.

You realize that H263 is the same quantization used in divx 3.11, 4, 5. Squaring artifacts isn't attributable to simply the idea of h263 quantization.

[Sirber]

I know, and that's why DIVX3, 4 and 5 need postprocessing for <800kbps. All my good 1CD rips (2h20 max) are using MPEG quants and doesn't require postprocessing to be watchable (viewable?).

I'm encoding Stephen King's It, 3h07, in 1 CD:

Diagnostic: Application logging enabled
Diagnostic: --------- Input File Properties from rn-avfile-directshow
Diagnostic: Input Filename: C:\STEPHEN_KING_S_IT\CD1+2_Movie.avs
Diagnostic: File Size: 1KB
Diagnostic: Total Duration: 03:07:22.325
Diagnostic: Video Track
Diagnostic: Dimensions: 640 x 352
Diagnostic: Frame Rate: 23.976 FPS
Diagnostic: Format: YUY2
Diagnostic: Duration: 03:07:22.325
Diagnostic: Audio Track
Diagnostic: Channels: Stereo
Diagnostic: Bit Depth: 16
Diagnostic: SampleRate: 44100 Hz
Diagnostic: Format: Uncompressed Audio
Diagnostic: Duration: 03:07:22.325
Diagnostic: --------- End Input File Properties
Diagnostic: Using AutoRV9_Movie Audience
Diagnostic: Using audio codec: cook (64082 bps)
Diagnostic: Using video codec: rv9 (450918 bps)
Diagnostic: Setting video packet size to 1352

Filters:

Decomb
Neutral Bicubic
Convolution3D Light

I wonder how It will be. It (It mouhahahaha) will be my longest movie on a CD if the quality is good.