Do same thing as dvd2one for free with DVDToolBox

[mrbass]

Here's my simple DVDToolBox Guide (http://www.mrbass.org/dvdtoolbox/)
DVD2ONE does movie only and many are amazed at how it looks exactly the same as the original dvd. Guess what folks it is untouched (no transcoding required in many instances). Problem is there is no way to tell if dvd2one is transcoding or not.

Obviously if it won't fit by stripping the DVD then you'd have to use dvd2one, dvd95copy, or instantcopy to reduce the main movie to fit on DVD-R. But you'd be surprised at how many actually do fall into this category.

I know you can do same thing with IfoEdit but that's a tad over my head. I follow along with ifoedit and yes it's also free but the process has to be brainless for me to use it. me = dumbass & idiot.

This may be in the wrong forum and probably should be in ifoedit forum. Yet at the same token dvd2one isn't ALWAYS transcoding either (most don't know when it is or isn't).

For those who still want to use dvd2one this would still be excellent to use. Takes 30 seconds and therefore you'll know what to strip so dvd2one needn't do any transcoding.

[MackemX]

excellent work again matey

does this only strip one PGC at a time tho?

I wish I could find one that could strip PGC's from the DVD instead of the other way round, now that would be useful although not impossible when using Ifoedit

cheers

p.s. erm.... :confused:, oh yes!, to keep this in this forum :), say you stripped the movie PGC does it still work with IC? cos that could be useful

[mrbass]

yes only does one PGC. I did 10 movies tonight...Only 8 mins or less to strip a movie. I don't know if Instant Copy would still work. I'll try it out and report back.

Using DVDToolBox takes thirty seconds and even if it doesn't fit to 4.37GB you can strip it down to very close by unchecking unneeded audio languages (but not actually going thru the strip process). Say you only feel comfortable doing dvd2one when it's below 5GB or whatever your threshhold for quality is. Dvd95copy and dv2one users could add this to their arsenal.

edit: yes IC7 works after it's stripped because it corrects navigation packets and starting sectors, etc. in the VIDEO_TS.IFO.
What were you think of using it with IC7 only for though?

the 10 movies I stripped tonight with DVDToolBox
Bug's Life, Lilo and Stitch, Monster's Inc., Crouching Tiger, Fast and Furious, Spy Kids 2, Inspector Gadget 2, Jonah Veggie Tales, Peter Pan 2

[MackemX]

I was gonna suggest just ripping using DVDToolbox direct from DVD but the CCS encryption isn't removed IIRC

the bad thing about DVDToolbox is that it still processes the whole DVD even if you strip a small portion so this is why Ifoedit is still the King for stripping out specific streams

could you not use DVDDecrpyter in Ifomode (or smartripper) and rip the video/audio/subs streams direct from DVD. You can even remove the final chapter to get rid of end credits (1st checking where the last chapter starts!)

after ripping it's less than 4.37Gb then burn it direct, if not stick it into DVD2One/DVD95Copy and do the business

before doing the burning or using DVD2One/DVD95copy you have to change the first play PGC and rename the VOB's but does this method work?. I'm sure I've seen guides on ripping the movie only direct from DVD

I'm sure it does, I just tried it with a Simpsons episode and it worked ok and only took 7 minutes from startng to rip to being ready to burn and that was my 1st attempt :D. Using DVDToolbox would have taken 18 mins to rip DVD then another 8 mins to strip so I saved 19mins at least by taking only 7 mins (obviously this was only ripping 1.3Gb which only took 2 mins to rip, so say another 5-6 mins to rip 4.37 due to 1.3Gb being just under 1/3 of 4.37gb), so I still saved over 10 mins on a process that takes 28mins (33% reduction in usertime)

EDIT: DVDDecrypter even tells you the final output size when in Ifomode
http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/temp/ifomode.png

[MackemX]

Originally posted by mrbass

edit: yes IC7 works after it's stripped because it corrects navigation packets and starting sectors, etc. in the VIDEO_TS.IFO.
What were you think of using it with IC7 only for though?

better quality for the likes of the longer movies of Saving Private Ryan etc

[mrbass]

Originally posted by MisterX
the bad thing about DVDToolbox is that it still processes the whole DVD even if you strip a small portion so this is why Ifoedit is still the King for stripping out specific streams

King for people who understand IfoEdit. I take it the masses don't. Certainly none of my friends. I couldn't even teach most of them how to use DVD2SVCD. Theit brain just wasn't/isn't there. Neither is mine for that matter. They want it massively simple and DVDToolBox does just that.

You can at least view it from the dvd directly (but currently it won't refresh if new dvd is inserted) to see if you can't strip it down to 4.37GB. I'm still going to rip all files just in case and then my options are open as I needn't rip entire dvd again to process with dvd2one, ic7, or dvd95copy or whatever.

[MackemX]

yep your right as it appeals to the masses

one good thing about using DVDDecrypter along with Ifoedit to strip is you can chop off the beginning/end credits in case the DVD is just too large. If DVDtool had the chapter removal feature it would be fantastic and surely it will be in the pipeline

In fact I may just get a simple guide up but then again I'm sure there's guides out there that show this cos it ain't that hard to do and it's quicker than encoding the DVD again but unfortunately involves pressing more than a BIG RED BUTTON :D

[DVC2]

whats wrong with a big red button - I like big red buttons very much :D

[MackemX]

but then what would I do with the other 23 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds of the day if I did use the BIG RED BUTTON?


I guess I'm just fussy and maybe enjoy getting exactly what I want in a backup and use whatever means necessary to get it. That's if I can spare the time :(, tho it is easier and quicker these days compared to 'the 'during the wooooar' days :D

I guess it's just some users have no knowledge, some have no time, some are just pure lazy, some really aint that fussed about content. I'm the 1st three to a tee but I'm fussy so that overules them all :)

p.s. or were u referring to another BIG RED BUTTON? ;)

[muralin]

MisterX:

i used dvddecrypter in ifo mode to remove audio streams and last chapter (credits). then used ifoedit to create new ifos. ran dvd2one. resulting size was over 5GB. if i used dvddecrypter in ifo mode and then processed with dvd2one, the resulting size is ALWAYS over 4.37GB (assuming the original was over 4.37GB). If i ran DVD2one again on the newly created 5GB file set, i got 4.37GB.

looks like dvd2one doesnt like to use filed created by dvddecrypter in ifo mode.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by muralin
MisterX:

i used dvddecrypter in ifo mode to remove audio streams and last chapter (credits). then used ifoedit to create new ifos

I used original VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP and movie DVDDecrypter IFO/BUP's

then open one and click GET VTS, then go into VIDEO_TS.IFO and change the first play to the first chapter of the movie

I don't know the consequences of then using a compression tool until I try it :D

[jaagee]

Originally posted by mrbass
Here's my simple DVDToolBox Guide (http://www.mrbass.org/dvdtoolbox/)


Thanks mrbass. Once again, you are the man! :) We can always count on you to provide us with great information and guides. BTW, did you use the original version of DVDToolBox or the newer beta version? Do you know what the difference is between the two?

Thanks Again,

Jaagee

[MackemX]

just a thought

why not rip just the relevant IFO/BUP/VOB's for the movie along with the VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP then stick it into DVDToolbox

would that not be quicker than ripping all files as suggested in the guide?

I'm sure it works cos I think I used to do it that way when I first used DVDToolbox

it saves ripping the complete DVD

[2COOL]

@mrbass

You do good work! Nice guide. Just wanted to point out two things with it.

1. In your guide, you have this line.

Uncheck some audio and see if you can't get it below 4.37GB.

I knew what your saying but "can't" should be read "can".

2. I was saving your html page and found out your window title read "Instant Copy".

Again, keep up the good work!

[mrbass]

thanks 2cool I'll fix those two things in 2 mins..hehe (now you know I copied my index.html from instantcopy and erased everything, you found me out).
MisterX what do you mean when you first used it? You should've told me about it. I first heard about it from doom9 news March 17th. I was confused cuz I already heard of dvdtoolbox but it was something else. Now the 'other' dvdtoolbox is going to get a name change.
http://www.dvd-backup.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=287

@jagee...yes I use the lastest beta 0.11.1b..as reflect in the screenshots.

[MackemX]

LOL! :D

got myself muddled up think, but I've used something similar but what it was is beyond me. I'm sure it was that one how long has it been out? judging by that thread at least 4 weeks so I probably did try it but I can't remember now

http://www.dvd-backup.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36


but ripping just the stuff you need worked for me as I tried it earlier just to check but obviously that was only one DVD

[mrbass]

@MisterX...that thread isn't not about DVDToolbox.de but rather another product that is also named DVDToolbox but they're in the process of changing their name. Thus my confusion.

[MackemX]

Post: Two DVDToolboxes??

REPLY : even 3 I found another product from vitec.

the person who find me a cool name will win free licences !

posted Feb 24th

to me that says there was 3 DVDtoolboxes around at the time 4 weeks ago

understand why I linked that now? :confused:

http://www.plenert.net/DVDToolbox/index_en.htm is the thread title and guess where that takes you

I knew I'd seen it before and I didn't even use DVD backup then so it may have even been longer than 4 weeks ago, so sorry but been there, bought the T-shirt so it ain't exactly a new program is it?, then again it will be if you've just seen it!

better luck next time LOL :p

p.s just noticed you have version 0.11.b whereas the one on the site shows 0.10.b and that's the one I had

[mrbass]

the screenshot shows 0.10b on dvdtoolbox.de but the only download (besides an alpha version) is 0.11.1b. Ok now I understand. Anyway did you give 0.11.1b a try. Only takes 8 mins. Doubt it'll kill you with trying it out.

[MackemX]

thats the one I used just today

like I said it works if you just rip the main IFO/BUP and movie IFO/BUP/VOB's

so why not try it and save another 8 mins ripping?

[mrbass]

cuz I want to be at liberty to do it with instantcopy if it doesn't work out for whatever reason. I'd hate having to throw back the dvd in and re-rip. But sure you can do it that way. Even dvd2one works that way too. How many dvd2one users only rip main movie though? I'd say 98% probably rip all files CTRL-A. So why not try asking them?

[MackemX]

Originally posted by mrbass
cuz I want to be at liberty to do it with instantcopy if it doesn't work out for whatever reason. I'd hate having to throw back the dvd in and re-rip. But sure you can do it that way. Even dvd2one works that way too. How many dvd2one users only rip main movie though? I'd say 98% probably rip all files CTRL-A. So why not try asking them?

LOL :D

just use DVDtoolbox and open the original DVD and it will tell you the estimated size of the DVD before ripping

if it don't work out then just rip the rest of the files into the folder you ripped into originally if you wanna use IC after the 8 minutes of DVDtool processing is up or is it really that hard for you?

but then again you do like it the hard way tho don't you :confused:, so I guess I'll give up suggesting things for you cos you always seems to have a negative answer to them :confused:

[mrbass]

au contraire....did you try it. I already sent that bug report. I would love to do that. Yes it works but as soon as you put in a new dvd you can't get DVDToolBox to refresh even though windows explorer and dvddecrypter show the newly inserted dvd-rom. I'm one ahead of you MisterX :rolleyes:

[MackemX]

Originally posted by mrbass
au contraire....did you try it. I already sent that bug report. I would love to do that. Yes it works but as soon as you put in a new dvd you can't get DVDToolBox to refresh even though windows explorer and dvddecrypter show the newly inserted dvd-rom. I'm one ahead of you MisterX :rolleyes:
again you amaze me with your reply and seem to think I'm in some sort of competition with you :confused:
Firstly let me say I ain't in any competition matey, but if you continue with your derogative posts every time I post something (not just this thread) then I guess you'd better read rule #4 again cos I'm getting a bit sick of your sarcastic and attempted witty remarks everytime now cos you seem to think you know everything (maybe you do but that don't give you right to attempt to shoot people down, even though you have failed miserably) and now it's gone too far

now back to thread, what on earth has that quote got to do with anything anyway? and yes I've tried it or else I wouldn't post

again you put your foot in your mouth :confused:

simple steps to use DVDToolbox

1. insert DVD
2. open DVDtoolbox click CHOOSE & point it to the VIDEO_TS folder in DVD drive
3. check filesize for streams you want to keep
4. click CANCEL on DVDToolbox but leave it open
5. rip DVD with DVDdecrypter selecting only the relevant files
6. click CHOOSE in DVDToolbox and now point it to the ripped folder
7. set it up and process
8. the end!

(steps 1-4 can be replaced by using Ifomode in DVDDecrypter to check size)

anything wrong with that or it it still too complicated?

and what's this about the refresh bug?, are you talking about after you have clicked execute you are the putting in another DVD and it doesn't refresh?

Where does it say it's gonna refresh or where is the button?

why would you swap the DVD when you are just about to rip it? :confused:

if u swap DVD's when the opening DVDtoolbox screen is on and point it to the VIDEO_TS folder and then click execute it works just fine for me as it analyzes the Source path you have pointed it to

AND, if you insert another DVD while you are on the opening screen you don't even have to change the Source path as it stores the last one which in this case is the VIDEO_TS folder of the DVD drive

you are just digging yourself a bigger hole my friend by continously trying to belittle me and failing!

so who's one step behind? :rolleyes: :p

get with times man :cool: and stop bitching as it's gone too far. So end it now and post a sensible reply to me for once please :)

the ball in in your court my friend :)

[int 21h]

I'd say the MisterX posts are more abrasive than the mrbass posts.

Whatever happens to work best for you is the best answer.

[mrbass]

I apologize profusely MisterX. Trust me I've learned more from you than anyone. I always appreciate your bug hunting, reporting and new methodlogy. I didn't mean it to come across as it did. Sorry to offend. No hard feelings over here.


and what's this about the refresh bug?, are you talking about after you have clicked execute you are the putting in another DVD and it doesn't refresh?
yes exactly..that's all I was saying. I sent a bug report about it last night to the author.

edit: Actually come to think of it..maybe not clicking execute. I was trying to flip through dvds to see which ones could be processed with DVDToolBox and which ones would have to be done with IC7. It wouldn't refresh while windows explorer and dvddecrypter had no problem refreshing when a new dvd was inserted into the dvdrom.

[MackemX]

no offence taken and apologies if I offended you, it's just half the time I dunno what you mean, and now hopefully we can continue happily so other's users can benefit from our knowledge and not laugh at us bickering :D

and let be the first to admit that I may have put my foot in my mouth suggesting you use DVDtoolbox for estimating the filesize cos is this bug in DVDToolbox you talk about?, where you uncheck one of the audio streams and then the estimated total shoots upto 8000GB+?

http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/temp/toolbox1.png

this can be overcome by playing the DVD in a player to unlock it and refresh DVDtoolbox and then DVDtoolbox works again but sometimes it reports that it could not get the audio bitrates and creates the error again probably due to encryptrion

http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/temp/toolbox2.png

Is this the bug you reported?

and you can't use DVDDecrypter to estimate filesize cos it doesn't adjust the size for audio so again I was wrong, but that's all part of the learning process so I've got two feet in my mouth :)

p.s. int21h yes it is all down to the user but I was merely suggesting quicker methods to try and maybe implement. If someone suggests something I try it and then base my replies on those results. I'm pretty sure you can rip only the movie ifo/bup/vob's and the main ifo/bup and get the same results as you would if you rip the complete DVD. Now surely people would be interested in knowing that?

and my replies in this post may have eventually got a little defensive due the negative vibes I was getting from mrbass from my suggestions cos in no way did I mean to degrade his guide at all but his replies to my suggestions were negative on most occasions and then also sarcastic, and worse even still, wrong on some occasions

I can take a joke no problem, but if you seen mine and mrbass's previous encounters during threads including private messages you may understand why eventually I blurted it out in my last post but now it's all sorted and we can all get along :D

[mrbass]

Originally posted by MisterX

this can be overcome by playing the DVD in a player to unlock it and refresh DVDtoolbox and then DVDtoolbox works again but sometimes it reports that it could not get the audio bitrates and creates the error again probably due to encryptrion

http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/temp/toolbox2.png

Is this the bug you reported?

and my replies in this post may have eventually got a little defensive due the negative vibes I was getting from mrbass

no I never saw the 8GB but now see it like crazy when trying to use DVDToolbox directly from the dvd. However, I've never seen it on over 25 DVDs when it's been ripped to the hd. So I still recommend CTRL-A file mode because for me I don't know if it can be done with dvdtoolbox before or if I have to use IC7 to process it.

yes...in defense of MisterX ...I did say things in PM and maybe it was too much. I'll try to be more careful at what I say (hopefully I don't blow it below) ..or let me reprhase that..not what I say but how I come across saying it.

I do want to say (please don't let this turn into a riot, I can only pray and hope). I've kept silent in threads where you recommend people not to take away titles in IC7 because it'll result in an improper dvd and may not play in dvd player. Thus you say dvd95copy wins because it can keep all titles and reduce extras to 1% for example and achieve better quality by having more bitrate for the main movie than IC7. Personally I've never had a problem with many dvds I've backed up and I always uncheck all titles (except main movie)in IC7 and they've played perfect in my Pioneer 434 dvd player.

Obviously you have your way (technically your correct) and I have my way of backing up dvd's with IC7. But God gave us all free agency as long as we're all willing to suffer the consequences.

Please MisterX (nothing above is a personal attack, degrading, missle launching, or whatever). If it is..I apologize in advance and didn't mean it to come across in a bad way or as an attack.

[MackemX]

no offence taken but could you do me a favour?

remember my spykids 2 DVD when I unticked all titles apart from menu, yet it still copied certain titles across and this would have been included in the end result wasting 400MB+

could any of your DVD's contain this sort of fault also?, as I've noticed it on a few now

you may not notice it being there if you just burn direct or from ISO, so if you wouldn't mind checking a few for these hidden VOB's I'd appreciate it. I'm gonna check some of my earlier efforts with IC and see if I have any hidden MB in them also cos I've a funny feeling some might :(

this is one reason why I suggest not to use title removal and the other is that a fussy standalone may not play these DVD's. I have a Dansai DVD that even plays my old 12" vinyl's yet my Sony is a right fusspot so I have to go through this ritual everytime :(!

agreed it is a matter of opinion as I cannot force people to use my methods but I hope it gives them more options to decide which route to take when backing up a DVD and hopefully our suggestions help them and if they don't do it then that's ok, no harm done but at least they know about it

have you not seen my ultimate backup tool post?. Hopefully it will come along soon where you just click which PGC's you wanna keep, set the allocation size to each one then choose your compression engine quality and click the Start button and actually get a 4.37Gb DVD :)

[mrbass]

yes I have seen your ultimate backup tool thread...and I concur 100%. I did spy kids and it came out to 4.18GB. I set it to 4.65GB I believe it was. Spy Kids 2 I did with DVDToolBox so I wouldn't know. I'm gonna do Road to Perdition tonight with IC7 and will see if it has any issues as I've heard from some that they have issues with IC7 and that movie.

[MackemX]

doh!, cos my problem was with Spy Kids 2!, if only you'd done it then I wudda known what the effect was when just picking movie and I aint gonna do it again :D

is yours region 1 by the way?

what's up with RTP?, I have that and was thinking about doing it again with IC :(

[markrb]

I did RTP as my first ever use of IC7 and it took some serious tweaking to get it to the size intended.
I am the type of person that if I have 4.37GB's to use I want 4.37Gb's and nothing less will work.

I started with a IC size of somewhere around 4.6GB's after the unwanted audio tracks where removed and I just kept re-doing the movie with higher and higher sizes until I was well over 5GB on the IC7 slider. Finally I got the desired 4.37 size I wanted, but only after 7 encodes.

What I found out while doing RTP with CCE(which I did so as to compare my normal way with IC7) is that RTP's main movie is super compressible. Using the Q factor in CCE advanced mode I noticed that even at lower then normal bitrates the Q factor is very low (which is what you want).

This was my experience with RTP and IC7 as I had reported to mrbass in the past.

Mark

[mrbass]

road to perdition 3.41GB set slider to 5.05GB 99% on IC7
set DVDSaveQuality to 50% and got 2.79GB

DVDSaveQuality TO 0% came out to 3.37GB

4.36GB on dvd2one

dvd2one wins this movie quality wise since it can hit the G-spot of 4.37GB...no clue what Instant Copy is thinking. Still gonna play with DVDAnalyzeRel whatever set to 100% and may DVDSaveQuality set to 1%.

here's the screenshots of ic at 3.41GB total size and dvd2one
http://www.mrbass.org/instantcopy/rtp.zip

edit: fixed link

[mrbass]

ok this is probably what I'm gonna do

Movie only, all subs, and just AC-36CH (checked with dvdtoolbox)
Road to Perdition is 4.81GB - 4.36GB = .45GB or 450MB
use dvd2one for this one
Gladiator is 6.22GB - 4.36GB = 1.86GB
will use IC7 for this one

So I'll have to do more trial and error but I'm thinking of 5.0GB as my maximum will be my limit for when to use dvd2one.

main movie + audio + subs = 5.0GB (shown in dvdtoolbox) which means dvd2one only has to reduce it via transcode by 640MB. Anything above 5.0GB I'll be using IC7. At least that is my temporary feeling.

sidenote: you snooze you loose. DVDToolBox is no longer freeware but I still don't understand the license for it to be honest. You can still use it 100% in unregistered mode though so a few restrictions.

[MackemX]

thats about an 87% setting mrbass for RTP which is well within DVD2One limits wouldn't you agree

a method for people to work out a % cutoff point for which program to use could be

4.37Gb-(audio+subs)= space for video

space for video / original video size = %


so RTP would be

4.37-0.53=3.74

3.74/4.27=87.58%

hope this simple formula helps people

EDIT: eh??, just readin your previous post again your sizes are different to mine, then I remembered what I saw earlier on

look at this mrbass
RTP stripped with DVDToolbox in IC (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/temp/rtp/rtp1.png)
RTP Original in IC (http://www.deano.dsl.pipex.com/temp/rtp/rtp4.png)

strange how the Original is 0.12Gb smaller. Is yours the same? Can't rememeber if I raised this before in the other thread but is does seem strange don't it :confused:

[waldok]

Sorry to interfere here, and with all due respect to the amazing work you guys have been doing on these IC issues, I must say I don't understand the point and I fond it is getting overly complicated.
IC and the likes are supposed to be "one click" solutions. Now, reading your numerous (and yet valuable) posts, it seems to me tweaking IC is far more time consuming and complicated than using the good old CCE method. This was not supposed to be. If one has to tweak an all-in-one tool for hours before he can expect a satisfactory result, well, better get a refund and do the whole process the manual way so the result is known from the start and great quality will be there in the end.

Very strange, if you'll allow me to say this. I will stick to CCE "do it yourself" method for now, but still I'd like to understand your motivations for spending so much time on these tools. Once again, I insist I do respect the hours you spend to help others here, but don't you think these "endless tweaking" just shows that Pinnacle people have some homework left before their product is OK.

To me, this is just like you buy a TV set and everytime you want to watch something, you have to search for TV channels one by one...Not meant to do this...Better build your TV-Set yourself...

Hope I don't sound like disrespecting your work here. Sure do't mean to.

Waldok:cool:

[MackemX]

interfere all you like waldork, this is a forum to voice opinions and I don't take no offence from your comments at all as I agree with them anyway

I am fortunate enough to be able to use CCE and can do most things using it but I also like to see the guys who aint gotta clue or means to use CCE also enjoy some sorta success like we obviously get

It's obvious that IC ain't gonna appeal to the high majority of the users of CCE (why drive a Ford when you can drive a Ferrari :)), I understand that but it does appeal to the users who don't have the knowledge or resources to use CCE

let's just say IC did iron out the sizing issue by doing a 2 pass and also inserted dummy entries in PGC's instead of removing them and also was able to ignore black scenes, I wonder how many CCE users would jump ship?. I have decided to take advantage of IC's ability to maintain the DVD structure when used 'correctly' yet still produce high quality results for minimal effort (though it is a big effort for people who cannot fully understand it's workings)so this is why I feel obliged to share all my findings and success's with IC so they can adapt their methods to get better results like I do

IC is in no way complicated when used in a certain manner, but it is to people who don't use it correctly. So if IC is complicated to those people, they would have a heart attack if they attempted using CCE. If you feed IC a fully compliant DVD, keeping all titles, do a few simple checks 1st and as long as it doesn't contain blank scenes it will work. All this taking less than a few minutes to setup in IC

If you have the ability and knowledge to use CCE then good for you I say, but it would be nice if CCE users accepted the fact that it's not an option for all of the people due to cost and methods, whereas DVD2One/DVD95Copy/InstantCopy are

This is in no way a personal comment or an attack on CCE users, just a statement as I myself truely appreciate the quality that CCE produces but I also respect the user's knowledge that is needed to use it as I too use it. Though now I find myself drawn to using the IC engine due to it's ability to deal with the high majority of DVD's and still maintain that all important DVD structure if the title removal feature isn't used and then get say 90% of the quality result I would with CCE for 10% of the effort

IC is in no way the perfect tool, but it isn't far short when you do use it in a certain way and hopefully the more inexperienced users can get the same results as we, the more experienced guys always get if we share our knowledge

It probably all depends on people's cutoff points regarding effort&resources/results attained don't you think?

[waldok]

As usual, your comments are wise and moderate, which I appreciate, Mister X.

I'll try to make my feeling about IC-like programs a bit clearer. I have nothing (of course) against having a one-click tool that does it all (see the recent reauthorist software, just a great idea).
I also find your remark about CCE price pretty fair.

Now my point was not directed towards IC users, not like "shame on you you people who cannot use CCE", that's not it. It's just that I find it odd to have to spend hours tweaking a product that claims it does it all in one-click. I mean, you people devote your time helping Pinnacle people improving their software, just like you were official beta-testers (maybe you are after all ;). Now, this behaviour is great as far as free programs are concerned, helping their author improving the product for the benefits of all users. Here, let me try to predict that once you will have done all the good work, Pinnacle people will read your contributions here, integrate all possible tweaks and tricks you found, and sell a new version at a more expensive price.
"Thank you MisterX and others for having found all these great tweaks, now you are allowed to buy the software for $200 more". THat's how I see the thing.
So you understand it is nothing against you or IC users, it's more against the way a commercial company doesn't fulfill its commitment to customers. Maybe I'm tough to them here, but things I could accept from the individuals who make DVD95Copy or DVD2one are hard to accept from a well established company.
Considering you guys find the time to discover possible improvements to IC, when you've got other things to do in life (I hope so :p), I can't imagine dedicated people at IC are not able to produce new versions more frequently than they do and improve quality to make their tool a real one-click solution.

Now I may be wrong on this, this is just my own feeling about it.
In no way I would try to stop you from taking pleasure in tweaking every single bit of IC :D

Waldok:cool:

[mrbass]

I think I've still only burn one dvd, ok maybe two to dvd-r with IC. I've done quite a few encodes with it though testing it out. I test them out on dvd+rw. However, I have done over 20 or so with dvdtoolbox cuz that is perfect for me. Quick and all. I think I'm waiting for the next update before I start cranking them out with IC. Or I could just grow impatient.
BTW, I spend a fair amount of time but I most do say 4 or 5 encodes on my home computer..just login from work (when boss ain't lookin) and do test encodes. Also vice versa...I login to work via vpn and do encodes on my work computer. So it's not as bad as it seems. Most of the time is trying to read through all these posts you guys crank out like a Model T.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by waldok
It's just that I find it odd to have to spend hours tweaking a product that claims it does it all in one-click. I mean, you people devote your time helping Pinnacle people improving their software, just like you were official beta-testers (maybe you are after all ;).
LOL at your comments as they are more than valid and I like the way you worded it:), but can I pick this one quote out?

I have spent hours discovering how to tweak IC but for my own benefit not Pinnacle's as I now use it to my full advantage as I just about know how it works and can overcome any bug apart from the dark scenes and the widescreen black bars undersizing issue of which I have had one experience of each. I fixed the first and simply used DVD95Copy with the 2.35:1 fault as it benefited from the amount of black in the image throughout. So I post on this and other forums to show that if you do it properly and in a certain, simple manner IC is not as bad as everyone makes out to be and actually is a good product and hopefully users will benefit in the same as my friends also have with my pointers, some of who have minimal computer experience never mind DVD backing up! :D

can I ask how long it would take a newbie/inexperienced user to fully understand CCE and all the other programs involved? (exactly :D) Chances are there will be a program that uses a CCE like encoder but works in the same way as IC that will be available by the time they are anywher near being able to use it to its full advantage

Taking this into account, would it be wise for the average person to purchase the now cheaper CCE basic and the other required programs then spend numerous hours trying to master it when there is a CCE 1:1 backup tool somewhere on the horizon?

here is an example of the time taken when I'm backing up a DVD to show I how little time I do spend backing up a DVD as I sure other experienced backup user's will be able to do

Selective Backup
Job Usertime Processing
---------------------------------------------------------
Rip DVD 1 15-20
Decide what to keep 5-10 0
Find what I don't want 5-10 0
Strip it all 5-15 5-15
Setup IC 5-10 90-120
Burn 0 15
---------------------------------------------------------
Total 21-46 125-170
possible extra needed due to size issue if I estimate wrong
extract 1 10-15
fix 5 10-30

Complete 1:1 backup
---------------------------------------------------------
Rip DVD 1 15-20
Setup IC 5-10 90-120
Burn 0 15
---------------------------------------------------------
Total 16 120-155



now as you can see on average it takes between say 21-46 mins of my time sat at computer to create a backup and between 125-170 for the processing

these may of course may on occasions be lower or higher depending on complexity of DVD but the majority will fall within these brackets and obviously not the hours of endless tweaking you quoted :D

As I have also stated I would pay £100 or more even, if something gave me the options of my dream backup tool

As for tweaking IC all that is left are the analysis reg settings which may or may not have a noticable affect on results

bring on the next backup tool I say :D

EDIT:
Originally posted by mrbass
Most of the time is trying to read through all these posts you guys crank out like a Model T. LOL :D, enjoy this one and that's why I have so much free time to write these posts due to minimal usertime :)