Weekly digest

[philtre]

It would be very useful if someone who follows all the important threads in this forum wrote a weekly digest for people who would like to "just encode".

My problem is that I wanted to a reencode of a 2CD AVI with AC3 to a 1CD OGM with OGG.

But after browsing through the forum for 2 hours, looking for answers on which options to turn on/off and stuff, I decided I was lost and just gave up.

If there was a "sticky" post with info like: "Don't use the lumi masking because..." and "B-frames are finally bug-free so knock yourself out" on a regular basis, it would be really helphul for regular users like me.

I hope this makes sense.

philtre

[Koepi]

This makes perfectly sense.
Now let's find someone who does all the hard work - and gets slapped around for it, no paycheck, no thanks, no nothing ,)

I hope you get the point ;)

But I'd appreciate if someone with _much_ spare time would be up to that task.

Regards
Koepi

[Baalthazaar]

Hell, it would be helpful if there were just one sticky thread that was editted regularly with brief explanations and links to current important threads, becuase often important info pops up under a subject heading that I have no interest in reading. That would be a lot less work than actually paraphrasing everything that's going on, too.

[Nic]

The most important info is already in the FAQ, read all the links in there and you'll know more than most.

There are too many conflicting opinions on whats best and whats safe to use. The XviD developers don't add things, thinking that they aren't ISO compatible or broken, they are always thought of as ok. But things change. People use DivX because they think its a standard but even with 5.03 there a few little incompatabilities that make it break the standard (more so than XviD). Use XviD and its features at your own risk.

Simple rule: Take sysKin's word as the gospel truth, read his posts and bide by them. Thats the best guide your going to get :)

Sorry if this isn't the answer you were looking for, but it is the honest truth. Welcome to life, on the cutting edge :)

Cheers,
-Nic

[raistlin2k]

But I'd appreciate if someone with _much_ spare time would be up to that task.

Spare time, what's that?:confused:

Raist;)

[kilg0r3]

Currently, I am trying to compile the bug/fixed bug report for the latest koepi build on my little place. However I don't have the time to also keep track of Nic's builds or even Umaniac's instant builds. AaaaND,I cannot make any statement about how complete, correct and how up-to-date the information is/will remain.

[Nic]

Thats great kilg0r :) Anything would be appreciated. If you'd prefer, post it and ill make it a sticky :)

Take Care,
-Nic

[kilg0r3]

Did you take a look at it before your praise? It won't be more than it is now, and, since I don't know how long I will be able to continue, I would rather that it remain on my site. This would mean less obligation for me.

Nonetheless, suggestions are always wellcome.:)

[Nic]

What you did was fine, im tempted to either add something similar to the Q&A or another sticky (but I hate too many stickies, hence I cut the number in half recently)

My only fear is we wouldnt be able to keep it upto date. Hmmm, but things like the SSE2 comments should probably be in the Q&A as P4's are some what ubiquitous now. Do you mind if I borrow some of your text to add to the Q&A?
(Infact the last post in the Q&A is yours, so you or I could add it to that if you wished)

Cheers,
-Nic

[kilg0r3]

Originally posted by Nic
Do you mind if I borrow some of your text to add to the Q&A?
Do with it what you like. :)

[Defiler]

I fear that any such "weekly conclusions" thread would instantly turn into a flamewar. "No way, Feature_X ruins my encodes!! You sux!"
etc. Still.. a beautiful idea.

[kilg0r3]

I have been fine so far.

[Nic]

@defiler: that is a risk, but things like the SSE2 bug, there should be a mention that states that it is unsafe to use. VHQ > 1 might be good for some people, but a general rule says not. Ill try to make them suggestions rather than rules to follow :)

Cheers,
-Nic

[bond]

i like the idea of a "weekly digest"

perhaps there also should be 'facts' mentioned like:

1) dont use any modulated quantization with b-frames
2) vhq doesn't work with GMC

[philtre]

thanks for your comment, bond.

It's what i was looking for. Not really a "definitive guide" for encoding with xvid, but rather an overview of (un)resolved issues.

Although some rough guide on what settings work best in most cases would be appreciated. It doesn't have to turn into a flame war (but that's conditioned by the maturity of users anyway),
more like a "share your experience" type of thing.

I'm not going to sue anyone for ruining my encodes, either :)

philtre

[Gazza]

Originally posted by bond
i like the idea of a "weekly digest"

perhaps there also should be 'facts' mentioned like:

1) dont use any modulated quantization with b-frames
2) vhq doesn't work with GMC

Just a suggestion but maybe these details could be added as an extra tab in for each version of xvid? Then it would be easy to check what the enhancements, dangers and pitfalls are for any specific version of xvid?

[bond]

Some more points:

1) dont use modulated quantization in first pass
2) dont use modulated with b-frames
3) lumi masking, qpel and chroma motion always in both passes
4) dont use packed bitstream
5) vhq doesn't work with GMC
6) ~ h.263 is good for 1cd rips; mpeg for 2cd rips (use always the same in both passes)
7) for the rest the "default settings" are the best...

[Animaniac]

Originally posted by bond

4) dont use packed bitstream


? Why not? It's worked fine for me...

[drebel]

If you're interested in a guide with all the new set of advanced features in XviD, you could try this :it's fully updated,based on Koepi's first guide and modified by Nitrogen and contains details about GMC, QPEL,B-FRAMES( & threshold),chroma motion and optimization,custom matrices ,Nic 's decoder etc.

http://drebel.topcities.com/xvid_options_explained(Drebel).doc

Grab it was usual with save ...as or using a download manager
Hope you find it useful ;)

regards,
george

[Valky]

Originally posted by bond
Some more points:

1) dont use modulated quantization in first pass
2) dont use modulated with b-frames
3) lumi masking, qpel and chroma motion always in both passes
4) dont use packed bitstream
5) vhq doesn't work with GMC
6) ~ h.263 is good for 1cd rips; mpeg for 2cd rips (use always the same in both passes)
7) for the rest the "default settings" are the best...

use b-frames with both passes?
don't use alt curve system?

[diji1]

This weekly digest thingie should also provide infomation about options concerning the likelihood of maintaining compatibility in future versions etc.

[lighty]

Originally posted by drebel
If you're interested in a guide with all the new set of advanced features in XviD, you could try this :it's fully updated,based on Koepi's first guide and modified by Nitrogen and contains details about GMC, QPEL,B-FRAMES( & threshold),chroma motion and optimization,custom matrices ,Nic 's decoder etc.

Grab it was usual with save ...as or using a download manager
Hope you find it useful ;)


Good work indeed. Thx! It's very readable and understandable. :)

[JagPanzer]

Drebel, tnx! It is very well written, and pretty easy to understand. Thanks once again!!

[Defiler]

Originally posted by bond
Some more points:
1) dont use modulated quantization in first passWhy? Shouldn't it always be MPEG when you set the first pass to Modulated? I've done dozens of rips like this that turned out fine..

[bond]

Originally posted by Defiler
Why? Shouldn't it always be MPEG when you set the first pass to Modulated? I've done dozens of rips like this that turned out fine.. Right, so why setting modulated in first pass if you know that it always turns out in mpeg...

and what about some newbies who maybe could think that modulated in first pass would mean something like a middle between h263 and mpeg or something similar...

all in all modulated is an option for the second pass...

Originally posted by Animaniac
? Why not (packed bitstream)? It's worked fine for me... Because it is said to be quite unstable!?

Originally posted by Valky
use b-frames with both passes?
don't use alt curve system? yes, yes

[drebel]

Thx for the kind words.:cool:
That gave me one more reason to make the .pdf version of the guide...

You can grab new options explained from here :

http://drebel.topcities.com/xvid_options_explained(Drebel).pdf

as usual with "save as..." or using a dl manager

And the HTML version
http://drebel.topcities.com/Guides/XvidEng.htm

regards,
george

[philtre]

Drebel's guide is not available because the site has exceeded it's bandwidth limit. Can someone mirror it? Maybe even on doom9.net?

[Defiler]

Originally posted by bond
Right, so why setting modulated in first pass if you know that it always turns out in mpeg...Sorry, I should have also included the subsequent thought in my post.. i.e. "What's the problem with having MPEG as the quantizer type for the first pass?" I'd have to search for the thread, but I would bet my shoes that I've seen Koepi give his blessing to that, at least in passing. I tend to use Modulated for both passes because it minimizes the number of times I have to hit the options page. Heh.

[bond]

Originally posted by Defiler
I tend to use Modulated for both passes because it minimizes the number of times I have to hit the options page. Heh. lazy you are :p
there is no problem with that, as long as you know that modulated in first pass is always the same as mpeg in first pass...
but i bet my shoes that only few newbies know that so it is imho necessary to be mentioned

[Defiler]

Originally posted by bond
lazy you are :p
there is no problem with that, as long as you know that modulated in first pass is always the same as mpeg in first pass...
but i bet my shoes that only few newbies know that so it is imho necessary to be mentioned =)
Thanks. I was just making sure there wasn't some negative impact. The "MPEG in first pass" is exactly the effect I was looking for. Heh.

[kilg0r3]

Such a digest should not answer general questions about how to use xvid etc. These can be answered far better in drebel's and iago's excellent documents. It would be even cooler to setup some wiki based pages like those of avisynth.org.

Anyway, the digest should contain information that is relevant to those people who already have read these general introductions and the faq's, i.e. people who know what they are doing.;) And, this comes down to bugs and previously unknown behaviour of the codec, which, if it is to persist would have to be incorporated into the larger docs.

[drebel]

Mirror site :

http://www.xvid-gr.tk/

English,section guides

[Bishep]

drebel, Great Guide!
Thanks. :)

[bond]

@Drebel

great guide!

just one thing:
on "lumi masking" you write that it should be used only in second pass.
koepi changed his mind and now recommends to use it in both passes!!!

[drebel]

The fact is that i have more than 6 months to use lumi because i didn't like the initial result.Also i heard you guys mentioning some probs.If refDivX 's code in Koepi's builds performs better in two passes ,please inform me and i 'll change it ASAP :D
But i think the lumi code in CVS is the old one.