Capturing old and bad tapes

[Karl Beem]

I have a number of vcr tapes, mostly beta, that I'm starting to capture. Unfortunately some of the older and probably most played tapes are very bad. The upper third of the frame is very distorted, with severe ghosting or tearing. Has anyone had such an experience? Is there anything that I can do to improve the capture?

[bpjenn]

You will need a Time Base Corrector (TBC). http://www.videoguys.com/datavid.htm#tbc1000

[Karl Beem]

Originally posted by bpjenn
You will need a Time Base Corrector (TBC). http://www.videoguys.com/datavid.htm#tbc1000

Yikes! Even the rentals are expensive. Is there an inexpensive device?

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

you didn't said what's your problem:
you can't capture or you want to
improve image quality on postprocess.....
if you can't capture ok,state your hardware
and software you use...
if you want to improve image quality,send
some screnshots...(probably better
to your web space or so...
mods here are pretty hard on attaching images...)

for clearing the image i think you
want to prefer PC software solutions....
hardware devices that do this are stuff
of pro broadcast tech and you can't buy them
(too expensive...)
upper third of frame distorted?
is that beta privilege?
(hehe just kidding)
is it distorted when watched on tv too?
sounds like poor horiz. sync
somewhere along the way...

[Karl Beem]

The distortion is not visible on my TV, but it is on my monitor. With one tape it does not appear on my monitor until I start the capture process. It ends up in my capture file and is also recorded by my vhs.

I haven't got a web page.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>state your hardware
and software you use...


see this?


also...send me some screenshots (if you want)
i just registered 2 freeweb spaces so
there's a place....
problem seems interesting.......
last time i saw ". The upper third of the frame is very distorted, "
was many.many years ago when i watched some
vcr and the tv wasn't on the channel that's
supposed to be used for watching vcr (usually "0")....
it is essential that we know your hardware
and software specs...(all info that you can provide)..

also...can it be macrovision?
it distorts too......
(if it's original tape or copy of original macrovision protected
tape...hmmm did beta used this at all....did beta made to rentals
at all?)

[jggimi]

Yes, there were Beta home video sales and rentals, and yes, MacroVision was used for copy protection on many of them.

[Karl Beem]

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
>state your hardware
and software you use...


see this?


also...send me some screenshots (if you want)
i just registered 2 freeweb spaces so
there's a place....
also...can it be macrovision?
it distorts too......
(if it's original tape or copy of original macrovision protected
tape...hmmm did beta used this at all....did beta made to rentals
at all?)

Hardware : ATI AiW 7500
Software : AVI_IO and MMC 7.7

The tapes are OTA recordings from 1986-92. It does look like macrovision, but the problem does not go away when I install the ATI mv patch. Where can I upload a screen shot?

[Karl Beem]

Also, the problem occurs with just a few tapes of this era.

[jggimi]

You can upload a screenshot here, when you reply, look for the "attach file" section between the "options" section and the button to submit your reply. Then one of us mods will authorize it so you and others can see it.

[Karl Beem]

There is no "attach file" section. In the Forum Rules, it says I may not post attachments.

:confused:

[jggimi]

The forum rules state:A note about attachments: Each attachment has to be validated by a moderator to ensure no unwanted content is being posted. Therefore your attachments won't be visible immediately after you upload, but only after a moderator has checked them which can take some time.That's not the same thing as "may not post."

But if you're not seeing a place to attach a file, then perhaps attachments are still temporarily disabled. There were problems with atachments last week, but I thought that the problem had been resolved already.

If you see no place to attach a file -- it should be just above the buttons labelled Submit Reply and Preview Reply -- then PM me and I'll send you an e-mail address, and post it for you.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

i THINK i have heard somewhere,sometime,that AIW
is easy on the macrovision trigger,so it can detect macrovision
even when there's none...(i call that advanced!LOL!)
it probably mistakes noise for a macrovision pulses....

send images to
<kosta_@net.hr>
and i'll see that they get uploaded somewhere....

[jggimi]

Attachments are still, or again, broken. Unlike Karl, I do have an attachment section in replies and new threads, but I'm unable to uplaod anything.

Here's <link removed> to Karl's image, that will be there only for the next 3 days or so.

It is confirmed that attachments are still broken, and disabled.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

in the upper portion of the image
one field has big offset to the right...

obviusly,AIW didn't got the hsync timing
for that field the way it should....
(in the portion where the field begins..)

what can you do?
you said only some tapes have such problems,
so it's probably tape wear and tear...
(if this was VHS problem i would check
the lower part of the tape...the one it is scanned
first...i would probably see it's pretty
damaged....)
i must admit i would have a try with my bt8x8
to see if it can catch hsync better than ati...
i recommend to you the same;if you have a friend
(or can contact someone near you with bt card)
see if he can do it better....
or if you have another beta machine (or can borrow one..)
try that also....
(although this system is now in a "beta" place...heheh)

why you get "preview"(image ok while NOT capturing) ok?
probably because card sends just one field
to the screen (same as bt)
i say probably because i don't have AIW no more...


another idea is to use some device to stabilise the image
(i've heard sony dv cameras have some TBC circuits built in..
sure the camera needs that DV-in function unlocked etc.)
using tv as a pass through probbaly wont help...
(as you would need signal when it's send to the screen,
only then it's stabilised...not before...electronics knowldge to build
rgb->composite converter is needed...)
but you can try it...it wont hurt....
making an analog copy (to vhs or beta) will destroy the quality...

thanks for the screnshot...it goes to "capturign anomalies hall fo fame"....hehe


/ivo

[Karl Beem]

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
another idea is to use some device to stabilise the image
(i've heard sony dv cameras have some TBC circuits built in..
sure the camera needs that DV-in function unlocked etc.)

/ivo [/B]

Recording it with my Sony DV camcorder does help. I didn't even realize that I could record thru the composite feed. Unfortunately the sound has problems. I could record the audio with my computer while the video was recorded with the camcorder. At least it indicates that a TBC device should help. I found one for $100.

Using DirectShowSource in a AviSynth file allows me to read the DV file with VirtualDub.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

Originally posted by Karl Beem
Recording it with my Sony DV camcorder does help. I didn't even realize that I could record thru the composite feed. Unfortunately the sound has problems. I could record the audio with my computer while the video was recorded with the camcorder. At least it indicates that a TBC device should help. I found one for $100.

Using DirectShowSource in a AviSynth file allows me to read the DV file with VirtualDub.

if TBC helps you all the way,post few lines
to let us know........




you can install DV vfw codec so VDub
can directly open DV avi's....

audio problems?
if you got image OK,then you can capture sound afterwards and mux it with video (VDub will do...)

[Karl Beem]

Originally posted by ^^-+I4004+-^^
if TBC helps you all the way,post few lines
to let us know........




you can install DV vfw codec so VDub
can directly open DV avi's....

audio problems?
if you got image OK,then you can capture sound afterwards and mux it with video (VDub will do...)

The MainConcept Demo DV codec does not use a watermark when you simply use it for decoding - and it's VFW.

I'll try one tape recording the video on the camera and both on the computer. I'll probably get a TBC later.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

Originally posted by Karl Beem
The MainConcept Demo DV codec does not use a watermark when you simply use it for decoding - and it's VFW.


if it works,why are you doing it this way?
>Using DirectShowSource in a AviSynth file allows me to read the DV file with VirtualDub.

or you wanted to say that as of now you're using MC and
direct VDub reading?
or you're using avs for faster processing?

but...who cares........
do what gives you best image quality

[Karl Beem]

Well, I've done one. The DivX compression kept crashing when I used AviSource and MainConcept DV. Since DirectShowSourfce didn't give me sound, the simplest thing was to recompress Dv -> PicVideo MJPEG. This worked and DivX had no trouble with it. The tape which originally wasn't too bad is now horrible. I had nearly 4000 dropped frames when I captured it just to get the audio with AVI_IO. Surprisingly it is in perfect sync with the DV video.

[yg1968]

Some S-VHS recorders have a TBC. I believe that DV camcorders have a TBC built-in but I am not sure if it gets triggered when using the video in. I believe that it does. But nobody has really confirmed this when I asked the question:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48138

You will get sound in vdub if you use a type 2 DV avi file. You can use DVIO or DVapp to capture in type 2 DV. You also need a vfw DV codec such as the Sony or Panasonic DV codec (which don't watermark).

[fasttimes]

Originally posted by Karl Beem
Yikes! Even the rentals are expensive. Is there an inexpensive device?

The cheapest true TBC that I know if is $180 from http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt-8710.htm

Also comes with a digital comb filtering for the composite input! This is great, if you cap TV-- Send a VCR video out to the unit, then feed S-video from the TBC to the cap card. Personally, I don't know how I got along without one!

[JReiginsei]

Hey fasttimes, what about this device Sima SCC, http://www.videoguys.com/sima.htm . Do you know if its as good as the previous TBC you mentioned? Is this one a true TBC? It's $99 which is almost half the price of the AVT-8710!

[fccHandler]

Originally posted by JReiginsei
what about this device Sima SCC, http://www.videoguys.com/sima.htm .
Hey, I have one of those. It does defeat macrovision, but it does not do timebase correction.