Matrix mixer (allows to upmix stereo movies to multichannel at playback time)

[Valex]

I've started a new project that allows simple stereo to multichannel upmix for any stereo source. I need your opinions about this thing...

http://matrix-mixer.sourceforge.net (homepage)
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/matrix-mixer/matrix_mixer_0_1a.exe?download (direct download)

[ookzDVD]

Wow... nice filter,
It's just like the http://www.trombettworks.com/directshow.php

Can't wait to test it :)

Edit: I think there is a problem while playing vorbis files,
I use the "ancient" Tobias's OggDS 0.9.9.5, and the MPC 6.4.3.5. is stopped.

[frank]

The start of a software DPL2 decoder? :):):)
I'm very pleased Alexander, and I think you should direct your development in that direction.

[ohliuv]

mmm, what's the difference between the matrix-mixer and the Moonlight Odio Dekoda (http://www.moonlight.co.il/products_pc8.htm)?

[Valex]

@ohliuv
Odio Decoda is a decoder, MatrixMixer is a mixer (obviously :) )

@frank
Yes, but it is a very first step...

@ookzDVD
Can you send me a little part of this file? (~500K-1M)

[ohliuv]

it's a very nice filter :)

made a couple of tests of the 2ch->5.1ch upmix using avi-s with mp3 VBR soundtrack. the ones encoded at 128kbps (DSPguru preset of BeSweetGUI)sound very good to me. havent checked higher bitrates yet, but should be even better.
I also checked another one at 96kbps (downmixed from ac3 most probably by GraphEdit and iviaudio). it is still OK, hoever there is slight noice and crackling from the C, SR, and SL speakers - just slight, and only from time to time. Pretty nice for a 96kbps mp3 :)

I remember DSPguru recommending to encode mp3s at 160+ in order to preserve the surround information in the audio. Can you recommend BeSweet settings for better upmix 2ch->5.1 during playback?

[mikeson]

@ohliuv:

lame --alt-preset standard or Ogg Vorbis at -q 0.6 should be enough...

[tiki4]

Who is encoding MP3 without --alt-preset standard nowadays??? :D

O.K.,

did anyone test yet a file that was encoded with -s surround2 in BeSweet? I will do it myself these days but unfortunately I don't have very much time at the moment.

The question is if the surround image get's reproduced correctly for example in an action movie where a bullet flies from the left to the right (or vice versa).

Regards,

tiki4

[arty]

I tried the matrixmixer with a movie containing 128kbit mp3(fast&furious) & it works perfectly! I used it with an nforce2 motherboard/DD51 encoding and the sound was really good! Much better than the usual mp3-PCM-spdif-DPL_decode via amp mode!

Valex, thank you very much !

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by Valex

@ookzDVD
Can you send me a little part of this file? (~500K-1M) [/B]

Ok, I just mail you the file. :)

[ChristianHJW]

/me is looking forward to be able to play DPL2 encoded stereo tracks on his PC, encoded with MPC at 180 - 190 kbps, with nice and clean surround sound coming out of his surround system :D .... reminds me i finally have to buy a new soundcard now ...

[arty]

mp2 does not work. when I try to play an mpeg, no sound at all! Tried on 2 computers, no success.

[Azzjw]

Excellent filter - love the sound difference.
Is it possible to have the option for stereo for FL & FR matched with the Same Stereo source for RR & RL.
This will effectively give me Music in 2 locations using my receiver & speakers and also create a better amplified environment when in the same room.
Also, how hard is it to implement Stereo to AC3 realtime encoding with the functionality similar to this Matrix mixer. I would love the capability of the NForce2 Sound system without having to buy the actual motherboard.
Ive noticed there is a realtime encoder on sourceforge, but it is at an early stage.
Anyway keep up the good work!
Azz

[arty]

azzjw: could you link that ac3 encoder page (on sourceforge.net) ?

I couldn't find it.

[Azzjw]

This is it arty http://sourceforge.net/projects/ac3encode
Cheers.

[arty]

Thank you :)

[DIggedy]

Nice!
Is there or will there be a way to write the output to 6x mono wavs for use in encoding to ac3/dts?
Keep up the great work!

[mikeson]

@DIggedy:
Is there or will there be a way to write the output to 6x mono wavs for use in encoding to ac3/dts?
It is already here IMHO. BeSweet does it, doesn't it? ;)

[Rrrough]

@Valex:

great development, you rock!

cheers

[DIggedy]

BeSweet does it, doesn't it?

I'm talking about taking a stereo file, applying DPLII encoding to create the 6 channels and then outputting the result as 6 mono wavs (basically an automated stereo>5.1 conversion) that can be used for encoding to other formats. Correct me if I'm wrong (DSP Guru?) but I'm pretty sure Besweet doesn't do this.

[mikeson]

@DIggedy:
I'm talking about taking a stereo file, applying DPLII encoding to create the 6 channels
You mean decoding, don't you?
then outputting the result as 6 mono wavs (basically an automated stereo>5.1 conversion) that can be used for encoding to other formats
Why would you do that? AC3->Stereo(mp3,ogg vorbis)->back again to something like AC3? Why just don'n keep original AC3, you'll lose some information this way for sure...

[Valex]

Did some bugfixing:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/matrix-mixer/matrix_mixer_0_21a.exe?download

@ookzDVD
Now it should work with .ogg files.


@DIggedy
The goal of this thins is _online_ audio processing. It is not intended for offline wave conversion, much better to do it in some audio editor (read http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29277 thread). But if you're familiar with Graphedit program you can create one multichannel .wav file...

[Giga]

Matrix mixer sounds exactly same as CMSS on my soundblaster live 5.1 so I don't know why should I use it.

[tiki4]

Bah. I still have to test more. I'm still searching my DVDs to find something suitable. I've got an Audigy and I also like to compare against CMSS. I think the algorithm can't be taht much different because there is only a fixed number of ways to do the 2ch -> 6ch mapping I think.

I briefly tested the new version with Vorbis -q=0.6. So far it seems to work quite well. I have some playback issues but maybe that's due to my completely fragmented hard drive.

Cheers,

tiki4

[arty]

Valex: wow! it now works well with MP2 aswell! Thank you!

[Palikrovol]

Originally posted by tiki4
Bah. I still have to test more. I'm still searching my DVDs to find something suitable. I've got an Audigy and I also like to compare against CMSS. I think the algorithm can't be taht much different because there is only a fixed number of ways to do the 2ch -> 6ch mapping I think.

tiki4

Hi.

I have also and audigy and i have never used CMSS. how and where can i set it up?

I haven't tested the 0.21b yet, but is good to know that it works with ogg vorbis :)

[Giga]

CMSS can be enabled in creative play center. Click on the arrow on the left of the eax symbol. Then click on CMSS.

[ookzDVD]

Yes, CMSS is configurable from the EAX control panel,
you have to download the EAX control panel from the Creative.

Btw, anyone use Cambridge DT3500 5.1 speakers systems?
It has CMSS prosessor build-in on the hardware (receiver) :)

[Chibi Jasmin]

Does enabling/disabling/configuring CMSS on SB Live 5.1 really work?

I am asking, because with the regular (latest) 252 drivers for the live 5.1 AFAIK I didn't have an option to play with it at all and now using the 324 hacked drivers (audigy2 for live) I have the option in eax console, but checking/unchecking doesn't do a thing...anyone can confirm you can do anything with it with whatever driver on the live 5.1?

At the moment it seems it is on (CMSS1, not CMSS2) for normal stereo (like playing mp3 in winamp), as front speakers seems doubled on rear speakers, nothing on center. Off for multichannel stuff...can anyone disable/configure this? Or even use CMSS2 (virtual 5.1 surround from stereo) on the live maybe?

[ookzDVD]

Originally posted by Chibi Jasmin
[B]Does enabling/disabling/configuring CMSS on SB Live 5.1 really work?

Yes. It's working, at least on my system :)
Even I prefer to switch off and use the DTT3500 hardware CMSS.

I'm using Audigy+DTT3500 with latest official Audigy WDM driver.

[Giga]

for Chibi Jasmin - ceter¨always works when is CMSS enabled!

[Palikrovol]

Originally posted by ookzDVD
Yes, CMSS is configurable from the EAX control panel,
you have to download the EAX control panel from the Creative.

Btw, anyone use Cambridge DT3500 5.1 speakers systems?
It has CMSS prosessor build-in on the hardware (receiver) :)

Hi.

I have found the CMSS in the Creative play center (i don't like it, so i would like not to install it). But i haven't found it in the eax control panel (where can i find the last eax control panel version?, i couldn't in the creative web page)

Thanx in advance

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by Giga
for Chibi Jasmin - ceter¨always works when is CMSS enabled!

AFAIK there is 2 versions of CMSS

CMSS and CMSS2

CMSS is only copying (with a little lower volume) the front speakers to the rear ones. This should be available for all live/audigy(2) cards. (although I still don't know how to turn it off).

CMSS2 is virtual 5.1 surround from stereo source (thereby using center). This is not offical for live cards, but some people say, they got it to work...I still can't...any help appreciated.

[Giga]

CMMS is defaultly turned off - it makes 5.1, when it is off the front channels are only copied to rear channels.
On SB Live CMMS do this(I think): center=0.5left+0.5right
rear=-0.5left+0.5right
Better versions of CMSS are aviable on Audigy or Audigy2

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by Giga
CMMS is defaultly turned off - it makes 5.1, when it is off the front channels are only copied to rear channels.
On SB Live CMMS do this(I think): center=0.5left+0.5right
rear=-0.5left+0.5right
Better versions of CMSS are aviable on Audigy or Audigy2

Thanx...

leaves me with two questions...

1. Can I use the better CMSS on the live, when using audigy2 drivers?
2. How to enable CMSS on the live, when using audigy2 drivers / live drivers? With 324 audigy 2 drivers I have the checkbox, but it doesn't stick enabled. But maybe it's because of the drivers not being made for the live card.

[Giga]

Audigy2 drivers on SB Live? How can I do this?

[arty]

make a new thread.. this is MATRIXFILTER's !!!!! :(

[Tri]

Would it be possible to add 24 bit input support?

[aryan]

@Valex:
I think that ds filter rocks!
I've tried it with my mp3's in bsPlayer and it works great with my AC97 based 5.1 sound!
I'm waiting for auto gain control enabled - then everything will be ok.
And if I'm not too insolent, I hope You can implement it for winamp etc. :) Pls. tell me if have such plans, or if there is another solution to implement existinf matrix-mixer there.

Also, I didnt find a way to let matrix-mixer work with RadLight ... any ideas?

However thats another great job from You Valex - give it more of Your precious time if its possible.
And all I can say is - just keep the good work!

[Gforce_Ti]

@Valex

It's a nice filter and it rocks!!! :)
Good work!! :D

[Belgarath406]

Valex,

I hope you are the one to ask this, if not, my appologies.

I have a small annoying problem with Matrix-Mixer.

I found that with some 2-channel movies the mixer upmixes sound to all 5.1 channels correctly, but with other movies it does not upmix to the surround-left and right channels.
This happens even though in both situations the ratios displayed in the upmix-matrix for each channel is the same.

The "mixer", "voice" and "expand stereo" are enabled.

Is there a solution?

Thanks, Belgarath

[bond]

valex released a new version of matrix mixer, which now also includes all additional options the ac3filter had (time shifting, etc...) for use with other audio codecs like vorbis, acc too

seems that my bugging helped ;)