BeSure/BeSweet AC3 2.0 -> CDDA problems

[eXistenZ_69]

Hello everyone,
I've been experimenting the last few days with getting an audio cd from a dvd of a concert. These are the steps I followed:

1) Rip the AC3 2.0 track from the dvd with DVD Decrypter (version 3.1.4.0)
2) Use BeSure (version 1.2) with BeSweet (versions 1.4 and 1.5b16) to transform the AC3 to plain stereo wav. Used options in BeSure: Normalize (checked), CDDA (selected), default values for azid (-L -3db -g max) & ssrc (--rate 44100)

Here are the problems I encountered:

1) First, I tried the stable BeSweet 1.4 release. The resulting wav file had a loud "click" at the start of the file. The log file lists a lot of downmix overflows. Read about those in another thread, but still don't know what the impact is on the result. But I guess those aren't good news... :(

2) Then I tried BeSweet 1.5b16. The "click" isn't there this time. But the log again shows lots of downmix overflows :mad:

3) Finally, I tried the AC3 5.1 track with BeSweet 1.4. The resulting wav is flawless. No "click" and no overflows occur. But I read that it's better to use the 2.0 track when making an audio cd since the bitrate per channel is higher and no downmixing of channels has to be done.

So I hope someone can help me find the cause of the problem. The logs are in the appendix. The order of the logs is 3) then 1) then 2). BTW. third log is cut-off, because encoding ended prematurely because of lack of disk space (although BeSure says encoding finished successfully :confused: ).

One other thing, BeSweet 1.5b16 doesn't seem to do the first pass for finding the maximum gain anymore??

Thanks in advance,

eXistenZ_69

[eXistenZ_69]

BeSweet v1.4 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using Shibatch.dll v0.2 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).

Logging start : 03/05/03 , 23:33:31.

C:\Audio\BeSweetv1.4\BeSweet.exe -core( -input E:\CLOUSEAU_SPORTPALEIS_2002\VIDEO_TS\VTS_06_1 - 0x81 - Audio - AC3 - 6ch - 48kHz - DRC - Nederlands - DELAY -79ms.ac3 -output E:\temp\CDDA-Track-001.wav -2ch -logfilea E:\BeSure.txt ) -azid( -g max -L -3db ) ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : E:\CLOUSEAU_SPORTPALEIS_2002\VIDEO_TS\VTS_06_1 - 0x81 - Audio - AC3 - 6ch - 48kHz - DRC - Nederlands - DELAY -79ms.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: E:\temp\CDDA-Track-001.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 3/2, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 3.359dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -3.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] +------ Shibatch -----
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Dest. Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Attenuation : 0.0db
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[01:48:09:984] Conversion Completed !
[01:48:09:984] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 87kbps
[00:22:05:000] <-- Transcoding Duration
Logging ends : 03/05/03 , 23:55:37.

[eXistenZ_69]

BeSweet v1.4 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using Shibatch.dll v0.2 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).

Logging start : 03/11/03 , 22:02:38.

C:\Audio\BeSweetv1.4\BeSweet.exe -core( -input E:\CLOUSEAU_SPORTPALEIS_2002\VIDEO_TS\VTS_06_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - Nederlands - DELAY -79ms.ac3 -output E:\temp\CDDA-Track-001.wav -2ch -logfilea E:\BeSure.txt ) -azid( -g max -L -3db ) ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : E:\CLOUSEAU_SPORTPALEIS_2002\VIDEO_TS\VTS_06_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - Nederlands - DELAY -79ms.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: E:\temp\CDDA-Track-001.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 2/0, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.000dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -3.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] +------ Shibatch -----
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Dest. Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Attenuation : 0.0db
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:00:00.000] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +60.2dB)
[00:00:11.413] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:11.626] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:11.781] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:11.856] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:11.925] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:11.946] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)

... (cut because way too long)

[01:47:48.544] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:47:49.093] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:47:49.269] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[01:47:49.354] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:47:50.794] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.5dB)
[01:47:51.605] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:47:52.853] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:47:53.168] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.7dB)
[01:47:53.482] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.3dB)
[01:47:55.760] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[01:47:56.629] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:47:57.157] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:47:58.208] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:48:00.560] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:48:09.888] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +66.1dB)
[01:48:09.893] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +66.1dB)
[01:48:09.898] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +60.1dB)
[01:48:09.904] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +66.1dB)
[01:48:09.909] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +66.1dB)
[01:48:09.925] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +60.2dB)
[01:48:09.930] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +60.2dB)
[01:48:09.952] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +60.2dB)
[01:48:09.957] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +60.1dB)
[01:48:09.962] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +65.9dB)
[01:48:09.968] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +66.5dB)
[01:48:09.973] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +60.2dB)
[01:48:09.978] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +60.2dB)
[01:48:09:984] Conversion Completed !
[01:48:09:984] Actual Avg. Bitrate : 87kbps
[00:18:01:000] <-- Transcoding Duration
Logging ends : 03/11/03 , 22:20:39.

[eXistenZ_69]

BeSweet v1.5b16 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.8 (b825) by Midas (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using Shibatch.dll v0.24 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).

Logging start : 03/11/03 , 22:32:01.

C:\Audio\BeSweetv1.5b16\BeSweet.exe -core( -input E:\CLOUSEAU_SPORTPALEIS_2002\VIDEO_TS\VTS_06_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - Nederlands - DELAY -79ms.ac3 -output E:\temp\CDDA-Track-002.wav -2ch -logfilea E:\BeSure.txt ) -azid( -g max -L -3db ) ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 )

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : E:\CLOUSEAU_SPORTPALEIS_2002\VIDEO_TS\VTS_06_1 - 0x80 - Audio - AC3 - 2ch - 48kHz - DRC - Nederlands - DELAY -79ms.ac3
[00:00:00:000] | Output: E:\temp\CDDA-Track-002.wav
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------
[00:00:00:000] | Input Channels Mode: 2/0, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] | Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] | Total Gain: 0.000dB, Compression: None
[00:00:00:000] | LFE levels: To LR -3.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] | Center mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] | Dialog normalization: No
[00:00:00:000] | Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] +------ Shibatch -----
[00:00:00:000] | Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Dest. Sample-Rate: 44.1KHz
[00:00:00:000] | Attenuation : 0.0db
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:00:11.413] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:11.626] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:11.781] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:11.856] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:11.925] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:11.946] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:12.005] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.106] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.165] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.373] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.437] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:12.442] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.512] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.624] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.640] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:12.826] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:12.853] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:13.509] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:13.605] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:24.853] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[00:00:24.869] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:25.013] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[00:00:25.018] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[00:00:25.029] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[00:00:25.072] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[00:00:25.104] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[00:00:25.162] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)

... (cut because way too long)

[01:24:08.725] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:24:08.736] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:24:08.741] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:08.794] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:08.906] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:09.002] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:24:09.050] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:09.077] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.2dB)
[01:24:09.098] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:09.109] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:09.125] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0.1dB)
[01:24:09.157] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0.1dB)
[01:24:09.216] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0.2dB)
[01:24:09.221] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:24:09.226] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:24:09.237] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0.1dB)
[01:24:09.248] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:09.461] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[01:24:09.466] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[01:24:09.472] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[01:24:09.562] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0dB)
[01:24:09.568] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[01:24:09.600] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)
[01:24:09.626] W7: Downmix overflow (0: +0.1dB)
[01:24:09.658] W7: Downmix overflow (1: +0dB)

[DSPguru]

this overflow bug had already been reported to Midas, author of azid.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40346
(the 3rd issue)

[eXistenZ_69]

Oh I see, did read that post but didn't think it was related. Any idea about the progress of those fixes?

What about the quality impact of those downmix overflows? Should I wait till the bug has been fixed? Or should I just use the AC3 5.1 track that doesn't have any issues?

What is the cause of the "click" in BeSweet 1.4? Just curious :)

[VidHack]

I believe the problem may be with :

"1) Rip the AC3 2.0 track from the dvd with DVD Decrypter (version 3.1.4.0)"

Please try to rip it with smartripper, there is some messages in the ripping forums of the header getting corrupt. Good Luck.

VidHack

[DJ Bobo]

That should be a bug?! I'm surprised, I deal with tons of those 2.0 AC3s, I have yet to see overflows (on good authored DVDs, on bootlegs it comes once after a while ¬.¬)
I don't think it's a bug, I think it's the DVD author that is dumb ¬.¬

Anyway, the secure way:

azid -N 1.ac3 1.wav

note the peak, and go 1db under that value.
For example, you got -9db peak, use 8db gain, like that:

azid -g8db 1.ac3 1.wav

Burn.

[eXistenZ_69]

@VidHack

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it when I have the time.


@DJ Bobo

I don't get it. What does the authoring have to do with it? Shouldn't the pass for determining the maximum gain be able to handle that too???

What does the commandline you gave do that the default commandline doesn't do? And what's up with the negative gains??? I'm getting more and more confused :confused:

[eXistenZ_69]

You guys still there? It's been a while. :(

There are still some questions left unanswered...

[jarthel]

i bypassed besweet and used azid (azid.exe not azid.dll) instead and my downmix problems are gone. :)

If you read the link posted by DSPGuru, it seems the downmix problem only occurs in the DLL version.

jayel

[eXistenZ_69]

@jarthel

Thanks for the reply. I tried what you suggested, but the result is still the same: lots of downmix overflows.

[jarthel]

good luck then. :)

Jayel

ps. maybe you're using an old version of azid.exe?

[dblmask]

why are you using azid ( -3db ) with a 2.0 AC3.0.... isn't it for 5.1 AC3 ??

[eXistenZ_69]

@jarthel

I used Azid v1.8, which is the latest I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.


@dblmask

That is one of the default settings of BeSure. But since there is no LFE channel this isn't used.
When I tried downmixing using only the azid.exe file like jarthel suggested I just used:

azid input.ac3 output.wav

(also tried with the -a option to determine the maximum gain)