AVI and Ogg Vorbis

[bullfrog]

How I can mux audio Ogg Vorbis (created with OggMachine) with DivX video in the AVI container?

Thanks.

[Neo Neko]

I know several ways how but it is a bad thing and will create nothing but problems. Because Vorbis is a VBR codec it can not be used in AVI propperly. You are gonna have to use the OGG container for now if you want to use vorbis. Others are in the pipeline. But AVI is not an option.

[bullfrog]

MP3 VBR is also a VBR and i do without problems AVIs with DivX+MP3 VBR with Gordian Knot...:(

[bond]

like Neo Neko already said vorbis in avi doesnt really work! you have to use the .ogm container!

try virtualdubmod -> ogm

[roman]

If the .ogm extension confuses some users (also some videoplayer programs), simple try to change it into .avi ;)
If you have OggDS installed, common user (and common videoplayer) can't feel the trick :p

[Neo Neko]

:angry:If you do change the extension in that way make sure it is only temporary and that you have it saved and sharred with the propper name. Otherwise you are not safe while you sleep as I will be tracking you down to do something terrible.:angry: :devil:

@Bullfrog
VBR MP3 in AVI is only slightly less hit or miss than Vorbis in AVI. In otherwords if you want to try avoding living with regret don't do it. VBR MP3 is problematic in many cases.

[Blankman]

Originally posted by roman
If the .ogm extension confuses some users (also some videoplayer programs), simple try to change it into .avi ;)
If you have OggDS installed, common user (and common videoplayer) can't feel the trick :p

I can not believe what I'm reading! Line them up, shoot them, and get yourself a new group of users! Just kidding!

Changing the extension would also create confusion. But I've seen people include the codec in the filename. For example:

aNiceMovie.Divx5.Vorbis.OGM

And let the users change the the extension (if needed).

[Selur]

There's also an old ogg vorbis acm codec out there, but like the rest I would not recommend to but vorbis into an avi, but if you have to try it and see for yourself.

Cu Selur

Ps.: just use google and search for 'ogg vorbis acm'

[Suiryc]

Originally posted by bullfrog
MP3 VBR is also a VBR and i do without problems AVIs with DivX+MP3 VBR with Gordian Knot...:(
Unfortunately MP3 and Ogg Vorbis aren't the same at all.

As you know the AVI container was meant to contain CBR audio.

The fact MP3 VBR works correctly is because the muxer (Nandub or VirtualDubMod, maybe there are other tools that do so too) assume that the file will be read (during playback) in a certain way.
This trick currently works because the AVI file is read this way when opening it in DirectShow (i.e. when using Windows Media Player or any other player relying on DirectShow). But there are other ways to read an AVI file and some of them aren't compatible at all with the trick used to put VBR audio in AVI. That's why we consider that VBR audio in AVI is not really a good idea.
However this trick require something : each chunk you fill in the AVI file must contain the exact same amount of samples. This is the case for an MP3 stream : data are splitted in audio frames that contains the same amount of samples (1152 for MPEG1-Layer3).

Now why Ogg Vorbis in AVI would be an even worse idea ? Because an Ogg Vorbis file split data in Packets which doesn't necessarily contains the same amount of samples (you generally find 64, 128, 256, 512 or 1024 samples). This will introduce audio/video out-of-sync that you _cannot_ prevent.
Only a container that can handle VBR data (e.g. OGM, and the upcoming MCF / Matroska) will be able to keep audio/video synch during playback.

[Alxemi]

How I can mux audio Ogg Vorbis (created with OggMachine) with DivX video in the AVI container?

but... WHY?????

[roman]

To Neo Neko, Blankman, etc.

Yea, see on their tension!!!

:devil: !!!

Wow!!! :D

Gentlemen, the world is that it is.
There is a kind of human called "Common PC user". Such human knows that avi-file is video, and he installs so called "codecs pack" to avoid problems with palybacking. When such problems nevertheless happens, he lookups new version of his lovely "codecs pack", or changes his favour to another "codecs pack". He doesn't know anything about XviD ("what is this sh|t???") about ffdshow ("what for that another one???"), etc.
When such human view on the ogm-file he think: "What is the filetype? What it stores? Let me dbl-click on it!"
And what he see? (Below I mean Windows box) "Cannot find application matching this kind of files, please select manually from ...", next he see a huge list of all applications and document types.
Sh|t! - says to me. What you have given for me??? (Note he has OggDS installed)

Other side. I often take from somewhere some avi (true avi, not ogm or some else!), start it and player says to me - unknown video (or audio) codec. Start to clear up, find that I simple haven't XviD-decompressor, or AC3, or some else. This is often happened situation, yes! So what problem to make ogm-file with avi extension? Common user couldn't find difference (and it not need for him), more advanced looks on file info in player and clears up all questions about all used codecs.

>>Changing the extension would also create confusion.
But for who? And what kind of confusion?

>>But I've seen people include the codec in the filename.
It is good idea! But I haven't seen such people.

[Zenitram]

Originally posted by roman
This is often happened situation, yes! So what problem to make ogm-file with avi extension? Common user couldn't find difference (and it not need for him), more advanced looks on file info in player and clears up all questions about all used codecs.


If we do that, we can change extensions like :
MP3 into WAV
OGG into MP3
AC3 into WAV
DTS into WAV
WMV into AVI
and so on...

after this, it would a *ù$^*ù$^ of extension problem, because you will not know why this WAV file doesn't work (oh! it was a OGM file, and WMP9 doesn't like OGM)

Even MS changed his video extension (AVI, ASF, and now WMV), to make distinction.

People with OGM files must install DS filter, they will know how to associate OGM files with their player ("open with...")

[roman]

Originally posted by Zenitram
If we do that, we can change extensions like :
MP3 into WAV
OGG into MP3
AC3 into WAV
DTS into WAV
WMV into AVI
and so on...


No, we can not.
When file extension confuses player about file content, forcing him to choose invalid decompressor - it's practical mistake. But when don't? And, in addition, right, but unfamiliar extention confuses some widespread kind of human called "Common PC user" (as I note higher)?

It isn't all possible. Say, Ogg renamed to mp3 cannot be played
I know that more-less secure to rename mp3 stream in wav container to mp3 extention. And, nothing happens when ogm extension to replace by avi :)


(oh! it was a OGM file, and WMP9 doesn't like OGM)
Have I right understood: OGM file cannot be playbacked by WMP9? Even if OggDS has been installed? I know nothing about it (I don't use WMPs - LightAlloy forever! :) ).

People with OGM files must install DS filter, they will know how to associate OGM files with their player ("open with...")

Far not all people :(

[Zenitram]

Originally posted by roman
When file extension confuses player about file content, forcing him to choose invalid decompressor - it's practical mistake.

It's the same thing for OGM renamed in AVI : you are lucky WMP accept this, but nobody can say it will work on Linux or Mac!
And for exemple VirtualDub (not Mod) doesn't know to parse OGM file, if you rename it AVI, user will not understand why his "avi" file is not opened by VirtualDub. This is not because your are lucky with one software (all players based ont DirectShow) that all softwares know OGM files renamed in AVI...

Originally posted by roman
But when don't? And, in addition, right, but unfamiliar extention confuses some widespread kind of human called "Common PC user" (as I note higher)?

User must be educated : we have never renamed RM files in AVI, this is not because we can at this moment for your needs that we must :)
Now it will be good for some newbees, but later it will be hell.

Originally posted by roman

Have I right understood: OGM file cannot be playbacked by WMP9? Even if OggDS has been installed? I know nothing about it (I don't use WMPs - LightAlloy forever! :) ).

It can open it by clicking on file, not by Drag n Drop