Losing Closed Captions with InstantCopy : Jacob's Ladder

[jackburton]

Hello all. Curious thing I found here. I just backed up Jacob's Ladder with IC and I noticd that the Closed Captioning was either "removed" or simply does not work anymore. Well, "removed" is really the wrong word I guess, then again, since they are carried in the MPEG2 video stream, they must have been filtered out during the transcoding process. Whatever the case, the CCs will not display on any TV (yes, the TVs do have a CC decoder) or when using PDVD, which also has the ability to decode the captions. Of course, the original disc shows the captions in both cases.

Jacob's Ladder was released on DVD in August 2001. Granted, *most* DVDs these days simply use all Subtitles instead of CCs, but this disc only had Spanish subs as well as the English CCs. Obviously, when transcoding, ripping, etc, if it very easy to select or deselect a sub stream, but with the CCs, there is no option of course. Basically, since they are not a seperate stream like the subs (overlayed graphics), but rather, an actual part of the MPEG2 video stream itself.

So, my question to all of you here. Have you seen this happen before? Anyway around it? Did anyone even notice that it happens? (can't find any posts on it). I looked through my stack of commercial DVDs, and this is the only one I have that has CCs, though most of my discs are newer than this one. Please reply with some info if possible, or ideas, suggestions, etc. Also curious what the makers of InstantCopy have to say: is this a bug? or is this simply just the 'cost of doing business' with no way around it, given the process of transcoding? Whatever the case, it's NOT a big problem, but I would still like to know if this is "normal" and what other people think. I've never used CCE, TMP or DVD2one on a disc with CCs, so I'm also curious how those apps perform in regard to CCs, and if anyone has done it before and knows for sure.

Thanks and have a good night.


JB

[djadjet]

Re-encoding (CCE, TMPG) will ignore Line21 (CC) data, however there are a lot of ways
to extract, convert and include it back during re-authoring, most of them are described
either through guides or you can find them in few threads on this forum that are dealing
with Line21 subject.

As for all-in-one packages DVD2one and DVD95Copy will retain Line21 data,
while IC won't (I did't test others). I don't believe there is a way to keep it with
current IC7 release and would be more than happy if somebody can prove me wrong.
The best way to find this out is to ask Pinnacle directly in their IC7 user forum.

[mrbass]

I noticed in Back to Future II if you didn't check 0x80 and 0x81 both English it wouldn't give you English Subs. I'm going to revert back to recommended you keep all subs unless there is more than 6 or so perhaps then untick some since they only take up about 3MB each. I know you said CC but did you try where you didn't uncheck any of them? Also did you try not removing any user prohibitions?

[djadjet]

To be completely accurate, IC7 will retain Line21 (CC) user data from MPEG2 video stream only if you don’t let it touch the video steam (100% “compression”) no matter what you do or don’t with the other streams (audio and subtitle) from the VTS and/or user prohibitions (this somehow defeats the purpose of transcoding).

If you let it transcode the video it will keep the CC for Line21 flag in the IFO file, but will filter out the actual data from the stream.

If you insist on using IC7 (read, don’t want to spend more money) and definitely want to keep CC, it has to be manually added by re-authoring. Demux the transcoded vob set, prepare Line21 data from original vob set (in scc format), chapter times and all other usual stuff, re-author in DVDMaestro or Scenarist and use IfoUpdate to incorporate re-authored VTS back into DVD structure, as usual.

[lrosado]

I'd have to disagree with that, in my experince all movies I have done with IC7, it still keeps CC on it as long as you keep all language corresponding subtitles. for example on Star Wars II AOTC there are about 3 different english subs. if you only select one or two and not all three then you will lose CC. Thats what happened to me on a few films before i decided to do what MRBASS has always suggested which was to keep all subs but all subs pertaining to the language subtitle stream you want to keep. give it a whirl and you will see i am right.

[djadjet]

I would have to agree & disagree with you. I certainly agree with you and mrbass, that keeping all the subtitle streams will ensure proper subtitle functioning, including forced subtitles, unfortunately IC still filters out Line21 Closed Captioning if video stream is transcoded.

NOTE: CC (Line21 Closed Captioning) that you turn on and off through you TVs built in decoder, NOT subtitle (sometimes also referred as caption) from your DVD subtitle stream, that you turn on/off through your DVD player.