maestro takes too much space

[redbaron2]

Hi,

i authored a season dvd of friends this night (its a flipper) to fit on one dvd-r
that's what i did:
i compressed the original dvd's with dvd2one. it's output was about 4,37 GB, should fit...
now i stripped all languages und subtitles, and of course the video-streams.
authored it in dvd-maestro, just blank pictures as menue, no animation and music, the menue is about 1 MB.
but the created DVD-Image is about 4,40 GB, 30 MB's too large.
where maestro takes that space?
in the subtitles (12 of them)?
any chance to let maestro save this space...
i don't want to compress the dvd anymore, takes too much time this procedere with dvd2one (you have to change the vobid's of the b side vobs, create new ifos, compress, strip the m2v's back)
thanks for reading, and helping ;)

[TRILIGHT]

As is stated in a few of the "full disc" guides, you can expect around a 50-150MB "mux overhead" when compiling your assets to VOB files. As it turned out in your case, it was only 30MB.

[redbaron2]

you don't understand what i mean, i think...

the result from dvd2one is already muxed and is about 4,37 GB
i created the same dvd-image with maestro, plus a small menue (1 mb).
and this is about 4,40 GB. that's the difference. Or differs the muxing overhead from authoring proggy to authoring proggy?

[TRILIGHT]

I understand what you mean. You are just not realizing the difference in the software you're referencing. DVD2ONE is not real authoring software. As such, it just tries to fill the available space for a DVDR disc by compressing stuff. Maestro is real authoring software. As such, it does no internal MPEG work outside of muxing. It supports projects that would fit on a DVD-9 disc (dual layered ~9GB) that would be written to DLT or a master disc for mass production. As I said before, there is a "mux overhead" associated with such compilations from true authoring software like Maestro. DVD2ONE is nothing more than compression software.

[redbaron2]

the original dvd was authored, by which authoring proggy is irrelavant, right? and there is muxing overhead in it, right?
I compressed this dvd with dvd2one, did dvd2one removes muxing overhead? i think not! it just resizes the video-stream.
after authoring exactly the same dvd, (videostreams, audio-streams, subtitles from the compressed dvd2one output) and it is bigger then the dvd2one output.
so maestro seams to produce even more muxing overhead then other authoring proggies, and that's the point!

perhaps my english is not good enough to explain this, but i hope it's understandable now ;)

[TRILIGHT]

I understand perfectly what you're saying. You just don't understand what I am telling you. You are comparing apples and oranges! One is authoring software that muxes audio and video assets. (Maestro) The other is nothing more than compression software (DVD2ONE). As such, Maestro compresses nothing and DVD2ONE authors nothing. Apples and oranges, dude... apples and oranges. ;)

[redbaron2]

last try ;)
i only uses dvd2one to get smaller video-streams, i could use cce for this instead, but its just a friends episodes dvd, no need to have best quality...
the output of dvd2one is a complete muxed and authored dvd (i know that dvd2one only resizes the video-stream and left the other untouched) so in this output there is muxing-overhead. definetly!
it's a working dvd with a smaller video-stream, okay! this is the fault in your comparing "apples and oranges", which i did not!
from this completely authored dvd2one-output (it's authored because you can burn it and it will play in a player) i took all ingredencies (video, audio, subtitles) using smartripper, the demuxed output has a size of 4,3 GB, 70 MB less then the DVD2One output, that's because the muxing overhead has left, i know ;))
now i reauthored the dvd with maestro with a simple menue, and its larger than the fully functional dvd2one output, which also represents a dvd, just without a menue, thats the only difference between the to dvds. and the menue is about 1 MB.
i hope you see now what i mean.
once more the original dvd was already authored by a authoring proggy, and was resized with dvd2one, which results in the same DVD just the video-stream was resized! so dvd2one is in this case just an alternative to get a smaller video-stream, okay. i don't want to compare it with maestro, i know that the purpose of each program differs.
i'm sure if i author the dvd with the original video-streams (no dvd2one resize) i will get the same result and the dvd is larger than the original.

[auenf]

Originally posted by redbaron2
the original dvd was authored, by which authoring proggy is irrelavant, right?

not exactly;

ReelDVD creates a Video_ts that doesnt contain a VTS_01_0.VOB, which if you take that directory in maestro, it will happily create a dvd video image for you, but it wont play in standalones, cause there is a file that is missing.

Enf...

[sundance]

Trilight,
...you can expect around a 50-150MB "mux overhead" when compiling your assets to VOB files.
Is there some kind of correlation or "formula" to calculate that overhead from the asset sizes and/or length of the movie?

[influenza]

There's a formula, doitfast4u uses it. It calculates the bitrates used to reencode with cce. In the process it takes into account the menus, not to be compressed vobsets and muxing overhead of reauthoring. This calculation is extremely precise as you might have noticed when using this wonderfull tool. But as I understand from the author eyes only it was a major pain in the ass to come up with it.

[coona]

Sundance,

in my experience it takes 3% of the size your sources for muxing. So your (video streams + audio streams)* 1,03 + 2 or 3 MB for each subtitle track = total size. I guess it is easy way to get almost the right size :).

This thread is more precise :)

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55032

[sundance]

Tnx, coona.
I'll try to verify that with the DVDs I've already done with Maestro.
I'll let you know...

Checked some of my projects.
To me it seems to be more related to the length of the movie that to the size of the sources. Using the 3% calculation I almost get 130 MB for all the projects tested (90...180 min movies) while the real muxing overhead I got was 65...130 MB. The longer the movie (in terms of mins), the bigger the mux overhead...

[coona]

I guess it also depends on audio stream type - for DTS you need more space than for DD. 3% is commonly accepted ratio :).

I have red this also in mpucoder post so it has to be truth :D :D. Otherwise Kansas is going bye-bye :D:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55197

And I´m realy looking forward to your test results.