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View Full Version : What makes a stream FILM? IFOEdit and PowerDVD don't believe me!


psantucc
6th March 2003, 03:31
Greetings All-
I suspect the solution to my problem is simple, but I have been unable as yet to find an answer in the many fine guides and forums available. After substantial research on my own, I am at last able to present a single technical question to this group, in the hope that a reader knows the answer. I recognize that I might be in the wrong forum, as no encoding per se takes place in my project - but I beg your tolerance, as I think the problem I face can be best answered by an expert encoder rather than expert author.

I am trying to back up Beauty and the Beast Special Edition , R1 NTSC. My goal is
a DVD5 with the special edition, all three soundtracks, both subtitles, and working chapter points, but no menus or extras. Since the elementary streams themselves are small enough to fit a DVD5 with room to spare, I want to avoid trascoding and the commensurate quality loss.

Using SmartRipper, I have been able to extract valid files for all of the streams in which I am interested and the chapter points. I can remux and reauthor them in IFOEdit and get a file set that plays properly in PowerDVD XP, including observation of chapter points.

The Problem is the reported length of the m2v file and any vobs made from it. The movie iteself is 91 minutes long, but WMP 6.4 and PowerDVD XP both report it as 72 minutes.

A preview operation in DVD2AVI on the m2v reports 95% FILM with both progressive and interlaced frames.

It doesn't take long to count the frames (131205, if memory serves) and do the
math; if the file is treated as 23.576 fps, it will show 91 minutes - if 29.97 fps, 72 minutes. Something in one of my steps is preventing players from understanding how to count the length, and I don't know how to find it.

PowerDVD XP is tolerant - though it reports a wrong time (as though the file were to be counted in 29.97 frames) it can continue to play and chapter operations succeed. My standalone player is not tolerant. Though a DVD made from this fileset will play, any calculation dependant operation (such as chapter search, scan, or even OSD of time elapsed) will cause the player to freeze.

So I got a tip over at DVDRHelp to try pulldown.exe and modify the the drop frame flag. This I have done, with the following result.

Using pulldown.exe set for drop_frame true or drop_frame false, windows media player is convinced that the resultant m2v is film, and shows accurate time code and permits scrubbing. PowerDVD has no difference in its treatment from before the pulldown operation; no total time count is shown, and the drag bar stops at about the point where the end would be if the stream really were true 29.97 NTSC.

Authoring a DVD in IFOEdit using the pulled down m2v yields the same result as not pulled down; neither PowerDVD nor my standalone treat the runtime properly, and the standalone chokes on that as a result.

Examining the IFO file of the re-authored DVD reveals that IFOEdit thought the file was the wrong run length on the PGC:
PGC (program chain):
[00000002] Number of Programs 22 [16]
[00000003] Number of Cells 22 [16]
[00000004] Playback time (BCD) 17978325 [011253d5]
Playback time (hh:mm:ss.frame) 01:12:53.15 / 30 fps

But editing the IFO to match the original playback time does not fix the playback problems. I tentatively conclude that the proper information is missing from the m2v, and IFOEdit authors based on that.

So the question now is: what do PowerDVD and IFOEdit want that isn't in my m2v? It isn't the drop frame flag, and I've tried restoring the rff flags with pulldown.exe at the same time (even though DVD2AVI's report of 95% film should indicate that they were there already). What the hell do I have to do to identify the m2v stream properly?

As a corrollary, doesn't the fact that the information was somehow lost indicate a flaw in SmartRipper's demux?

REECYCUP
6th March 2003, 07:24
ok let me have a go at it
you say your movie with audio and subs will fit on a dvd5 True ?
why are you demuxing it?
strip the movie only in file mode run it through ifoedit keep all the streams
this will give you all the audios and original chapters

slk001
6th March 2003, 16:24
M2V files don't always report the running time correctly because of the DISPLAYED RATE vs the ENCODED RATE. Don't use these programs as indicators of video length. Anyway, REECYCUP is giving you a better way to do what you want - just strip out the streams you don't want.

psantucc
7th March 2003, 06:07
I tried!

I wasn't clear. The movie that I want is contained within angle 1 of the original VOBs. The VOBs themselves are too big for a DVD5, so a file mode rip doesn't get me there; I need to shed an angle - thus movie mode.

For that matter, using DVD Decryptor in Movie Mode or IFOEdit movie only processing on decrypted IFO/vob sets gets me VOBs of the correct length - but they contain the last 18 minutes of the movie twice. It looks like DVD Decryptor in movie mode understands how 'long' the movie is, but not why ( the FILM mode issue ) and just fills a vob of that length - which wrecks the chapters.

You've inspired me, though. I never did try a movie mode rip without demux using SmartRipper and the IFOEdit method to recreated valid IFOs. The process is running now - I'll publish results tomorrow.

(even if it works, I still want to know why the de/remux method didn't. I'm like that. B-}=)

psantucc
7th March 2003, 15:13
Close, but no cigar.

Using SmartRipper in movie mode to strip only angle 1, I get VOBs with all the streams I want. Using IFOEdit to re-create the IFOs according to the guide on the IFOEdit site, I get a fileset that PowerDVD likes just fine - everything is as it want it to be.

My standalone, though, won't play it at all - playback freezes about 4 seconds after it starts or a chaper skip. The OSD reports chapter numbers as negative(Chapter -91.46, I think for chapter 2) which leads me to believe that we still face a time codeing problem.

Next up: SmartRipper in file mode to decrypt, IFOEdit to strip angle 1 and redo VOBs and IFOs. Attempt tonight, results tomorrow - if anyone is still following this thread.

Psantucc

REECYCUP
7th March 2003, 19:20
we are still here:)
i use dvddectrypter file mode then ifo edit

psantucc
8th March 2003, 16:21
DVD Decryptor in file mode -> IFOEdit to strip angle and audio is what I started with. It fails - the disc produced that way has a movie with a reported length of 91 minutes, but it is that long because the true full movie is counted as 72 minutes and IFOEdit appends the last 19 minutes again after the credits - which wrecks the chapters and makes the movie file much bigger than it needs to be.

My latest attempt was DVD Decryptor Movie Mode -> IFOEdit for IFO reconstruction. The in my standalone, the movie plays and chapters forward work, but chapter reverse fails. Scan forward is ignored and scan reverse freezes the player.

Next up: Trying to keep both angles of the main PGC to see if IFOEdit can swallow that, and trying DVD Workshop to author from the elementarty streams that IFOEdit misreads the time of.

psantucc
9th March 2003, 03:58
DVD Workshop is a waste of time for this purpose. Onward.

psantucc

psantucc
12th March 2003, 03:42
The working method:
SmartRipper in filemode ->
IFOEdit Strip Main Movie Angle 1 (create new IFOs) =
The main movie + the final 33 minutes appended, so the movie is too long ->
IFOEdit Strip VOBIds, check all, then uncheck 48 and higher=
Perfect DVD!

My hypothesis is that all of the stripping tools get confused by the presence of two movies (special edition and theatrical) each with two angles (release and work in progress). IFOEdit seems to handle it best, as it gives a choice of VOBIds to include - I think the default offered by IFOEdit on that first pass represents the whole special edition + the VOBIds which make up the end of the film as it would have been in the theatrical edition. It seems likely since they would be in the PGC, but not represented in the special edition version.

My machine is busy right now making extra ... backups, just in case. As soon as it finishes, I'll try using VOBRator to check the original list of VOBIds IFOEdit offers to see if I can do the copy in two steps.

Thanks for all your help!

psantucc