OGG Vorbis vs MP3 at high bitrates

[DJ Alik]

Hello.

I am pretty new to ogg vorbis. Just encoded my first files today :p

Now the question I have is: Has anyone done any kind of qualitative and quantitative test to see which one sounds better at high bitrates?
Also what ogg vorbis bitrate corresponds (quality wise) to mp3 at various bitrates.

MP3 CBR OGG Vorbis VBR
128 ???
160 ???
192 ???

[symonjfox]

Ogg Vorbis sounds great at low bitrates.
Keep in mind that VBR is always better than CBR at the same average bitrate.

<80 MP3Pro
up to 128 Ogg Vorbis
up to 160 MPEG 4 AAC (i tested Nero plugin. AAC is quite new, so you would expect more quality in next relases).
192 and above Musepack (no perceptual differences between the original source and compressed file).

Since you're a Dj (like me) maybe you'll use audio compression for backup your discs (as I always do). And so, I'll re rip and compress everything using Musepack SV8 when it will be ready. Else you can use MPEG 4 AAC that is a good codec and is gaing popularity.

[DJ Alik]

that's not exactly what i was asking. so are you telling me that mp3 sounds better than ogg vorbis at bitrates higher than 160?

[symonjfox]

Yes, i think that MP3 sounds better at 160 kbs (VBR) than OGG. I made some tests and MP3 gives more clear sound and less artifacts (for my hears).

Then there's MPC that gives even better quality.

[DJ Alik]

i always use MP3 160 CBR with lowpass of 19.7 I was always kind of sceptical of VBR format since back in the day it used to give very bad quality (remember Xing) Also I am not very sure how will my mp3 mixing software will react to vbr. I use Mixmeister 4 Pro. What are the settings you use to encode MP3 at 160 VBR?

[tangent]

Ogg Vorbis 1.0 is known to have some issues at the high bitrates, but so does LAME MP3, and they both have different types of samples where they have problems with. For DVD ripping purposes, there is little point to high bitrate transcoding if there is already a 192kbps AC3 soundtrack on your DVD.

Garf has his own project to fix some of the problems Vorbis has at high bitrates. He did great work with Vorbis RC2/RC3 with what is known as Vorbis GT2. GT3 beta is in the works, for more information go here:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=6023&hl=gt3&s=

[DJ Alik]

i was thinking more for just music files. when i rip dvds i use either the original ac3 or a vbr mp3 at about 160kbps

[tangent]

Then really you should be looking at threads in http://www.hydrogenaudio.org forums instead. Specifically this thread:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?act=ST&f=15&t=203&s=

Best settings for ABR/VBR at ~160kbps is simply --alt-preset 160

Lame is Lame, Xing is Xing. Everyone knows Xing and Blade sucks while Lame and Fhg are the best MP3 encoders. Just because VBR sucks for Xing doesn't mean VBR sucks for Lame.