Instant Copy and Complex Menu Structures

[DVD Maniac]

I am having trouble with Usual Suspects and Instant Copy and need some help. It has an unusual multi language menu structure which I have not been able to edit so I get the required output from IC.

The source structure is as follows -

VTS01_0.VOB - English Menu system with language selection branch, 173KB
VTS01_(1 to 7),VOB - Main Movie
VTS02_(0 to 1).VOB - MGM Splash
VTS_03_(0 to 1).VOB - French Menu system, 171KB
VTS_04_(0 to 1).VOB - Chapter Selection (Language Independent), 149KB

I want to ditch all the non english content as otherwise my main movie reduction is too low (<60%). Main movie is easy - just an Ifoedit strip stream. Menu's are the problem.

If I load up Instant Copy it reports a menu size of 490KB - so it must be recognising all the different linked menu systems described above. Telling it to ditch VTS_03 makes no difference to the reported menu size so I assume it will try to keep all the menus regardless.

I have traced the way the menus link up as follows -

in VTS01_0.VOB vob2 is the main language selection branch screen (English or French). So I figured if I strip out this vob using Vobrator, delete playback of vob2 in the VTS01_1.IFO I might get IC to ignore the French menu in VTS3 and report a menu size of 322KB. It plays as required in the PC player - straight to the english menu.

No such luck in IC, I get "List Index out of bounds (0)" error when it scans the edited source files. I realise that I need to correct the VTS01_1.IFO (and VIDEO_TS.IFO?)'s to reflect the new structure but not sure how to go about it with IfoUpdate (ie what is the Authored / Original file, what copy settings to use etc).

Any advice gratefully received.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
delete playback of vob2 in the VTS01_1.IFO
there is your problem. You must use VOB extras and delete only the VOB ID's you know

I have posted somewhere on how to do this, I'll have a look now :)

[DVD Maniac]

Correct me if I am wrong but Ifoedit cannot strip vob's out of menu files, only the normal VTS_xx_(>0's)? You need to use Vobrator for that task do you not? Thats what I have done and ended up with the quoted error.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
Correct me if I am wrong but Ifoedit cannot strip vob's out of menu files, only the normal VTS_xx_(>0's)? You need to use Vobrator for that task do you not? Thats what I have done and ended up with the quoted error.
it can, use Menu extras button in the same way :), but be careful what you remove

[MackemX]

from another thread, edited a little

p.s. an example of deleting the VOB ID's incorrectly, I have just tried it

I have just come across a very small VOB so I opened the IFO and it has 16 VOB ID's, so I demuxed them all as they will all not preview using Ifoedit. Start PowerDVD or similar and turn REPEAT on. DRAG and DROP the .m2v files into PowerDVD making sure the REPEAT is still turned on

Then all you will see is is the picture flashing on & off as they repeat so fast, if it is what I don't want I make a note so I know I can delete that VOB ID after. Now check all the .m2v files

my 1st VOB ID was just a blank screen nothing else yet if I deleted it, PowerDVD would not play DVD, it just hangs and the time on player just continues with just a black screen showing, instead of proceeding

All the rest where different language warnings so they were ok to delete but the 1st was needed

so that is why it is best to be careful and check what you are deleting 1st when deleting VOB ID's using Ifoedit

Some VOB's only have one VOB ID so you cannot remove it, but you can remux it with a blank .m2v file and strip audio resulting in a tiny DVD compliant VOB(more info on howto do that after)

[DVD Maniac]

Its great when you find out other tricks that can be achieved with Ifoedit - what a great piece of software.

I have successfuly stripped out the offending vob's, I had to keep the first vob in VTS03 to keep the structure valid but IC now reports the right start size for the menu files. Hopefully it will now process correctly.

Thankyou MisterX!

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
Its great when you find out other tricks that can be achieved with Ifoedit - what a great piece of software.

I have successfuly stripped out the offending vob's, I had to keep the first vob in VTS03 to keep the structure valid but IC now reports the right start size for the menu files. Hopefully it will now process correctly.

Thankyou MisterX!

It should, did you test it first using DVD player software and see what happens when it comes to the point you have stripped. It should have just flashed a black screen then returned to where it came

glad it worked but you can see why I keep banging my head against the wall regarding stripping and being extremely careful

Do not use IC to strip Titles, I cannot express it enough

In time I will have a simple guide for Ifoedit, but I'm sure there are already plenty out there at the moment on how to strip VIB ID's and what to watch out for :)

[DVD Maniac]

I am sure all this stuff is covered elsewhere but it is not in a single, comprehensive form that intermediates like myself can follow (the poor Newbies heads must be spinning). An "End to End" guide would be great - right from Decrypter to end burn. The reason I say this is that IC relies on you doing your rip with the right settings (for branching and angles etc), then you need a proper strip (as you keep stressing!), IC process + 2nd run fine tune then a recommended burn approach +tool.

May I suggest you call it MisterX's "RipitStripItInstantCopyit" guide and get Doom9 to put it in the Guides section and charge an appropriate fee.

My standard charge for Marketing Consultancy is 10%

BTW - Usual Suspects SUCCESS! at last.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
I am sure all this stuff is covered elsewhere but it is not in a single, comprehensive form that intermediates like myself can follow (the poor Newbies heads must be spinning). An "End to End" guide would be great - right from Decrypter to end burn. The reason I say this is that IC relies on you doing your rip with the right settings (for branching and angles etc), then you need a proper strip (as you keep stressing!), IC process + 2nd run fine tune then a recommended burn approach +tool.

May I suggest you call it MisterX's "RipitStripItInstantCopyit" guide and get Doom9 to put it in the Guides section and charge an appropriate fee.

My standard charge for Marketing Consultancy is 10%

BTW - Usual Suspects SUCCESS! at last.
nice to finally see someone understand why I keep on stressing about using correct methods and settings

I will in time get the full guide (link in sig) but I think even basic skeleton guide I have uploaded now using the DVDDecrypter guide along with Ifoedit will solve a lot of people problems as it looks like it did for you :)

stripping the movie using DVDDecrpyter is another BIG NO NO!, along with 'Butchering' (I like that word:)) using other methods before giving it to IC, you stand more chance of failure. You must supply IC with an exact copy of the original or if you strip first you must ensure that all IFO's are updated correctly (using delete playback BIG NO NO!) or else IC will either complain or crash when it comes to that VOB ID

feel free to try my method and chances are you won'tlook back

thanks for the support DVD Maniac (cheque is in the post:D)

cheers

[DVD Maniac]

Perhaps they should change it to read

"In the end, perfection is not attainable - just look at our software release processes for proof of that"

Stepping away from this topic now - I have just started to read the blurb on DVD95Copy.

If it can -

1. Improve transcoding quality better than Instant Copy
2. Do a proper automatic resize without screwing up the output size and requiring a second modification run like with IC
3. Automatically spot the right size for menu and extras compression


AND

4. Strip cleanly without the need for an IfoEdit pre-process (including unwanted menu vob's or unwanted menu branches like Usual Suspects)

Then I suspect my (and your) evenings are going to be a lot more free!

Tine will tell

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
Perhaps they should change it to read

"In the end, perfection is not attainable - just look at our software release processes for proof of that"

LOL :D, that quote is from the end DVDDEMYSTIFIED FAQ #1.3 here (http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.3), nothing to do with IC

I've updated sig a little