Incorrect DAR on standalone player when playing back anamorphic PAL VCDs

[Buttfreak]

I'm having a peculiar problem I hope someone can help me out with. When ripping PAL DVDs to VCDs I always make anamorphic transfers to better utilise my widescreen TV (let's not get into an argument about bitrates, etc. suffice to say I think hakka504 agrees with me).

Anyway, I recently noticed that when playing these PAL VCDs back on my Pioneer Elite DV-47A the image appeared slightly too stretched, even in 16:9 wide mode (set by the television). I went through the DAR guide, did the math again (check this out) (http://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=270412), but it seems I was doing everything right. TPMG 16:9 source, full screen arrange mode (the flag on the video stream doesn't matter) 720x576 -> 352x288. I even went so far as to screen capture the original anamorphic PAL DVD frames and compare the DAR on these with screen caps of my resultant anamorphic PAL VCD frames - they were identical!

However, when playing these PAL VCDs back on my TV, the image is too stretched (i.e. people are "taller n' thinner" than they should be)! I've gone back to basics and put pieces of tape on my TV :D while playing the anamorphic 2.35:1 original and then checked the alignment when playing back my PAL VCD - the PAL VCD is outside the pieces of tape!

Strangely enough, if I use Custom Center arrange mode and set the video area to 352x240 (the NTSC standard) I get a picture on my TV that is slightly offset (upwards) but in the correct DAR. :confused: Could this have something to do with that my DVD player is a US/NTSC native player and can't/won't playback PAL VCDs?

Any and all help from you guys (especially the PAL guru) would be much appreciated!

/Buttfreak

(If this message gets posted twice, my apologies. I was getting error messages when posting it)

[hakko504]

Originally posted by Buttfreak
Could this have something to do with that my DVD player is a US/NTSC native player and can't/won't playback PAL VCDs? That could very well be the source of the problem. MPEG-1 (VCD) and MPEG-2 (SVCD/DVD) handles the DAR a little different, or to be precise, MPEG-2 set the final DAR of the video, but MPEG-1 uses PixelAR (PAR), and it is possible that your player assumes NTSC PAR when playing back all VCD's. That would cause image to be stretched incorrectly to fullscreen.

If possible, try an SVCD and see what happens. Or make NTSC VCD's instead... And yes, doing an anamorphic VCD is a way of improving on a awful situation, making it merely bad... ;) Sorry, I'm just no fan of VCD's at all. And with DVD-burners getting cheaper all the time, I think that is the way to go in the future.

[Buttfreak]

Hey hakko, thanks for the quick response. I was afraid it might be something like that. Looks like I spent $1,000 for Pioneer's top-of-the-range player and now I'm left with my dick in my hand.

I'll try burning a NTSC SVCD but I'm not very keen on using more than 2 discs (because of the get-out-of-my-couch hassle, not the 50p discs). To date, I've had some very satisfactory results with VCD...

When it comes to only burning NTSC VCDs, I thought of that too, but the extra trouble of converting video formats has sorta put me off it. I'll go through the guides again though and have a second stab at it.

You're right, I guess DVD burning is the next natural step. If only the hardware manufacturers could come to a consensus on which format I'd be all set. Any preferences?

Thanks again. This forum rocks.

/Buttfreak

[hakko504]

I meant burn a PAL SVCD.

Originally posted by Buttfreak
You're right, I guess DVD burning is the next natural step. If only the hardware manufacturers could come to a consensus on which format I'd be all set. Any preferences? Not really, I bought the Pioneer DVD-105 (-R(W)) because I thought it gave the best value for the money (3100SEK ~=230GBP) at the moment, but I saw a few days ago that M$ had chosen +R(W) as their preferred format in the future. If you can afford it, go for the NEC or the Sony that can handle both formats.

[Buttfreak]

Yeah, I meant PAL SVCDs too. Don't know why I typed NTSC.

Thanks for the advice on the DVD writers. I'm sick of paying a first-mover premium (MD in 1993, first Creative MP3 player, etc.) and will wait a while though. No use paying for two standards when I might just end up using one!

[Buttfreak]

Originally posted by hakko504
MPEG-1 (VCD) and MPEG-2 (SVCD/DVD) handles the DAR a little different, or to be precise, MPEG-2 set the final DAR of the video, but MPEG-1 uses PixelAR (PAR), and it is possible that your player assumes NTSC PAR when playing back all VCD's. That would cause image to be stretched incorrectly to fullscreen. If possible, try an SVCD and see what happens.
It worked beautifully!!! It may have been said before, but it can be said again: hakko, you're a genius!

:D

It'll be SVCDs for now on for me. Now the only question is CBR och 2-pass VBR...

Tack så mycket för hjälpen!

/Buttfreak

[hakko504]

You're welcome :D :D :D :D