Instant Copy - Copyright warnings ARGHHHHH!

[DVD Maniac]

With several Movies processed with IC I have the same problem - please help before I go INSANE!!!!!!!

OK, processed each movie each time cutting out unwanted copyright vob's or titles as appropriate. For some reason, my main player keeps hanging with the copied disc.

Recent Example -

Final Destination

Original Title set structure

VTS01 - Main Movie
VTS02 - Various Extras
VTS03 - Pain in the arse Copyright vob (Title 7 in the VIDEO_TS Overview

In IC I deselected Title 7 to be copied. IC processes my main movie (VTS01) plus my extras (VTS02). I have to do a two stage process to get the end size correct (as is usual with IC).

For VTS03 it appears to process VTS_03_0.IFO correctly, before it has the usual PGC1 program chain intact, with the new one the PGC1 chain has been modified with no cells, chapters or vob's (exactly like Ifoedit does with the delete playback function). The VTS_03_01.VOB which contains the copyright vob is not there as would be expected.

Playback on the PC player works OK - no copyright - straight to the menu. Playback on my Phillips set-top freezes the player - looking for Title 7 which is the title # in VIDEO_TS for the copyright warning.

OK, solved this problem before on others - back to Ifoedit. Changed the First Play PGC setting to Jump to Titleset 1 Title 1 Root-Menu to bypass the annoying copyright warning. The player STILL keeps trying to access Title 7 - the &$@*ING copyright warning and hanging.

I have never come across this problem before - the First Play PGC change trick always used to work.

WHY IS THE PLAYER STILL TRYING TO ACCESS THE COPYRIGHT TITLE 7!!! Is there some other reference in VIDEO_TS or maybe VTS_01.IFO I need to change

Please can someone help before I reach for the pills. It always worked so well with REMPEG and Ifoedit remux.....

[MackemX]

you could always try taking the original VTS 3 IFO/VOB then stripping it again the replacing the IC created VOB with it then use ifoupdate to correct it all to see if that fixes your problem, back up all the BUP/IFO's in the folder 1st just in case it don't work 1st time

but the simple solution to the problem originally is to strip the unwanted warnings etc before even letting IC touch it, or strip them out afterwards

Ifoedit does a much better job of stripping unwanted streams than IC can do and you sounds like you know how to use Ifoedit & the VOB/Menu extras button, so I suggest you do it 1st iwth ifoedit

You can do a better job manually using ifoedit than IC can do automatically

I have used IC to strip titles then when I put that resulting DVD file back into IC it sometimes won't open the IFO saying some files are missing etc :D, so chances are it won't play in a standalone
(hmmm? maybe you could use IC to check it's own work before you burn? as I notice it does some sort of DVD structure test before opening the IFO)

now I use ifoedit everytime and strip the unwanted material 1st, then test it all still works after each strip (backing up ifo's/vobs after every succesful strip) till I'm finished and then I let IC have it

when you do the 2nd run with IC do you process the whole DVD again?

cos if mine are bigger/smaller I just stick the 1st runs results back into IC (it should accept it again as it did the 1st time and no more titles have been stripped out since the 1st time as I stripped them originally) and make one of the extras a fraction smaller or larger depending on the size I'm out

This can take as little as 10 minutes to do as you do not process the movie again so just set your movie high and take the overshot from extras if possible on the 2nd run (that is if you have extras to take it off:))

[DVD Maniac]

Thanks Mr X for the suggestions -

you could always try taking the original VTS 3 IFO/VOB then stripping it again the replacing the IC created VOB with it then use ifoupdate to correct it all to see if that fixes your problem, back up all the BUP/IFO's in the folder 1st just in case it don't work 1st time

I am going to try this now. What I do not understand is if the First Play PGC instruction in VIDEO_TS.IFO is to go directly to the root menu in Title set 1, why the hell is it still trying to access Title 7 when the disc starts up? Is there more than one reference to Title 7 left in the jump instructions - maybe in the Title1 .ifo? If you can explain this behaviour I would be most grateful as the First Play PGC trick has ALWAYS worked for me before now.


but the simple solution to the problem originally is to strip the unwanted warnings etc before even letting IC touch it, or strip them out afterwards

Yep, I think this is the ONLY way of ensuring IC does not screw up the audio, sub and title selections and have been using this method when IC fails to process my selections as I requested (about 50% of the time).

when you do the 2nd run with IC do you process the whole DVD again?

cos if mine are bigger/smaller I just stick the 1st runs results back into IC (it should accept it again as it did the 1st time and no more titles have been stripped out since the 1st time as I stripped them originally) and make one of the extras a fraction smaller or larger depending on the size I'm out

This can take as little as 10 minutes to do as you do not process the movie again so just set your movie high and take the overshot from extras if possible on the 2nd run (that is if you have extras to take it off)

That sounds like a great idea and I have not tried before. I have thought about using this approach previously in the "good old days" of TMPG. My concern is with Video degradation - if you put the video files through the process twice does it not have an effect on quality (even if on the second run you keep most of it at 100%). If you set the slider to 100% for the main movie title does it leave it alone or is it still washed through the transcoding routines?

On a final note, do you have any views on how we (the Doom9) community should be approaching Pinnacle to get these flaws in the product corrected. All these pre-processing and post processing activities are a pain (but fun to overcome I know), they reaaly need fixing. My experience to date of having sensible conversations with them has not been good - and you can forget the online help!

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
Thanks Mr X for the suggestions -


That sounds like a great idea and I have not tried before. I have thought about using this approach previously in the "good old days" of TMPG. My concern is with Video degradation - if you put the video files through the process twice does it not have an effect on quality (even if on the second run you keep most of it at 100%). If you set the slider to 100% for the main movie title does it leave it alone or is it still washed through the transcoding routines?

Glad you like it and it's probably better to just transcode the originals again if you read my updated guide from another post

To use IC to get maximum quality and filesize utilization try this

1) Use IC only for what it is advertised for and that is 'true 1:1 copies' not for stripping, as it does not alway do it properly!. So to save on potential DVD structure errors use the VOB MENU/EXTRAS feautures with Ifoedit to strip VOB ID's (plenty of guides to so that about)

2) read my suggestion guide on how to use IC, but concentrate on the bit at the bottom about suggested % settings for IC (suggested minimum for menu & extras is 60%). Files set near 30% also seem to cause problems for IC, so go no lower than 40%

3) Now add 9% of the predicted file size (NOT the figure in the brackets beside it, as the audio does not change!) for all the SELECTED movie files & menu NOT set @ 100% by IC (don't include linked titles twice), as IC always seems to be 8-9% under regarding filesize on these files, don't worry about a resulting file over 4.37GB (you should know why if you read my guide)

4) set IC away and minimize it and go do something else for 2 hours if need be

5) if resulting PDI files do not fit on DVD blank or are less than your acceptable level then now use my guide if needed on resulting files to either add or subtract the difference

6) ENJOY your DVD backup :D

I will eventually post a full guide, but all I can say for now IC is a wonderful tool when used with Ifoedit :D

[DVD Maniac]

I did an Ifoedit strip on each title as suggested. When IC does its initial Title scan it comes back with error "List Index Out of Bounds (3)". The only way round this was to keep the original Title set VTS02 unstripped - then IC accepts the image source. I am now going to process this with all Titles selected as suggested (the copyright vob was stripped out OK by Ifoedit which was my main concern)

Result in a few hours!

How many others are reporting problems likie this with an Ifoedit prestrip? I have seen a few on other threads.

BTW - Do you advise a - Get VTS sectots before IC process?

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
I did an Ifoedit strip on each title as suggested. When IC does its initial Title scan it comes back with error "List Index Out of Bounds (3)". The only way round this was to keep the original Title set VTS02 unstripped - then IC accepts the image source. I am now going to process this with all Titles selected as suggested (the copyright vob was stripped out OK by Ifoedit which was my main concern)

Result in a few hours!

How many others are reporting problems likie this with an Ifoedit prestrip? I have seen a few on other threads.

BTW - Do you advise a - Get VTS sectots before IC process?

When you strip are you stripping all the VOB ID's from the VOB? as I noticed that if you delete them all sometimes IC doesn't like it, sometimes some of the VOB ID's are only one second long (mostly layer breaks), leave these and do not strip them

Are you also overwriting the original VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP & VTS_0x_0.IFO/BUP's with the ones produced after stripping along with replacing the VOB's?

since realising why I got the List index out of bounds I have stripped around 20+ DVD's using Ifoedit and I'm yet to get the 'index error' again by being extremely careful as to what VOB ID's I delete and how I do it

worth the extra fuss & prep IMO cos if IC accepts it then its more likely to play in most DVD players as IC is very fussy about DVD structure

[brettn]

Is there a way to remove WHOLE VTS sets first and fix with IFoEdit before sending it into IC?

Say for example, I'd like to remove VTS_02_x, VTS_07_x, VTS_08_x, VTS_09_x, VTS_10_x (all trailers w/ only vob id).

And then somehow update it via IFOEdit so it knows those VTS sets no longer exist. I tried "Get VTS sectors", but that doesn't work.

If I remove VTS_X_1 on for each set I want to remove (but leave the BUP, IFO and _0 for each) and then do a "Get VTS sectors". Then IC won't even read in the files.

Thanks

[YODAS]

I think another idea which works is to replace the vobs u wanna delete with dummy files in order to keep the original structure intact and have less problems to deal with:-)

[DVD Maniac]

When you strip are you stripping all the VOB ID's from the VOB? as I noticed that if you delete them all sometimes IC doesn't like it, sometimes some of the VOB ID's are only one second long (mostly layer breaks), leave these and do not strip them

No - just vob 9 (of 9) and leaving the other 8 so this should not be the problem

Are you also overwriting the original VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP & VTS_0x_0.IFO/BUP's with the ones produced after stripping along with replacing the VOB's?

You have mentioned a key point here and one I have puzzled over ever since using Ifoedit stripping -

1. If you strip STREAMS then you end up with new VTS_0x_0.IFO/BUP's AND VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP's

2. If you strip VOB's then you only get new VTS_0x_0.IFO/BUP's - no new VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP's

With my limited knowledge of DVD structure, I assume this is because VIDEO_TS.IFO contains information on both Titles and their stream contents, so if you change the stream content of a Title set then you also must update the VIDEO_TS.IFO. Vob's on the other hand are unique to each title set and their structure is only referenced in the associated VTS_0x_0.IFO/BUP. That's why a VOB strip results in new VTS_0x_0.IFO/BUP's

Is my explanation above correct?

Now following this assumption I see a problem occuring if you are stream stripping in MORE THAN ONE title set. Let's say I strip out a stream in VTS02 - I get new VTS_02_0.IFO/BUP's and VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP's which reflect the new structure. If I now go ahead and strip out a stream in VTS03 - I get new VTS_03_0.IFO/BUP's and VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP's BUT the two new VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP's are slightly different, one will reflect the new VTS02 structure and the other the new VTS03 structure BUT NOT BOTH. The only way of doing this is to update your VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP's in the source directory EACH TIME you do a stream strip (but not required for a vob strip).

Is my long winded waffle above correct?

Quoting Brettn -

If I remove VTS_X_1 on for each set I want to remove (but leave the BUP, IFO and _0 for each) and then do a "Get VTS sectors". Then IC won't even read in the files.

I have never got this to work with IC as it is too fussy about valid structure- you must have at least one PGC / VOB referenced in the Title's IFO. I have never tried inserting dumy vob's - would not know how to.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DVD Maniac
Is my long winded waffle above correct?


mostly :)

here is exactly how to do it

e.g.
VTS_03_1.VOB has 5 VOB ID's and 2 streams of audio and two 2 streams of subs

keeping streams but stripping all 5 VOB ID's, will result in ifoedit sayiny you are dealing with invalid VOB's

If the VOB ID is stripped it can't keep the stream

so you must keep at least one vob ID but not necessarily the streams, it will then produce the new VTS_03_0.IFO/BUP and VIDEO_TS.IFO/BUP and just simple copy these resulting files over the originals

If you just strip stream the video file remains intact but it still creates the 4 extra file along with VOB so just replace the orignals everytime

check it plays in DVD player by going to the bit you have just stripped and seeing what happens, if it's OK then just strip the next VTS

but DO NOT delete the VOB ID's that will play with preview or by doubling clicking them in ifoedit
only delete the VOB ID's that have the bits you don't want and you are 100% as to what video it contains. Some do not contain video but if you delete them it affects playback.
If you are not sure as to what each VOB ID is, just use VOBRator and extract all the VOB ID's then play the resulting video files in PowerDVD. If they are really small and don't play then just select repeat as this causes it to flash up all the time so you can see it, this normally happens with FBI warnings as they are only one frame

I normally play the complete vob 1st to see what it contains, and this above example of 5 VOB ID's contained only 3 video files and 2 black frames, so I only deleted the relevant 3 as if I deleted the other two then the player would freeze as basically it will lose its location on the DVD as it's looking for something that doesn't exist

If you delete all 5 it causes problems, it may play in PowerDVD but it may not play in your standalone so again I stress only delete VOB D's you can identify

you have been warned :D

p.s. why does it always take a massive post to explain what I mean, as its simple once you know how :)