DVD2One Security?

[kreatiV]

Hi,

I read about the problems DVD2One has with warez version of their software. Why not do this?

Do an online verification of the key?

1. Install DVD2One
2. User enters key
3. DVD2One has to connect ONE TIME ONLY to the server and sends serial
4. Server checks serial
5. If serial is okay - DVD2One is unlocked
6. If serial is NOT okay - DVD2One is not unlocked

DVD2One should only do this ONCE when it is installed or updated with a newer version - otherwise it should not "call home"

Now I am not a security wizard so some of you might laugh at this idea - but heck I want DVD2One go foward with features and not be stopped by people that need to crack this nice proggy.

[Zoltrix]

If that was implemented, the crackers would just rip the security check out (part that checks with online server) and give the program a valid serial to use =\

[int 21h]

Two things.. first no one needs to crack this program, they do it for the challenge, the respect (and subsequent sites that respect gets), and as a hobby.

Secondly, as far as I know, the true online verification wrappers, like eLicense, are very difficult to crack through code removal, and are usually compromised through a proxy-like interface.

[drmih]

After all the delays for improving the security I see that it took about 2 days before there were working serials all over the net.

[Spirit UK]

I don't understand why companies spend so much time and money on protection schemes coz in the end they will all get cracked no matter how sophisticated they are.

Like int 21h said its done for a challenge and everyone likes a challenge.

Spirit UK

[zwieber]

I've said it in the past. Spending time on improving security is a wast of time.
Ok, so writing a keygen will take a bit longer, big deal, working serial numbers were available on the net the same day it was released. So, other then agrivation for their customers, what did they gain ??? Absolutely nothing.

[Nic]

The only system ive seen that works even slightly is to release new versions with even the slightest change & a new set of serial numbers but dont change the version number. That makes tracking down the right version and a serial to go with it tricky.

Also watermarking every executable makes people that have bought it less likely to share their copy.

Also the cdrwin/tvtool method of accepting fake serials and then creating garbage output after ten minutes or so puts people off using warez'd versions.

But even these can be got round... :( But thats about the best Edwin can hope for I guess.

-Nic

[Dimsum]

Well the sad fact is that no matter how much Erwin spends increasing the security - it is basically his programming skills verses which ever group decides to challenge him.

The best he can do is change each subsequent version by a bit, so that previous serials/cracks don't work, but one thing for sure is that he is not going to stop the crackers at all.

He is better spending time trying to improve the product than going after security, because otherwise it will get to a point that security is more important than the job of the product.

As quoted by Rene:

It's not like you leave your door open at night, cause a burglar always find another way in your home, now do you?
Tought so.

Well nobody would leave their door open in the first place!, but the thing is even if you shut it securely - if the burglar is determined - he will get in. If he can't get in the frontdoor - then he'll egt in through the backdoor.

Also going on what other people said - those who "appreciate" the effort will buy it regardless, those who don't, won't buy it anyway. It's all well and good that it sells for 39 Euro's - but there are people who wont even pay if it was 3 Euro's!!

It can be well predicted that future versions of DVD2One will be cracked or have serials for them, so I think the best thing Erwin can do is to put security second and make his already wonderful product even better.

[MackemX]

would the fact that extra time spent on security for DVD2One made the crackers want to crack it even quicker?

kreativeV, did Microsoft not try this phone home malarky with XP and fail :D

It's a shame because DVD2One is great for what it does, and looks like it has future potential with more upgrades so hopefully Erwin will continue to do so whether it get's cracked or not

[abatis]

Well a little security at least keeps those going for the low hanging fruit from just plucking. I think the failure by Microsoft to secure WinXP kind of proved that even those with unlimited resources can be beat those with unlimited time (on thier hands).

The demo of the new version of DVD2one is impressive. My current internal debate is: DVD-R discs are cheap. ifoedit works well. Do I really mind burning a few extra discs to get the exact data or have I become lazy and I am willing to compromise on having an original backup. I am still torn. DVD2One is awfull easy.:)

Nice job by the Authors - and I hope you make a ton of money and continue your innovation. Remember most highly creative people peak by age 32. You need to reap before the peak.

[e5p1der]

I agree w/ above sentiments & would suggest authors to continue their efforts on the features front. The harder you think your encryption is, the more likely it will be "cracked" earlier. Yes you'll miss out on those that d/l the war*z versions but they would have never bought your product anywway, no matter how cheap it was. So don't do yourselves a disfavor by fighting these "pirates." keep your existing support base happy, cuz they'll refer their friends, etc.

[nhatduongchi]

DVD2One 1.02 was cracked and released to the scene yesterday!!!

[abatis]

We use to use dongles as a security requirement for someone to get onto the network from a remote location. Maybe more software people need to be thinking of this approach to secure thier programs. Hardware to protect software.


http://www.intellect.vsu.ru/en/protection/dongles/index_e.htm from the site
Dongles as means of software protection

At present possibility of technology of dongles is so wide that cover practically the whole spectrum of ways of software protection. By using dongles, the developers of programs and databases can develop reliable protection systems of their intellectual property .

Dongle is a hardware system element of exhibit protection and is used for generations of response after addressing to him from the program code of application. Usually are used two variants of protection:

creation a defensive shell of exhibit, or so called "envelope" (Envelope)
creation a protection scheme with using a calling function addressing to the dongle.

[jdobbs]

Dongles work about like all the other protections. I can name at least three pieces of popular DVD software that is routinely downloaded with anti-dongle hacks.

The fact is that the only effective method of securing software is to lock it in a safe. Unfortunately it doesn't make any money for you there. There is a delicate balance between security and usefulness that has to be maintained. You have to assume when releasing software that a certain percentage is going to be hacked and build your business case accordingly. Otherwise you will find yourself becoming a puppy chasing your own tail.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by jdobbs
The fact is that the only effective method of securing software is to lock it in a safe

the only safe way is never to release it :D

hang on!, was that not the case with the XP PRO edition and everyone used the leaked 'Devils code' :devil: to get it working, so again it shows that even MS cannot stop it

so I reckon the safest possible way to protect software is for the author to keep it in his head!

p.s. I have the greatest software in the world right now, it's in my head but it simulates you having sex with anyone or anything in the world with it's 3D glasses & bodysuit and I need some Beta testers but I'm not sure they will keep it to themselves, so I'm gonna keep it all to myself :D

[Dimsum]

Hardware dongles don't make any difference. The software does the check - so its easy to just stop that check. Steinberg (to name one) have been using a hardware dongle on Cubase for how long? Funny how the scene always releases every version of Cubase! :D

[mpucoder]

As long as the program runs in such a horribly insecure system such as Windows, there is little that can protect it. Even programs that run off encypted read-only media, and never have the entire program decrypted into memory at any time, can be cracked. The weak point of all protection is Windows, which allows memory of other tasks to be dumped and analyzed.

[wangofree]

I think it's ironic that we talk about cracking software that is part of a larger picture of ripping - encoding - burning a medium for our own enjoyment. A medium that is just as distressed about losing intellectual property rights.

The crackers become the crackees...I love DVD2ONE and hope it prospers as well as grows in features.

:D WF

[abatis]

I see several scenarios

1. Ethical - Those people that buy the software and make backup copies of owned media. :)

2. Partial Pirates - They buy the copy software but have no problem ripping off the studios and artists. Rationalization - its a corporation. My father worked for a corporation. I hated my father. I therefore hate corporations. :confused:

3. Pirates (Full fledged) Rip everything off - arhhg arhhg matey. :devil:

4. Reverse Engineers - Give me any challenge - I will rip you off and give you away for fun. :angry:

[e5p1der]

Originally posted by wangofree
I think it's ironic that we talk about cracking software that is part of a larger picture of ripping - encoding - burning a medium for our own enjoyment. A medium that is just as distressed about losing intellectual property rights.

The crackers become the crackees...I love DVD2ONE and hope it prospers as well as grows in features.

:D WF

Yes it is slightly ironic, but if we own the DVD's, I see no problem in making a backup, esp for those w/ kids, nephews, nieces, grandkids, etc. As far as I'm concerned, I spent hundreds if not thousands to put together my DVD collection and I'll surely be pissed (to put it lightly) if anyone ruins em!

[armyb77]

I'm sorry if this makes anybody mad but I think this thread should be shutdown! Threads like this only end up increasing the spead of the warez version. Respect the programers Erwin and Rene, and refrane from these kinds of posts. In my humble opinion This product is not very expensive, and everyone should support the writers! If this product cost in the Hundreds of dollars like some programs I could understand the want to not pay, but is $40 going to break the bank? So will a moderator please shutdown the post.

Thanks
Armyb77

[Dimsum]

Well I don't know who ticked you off, but if you actually read the messages posted - nobody is offering Warez, no body is linking to warez and no body is supporting warez.

Incase you missed it - A large part of the delay in DVD2One from v1.0 to v1.0.1 was the authors stressing that they need to improve the security of the product.

What the rest of us in this thread have been gently (and I stress - gently!) discussing is that with any software there is a difficult divide between improving the productivity and improving the security, something that has been clearly shown in DVD2One.

You turning up and suddenly shouting "shut this thread" is not going to change the real world reality that is in the paragraph above. Indeed Doom9 mods have posted in this discussion and If they felt that this thread was "dangerous" - I am sure they would have shut it.

All the rest of us are doing is discussing and commenting on something that is never going to go away.

To reiterate some of the points you made - Some people love the product and will pay for it hands down - others won't, guess what? these people wouldn't have paid for it even if it was $1. $40 is nothing to some people and a lot to others - so again you stressing this will not change real world views. Those who will buy it, WILL buy it, and those who won't, NEVER will.

[armyb77]

Just letting people know that it has been cracked already is enough! People arn't stupid they know were to look for these warez sites, and if we post information that it has been cracked then these waze versions will spread more rapidly. Regardless if you arn't breaking any forum rules, you should do the right thing which would be to private message Rene or Erwin of the Hack and not spread it all over the forum. No body ticked me off, and i'm still not mad, I just don't see the point in advertising the fact that a pirated version exists.

Thanks for listening
Armyb77

[vljenewein]

One point I wish to comment on, is at least I can save my copy of DVD2one with it's loooonnngggg code.. and if I have the need to re-format (been there...done that too) then I have the program and code. This is what we are doing when we are backing up DVDs.. saving what might not be easily replacable.

I just wish Microsoft had done something similar. I build and tweak our home computers. 3 in all. My wife, daughter and I all use Abit motherboards and all have Windows XP. It's a real pain to change out a motherboard etc and have to get ahold of MS to re-activeate the operating system...again. I sometimes upgrade my computer and my 8 year old daughter get's my working "old" MB and some stuff. Keeps her's updated as then that one get's built or buried. But we now have 2 computers that all of a sudden ended up with different configurations.. hence.. "ring...ring... Microsoft?? I need a code for my computer! *S*

I'm pretty naieve.. and must lead a sheltered existence. I did not know anyone had managed to overcome MS activation code.

[int 21h]

And valid serials for any of the XP products can be bruteforced by a 1ghz+ in about 15 minutes.

[e5p1der]

Originally posted by armyb77
Just letting people know that it has been cracked already is enough! People arn't stupid they know were to look for these warez sites, and if we post information that it has been cracked then these waze versions will spread more rapidly.

For those that never had any intentions of buying this product, like you say, "aren't stupid" and most likely already know where to get this product illegaly! So by posting it, I don't think will spread any quicker. Thieves will be thieves. We're just pointing the fact that no matter how much time, effort & $$$ is put towards locking this product, it's a losing battle. So let's keep the "legal" users happy so they can refer their friends, etc. to support this product too. I for one think this is an excellent product!

[MackemX]

If it's out there, the people who want it know where to look, so talking about it doesn't help them find it unless of course links or names are shown

I would be none the wiser reading this thread as where to go to get such things but I sometimes wonder if anybody has a computer that has 100% legal software or content on it

I guess the majority of people won't have paid for and legally own everything on their computer, and even less if you take personal possessions not computer related into consideration

so what's gets me is that all the people who moan about warez, copies, crackers etc etc, mustn't have any other illegal content on their computer

that means they have never borrowed and installed something their friends or relatives have, downloaded or bought a copy of somesort (not just computer related). If you have then you you fall into the same category as the people you moan about, be it on a smaller scale

So all you are doing is calling the kettle black but you yourself are a lighter shade of black

please please please, don't get upset if you don't have anything illegal at all in your possessino tho

and I do believe in supporting the little guys before that is thrown at me also, but if you do have something illegal then you have still ripped someone off be it a small one man business or big corporation

just my opinion remember that, so please don't shout or get upset by it but feel free to comment civilly before this thread eventually gets closed