GKnot 0.27 vs DVX

[Frisco]

Hej

I have used GordianKnot since version 0.15.5.alpha and it is great, but it is not up to date. We can not use DivX 5.03 or Avisynth 2.5 (and I dount know if there is comming an update), so I have been looking for another program.

And the replacement may be DVX, http://www.planetdvb.net/dvx/ program of Dolemite.

It is so easy to use, it is professional made and then it is OPEN SOURCE.

Perhaps DVX is the next GordianKnot 2 ???

Hej Frisco

[binky the stunt cat]

i'll try it eventually, but i'll probably stick with GK.
The only reason i'd change is the DivX 5 customisation...*hint* *hint* :p

[hakko504]

A combination I've found very useful is GKnot and DivX5Enc. DVX is a more versatile solution though, but I haven't tested it thoroughly yet, partly because I'm not sure if I want to re-download the .NET framework it requires. Threw out W98SE a few weeks ago in favour of W2K and have tried to only reinstall the proggies I want to use.

[maurus]

A combination I've found very useful is:

GKnot 0.27
+
DivX5Enc 1.11 (compressibility test)
+
VirtualdubMod 1.4.13.1 (manual codification)
or
DivX5Enc 1.11 (automatic codification)

[MaXiMuS]

:devil: .NET framework :devil:

[stax76]

The only reason i'd change is the DivX 5 customisation


codec support is one of the outstanding features in DVX, in fact there is no difference between VDMod manually and DVX but in DVX it is a lot easier. You can change codec settings with the original codec panel of the codec of your choice for the first, the second/Nth passes and the credits separately and simply type in the number off passes. For all this you don't have to use a joblist.

[Frisco]

@hakko504 and maurus
I also used GKnot and DivX5Enc (both great programs), but I was looking for a program, that can do the hole process automaticly. DVX can and it is so easy to use. It could be fun, if you test it and give your opinion.

@MaXiMuS
The purpose with this thread is not a discussion for or against ".NET framework", so pleace dont start a discussion in this thread. I want to use a grest program (whit DivX 5.03 and Avisynth 2.5) and the list is long whit DVX (from http://www.planetdvb.net/dvx/):
Input formats: AVI, D2V, VOB, MPG, PVA, VDR, M2V, MPV and more
Output formats: DivX, XviD, MP3, Ogg Vorbis, AC3, MP2 and more
Audio Encoder: BeSweet, VirtualDub, VirtualDubMod
VirtualDub or VirtualDubMod can be invoked to make advanced settings for instance to cut
Full featured DivX menu
Original Xvid menu
Compressibility check
Special credits treatment
Overhead calculation
Bitrate correction after audio encoding
Bitrate correction after credits encoding
Auto detection for the correct aspect ratio
AviSynth menu with presets for the popular filters
AviSynth filter selection with around 100 AviSynth filters, filter quick search and filter help
The AviSynth editor supports Syntax Highlighting
Around 30 macros that can be used in every script and commandline function
Settings can be saved as profiles
Full featured BeSweet menu
Support for two audio streams
Launch buttons with support for commandline with arguments and macros
Shutdone when encoding is finished
Support for language selection, subtitles, movie information, splitting
Commandline interface usefull for timer recordings
Joblist
Encoding modes Both Passes, Single Pass, First Pass, Second Pass usefull for for XviD using different settings in first and second pass
Popup tooltip
Log function

So MaXiMuS perhaps you also should test it, then you can see that ".NET framework" can be used to something good.

@Dolemite
GREAT PROGRAM

[stax76]

@Frisco

this feature list was not updated since version 2.5 with the old GUI, since then many improvements were made

[N_F]

Ok, you've at least convinced me to give DVX a shot...

[binky the stunt cat]

hmm, i just stick with the old avs creation with GK, run it thru V Dub, then mux in the audio with OggMux (i like ogg so there :P)

[RMCF]

Totally agree,

GK + DivxEnc with VirtualDubMod is the way I found it best.

[CHAOSMAN33]

gknot resolution tab is still better than any other programs out there. DVX's crop and resize are in 2 seperate windows, makes it harder to do advanced calculations. I do agree that dvx has way more custimizations, but its also very buggy.

[jernst]

I do agree that dvx has way more custimizations, but its also very buggy.

What kind of bugs are you speaking about ? (this way Dolemite might fix it before final release)

I'm using it everyday for DVDRip without encountering any problem... (I was also a fellow user of Gknot but I have to admit that DVX is now giving me far better results than Gknot because it's using up-to-date software and has a lot of nice features that Gknot don't has)

As for the resize/crop window I agree with you but I think it's nice to have one separate preview window without any controls on it.

[Babeinternational]

One good point for DVX is its DivX 5.0.3 and AVS 2.5 support. Because it is a PITA to decompose the encoding stuff (main intest of GK was to let you do the whole process without quitting, because if you use it just for cropping and resizing, there is simpler things to do).
Another good point is its choice of AVS filters: Circonvolution3d, Lanczos, its macro menu is a very good thing.
I haven't used it so much to have noticed some bugs. And yes, a single menu for cropping and resizing may be a good thing to add.
So to sum up, I find it more flexible than GK, and by now (so until a new GK or whatever its name) more useful.
Isn't there any way to make it without .NET framework?

[colordog]

Sorry to be a newbie -

Could someone clue me in on the .NET framework stuff, and how it relates to video? I thought .NET referred to a way of internet networking. Am I screwed up?

Are there any potential minus points to installing .NET?

[stax76]

Could someone clue me in on the .NET framework stuff, and how it relates to video? I thought .NET referred to a way of internet networking. Am I screwed up?


most people are scared of and complain about .NET and have absolutly no idea what it is. I'm probably not the best to describe it because I did not understand everything about .NET myself plus my expression possibilities are limited. I don't know somebody in this forum who knows better so I will try. As far as I know .NET was created to be the successor of COM. You must think .com and .net it must be be something about the internet but this is not true. COM means Component Object Model. NET is about component based software which is plattform und language independent which can easy be distributed and connected via networks. The vision of Microsoft is to connect everything not only PC's maybe smartphones, video recorder, refrigerator. I don't if it could be useful to connect a refrigerator so let's just say everything. On each of this devices there must be a .NET framework installed. The .NET Framework you install on your PC mainly consists of a runtime which is called the Common Language Runtime or short CLI and a class library. 20 MB is not much when you think the class library has thousands of classes and even compilers for C# and VB .NET are included. The compilers of each language don't compile to native maschine code like C or Pascal compilers, they compile to Microsoft Intermediate Language code or short MSIL code. This code is similar don't matter if it was created with C# or VB .NET compiler so .NET is language independent. DVX is build with two different languages VB .NET and C#. Most popular .NET languages are VB .NET and C# but there are a lot other .NET languages, almost all languages are already available for .NET. Microsoft biggest competitor in development tools Borland puts most of their resources in .NET, they are working on a C# and a Delphi solution for .NET atm so Delphi for .NET will be available soon too. The biggest advantage of .NET is productivity and ease of use and great possibilty's. A .NET programmer can programm everything with the language of his choice because the .NET class library has classes for almost every programming task, he don't have to learn different languages and techniques like php, com etc because everything can be done with the framework. If somebody don't believe .NET is fun to work with go and get free development environment SharpDevelop written in C# and the free .NET SDK. It includes everything you need to develop .NET programs, full docu is included. SharpDevelop is getting better everyday, it has even a form designer. I think .NET has a lot advantages and I don't know anybody who wasn't totally happy working with it. Of course there are disadvantages like it don't perform like C because it uses a runtime so it can't be used for time critical tasks like video processing and everybody has second thoughts about the company that created it but overall I think it's a good thing with a bright future. I think it's already offical .NET is the new standard of Windows programming. It's probably not a good description of .NET but better than nothing I think

[Morbo]

Why I use the Gknot method and Vdubmod:

Every clip you encode is different.I use DIVX,Xvid,Mpeg2,Mpeg1,whatever its for.

For instance,I wanted to make a backup/spare of Blues Brothers I could take around on my laptop and jam too.

The Movie is 2hours,37 min(Dir Cut).

Id like to see a one for all solution,but it would require you to pay 2ooo pounds and would STILL have to configure it for "special" clips.

Hence why,I do whatever I want.
Simpsons(Svcd)
Futurama(Svcd)
Sopranos(Svcd)
Samurai Jack(DIVX,wished Id used Xvid)

Blues Brothers one 698meg cd,REAL Video 9.

I use whatever I want by how much Quality I want to keep.

Sorry for the Rant,
I just wanted to flex my fingers:D

Cheers!!!

[stax76]

gknot resolution tab is still better than any other programs out there. DVX's crop and resize are in 2 seperate windows, makes it harder to do advanced calculations.


I wrote the crop dialog new in RC 26, much better now imho (than the old one)

[Babeinternational]

Nobody will deny .NET can be useful. Problem is this by essence should be GPL. This is not question of M$, if they give their source code everyone will be fine. But I am way to off topic.

[wingphil]

can anyone help me out as to whether there will be any issues of compatibility with having gknot and dvx installed at the same time? e.g. in order to take full advantage, you would need avisynth 2.5 and divx5.0.3, which would break gknot. you could run dvx with the old versions, but then what would be the point?

[jernst]

Nobody will deny .NET can be useful. Problem is this by essence should be GPL. This is not question of M$, if they give their source code everyone will be fine. But I am way to off topic.

As far as I know nobody has Windows sources and TheWef hadnt vb runtime dll sources as well and nobody complained about it.

can anyone help me out as to whether there will be any issues of compatibility with having gknot and dvx installed at the same time? e.g. in order to take full advantage, you would need avisynth 2.5 and divx5.0.3, which would break gknot. you could run dvx with the old versions, but then what would be the point?

Yes you're right, but as gknot cannot take advantage of latest avisynth and divx (and xvid) if you still want to keep gknot because you prefer the gui/features you can still build your avisynth script with it and open it with DVX. This way you won't have any issue. If you don't like DVX you can still uninstall it and then reinstall DivX 5.02 and old avisynth.

[dBlue]

Just a note, Gknot is 100% compatible with Avisynth 2.5 but not Divx 5.0.3.

Browsing thru the screenshot of DVX and noticed it doesn't support SSE II/iDCT 5 yet. For those with Pent 4, it will speed the encoding up as megp2dec3 does optimise with SSE II.

[stax76]

Nobody will deny .NET can be useful. Problem is this by essence should be GPL.


I think that would mean everybody must licence his .NET code under GPL which don't make sense because somebody who writes code should have the choice to license his code like he wants to.


e.g. in order to take full advantage, you would need avisynth 2.5 and divx5.0.3, which would break gknot.



Browsing thru the screenshot of DVX and noticed it doesn't support SSE II/iDCT 5 yet. For those with Pent 4, it will speed the encoding up as megp2dec3 does optimise with SSE II.


in DVX you can use the programs and codecs of your choice, there are almost no limitations compared to doing everything manually. DVX uses some AviSynth functions that are only in AviSynth 2.5 available which is afaik Limiter() used by the AviSynth menu and Info() used by the AviSynth script preview but you still can use DVX.

[jernst]

Originally posted by dBlue
Just a note, Gknot is 100% compatible with Avisynth 2.5 but not Divx 5.0.3.

Thank you for pointing this out I didn't know about it.

Browsing thru the screenshot of DVX and noticed it doesn't support SSE II/iDCT 5 yet. For those with Pent 4, it will speed the encoding up as megp2dec3 does optimise with SSE II.
I'm not an expert in SSE II but having myself a P4 and using DVX I can tell you that mpeg2dec3 works without problems here.

[colordog]

Since DVX is fully compatible with VDubMod and AviSynth 2.5, can you force DVX to do YV12 to gain a speed increase? How would this be done?

[BiaTch 5.0]

OT,

Which resize filter would be Neutral Bicubic in DVX?

Thanks

[seewen]

Originally posted by colordog
Since DVX is fully compatible with VDubMod and AviSynth 2.5, can you force DVX to do YV12 to gain a speed increase? How would this be done?

Simply install Avisynth 2.5, configure DVX to use VdubMod ( "EXTRA"->"SETTINGS"->"PATH" , then check "use VirtualDubMOD" ).

Then simply use Mpeg2Dec3.dll ( it's the default choice in DVX ), and your process will stay in YV12().


Bye

P.S.
If you have a doubt for colorspace, simply open the Preview-windows, and hit "i" key. You will see the actual colorspace.

[seewen]

Originally posted by BiaTch 5.0
OT,

Which resize filter would be Neutral Bicubic in DVX?

Thanks

Bicubic "Neutral" ( called like that in GK ) =

BicubicResize(W, H, 0, 0.5).

But you should really try :

FastBicubicResize(W, H, 0, 0.5)

The result is not too differents, but it's really much faster.

-----------------

So in DVX simply choose resize "Bicubic(soft)", then open the Avisynth Editor ( F4 ), and replace

BicubicResize(%target_width%,%target_height%)

with

BicubicResize(%target_width%,%target_height%,0,0.5)

or

FastBicubicResize(%target_width%,%target_height%,0,0.5)



bye

P.S.
"Sharp" Bicubic = BicubicResize(Width, Height, 0, 0.75)

[Wulven]

I just gave DVX a try today based on this thread, and I must say it is very nice. I think especially from a noob (me) point of view, but it seems VERY customizable for the "hardcore". I know people will always like to do things manually of they can, but I set up a bunch of presets, and everything goes REAL nice.

Of course a couple gripes, namely the crop/resize screen, and I like GK's resize slider much better.

Keep up the good work.

[Crawler]

I have been a long time GKnot user (thanks for the great tool WEF!), but after doing about a dozen encodes with DVX I have to say it clearly beats GK, hands down!

Since the time it became apparent that GK would not be updated to support the newest trends like vorbis sound, XVID or divx 5.0.3, nor would he release the source code so someone could fix it for him, I started looking for an alternative, and have found DVX to be the most powerful tool available, now I can encode my XVID's with Vorbis sound to OGM in one step!!!

What I like best is the completely configurable BeSweet support, sound encoding directly from the VOB's, support for newest DIVX and XVID and the integrated script editor. And best of all, a developer patiently integrating the latest suggestions of his fan base (often within a few hours!!!).

Thanx for all your hard work Dolemite - I would not be suprised to see DVX become the new GKnot!

Crawler

[stax76]

Of course a couple gripes, namely the crop/resize screen, and I like GK's resize slider much better.


I'm totally happy with the new Crop dialog which supports AutoCrop (using AviSynth AutoCrop plugin) and cropping with the mouse wheel which is the most comfortable way I think. Some people are not as happy than I, there is a discussion in the support forum about the cropping dialog, your input would be appreciated. There are no plans to add a trackbar for resizing but it could be done with a plugin with any .NET language with very few lines code. I would like to do it but have no time because I'm working on a AviSynth filter description editor which is important I think

[arablover]

I would like to try out DVX.

But it took me ages to actually get to know how to use Gordian Knot.

Why not past a step by step guide to help people migrate from Gnot?

Cheers.


Jeremy

[jernst]

Why not past a step by step guide to help people migrate from Gnot?

DVX comes with full guides and help files in several languages. ATM they are not finished (we hope they will be before DVX 3.0 gets final) but you could find them usefull already (so they are not as complete as the one of Doom9 on Gknot).

They are best viewed from the programs using the provided .chm file but an online version of the documentation is also available: Manual (http://dvx.sf.net/help/)

Hope this helps,
jernst

p.s. If you have questions DVX board member will be surely pleased to solve it.

[stax76]

Of course a couple gripes, namely the crop/resize screen, and I like GK's resize slider much better.


RC 28 was released today, all this was rewritten again, much better then old version imho

[vorbis]

dolemite what i think would be a nice feature would be installing avisynth 2.5 only in the vdubmod directory and linking to it from there for preview etc. this way dvd2svcd and other programs on the pc would be unaffected. Dvx would still get the benefits of yv12.

[Babeinternational]

I agree with vorbis, that could be interesting to have both AVISynth versions available on DVX (one you could use with VdubMod for yv12, and 1.08 somewhere for its stability and filter support).
And it could also be good to call Convolution3dyv12 "Convolution3dyv12", so as you can use Convolution3d for not yv12 sources.
And while I'm here, can you add SmoothDeinterlace in your filter list (and deinterlace choices)? Despite its habit to increase slightly filesize, it is a very good way to deinterlace (especially DV).

I have now to say that after weeks of testing, DVX has really surprised me in a good way (never thought you could have such an easy and "messable" interface), and it has replaced GK in my everyday use. Now that GK is more likely going to explode than to increase, I'll use DVX.

[Wulven]

I like the RC28, the calculator is great, especially added to the crop/resize screen. I am getting used to the mousewheel crop as well.

[DK]

Why not past a step by step guide to help people migrate from Gnot?


maybe this could help a little bit:

DVX 3 Guide (http://www.atlandide.net/~uncasms/de/dvx/dvx3_english.htm)

[Emp3r0r]

Wow Dolemite, I've been gone and you've made ton's of progress. I'm downloading your newest version now to test it out.Of course a couple gripes, namely the crop/resize screenI'd like to see DVX crop and resize work like DVD2XCD (http://jvance.com/projects.aspx?p=DVD2XCD) crop and resize does. The C# code is there, do what you want with it as I havn't had the free time to finish the project.

PS: have you tried Managed DirectX for video display?

[hakko504]

comment about dead link removed

[DK]

sorry about the incorrect link.

should work now.

[wingphil]

does dvx come bundled with compatible versions of avisynth, vdubmod etc or will i have to hunt round for these? or will it work with any versions?

[M-M-C]

Originally posted by wingphil
does dvx come bundled with compatible versions of avisynth, vdubmod etc or will i have to hunt round for these? or will it work with any versions?
it comes bundled with every single bit of software you need and it has a nice little online-updater. this updater checks DVX itself AND the other programs like avisynth etc.
imho DVX is the best encoding-tool out there right now and this onlineupdater really saves time and nerves ;)

[Wulven]

Heh, the program is evolving so fast that that guide doesn't look at all like DVX anymore.

[stax76]

I'd like to see DVX crop and resize work like DVD2XCD crop and resize does.


could you please explain a little more precise, you mean smart crop? I have also a suggestion for you, modify ChapterGrabber code to use it as DVX plugin


have you tried Managed DirectX for video display?


I heard that MS did a good job on this api but no I don't work with it because installing DX9 would be required

[Emp3r0r]

could you please explain a little more precise, you mean smart cropWell, I hate to say anything without trying the newest version of DVX (actually I did try, but it didn't open my D2V file) but I like to see all the information I need to see while I crop and resize. For example, look at this screenshot (http://jvance.com/files/cropresize.jpg)
Step 0: I can load my audio files, and choose my desired overall size, which finds video bitrate.
Step 1: I crop off all black
Step 2: I choose a smart crop method to reduce AR error
Step 3: I set for anamorphic
Step 4: I resize the video until I have a decent amount of bits for each pixel in a frame (aka quality estimate).
Step 5: I choose my resize type based upon the quality estimate.

What I like about this layout is it allows you access to everything you need at once (like GKnot) to perform the task at hand: cropping and resizing.I have also a suggestion for you, modify ChapterGrabber code to use it as DVX pluginOk, I'll look into it.

[stax76]

Well, I hate to say anything without trying the newest version of DVX (actually I did try, but it didn't open my D2V file) but I like to see all the information I need to see while I crop and resize. For example, look at this screenshot

What I like about this layout is it allows you access to everything you need at once (like GKnot) to perform the task at hand: cropping and resizing.


the calculator dialog has everything important and can be used with any other dialog.


actually I did try, but it didn't open my D2V file


did you install the latest SysPack? Unlike other tools DVX uses multi media api's to get the source info's in order to be compatible with all AviSynth source filter and and AviSynth plugin source filters. Usually this is no problem but there are some ds filters that cause trouble with ds and mci (wraps ds nowadays I think) for instance ogg subtitle mixer and VobSub below 2.20. If you have a proper AviSynth installed and a proper script, there should be no problem

[Emp3r0r]

did you install the latest SysPack?Yes, I installed all that. I'm not really sure what the problem is but when I choose my source d2v file it seems to be loading it but shows the following preview window as if it failed. http://jvance.com/files/preview.gif

The d2v file is fine and works great with the following avisynth script

MPEG2Source("F:\DVD\Panic Room\panicroom.d2v")

[colordog]

Howdy DVX-philes...

After looking at DVX, I have to admit that I'm pretty impressed. I love the "Add Script" function in the AVScript Editor, where you can scroll through them all and have them auto-inserted into the script.

The one thing that's stumping me (switching over from GKnot) is how to schedule more than one movie encode at a time? I manually decrypt VOBS with DVDdecrypter, and then manually execute DVD2AVI on it. I open up the .d2v file in DVX, choose all my settings, blah, and then keep hitting the "next" button at the bottom.

Finally, it shows me the script that it will use, I hit "next", and the DVX windows closes and is replaced by the "DVX Encoding Process" window. BeSweet starts, then VDubMod, etc., and I get a great movie at the end. But how can I tell it to start another movie after that?

If I reopen DVX, and click on the big "Jobs" button, all the buttons are greyed out. So I don't know how to set up DVX to encode all day, and the few guides out there don't explain that.

[jernst]

Instead of hitting "next" button, just click on the jobs button when you are ready and you'll see that the buttons won't be grayed out. They should be grayed out only of you didn't selected any source yet.

In the jobs dialog, click on add, close the dialog, configure your next movies the same way and when you are ready to start the whole thing click on the jobs button and then click on "run" (or execute, I don't remember).