ProCoder vs CCE

[Mole]

Anybody who can tell me the difference?

Which one is faster and which one has better MPEG 1 and 2 engine?

I know CCE tends to soften things a bit in order to get rid of macroblocs. How's ProCoder compared?

Thanks.

[mrbass]

procoder uses Ligos MPG Encoder 3.5 for mpeg1 and mpeg2(at least the lastest version of procoder does). It's $79 btw.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

so ,then ligos mpeg encoder uses procoder's 3.5 engine too?
(heheh)

[Mole]

Thanks.

I tried out some tests and I'm dissapointed. The resulting video contained a lot of smearing. Even slight motions produces so much smearing that often people's faces were almost unreconizable till they stopped moving their heads and the picture stabilizes more.

I encoded with the highest quality setting, which for an huffyuv compressed AVI file, got about 15 fps on the Athlon XP 1800+.
This is about same speed as I'd get with TMPGEnc, but TMPGEnc produce much higher quality plus you can use toolame for the audio part.

The version of ProCoder that I tried was 1.01.35.
Not sure if they've used the Ligos engine on this version though.

[Ookami]

Originally posted by mrbass
procoder uses Ligos MPG Encoder 3.5 for mpeg1 and mpeg2(at least the lastest version of procoder does). It's $79 btw.

:eek:

What?

mb1, where are you?

[mb1]

Originally posted by mrbass
procoder uses Ligos MPG Encoder 3.5 for mpeg1 and mpeg2(at least the lastest version of procoder does). It's $79 btw.
Ahemm, that is nonsense.

Procoder uses Ligos decoding technology for mpeg2.

The encoder part is completely from canopus itself.
And it is the best encoder for interlaced DV material btw.
Not so good for progressive DVD material ...

[Mole]

Oh, forgot to mention that the test I did was for a 25fps progressive 352x288 PAL clip compressed as VCD MPEG1.

I'm primary interested in the MPEG1 engine, so I haven't tested it with MPEG2.

[waldok]

I second mb1 about this.
I use both and from my experience, Canopus is really good for DV material and even for analog sources (I now encode all my famimy movies with it, ans final quality is really impressive).
CCE is the best for progressive material.
Speedwise, Procoder is pretty slow so I usually let it run overnight.


Waldok
:cool:

[onesoul]

Instead saying procoder is better at handling dv material, wouldn't be better to say it's better at interlaced material no matter what source it is?
And there are some people which works with progressive dv so I think they would be better off with CCE.

@mb1
Yes, I know you said interlaced dv material, but I think it is a good idea to make clear that the procoder does a good job at interlaced material and not because it's dv.

Did I make sense?

edit: @waldok, what did he use, a trumpet? :p

[waldok]

If you saw the movie "Throw Momma from the train", you would know what my quote is referring to :D
(but he indeed used a trumpet)

Waldok :cool:

[mb1]

Procoder and interlaced material:
Well, there are differences.
In my experience Procoder did also a very good job with interlaced analogue camera material (but I have only few for testing).

But a friend of mine (Kika) who owns an analogue camera reported that Procoder did some jobs not very well (unsharp, problems with analogue noise).
He prefers the old CCE version (with antinoise slider) and Tmpeg ...
I trust his eyes absolutely.
But as I said I have not that much analogue material.

Interlaced DVD material: I prefer CCE 2.66
Interlaced TV captures (analogue): I prefer Tmpeg.

All considerations are made under estimating best possible quality (of course with avisynth before encoder) and not time consumption.

[onesoul]

When we're talkin about pal, is there so many differences between interlaced dv and interlaced dvd?
I guess I will take the easier way and just only use cce.

[bugs7]

I tested procoder.
And for my test, procoder was better than CCE.

- source DVD "transpointing" Pal (3 first mn with out the x first black frames)
- m2v direct put in procoder ( I have the mpeg2 decoder package which it's not in the demo )

- out: CVD (anamorphique) Pal 2pass, avg 1000 max 2400 (i'm not sure for the max) Speed/Quality (3 tests): Mastering Quality -> Highest Quality -> ?Normal? (I don't remember).

CEE:
script avs with mpeg2dec, billinear resize..
3 pass
Same bitrate and min bitrate 500.

In this case procoder was better than CEE, but very slower!!
I don't know if this is right for NTSC (I never do NTSC).

[onesoul]

Instead of billinear, use bicubic or maybe lanczos and report back please.

[bugs7]

Not enought time to redo test sorry.
I' think (and i had read some think like that in some forum) that billinear is better than bicubic for reduce-resize ..
Perhapse this is the pal specificity which make me so optimistic.

Someone want to do test with pal DVD :?:

[onesoul]

People say that because it helps compressabilitie but I don't like bilinear resize compared to bicubic or laczos, it leaves the picture too much soft.

[DDogg]

procoder uses Ligos MPG Encoder 3.5 for mpeg1 and mpeg2(at least the lastest version of procoder does). It's $79 btw.

Mrbass, did you drop a decimal? This page shows it as 699.00

http://www.canopus.com//US/products/ProCoder/pm_procoder.asp


For interlaced NTSC DV I have never seen anything that approaches the quality (and I have used a few encoders). I don't know if it is the strength of the encoder, a unique set of filters or a combo of both, but it sure does a clearly superior job on my DV cam footage.

[Ookami]

Originally posted by DDogg
Mrbass, did you drop a decimal? This page shows it as 699.00

http://www.canopus.com//US/products/ProCoder/pm_procoder.asp


For interlaced NTSC DV I have never seen anything that approaches the quality (and I have used a few encoders). I don't know if it is the strength of the encoder, a unique set of filters or a combo of both, but it sure does a clearly superior job on my DV cam footage.

He was refering to the Ligos encoder price...

BTW, nice to see that you're still around :) .

[DDogg]

He was refering to the Ligos encoder price...
Got it, that's what I get when I post at 5 in the morning :)

OT
BTW, nice to see that you're still around

Aw shucks, thanks ... :)

Nice to see you have not burned out (like I did). You have mucho stamina,Ookami!

[waldok]

DDogg,

Thanks to you I discovered the joy of quick 1 pass VBR encoding with DVD2SVCD a long time ago :)
I can tell you your posts about it at the time were more than helpful to me !

Pleased to see you back here :)

Waldok:cool:

[vmesquita]

Procoder is amazing with interlaced noisy sources. It does a much better job with my home movie VHS (aiming CVD). Even filtering with PeachSmoother, GrapeSmoother and 2DCleaner and feeding CCE,I couldn't get any close to Procoder results, with almost no mosquito or macroblocks. Of course, CCE with all this filters still run 2/3 times faster than Procoder in mastering mode. But you only encode one time to watch many...
With my interlaced Satellite captures, it is only slightly better than CCE+Convolution3D. But takes about 3/4 times the time. Since I am encoding music videos, I don't care to wait 20 minutes instead of 5, but the difference is very subtle and I only noticed in my tests after watching 5 times. If I were encoding longer stuff I might go with CCE.
I didn't compare with CCE n-pass modes, since previously I have tried it and saw no improvement.

[]'s
Vmesquita