The Future of DVD2ONE !!! (to Rene &Erwin)

[Antonio S.]

First of all, I don't want to be rude...

For me DVD2one is one of the best creations of this year. However some modifications most be done soon. Options to decide final size of compression, option to split vobs instead of transcoding, and an option to include menus and extras, are a most to this program in order to succeed. It is not a good move to take this programers out of their work to waste their time to solve problems of their site and/or answer post. Guys, time is money, and I know that your program, with proper modifications, can be better that DVDxCOPY and INSTANTCOPY, but not with this first version. Soon InstantCopy from Pinnacle is going to be out, taking from you, CUSTOMERS. At this moment you should hire more people to work in your project, so you may have all the time for DVD2one. It is crucial!!!

Regards,

Antonio S.

[DenFussell]

Antonio S.-

I agree that most of your points are valid and worthy of attention.

However, I don't know that I agree with the urgency you place on it. I would rather see a well planned, well de-bugged product take a little longer, which is currently outside the box of the normal developer's aproach, which seems to be, get the next version out regardless of what new bugs might have been introduced and overlooked just to satisfy the hunger of the crowd waiting breathlessly for the next download.

I sometimes get the impression that some of us are professional beta testers as opposed to a user looking for a solution to a need.

The reliability and repeatability of the first edition DVD2One product is so refreshing as to be unbelievable. The authors have demonstrated an ability to deliver a product that delivers exactly what it claims to. How many can say that?

Insofar as the Pinnacle product is concerned, I have been involved with Pinnacle products for some time now and the expectation that their product will approach the functionality, reliability and ease of use that this first version of DVD2One demnostrates is rather like expecting Windows 1.0 to multitask.

Respectfully, I think we're all spoiled.

I am still amazed at the performance of this product. I sat down last night and watched one of the DVDs I recently b/u'd with DVD2one and watched it carefully from start to finish, going over and over certain scenes looking for problems and I still can't believe this inexpensive, simple product has replaced the tedious process I used to face with TMPGEnc and Rempeg2.

My feedback to the developers is to stay the course you've demonstrated thus far and do everything you can to make sure your future releases are as troublefree and reliable as your first one.

Good Luck!

[Jayce]

let me enlighten you all, i (rene) am the person who does all the webstuff etc leaving some things to be done by Erwin (cause i still have a fulltime dayjob making code for a other company)

Erwin already have most features mentioned ready and build in into the 1.01, but since the initial release got pirated a bit to quick he's busy building in a new security system.
And that costs time, so the only persons to blame for the delay are
the kind people of ACME for spreading the keygenerator for release 1.0

We will not release the new version until the new security works, but as things are looking right now it might be about aprox. one week until we are ready to release the 1.01 version.

I'am terribly sorry if it caused you any inconvience, but you have most things to blame not on us but on the persons who are spreading the warez version of our software and the people responsible for that fine DDoS attack.

(not to mention that i'am getting closer and closer to the people doing that attack!)

Hiring extra people won't help cause they can't magicly solve our DDoS problems. Nor can they work on the extra features. DVD2one is a very complex piece of source code and working in a other person in that source code isn't something you pick up in two days.

I hopefully informed you all with the current standings, if you have any more questions feel free to ask them.

Rene
DVD2one.com

[Will Hay]

Originally posted by Antonio S.
First of all, I don't want to be rude...
A lesson learnt from www.vcdhelp.com eh? :)
Originally posted by Antonio S.
It is not a good move to take this programers out of their work to waste their time to solve problems of their site and/or answer post. Guys, time is money, and I know that your program, with proper modifications, can be better that DVDxCOPY and INSTANTCOPY, but not with this first version. Soon InstantCopy from Pinnacle is going to be out, taking from you, CUSTOMERS. At this moment you should hire more people to work in your project, so you may have all the time for DVD2one. It is crucial!!!
I can't speak for the developers of this program but you clearly have no idea of the fundamental principles of economics.
Assuming I had 1% of the intellegince the developers of dvd2one have, I would not have done many things differently.
A small industry such as my soon to be released (imaginary) programe: 'dvd2twenty' was written to meet the demands of an every changing specialist society. There had been numerous programs out in the years before who made an impact such as this and then they were soon superceeded.
Mine will be no different.
A small venture such as my 'dvd2twenty' can't afford to employ more staff and anyway, what would they do?
The fundamental proceedure for a new release such as this is get it right, and the only way to do that is seek feedback from your customers.
That is why Ihave one of my staff spending time on a forum.
The three-man team I have to develop 'dvd2twenty' don't have the financies to match the support and more importantly marketing power of 'pinnacle', to suggest such is pure rubbish so why bother trying?
I can appreciate people are eager for release 2 of my 'dvd2twenty' program but let's put things into perspective: I'd love to earn millions but I'm not prepared to take risks with either the program or my livelyhood.
And also, there's a strong argument for leaving this program as it is, with only minor option changes. 1:1 disk copy, multi-episode disks and batch encoding yes, but the beauty of this program (for me) is it's simplicity and, combined with the super-fast enoding time is one of the reasons (hopefully) so many people have bought it.
If you want to do all your <words I don't understand> stuff then fine, let's hopefully have an add-on but I don't need to change my (modest) 25" tv to a 55 plasma thingamybob super-duper screen and I don't intend to watch a movie six times to compare it with the original, I just want to backup my movies in as quick a time as possible in a reasonable quality so my children can't destroy the originals.
I'm thinking of creating a new website, www.keep-dvd2one-simple-to-use-for-the-novices.com, what do you think?
Will

[drmih]

I wonder if informing everybody that you're waiting to release the new version until the new security works is the greatest of statements. It seems a bit like waving a red rag at a bull and no doubt the hackers will double their efforts to get the new version done in double quick time.

[mpucoder]

This thread is bordering on a flame war, so let's keep it on the border, and not over the line.
We should respect the authors' right to grow their enterprise as they see fit, marvel at their accomplishments to date, and be thankful they even read this forum, as they have their own "official" forum for their customers.

As a side note: DVDXCopy had to enlarge their staff in three areas, box-stuffers (because they have a physical product as well as internet), lawyers to defend themselves against the MPAA, and customer support (lots of them) to answer complaints. Of course all that required more business management, human resources director, chief financial officer, and so on to reduce the profit. But no more programmers.

[Cybex]

I have been using DVD2ONE for several weeks now and I think that it is great. Sure there are features that I would like, but for a initial release, it is an amazing product. That is why I bought it.

I have only run into one disk that I own that I could not backup with it. It is "In the Bedroom" and I got an encrypted data error. I think it has something to do with branching on the disk. I had to use DVDXCOPY for it - which is not my preferred method.

My two top requested features are: Multi-episode disk backups and full backups (menu and all - or menu and selected features)

Keep up the great work!

Cybex

[atreides93]

Do you have anyone beta testing the new version?

[Jayce]

Hrmm no, besides Erwin and Me nobody gets any version until we think it is ready for release.
This sounds stuborn, i admit but it's just the way we always been making software (remote selector, drive info and now DVD2one)

We both have a rather large collection of DVD's with all sorts of different methods of authoring to test with DVD2one.

[Cybex]

I have a correction to my earlier post. DVDXCOPY did not work either. So right now I have not been able to make a backup copy of this movie.

Cybex

[Will Hay]

Originally posted by drmih
I wonder if informing everybody that you're waiting to release the new version until the new security works is the greatest of statements. It seems a bit like waving a red rag at a bull and no doubt the hackers will double their efforts to get the new version done in double quick time.

Not only am I in full agreement but I doubt these security features will have much of an impact :(
I say that because of the sheer volume of warez on the internet already.
Will

[Jayce]

We will see what happens, it's just that we can make it a bit harder for the warez scene.

Complety stopping it is a mission impossible, but to make it a bit harder isn't ;)

[DenFussell]

Cybex

I did In the Bedroom earlier today with no problems, you may have a defective disc.

Knock on wood, I've done probably 30 discs with DVD2One without a hitch.

I think some folks may be creating their own problems by using IFOEdit to modify the DVD2One generated ifo's.\

Good Luck!

[A_Klingon]

Hi Rene. I'm far more interested in what dvd2one *can* do already than in what everyone on the planet would like to see it do.

Couldn't care less about menus; extra 'boner' material(s). One movie, one disc. Period. Decent visual quality. You've got it.

Problem: A gentleman, with your permission, was kind enough to offer me a (non-trial) copy for evaluation. He also gave me the reg code which I tried to enter within your website. Reg rejected. There are some who suggest that the *trial* version can be registered - it cannot. What to do?

Initially, with trial version, I have had one success, three failures. Frankly, I am *amazed* that you have been able to maintain chapter points with the transcoded files. Awesome! Mostly, a transcoded file plays back like an extended vhs video tape, requiring the use of the FF->> and <<-RW buttons on the remote control.

The failures with the trial version gave me only (about) 6 or 7 nearly-static screen images (with audio), then froze. The images were *very* clean and clear, but I got no standard motion (!!!) Then my dvd player 'hangs' (freezes).

The one success I had was with the Beatles' "A Hard Day's Night" by Miramax. The failures, all exhibiting the same problem described above, were, "The Sound Of Music"; "Lord Of The Rings-Fellowship"; and "Star Trek-IV-The Voyage Home". These ALL hang, only give me a few static screen images, and then freeze. On the other hand, 'A Hard Day's Night' plays back beautifully and perfectly.

I hope I will be able to download, from your site, something other than the 94k demo which, I'm assuming, is not "registerable".

Thanks for your help!

-- Mike --

[Jayce]

A gentleman, with your permission, was kind enough to offer me a (non-trial) copy for evaluation. He also gave me the reg code which I tried to enter within your website. Reg rejected. There are some who suggest that the *trial* version can be registered - it cannot. What to do?

Besides Erwin and Me, nobody else is handing out keys!
It looks like your key was made with a keygen, and we block those simple as that.


I hope I will be able to download, from your site, something other than the 94k demo which, I'm assuming, is not "registerable".

Sure you can,you have to buy the full-version instead of using a pirated version.
So until you do that, you won't be able to officialy use it, and download newer versions etc.
Maybe you can ask that 'gentleman' where you're legal key is? ;)

The other problems you describe sound like the well know problem with trial version, and does not excists in the full-version.

[Scarpad]

Jayce,

2 questions will there be another time trial demo of the new version? And will purchasing the program be a bit easier this time?

[xiaNaix]

Originally posted by Jayce
We will not release the new version until the new security works, but as things are looking right now it might be about aprox. one week until we are ready to release the 1.01 version.

I'am terribly sorry if it caused you any inconvience, but you have most things to blame not on us but on the persons who are spreading the warez version of our software and the people responsible for that fine DDoS attack.


Why bother? The cracking groups will ALWAYS find a way around it and your time will be wasted. There's no reason to make the legitimate users suffer.

[atreides93]

Yea I agree with that. I mean, they've cracked EVERYTHINg...Windows XP's activation was cracked, Autocad's dongle was cracked etc etc....nothing is uncrackable.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by xiaNaix
Why bother? The cracking groups will ALWAYS find a way around it and your time will be wasted. There's no reason to make the legitimate users suffer.

I agree. There's so many BIG softwares out there with intense copy protections that have being cracked so easily. A reputable program with a tight copy protection only invites crackers to see who cracks it first. It's definitely an ego thing to them. They most likely spend more of their lifetime cracking than sleeping.

[atreides93]

What really disgusts me though are these freeloaders who find the program useful and yet can't shell out $39 euro's to compensate the programmer. I mean..what the hell...that's like a couple of blank dvd-r's.

its not like we're talking about a huge company here.

[Jayce]

Originally posted by Scarpad
Jayce,

2 questions will there be another time trial demo of the new version? And will purchasing the program be a bit easier this time?

Both answers, yes :)

Erwin is working on a new registration system as we speak.

[Jayce]

Freeloaders or not, security is something that is going to be changed wether you agree or not. :)


Sorry, but thank our freeloading friends for the delay.
WE feel it's nescarry to protect our property a bit more.

It's not like you leave your door open at night, cause a burglar always find another way in your home, now do you?
Tought so.

[mpucoder]

This reminds me, the first time around someone (I can't remember who) shamelessly posted a link to the cracked version of DVD2One. I'm sure Doom9 took note of who it was, and if it happens again that person will be banned.
But, the correct thing to do if you discover a cracked version is to PM Jayce with the information. Do not post the fact that it has been cracked, as this will certainly lead to people searching and finding the crack before action can be taken.

[oggiedoggie]

Jayce: with the new security system, how will upgrading to the new version work for those of us who have it now? Will our existing numbers still work?

Very cool product. Makes life a lot simpler.

[Doom9]

@mpucoder: yes, there was a link. I removed it and gave the poster two strikes in accordance with forum rule6 (and I'll give out the same again to whoever violates rule6, be it about dvd2one or any other copyrighted program).

[vljenewein]

I cannot stress stongly enough how important it is to buy and use good quality DVD media. I have had success and then failure with the same brand of cheap Taiwan made CMC media and many times it led me to believe I had done something differently or wrong in the burn. Truth is the media can be so inferior that the burner has a hard time recording error free data onto the DVD.

Symptons: Freezes while watching a movie.. Pixilation (showing of pixels and such blurs), skips. complete shutdown of the movie. Also, most time it is not at the beginning, although it CAN be. Usually occurs with problems at the end of the movie. The outer edge is harder to burn correctly with data.

That's my thought for the evening. Have a great day and I'm pleased as punch with DVD2ONE. Quality is excellent!! Yeaaa Erwin and Rene !! Stop by our winery any time you're in Michigan for a free bottle of wine!! CHEERS!

[Antonio S.]

Soon InstantCopy from Pinnacle is going to be out, taking from you, CUSTOMERS...

Finally this happens. Today I download a demo version of Pinnacle InstantCopy 7. As soon as I use it, I will post results in proper forum...

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage.asp?Product_ID=1153&Langue_ID=2&SID=199

Antonio S.

[KeithXP]

Originally posted by Antonio S.
[B]Finally this happens. Today I download a demo version of Pinnacle InstantCopy 7. As soon as I use it, I will post results in proper forum...


Antonio S.,

Please report back. I am anxiously awaiting as well.

Thanks for the post!
KeithXP

[zwieber]

I'm downloading this as well.

Judging by the transfer rate there are a LOT of people downloading this. It'll take another 4 hours to download ... if not interrupted again ... I've been trying to get it for the past hour.

If this thing does the menu's then that's where my money will go. DVD2One had it's chance ... they decided to look into protecting against hackers instead of doing the 1:1 ... too bad ... that decision will cost them a lot more money then a keygen could have done.

And DVD2One will now release their 1.1, probably later today ... but if it doesn't do the menu's they will have lost the battle.

[sidders]

I have downloaded Instant copy, and am currently transcoding Training Day
You can adjust the quality of each title set (by PGC) and it tells you on the fly how much your overall DVD size is. You can strip languages, audio tracks etc out, which brings the size down

TRIAL VERSION THOUGH and AC3 is limited to 5 minutes. AT least we'll be able to see what ot does though.

Timewise, it says that it is going to take 210 minutes on my Athlon XP2100. I will post my results when it's done (unless I'm already out on the piss by them - it is Friday night after all!)

Sidders

[Scarpad]

Imagine the indecency of them trying to protect thier property. Now I agree it's a losing battle but I can't damn them for doing it. The way alot of people here talk you'd think they released an incomplete program. They did'nt they released a program that does what it does rather well. I wonder what price you'll pay for adding those menu's and features? And these will be the people screaming that they can see one macroblock in a dark scene during a 3 hour movie they copied with DVD2One <g> It's unreasonable to think that you can take the content of a reasonably well authored DVD and transfer it Lock , Stock, and Barrell to a 4.7 GB Single layer Disc and not lose quality. That's the bottom line

[zwieber]

Yes, quality will be lost, and I'm willing to sacrifice even more quality to get the menu's and extra's ... otherwise there is no point for me to work with DVD backups. I might as well just backup to VHS as I was doing in the past.
These are only backups remember ... the originals are always available when you need the high quality.

[Scarpad]

But then that same augument could be made for the extras, they are available to you when you want them, I can see the Menu, but the extras, no way, when I want to take the copy to a friends house to play on his crappy player that scratches my discs I still want to watch the movie in close to the same quality.

[mpucoder]

Originally posted by Antonio S.
Finally this happens. Today I download a demo version of Pinnacle InstantCopy 7. As soon as I use it, I will post results in proper forum...
Antonio S.
Despite the name, this is the proper forum. At the creation Doom9 told us all similar products would be discussed here along with DVD2One.

[Antonio S.]

Despite the name, this is the proper forum. At the creation Doom9 told us all similar products would be discussed here along with DVD2One.... Thank you "mpucoder"...

I just try it, the only thing that can describe InstantCopy is: AMAZING!!!

It is very easy to use. It can make copies of NON-ENCRYPTED DVD's. It can read them directly form your DVD player, or from your HD (however all the structure of the DVD must be in the folder). It has an automatic mode that can decrease the amount of each title without touching a button. Also you can adjust it manually allowing the user, the options of languages and subs, and also deciding the amount of compression for EACH title. First test that I made, gave me excellent results. If you want also, it can burn directly to a DVD-R. First I did an image, then burn the DVD. The only thing missing is a way to see the image before burning, however it has a preview mode that can allowed you to see it during transcoding. The demo is suppose to work for 15 days, transcoding all DVD with just 5 minutes of audio. However my copy done with InstantCopy have audio from the beginning to end.

I really can recomend it...

Antonio S.

[DenFussell]

Antonio S.-

How long does it take to complete a copy and how does the picture quality compare to DVD2One?

[Antonio S.]

Quality is similar to DVD2one. However DVD2one is faster. For example, in my first test movie with extras( about 5 hours long), was transcode in about 5 hours ( computer specs: 900 MHZ Athlon 256 ram ). Using DVD2one this can be transcode in about 60 minutes. However, everything is included ( main movie, menus, extras, etc. ) and all plays without errors...

Antonio S.

[atreides93]

Originally posted by zwieber
Yes, quality will be lost, and I'm willing to sacrifice even more quality to get the menu's and extra's ... otherwise there is no point for me to work with DVD backups. I might as well just backup to VHS as I was doing in the past.
These are only backups remember ... the originals are always available when you need the high quality.

This doesn't really make sense to me. A Backup is there in case your original gets trashed. What's the point of making a backup if the quality is crap? I'd rather backup the MOVIE, than the stupid extras.

[sidders]

This program is BRILLIANT!
It took just under 3 hrs to encode a 7gb DVD bit the quality is briliant! On a par with CCE!
I agree with everything Antonio S has said. Mine also had all teh audio, not just 5 mins as it was supposed to. Shame this will run out in 15 days.

What will happen now to DVD2One?

INSTANTCOPY IS THE BEST BACKUP PROGRAM I HAVE SEEN BAR NONE!!

Sidders

[Antonio S.]

atreides93 said:This doesn't really make sense to me. A Backup is there in case your original gets trashed. What's the point of making a backup if the quality is crap? I'd rather backup the MOVIE, than the stupid extras Even when you have a point here, there are some DVD's that can be processed with all its contents and still have excellent results. For example, if you have a DVD with 3.8 GB movie and 2 GB for the rest (extras and menu), you can reduce extras, keeping the original quality of the movie. As you know, if you reduce to much the size of your movie you will get poor quality. However for small reductions, this program is as good (or better) that DVD2one. So far, DVD's created with InstantCopy can be play in my DVD players with no problems, and everything can be done in a easy way.
As I post earlier, DVD2one is an efficient program, but some changes must be done SOON. With this changes it can be as good (or maybe better) than InstantCopy, but at this moment Pinnacle InstantCopy RULES...

Antonio S.

[mpucoder]

Originally posted by atreides93
This doesn't really make sense to me. A Backup is there in case your original gets trashed. What's the point of making a backup if the quality is crap? I'd rather backup the MOVIE, than the stupid extras.

A lot of people, myself included, use the "backup" copy and keep the original stored away safely. So they really aren't backups in the same sense as a computer backup, more like "working copies".

[Scarpad]

Antonio et all what movie sis you test this program with? I can see doing something like Sweet home Alabama or My Big Fat Greek Wedding and have the quality be excellent, small movie, only a few Extras. But how can it do something that is like a two hour movie with alot of Extras and Not seriously affect the quality of the movie. You're working with a finite amout of space on a DVDR, something has to suffer to get it all.

[sidders]

I did Training Day - 7gb
Extras were about 2gb, movie 5gb ish

I just reduced the extras more than I reduced the movie. Extras a little blocky, but i reduced them by about 50% so you would expect that.
Reduced the movie to 3.5gb, and it looks brilliant. Admittedly, I've not watched it all teh way through, but have skipped through and the quality seems on a par with CCE
It even burns the image too!

Only trouble is, as Antonio said, you can't previes the image, as Daemon Tools doesn;t support the image type.

Sidders

[Antonio S.]

@sidders:

Someone post in other forum that if you add, after the "xxx.pd1" image file, a ".VOB", it can be read by a program like WinDVD. I had not try it yet...

Antonio S.

[vljenewein]

Must be that instant copy take a wee bit longer than DVD2ONE?

[nhatduongchi]

Originally posted by Jayce
We will see what happens, it's just that we can make it a bit harder for the warez scene.

Complety stopping it is a mission impossible, but to make it a bit harder isn't ;)

*************

Just for your infomation, InstantCopy released a demo yesterday and already a "help" file for it floating on the net right now.

[mb1]

@nhatduongchi
Your war*z is Beta 7.0.0.080
Final Version is v091.

@Antonio
Simply load your pdi-Files into dvd2avi and scroll through for an easy quality check.
You can load the first pdi-File also into Bitrateviewer for bitrate viewing ;)

Maybe it would be a good idea to hexedit instantcopy to accept higher filesize setting.
I would love to set 4,6 GB to finally get around 4,35 GB !

[golfextreme]

So when is the new version of dvd2one going to be out? I saw it saying several different days in this discussion, but it's still not out? What up wit dat?

[wangofree]

Perhaps there will be a broad market for every software meeting the demands of each user...case in point -

The newbie like me who struggled through the whole encoding universe only to find myself stymied by my W98 OS...DVD2ONE was and is a God-send. Simple, Quick, Good quality results, don't give a flying fig about extras...DVD2ONE meets my needs. Do I look forward to an updated version? Sure, that's human nature. Do I want the software to become complicated, NO, I'm happy with its' simplicity. Would I like the option of menus and certain extras? Yea, but not necessarily for each DVD I want to backup. So I think there's a spectrum of consumer who will patiently wait for Ver 1.1

PIC may be for the advanced newbie, or the die hard encoder who truly wants more control, who secretly doesn't like spending days to encode a title....People are ecstatic over quality, happy with longer encoding time required and full backup capability...good for them.

...and then the real men (women?) who will continue to encode the old fashioned way, using CCE, scenarist, etc. - who don't mind the humongous amount of time it requires.

My point is that not all software or methods can be (or perhaps should be) compared to one another. I like what DVD2ONE does, and philosophically I much prefer supporting the little guy over the big conglomerate.

I better end this before we all start to hold hands and sing 'we are the world'.

;) Erwin, et al - Keep up the good work!! Look forward to update!

:D WF

[mpucoder]

I agree, this is a big world, full of diversity. But is there no place for DVDXCopy? :)

The problems I see developing with Pinnacle (as foretold elsewhere) is a growing number of small bugs and burner incompatabilities.

[DenFussell]

I think if DVD2One is updated to the point where you can:

1) Make a 1:1 Copy

2) Set the final file size of a movie only copy

- it will be around for a long, long time.

InstantCopy is slow, makes noisier video and is incredibly bloated.

I have copied Gladiator with both products and I can see a quality difference in DVD2One's favor. The InstantCopy version copied only the main movie, 1 audio and no subs. I manually set the output size at max (4.32 GB), so I am comparing apples and apples.

The other strike against it is Pinnacle's support, or lack thereof, at least in my experience. Their pat answer to me when I've had problems in the past with their products has been to clean out the registry, uninstall and download the latest update while never addressing the particular problem I'm having.

Good Luck all!

[vljenewein]

Just a point of note: I made a copy of Lilo & Stitch, my daughters movie, with DVDXcopy and it plays in her computer ok (Liteon DVD), it plays in my computer (Toshiba DVD) with some fiddling with ( I have to right click and go to title 1 chapter 1 after the movie starts, else it just does an endless loop). When I put it in the family's DVD player, an Apex connected to our TV it does not play but says "wrong region" Never have been able to get it to play there.

Same movie using DVD2ONE and plays flawlessly from all the above mentioned sources.

I really think DVDXCOPY will have a long path of problematic systems out there. It may be their undoing. It will probably work with the more advanced computer users who are able to tweak it to their desires. However, the bad name given from less experienced with meager results on their systems will unlease a dark cloud about 321 Studios. My prediction is that 321 Studios will not be with us in 2004, and certainly not in 2005... it will fall by the wayside, overwhelmed with disgruntled users and little bugs, and will have spent a lot of resources just to alleviate unhappy customers. Their price is a bit much for what they are doing, considerting their competition now.

Nero has had their uphill climb, but their development team and necessary staffing is able to keep a foothold on the market of DVD Burning Software, and now with the advent of 5.5.10.13 version (soon to be available I've heard) Their compatibility issues with DVD Compliance will have a successful ending. http://www.dvd2one.com/news.htm

[Antonio S.]

@vljenewein:

Why are you so sure that this future release of Nero would solve the "compatibility issue" with DVD players?
This not the first time that Ahead promise that this problem is going to be solved. They had made a lot of versions since their first release of Nero 5.5 and all of them has the "compatibility issue" problem...

@DenFussell quote:
I think if DVD2One is updated to the point where you can:

1) Make a 1:1 Copy

2) Set the final file size of a movie only copy

- it will be around for a long, long time.
I hope that DVD2one team hear you soon...

Antonio S.

[vljenewein]

Ah..Antonio, my friend, please have a read of the thread I started in the DVD2One & InstantCopy categories, title "BE OF GOOD CHEER_Nero fans!!" There is a quote I used from Rene' there. personally I have not had the issues that people are saying. out of 12 different DVD players I found one.. a Sony that would not play my copies in Nero UDF burn mode. I made one, same movie, no changes to the .IFO or .VOB files and burned an additional one in UDF/ISO mode and UDF 2.01 and then it played on my friends DVD. Intersting on how same files but written differently can make a difference like that.

[mpucoder]

Hmmm, not even 24 hours have passed, and this thread moved to the second page.

I just wanted to make an observation, and give a little encouragement to Rene and Erwin. Yes, Instant Copy is out, and has more features than DVD2One. But it also has more problems. The "race" is not over. The question that will be answered soon is which approach is better? To start with a rock solid transcoder engine and add features later, or start with a feature loaded program and patch up the bugs later?

Keep up the work, guys, and please feel you need to catch up with Pinnacle in the features department. A few of the most sought features now will keep the momentum going.

[int 21h]

Just don't get too caught up in this security thing... the people that want to buy it are going to buy it. Move on with adding functionality.

If you really want something more difficult to crack, look into the wrap-up products from http://www.elicense.com. Those are usually pretty decent... with not only providing demo functionality, but also automating registration and such.

Best of luck.

[svcdentro]

Hi
In the meantime dvd2one is the best easy way to copy DVDs, i tried instantcopy because of the multiple posts and parafernalia about it but it still has too many bugs so they must work on it because none wants to lost time and energy in constant crashes when there are many ways to copy a DVD safetly consuming the same wasted time, so i can assure if you apply your knowledge and time in making dvd2one a 1:1 copier (menus,etc) you'll win!

[jdobbs]

I think DVD2one better release pretty soon or they are going to "secure" themselves right out of business... The market is ripe and they're holding the product back while InstantCopy steals all their customers.

Isn't it always the case? The best techies make the worst marketeers.

[2COOL]

Yessirree, I agree!;)

Just like when thousands of people shifted from Napster to Kazaa. I personally don't think Napster will ever make a comeback. Maybe this is not a similar example to what DVD2One is going through the moment but that's how I envision how the market works when some better comes along.

The people are hungry and we're starting to stare at that new restuarant that had just opened across the street.

Just my 2 cents.;)

[Antonio S.]

@jdobbs:

I agree with you...

DVD2one is well design from the beginning. However at least simple options may be done. The development of your tool (Makeiteasy) was a necesity, because of the lack of an needed option to adjust the file size. This option was a MOST from the begining. Maybe the owners think that holding future versions may be a good market decision, but it is not. In the other side we have companies like Pinnacle, that even when their products may have also bugs, they also have the power to market it all around the world. So my point is, that if your are an small company, in order to succeed you have to hit first. At this moment it is very difficult to compete with a program like InstantCopy. Why? Pinnacle has the market, the connections, and their partners. Probably in the near future when you buy a DVD burner a copy of InstantCopy would be included as part of the software, so even if you like it or not you will have it. Imagine a product that even with bugs, is available worldwide, with more options, cheaper, and even with rebates!!!

My friend, that is market power...

Antonio S.

P.D. A new version of DVD2one is out(V1.0.1), including the option to adjust file size. They also have available, another program to burn DVD's (is not included in DVD2one, you have to buy it for $19.90 US dollars).

[jdobbs]

@Antonio S

Yep... I'm one of those people who is always rooting for Mom-and-Pop store to survive when WalMart comes to town... but you know, they never do.

There is something special about DVD2one's code, though. It is certainly much, much faster than anyone else's.

My prediction: at some point in the near future the folks at DVD2one will be offered some "rounding-figures" cash for their code (from one of the software houses) and they'll cry all the way to the bank. The big company will use their market presence and power and make a fortune from it.

I've seen it happen oh so many times.


BTW: How long does it take to get the new registration code? I'm waiting...

[int 21h]

Originally posted by jdobbs
There is something special about DVD2one's code, though. It is certainly much, much faster than anyone else's.


I believe its due to the accuracy it uses, the code that InstantCopy is using is doing preprocessing to ensure a bitrate distribution similar to the original, DVD2One is not.

[Jayce]

Believe me that already happend, and we did NOT do it :)
(i won't go in details but trust me on this one)

We are not some student operation, like many other small projects.
Erwin owns his own bussines making software etc, and i work fulltime at a other software developer and have some sort of parttime own bussines thingy.

[jdobbs]

Got my reg. code:

I gotta tell you:

That is by far the largest registration number I have ever seen!:)

[e5p1der]

DVD2One will continue to have its fans and niche users. However, I agree w/ previous posters that it's a competitive market, & IC has taken a few customers away. DVD2One will need to match the various offerings of IC so that it can become more mainstream. Security is an important issue, but when u deal w/ the warez crowd u will never win. Since I'm also a developer, I fully support the hard work of DVD2One programmers. But Please, think about more features to compete w/ IC b/c I for one would like u all to be around for a while!

[Antonio S.]

@5p1der:DVD2One will continue to have its fans and niche users. However, I agree w/ previous posters that it's a competitive market, & IC has taken a few customers away. DVD2One will need to match the various offerings of IC so that it can become more mainstream. Security is an important issue, but when u deal w/ the warez crowd u will never win. Since I'm also a developer, I fully support the hard work of DVD2One programmers. But Please, think about more features to compete w/ IC b/c I for one would like u all to be around for a while!

I totally agree...

Antonio S.

[jdobbs]

Here, here.

[vljenewein]

Originally posted by Antonio S.
@vljenewein:

Why are you so sure that this future release of Nero would solve the "compatibility issue" with DVD players?
This not the first time that Ahead promise that this problem is going to be solved. They had made a lot of versions since their first release of Nero 5.5 and all of them has the "compatibility issue" problem...

Antonio S.

Just a quick note on the above. At the DVD2ONE web site (http://www.dvd2one.com) I was reading about burning the movie directly with CopyToDVD program. I'm curious. I download the program and give it a try. Cost is only 19.00 if I decided to keep it, which is not bad, compared to what I paid for full retail box of Nero 5.5 . I burned the same movie I did with DVD2ONE and Nero 5.5.10.7b (Ratrace). Played but skipped to some middle part of the movie when it started on DVD player. When run in PowerDVD XP on my computer it came up as unsupported format.. so basically a coaster. Tried it again with different settings. got another coaster. So.. I uninstalled it and continue to plod along with Nero

With the newer update that I have.. Nero 5.5.10.7b version I have burned in 3 different modes and all work in set top players.. (A) DVD-Video, (B) UDF, (C) UDF/ISO.

Now, don't get the gist of this post wrong. I'm sure that CopyToDVD works. However, if I didn't get a compliant DVD after using it, then perhaps I need to set some things differently? Or using wrong burner settings?? Not sure.. but the main point is Nero really appears to have fixed the DVD compliance hang up, and even though 19.00 is not a lot to spend on a CD/DVD burning program, it's $19.00 too much if you don't need it and or use it, but it's extra space used in your computer if it sits there idle.. know what I mean? Make any sense?

I have also seen posts of succeses on Instant Copy and some bugs that have evidently cropped up. Personally I never encountered any bugs in DVD2ONE. There 'were' I believe, in the beginning, some minor bug things with Sony recorders, from the info page at http://www.dvd2one.com web site in "NEWS" section. Those have been addressed at the moment and life moves on.

Blessings and Salutations to mpucoder.. and jdobbs who have an enormous task of moderators of such a web site. I have spit my share of wine, mpucoder, and never make it a habit to drink and post at the same time. currently on tylenol/codine for jaw surgery, so may seem a bit odd in posts at time.:)

[HeeD]

How can it be said that IC took some of DVD2One customers away when one cannot even buy the damm thing anywhere? You cannot buy online, and where are the stores that have it in stock? It probably took more users, not customers, away - those which were running pir8 copies of DVD2One are now running pir8 copies of IC!

I bought my DVD2One online in a matter of minutes, but my order of IC is backorded with J&R. This is frustrating.

By the time IC hits the store-shelves and is available in mass, DVD2One may indeed have most of the features of IC. Already there are tutorials how to use DVD2One to backup DVDs with menus etc... it is just a matter of the programmers building this functionality into DVD2One directly. I would rather have them work on the quality issues first though.

[DenFussell]

vljenewein-

I have burned a couple with CopyDVD with absolute success. I think the secret is to check the box on DVD2One to have it burn with CopyDVD and let it happen automatically.

I found that to be very handy and unlike IC, you still wind up with a VIDEO_TS directory that can be viewed, checked, etc. instead of a proprietary fileset you must convert to view.

I have never had a problem burning anything with Nero unless there were stupid mistakes I made somewhere in IFOEdit. I have had absolutely no problem with anything generated by DVD2One except in one instance where there was faulty media involved.

Try the checkbox on DVD2One's main screen.

Good Luck!

[vljenewein]

Thanks DenFussell !! One thing I noticed was the option of using a different writing method over aspi. I've not heard of this one before. Was not sure if that was my undoing. Plus, I clicked and adjusted, tweaked what I thought was good and literally tweaked my self right out of a disc.. LOL

ICQ 3826345.. I think I'll add that to my signature.. Would sure be nice sometimes to be able to chat in "real" mode about such things.

Vern

[NeVeRLiFt]

DVD2ONE.v1.02.Cracked.WinAll-SSG

The group that usually cracks CCE cracked it....














Cant stop the scene.

[Scarpad]

Yeah that's why they are better off spending the time Improving the program the sales will be there

[mmgrover]

Let's Keep up the development and tell everyone to purchase!

[mordant]

Posting that you are working on a better anti-piracy reg code is just asking for trouble and waving a red cape in the eyes of hackers.

Someone said we don't leave our houses unlocked even though we know a lock won't stop a burgler, but a burgler is looking for an easy mark...a hacker is looking for a challenge.

[Antonio S.]

Well, another week has gone!!! What we have in the DVD2one "arena" ?

Last week was out a new version, V1.0.2.

New Features:

-New security system (already cracked!).
-The ability to decide the final size of the transcoded movie ( very helpfull if you decide to allowed more space for extras and menus, however must be modify because doesn't work to reduce small files in order to decrease the size of the small extras instead of the movie)
-The ability to include a burning engine in the process (requires to buy "Copy to DVD" for the amount of $19.00 USD)

Modifications that at this moment has not be done:

-The ability to make 1:1 copies.
-Improvements in the transcoding engine, especially for big reductions ( at this moment, even with its high speed, the transcoded movie is: shaky, produces macroblocks, and some contrast and sharpness is lost in the process).

When this improvements are done, would be a market for DVD2one if we compare it with InstantCopy, or others programs that may arrive at that moment? It's a matter of "speed" vs. "price and options".

Let see what the future brings...

Antonio S.

[e5p1der]

Originally posted by HeeD
How can it be said that IC took some of DVD2One customers away when one cannot even buy the damm thing anywhere? You cannot buy online, and where are the stores that have it in stock? It probably took more users, not customers, away - those which were running pir8 copies of DVD2One are now running pir8 copies of IC!

I bought my DVD2One online in a matter of minutes, but my order of IC is backorded with J&R. This is frustrating.

By the time IC hits the store-shelves and is available in mass, DVD2One may indeed have most of the features of IC. Already there are tutorials how to use DVD2One to backup DVDs with menus etc... it is just a matter of the programmers building this functionality into DVD2One directly. I would rather have them work on the quality issues first though.

Agreed, Agreed to your first point of not being able to buy it therefore no customers stolen. But if the authors of d21 keep spending their free time & resources to fight the crackerz warez crowd, these features will not come before IC is mass released. AND with IC's potential price point when it gets released with its features will "surely" take potential legit d21 customers away if d21 does not match w/ features. That was my point. I tried IC's demo, and I can see how some people would rather use IC instead of d21 in terms of quality and ease of use. I know at the prices that were offered <20 AR, many potential customers of d21 and upgraders will jump ship to IC, therefore diluting d21's user base.

From quality issues to 1:1, these are all features that we would like to have in d21. We all have our opinions on what is first and second priorities, but nevertheless, having FEATURES is KEY in competing w/ IC and other potential Rivals! My $0.02.

[mrdutchie]

DVD2One will loose, cause they can't keep up with the quality.
Yeah the program is cool for it's speed, and it looks
like EVERYONE Likes it only because of the speed.
Well, I rather wait 90 minutes more, for a better quality and
have a FULL dvd. + it's a lot cheaper.
Typical Dutch to rip of other people!
Nah IC7 = $19.95 and have more support then DVD2one

[int 21h]

Are there no patent laws where DVD2One is produced? Does DVD2One pay the MPEG-LA royalties?

[abatis]

perhaps this helps ... "but there is no royalty for the first 50,000 decoders and first 50,000 encoders in a calendar year sold or distributed by a legal entity (applies to no more than one legal entity in an affiliated group);" etc

[Antonio S.]

@Heed:How can it be said that IC took some of DVD2One customers away when one cannot even buy the damm thing anywhere? You cannot buy online, and where are the stores that have it in stock? It probably took more users, not customers, away - those which were running pir8 copies of DVD2One are now running pir8 copies of IC! I bought it from J&R, cost me $39.00 USD + 4.99 shipping. I installed it with no problems at all (just, unistalled DEMO version first). Included was a factory rebate for $20.00, just send it this morning...

http://www.jandr.com/JRProductPage.process?RestartFlow=t&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=1&Product_Id=3679490

Antonio S.

[mrdutchie]

Yep indeed. Great place to order.
End up $19.95 Way better then $46.00 for DVD2one + $19,- to burn the damn thing...
$19.95 vs $65,- My choice is made, I will wait 90 minutes for $45,-
Just watching a movie and get paid too :D

[int 21h]

Originally posted by abatis
perhaps this helps ... "but there is no royalty for the first 50,000 decoders and first 50,000 encoders in a calendar year sold or distributed by a legal entity (applies to no more than one legal entity in an affiliated group);" etc

Where did you obtain this information? From what I've read on Mpegla.com, everyone is required to have a license for decoding and encoding, no matter how many decoders/encoders they supply...

[DenFussell]

Antonio S.

Have you tried making movie only backups with IC?

If so, have you encountered any problems?

Thanks!

[abatis]

Your campaign against DVD2one is very clever.


int 21h


Where did you obtain this information? From what I've read on Mpegla.com, everyone is required to have a license for decoding and encoding, no matter how many decoders/encoders they supply...

http://www.mpegla.com/news/n_02-07-15_m4v.html

[mrdutchie]

something tells me that Dvd2one is screwed with this...

[mpucoder]

I thought I read that somewhere, and that it was for MPEG-4. DVDs are MPEG-1 or MPEG-2.

But, DVD2One is neither a decoder or encoder, but a transcoder. Where do they stand?

[abatis]

Some MPEG2 royalty info. They reference encoding/decoding not transcoding. I geuss theoretically the media provider has paid the royalty under the media license - but I am not a laywer - nor want to be a scum bucket of any kind - honestly.

http://www.mpegla.com/mpeg2/m2_qa.html

[Antonio S.]

@DenFussell:Have you tried making movie only backups with IC? No...

Antonio S.

[int 21h]

Originally posted by mpucoder
I thought I read that somewhere, and that it was for MPEG-4. DVDs are MPEG-1 or MPEG-2.

But, DVD2One is neither a decoder or encoder, but a transcoder. Where do they stand?

They have to implement at least partial decoding for what they are doing, therefore they do infringe on a number of the reference patents.

My campaign appears to be somewhat murky, so I suppose I will clarify. I am all for a company that wants to make money with software, if that company properly licenses that software. Why should I properly license a piece of software if the writers themselves don't properly license the technology they use? And if they can't afford for some reason to license this technology, they shouldn't be in a 'business' environment (Read: XviD, etc.)

[Antonio S.]

@int 21h:They have to implement at least partial decoding for what they are doing, therefore they do infringe on a number of the reference patents. I am not so sure about that!!!

I think that its transcoder just analyze the "total title size" vs. the new size (4.36GB), and reduce it in equal proportions, in all the stream. This is why DVD2one is so fast and size accurate. It don't even loose time like IC, that verifies first where to make the reduction (this makes IC slower but with better quality)...

More information here:http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Susie_Wee/PAPERS/hpidc97/hpidc97.html

Antonio S.

[int 21h]

IC is slower because it goes all the way down past the MV level when it decodes.

Check out on that page where it says:

A more efficient transcoding solution, shown in the bottom of Figure 1, is to only partially decompress the video stream and perform the processing directly on the compressed-domain data. For some operations, further gains can be achieved by only processing the portions of the video stream that are affected by the transcoding operation. In this work, the affected portion of the video stream is partially decompressed into its motion vector (MV) and discrete cosine transform (DCT) representation. Computational requirements are reduced by eliminating the process of further decompressing the MV and DCT representation into the spatial domain, processing the spatial domain data, and recompressing the result into its new MV/DCT representation. For many compressed-domain transcoding operations, additional gains are achieved by exploiting the sparsity that is typical of quantized DCT coefficients.


Any manipulation of the stream requires at least partial decompression unless you're talking about removing frames altogether.

[abatis]

When I buy a car I don't check if Ford, Porsche or whoever manufacturer has satisfied every outside patent and copyright requirement for the product. That is the responisbility of the manufacturer to protect themselves. It is not my responsibility. Therefore I think it is way out of bounds for us to be playing judge on what these gentelman are doing. They are selling us a product and if they get sued - sorry but not the end consumers issue. Nor is it a good argument to rationalize the use of warez.

Therefore I propose that the "future of DVD2One" topic focus more on what features we as end users want and less on the legalities of multiplexors and decoders. Just my two cents.

For instance, after reading Jdobbs outline on copying the entire DVD - it seems like that would be an eventual improvement to have built into the program. I think also that a pricing more in the $20 to $29(US) range would also improve acceptance. I think many people are on a budget. To me it should be more like buying a quality book than half an M$ operating system. Say someone wants to build a 500 copy DVD library. If the authors said that for every DVD burned we should capture about $.05 that would average to about $25 a program.

[int 21h]

When I buy a car, I think of the manufacturer and research its previous performance, in terms of its 'staying' power on the market. Who wants to buy something from a company that is very likely going to be sued out of existence?

And this all has to do with the future of DVD2One...

[Jayce]

Where does all this negativism comes from in our world? All this is based on rumours and nothing but rumours.

We are a serious bussiness who are running a company for over 4 years now so who says we don't pay what we need to pay??

You tell me.... :)

[hakko504]

You're right jayce, let's start thinking positive here :)

And let me congratulate you on a wonderful little program. Sure there are things to be done, but what you have is useful enough for me, especially with jdoobs guide on how to keep menus etc.

[Antonio S.]

Well, this is not really negativism!!!

When I bought Nero, InstantCopy, PrimoDVD, Adobe Photoshop, TMPEGEnc (just to name some), all of them came with a written warranty, explaining about pending patents, license, and your rights that you have as a consumer.
Every product should have it.
This rumors came from the lack of information...

Antonio S.

P.D. Maybe Doom9 can give us more information about rules or law that applied to software (freeware, demoware, shareware, etc.)

[ardo]

Sorry, but i tried IC and i'm not happy with the programm!
It's slooooooooooooooooooooooooow and the quality of the dvd i copied
( Disney's Peter Pan ) is not so good as the one i copied with dvd2one!! I stick with dvd2one because IC has so many bugs, is so slooooooooooooooooooooooooow and the quality is not so good!!
No i just can say one thing Instantcopy sucks!!

[Antonio S.]

DVD2one's future is uncertain...

First was Instant Copy...

Now we have another option: DVD95Copy:
http://www.dvd95copy.net/

Is as fast as DVD2one and can make 1:1 copies. Quality is similar, but for better results you still need InstantCopy...

Antonio S.

[Jayce]

if the sky is falling will all the tree's become blue?

Once again why would the future of DVD2one become uncertain? Because we where the first and now more packages come running in using similare technlogy?
But that doesn't stop us developing the software any further, nope we will continue to develope new features for our registered users.

over 99% of our customers are very satisfied with what the product does, it's just a hand full of people bitching and complaining that tomorows software is a beter product and it can do this or that!

GREAT we endorse compition instead from hidding under a rock crying that the new product can do this or that.

HELLO wake and smell the freaking coffee, this market is so big there's room enough for more then one player.
So for once and for all PLEASE STOP THIS NEGATIVE BULLSHIT about our days being over.

We are manly enough ourselves to decide when our future becomes uncertain and it's not now not tomorow not next month!

I know you like our product, you told me.
But why oh why everytime there's a new kid on the block this negativity about our uncertain future? why???

Erwin has a good track record of not letting down people of newer version of his software (see remote-selector) and he is not about to change that!

So please let Erwin decide for himselve when he will stop the newer versions instead of you.. :)

Thank you...

EDIT : spellmistake removed

[Antonio S.]

@Jayce:Once again why would the future of DVD2one become uncertain? Because we where the first and now more packages come running in using similare technlogy? NO, not really!!!

When I bought your program, I really was satisfy!!! (Very fast, small package, new encoding engine, etc.). However the development has been extremely slow, making us the customers, to look for other alternatives. Really it's your business (not mine), but here I post what I hear from others customer (even if your like it or not). Don't take it as a negative point, take it as a challenge and make improvements to your program, so it can be the best (better than DVDxCOPY, PIC, and DVD95copy). I know that it has the potential but at this moment, options like 1:1 or copy witout encoding should be a reality, but sadly they are NOT!!!

Antonio S.

[DenFussell]

Jayce-

Keep up the good work. 95% of the posts on this forum are related to problems with PIC. I see very few about problems with DVD2One.

I think that speaks volumes. This insatiable thirst for the next version is hard to fight, but don't let it drive you to distraction.

How many fixes have been published by Pinnacle? How many Pinnacle reps are browsing and conversing on this or the other forums?

Stay the course & Good Luck

[wangofree]

Originally posted by Antonio S.
@Jayce: NO, not really!!!

When I bought your program, I really was satisfy!!! (Very fast, small package, new encoding engine, etc.). However the development has been extremely slow, making us the customers, to look for other alternatives.
Antonio S.

Wow, you put out a great product and people expect you to upgrade it 5 minutes later - or else :mad:

Interesting thing about Antonio S link to new software DVD95copy is the price -> $45 US. Not $25, not $19 like some people whine about that DVD2ONE should cost. This is comparably priced to DVD2ONE. And eventually, if you can hold onto your temper for more than 5 minutes, it too might someday allow us full 1:1.

I will continue to support DVD2ONE, but will also continue to download demo's of new stuff and keep my mind open. But I'm not going to have a coronary if I don't get DVD2ONE to dance the way I see fit......



:D WF

[Scarpad]

Jayce I would'nt let it bother you I agree alot of people have nothing better to do than whine and complain. I agree with what the other gentlemen said about Pinnicle and IC, there's been alot of know problems with their release, the size issue being the most prominent, and I don't see people jumping down their throatseven thou you have'nt heard a peep from them.

The Makers of DVD2One are always publically available to answer questions, are continuing to make improvements, and have released a solid product. Can it do everything for everybody no, but it does what it initially advertised it did, extremely well.

[mrdutchie]

Maybe because PIC has more options!


Originally posted by DenFussell
Jayce-

Keep up the good work. 95% of the posts on this forum are related to problems with PIC. I see very few about problems with DVD2One.

I think that speaks volumes. This insatiable thirst for the next version is hard to fight, but don't let it drive you to distraction.

How many fixes have been published by Pinnacle? How many Pinnacle reps are browsing and conversing on this or the other forums?

Stay the course & Good Luck

[DenFussell]

mrdutchie-

I don't think the options count unless they work. Do they?

[Antonio S.]

@DenFussell:mrdutchie- I don't think the options count unless they work. Do they?Frankly, I don't know of what OPTIONS you are talking about. My full version of IC works correctly every time that I use it. No problems so far!!! The encoding is better than DVD2one. The menus also works well. So, unless you are using the "reg hacks" , the F5 trick, the PDIso program, or other crazy ideas, I don't see what are the options that the program doesn't do. More simple it cannot be. The only thing that I missed from DVD2one is it speed (specially in my old 800 mhz Athlon PC).

Maybe I get an exceptional copy of IC!!!:D

Antonio S.

[mpucoder]

Maybe time to close this thread?

It has drifted, as have other threads, away from our mission here, which is to inform others and discuss the software. Comparisons are inevitable, and productive. However, what we in my country call "pissing contests" are not constructive, either to a reader trying to decide what software to try, or to the developers.

We were lax in the begining of this forum concerning the nature of posts, mostly due to the volume overwhelming the moderators. That is changing now, as the initial excitement wears down, and we have added another moderator to help out.

[Antonio S.]

Sorry, that you have to close it...

Antonio S.

[abatis]

I buy something for what IT IS, not what it Might Be.

[atreides93]

Jayce just ignore complainers. I think a lot of people don't have a clue how software is written. They expect instant results. Yet look at microsoft. They're a HUGE company with thousands of employees, yet they take forever to fix certain bugs and sometimes they don't even fix bugs they know about!
InstantCopy has some serious bugs...I can't get it to work on two different DVD's so far. There is no one I can really talk to, their suport isn't very accessible. I doubt I'll see a fix for it any time soon....its not any better than DVD2One. So I don't really get where these complainers are coming from.

Just now I had to use DVd2One to backup Stargate SG1 because instant copy doesn't work on it. it crashes. Thank god for DVD2One eh?

[MackemX]

DVD2One is an amazing product and nothing can touch it on the speed stakes and it is by far the simplest program out there and will no doubt improve with future versions

I have given up on the quality argument as that's a matter of opinion, but I must come to PIC defence when people complain about it not working etc, work's just fine for me!

A lot of PIC's problems are what I call'USER BUGS' where the user's system is somehow unable to use the software. How come it work's just fine on my system and my friend also downloaded the trial and his works just fine too and I'm sure if anyone came round and stuck their DVD in my computer and I ripped it, stripped it, ran it thru IC, and burnt it they would go away happy with a fully working backup (I know there are a few problematic DVD's but we can't have it all)

If people are using the Reg hack to strip Titles then that is not what the program is advertised to do, it's sold as a 1:1 backup tool!
"Make a true 1:1 copy of any non-copy protected DVD on a recordable DVD" (use ifoedit to strip)

DVD2One is sold as a movie-only tool
"With this tool you can make movie-only copies for personal use on a single DVD-Recordable",

so how can people continue to put one against the other when they are both advertised to do different jobs?. IC can't do movie only and DVD2One can't do 1:1

when DVD2One is updated to include the 1:1 feature then the battle will be on, so save it till then:D and use what's best suited for your needs now

[mrdutchie]

PIC does copy 1:1 with better quality(2 pass) for a low price.
Dvd2One, only can handle a movie like we all know by know. and it's only 1 pass. THAT's the difference.

[mnibond]

this is the two must have option
1/Options to decide final size of compression,

2/Option to include menus and extras

[DenFussell]

I think the biggest complaint some have about the whining that's gone on here is that some are beating DVD21 developers over the head because they aren't staying up nights to hurredly work on this favorite feature or that one that so & so thinks is so important.

Just a few weeks ago DVD21 developers introduced what I consider to be one of the most important improvements in this 'field'. They delivered a product that did exactly what it promised.

They also offered a list of possible future developements but made no commitment to any time table.

I said before and I'll say again their achievements are worthy of some kind of awesome award. In today's world, something that does what it says and is rock solid is unheard of, especially in the software world.

The paying customer is important, but the businessman has to ultimately be the one to control his destiny. To browbeat and try to intimidate someone that has made an important contribution to a field just to satisfy one's impatience is short-sighted.

If DVD21 developers had succumbed to the whining and hurredly offered these craved options without properly testing and de-bugging them, the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be of biblical proportions and they would be trashed.

Frankly, some could make a big to-do about Pinnacle's failure to provide an option to make a movie only backup of a DVD or their use of proprietary files that you can't view without this or that hastily written utility that may or may not show errors unrelated to the original project. Pinnacle is painfully absent from these public forums and offers what I have experienced to be very poor, standard automated, we'll get back to you after you fill out our questionaire, attitude. Their customer service stinks!

I suggested before and I suggest again, respectfully, the moderators should consider splitting the forum so that the stated goals may be met amiably.

Best to All!

[vljenewein]

Yep.. from a wine taster that sometimes doesn't spit.. a simple comment. User 'bugs' are probably more prevalent in softare than actual program bugs. Now, I'm not saying that these things don't exist, it is just that sometimes we as computer users have tinkered with this and that and have literally "ASKED" our computers to do some impossible feats, and wonder why there is an error message that comes up. Kind of like taking your car and flooring it and rolling down the windows and waiting for the sound barrier to be broken so you can hear it?? ROFLOL and drinking one more little sip of wine.

I bought DVD95COPY. Do I need it? probably not. but you should see what I have collected and also burned onto CD as archive. LOTS of different ripping/burning/codes, etc. programs. My opinion is that there will come a time when mr deep pockets aka Motion Picture Association of America with their well fed lawyers, will manage to put injunctions on different programs. Well, I've got some proggys backed up. Unfortunately, the technology will probably surpass the age of some of these programs, but they may still have some usefullness.

I am anxious to try the DVD95COPY program and do a fair comparison to it. But,as I had told MisterX in an ealier (well, let's call it "different") thread, that my old 27" tv is not that good for clarity and my 17" monitor running at 800 X 600 is not that good either, but neither are my eyes. *S* So the quality will have to fall where it may.

The worst one I've done so far is Pearl Harbor. That is a goofy way to do a movie.. put 90 percent on 1 disc and put the end 10 percent on the 2nd disc. Soo much movie.. so little disc to use and the quality is noticibly poor in the disc 1 burn. actually...pitiful! Now, if I can copy over some of the *.VOB files to the disc2 rip and then burn a more even 50/50 2 disc movie, it may come out a whole lot better! :D

[int 21h]

Originally posted by Jayce
Once again why would the future of DVD2one become uncertain? Because we where the first and now more packages come running in using similare technlogy?

DVD2One is still the only one using compressed domain transcoding, IC is using a full decode/encode engine (with appropriate scaling).

Even IC isn't the first totally wizard-based transcoding application... (I would say FU was the first groundbreaking, wizard like, press a button, and off it goes application)

[Prosper]

Kinda OT, but:

Originally posted by int 21h
IC is using a full decode/encode engine (with appropriate scaling).


I dunno, I think they're doing something else. Need proof? A full DVD transcode takes what? 3 hours? Try setting it to SVCD mode: its MPEG2 engine only hits 6-7fps then, and that's half the resolution of a DVD stream.

[Kenwood]

Hello Atreides,

Can you let me know how Stargate went for you ?
Had overhere the Euro PAL version (Region 2) and I did had some problems with it.
Followed the exact manual for decryption and DVD2One.
All other movies went fine so far, but with Stargate (after I've run it true DVD2One) had every (let say) 10-20 sec a twitch.
Solved it, but had to use Ifoedit for that.
So, I like to know how yours went !
Best regards,

Kenwood

[e5p1der]

Once d21 has 1:1, I think games over for the other players unless they can match d21's speed & combine PIC's quality. Can't wait for next update of d21!

[int 21h]

Originally posted by Prosper
Kinda OT, but:
I dunno, I think they're doing something else. Need proof? A full DVD transcode takes what? 3 hours? Try setting it to SVCD mode: its MPEG2 engine only hits 6-7fps then, and that's half the resolution of a DVD stream.

I believe that is the added overhead of resizing, etc.

A full DVD Transcode takes me about 1.5-2 hours, and I transcode in CCE at about 1.3 (for 24fps), which comes out to pretty equivalent speeds.

If you look at the bitrate graphs mb1 posted back when IC first came out, you can also tell by the distribution of DVD2One vs. IC, that IC is definitely more controlled in its compression, where DVD2One is a little more sporadic.

Anyway, they might be doing some different voodoo we've never even heard of, this is all just my speculation, take it for what its worth. (little)

[DenFussell]

vljenewein-

Your comments about Pearl Harbor prompted me to buy the disc just to see if it would come out as poorly as I've heard.

I have been professionally acive in teleproduction as a video engineer, editor, live sports coverage, etc. since 1971 and I swear, I don't see some of the stuff I see complaints about on these forums. I tend to look far beyond content and am happiest when I consider a medium to be transparent. There are folks that want to 'improve' images and they can do that with various processors & filters. I want a storage medium to as much as possible create a duplicate of what goes in.

I used IFOEdit to strip both discs of Pearl Harbor of unwanted streams and then used VOBEdit to join the two and wound up with 9 VOB's in a movie only mode. I then used DVD21 to process it and I swear I can't see any problems with it. Resolution is a little less and there's perhaps a little more noise than before but that's under very close scrutiny. From viewing distance on my 30+ in. TV with Component input it looks absolutely wonderful.

I know I'm not blind, if I were I wouldn't be making a living at what I do.

I also know that NTSC is a poorer medium than PAL so maybe our friends in Europe can see things I can't see but I'm tickled to death with the Pearl Harbor back up.

Maybe ignorance is bliss.

Best to all!

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DenFussell

I used IFOEdit to strip both discs of Pearl Harbor of unwanted streams and then used VOBEdit to join the two and wound up with 9 VOB's in a movie only mode.
Out of interests sake which soundtracks did you keep?, as if it is only one then DVD2One is normally fine, I have seen Saving Private Ryan when ran through DVD2One and it too was ok but only with 5.1 Soundtrack and english subs

[vljenewein]

DenFussell: My hats off to you..REALLY! I graduated from high school in 1971 and you've been in the video business since I graduated in high school. Now I come along.. a newbie.. rookie who bought a DVD burner just around New Years Day this year and I will never ever presume to be an expert or such at it. It would be real intersting just to talk to you sometime. Your stories of the video industry would be really intersting.. at least to me.. perhaps if I venture down from Fennville, Michigan to Macon Georgia someday, we'll get together for coffee.. or a glass of wine.*S*

Back to the subject.... What I had commented on was that the first part was so big that either DVD2ONE had too much to hanle, had a poor day, or something else. I normally accept some slight imperfections as I have used DIVx and have played movies in MPEG-4 compressed format and find them REALLY barely acceptable. What DVD2ONE or DVD95COPY, Instant Copy, et al have done is truly remarkable. There are other ways.. free programs out there. I made movie back ups before these came along, but it was way more time consuming and sometimes uncertain of the outcome. Their metods are not the best, simply "simple" forget speed! everyone worries about speed. Ever hear of MPEG-4 compressions everyone? We're talking an all nighter project for your computer to do uninterrupted and that's if you have a fast pentium 4 or AMD Athlon class processor. For the most part, I don't use the comptuter when things are being re-arranged, and tend to do encoding, transcoding, etc away from the computer or at night while I sleep. Let it takes it's sweet time.

What I was wondering about, and I think you may have given the answer,but could the now 9 vob files be split to 5 in first 4 in second DVD? Sort of spread out the work of DVD2ONE for transcoding? :D

If just the one causes that much degradation.. sorry.. but I'm at a loss for correct words here at the moment... then combining the 2 together as one and running DVD2ONE would surely be even worse.

I just thought it funny they did it that way.

BTW.. watching a movie of an old DVD I have and now made a working copy of called "Frequency" not that old, but older. I used DVD95COPY program for that and cannot tell any degradation of the movie and it has all the menus,and such and those extras were re-compressed with DVD95COPY and preserved more space for the actual movie. Looks very very promising. I have the full retail version of that, and not the download trial.

[DenFussell]

MisterX-
******************
Out of interests sake which soundtracks did you keep?, as if it is only one then DVD2One is normally fine, I have seen Saving Private Ryan when ran through DVD2One and it too was ok but only with 5.1 Soundtrack and english subs
******************

I kept the first audio track, ac3 6 ch Dolby

vljenewein-

******************
What I was wondering about, and I think you may have given the answer,but could the now 9 vob files be split to 5 in first 4 in second DVD? Sort of spread out the work of DVD2ONE for transcoding
******************

Yes, you can do it with IFOEdit.95. There's a guide here:

http://mpucoder.kewlhair.com/derrow/guides.html

I don't know if there's a guide for that specific operation here on Doom9 or not but you could check. I took a quick look and didn't see it.

Good Luck!

[MackemX]

Originally posted by DenFussell
MisterX-
******************
Out of interests sake which soundtracks did you keep?, as if it is only one then DVD2One is normally fine, I have seen Saving Private Ryan when ran through DVD2One and it too was ok but only with 5.1 Soundtrack and english subs
******************

I kept the first audio track, ac3 6 ch Dolby

Yes I agree, normally fine, but not the best you can achieve if time taken is no object

I fall into the group who are fussy about picture detail and will use whatever means to maintain the original DVD structure to the highest quality regardless of time and at the moment IC is that program as it is ahead of CCE for the input needed

DVD95Copy is the latest, but I'm still yet to try or see a true comparision, normally I would have done one but due to people's opinions & systems I thought I'd give it a miss this time :D (see sig)

[howardholton]

I just wanted to say thanks for the best piece of software I have EVER found for under $100. Take your time with development, as i am happy with the current and planned future state of the software.

I am one happy customer who will remain so as long as I have a system that will run the software and I will wait patiently for new versions to be released thankful that my $39 has bought such value. Not only does the software do what no other software does half as well (or as fast) but you are giving free upgrades to all of us who actually purchased the software.
Thanks
Thanks
Thanks

[Antonio S.]

@int 21h:The MPEG-LA says you don't pay who you need to pay. Here is an excerpt from a recent email exchange I had with them: Well, if this is true, this is not the end of the world!!!
Apex had a similar situation with MPEG-LA and they made a peacefull arrangement. As you know they are still on business and are number one in sales in the US (Sony is in position 2)...


Antonio S.

[muralin]

mrdutchie:

i have ripped 20+ movies. dvd2one quality is fantastic. have a 51" HDTV and the movies look gr8.

thx. i will stay with dvd2one. no time to watch extras.

for me, speed + high quality always wins over slow + slightly perceived better quality.

[jdobbs]

I gotta agree. I keep the extras, but I just really like the speed. I also have to say that while others are finding differences in quality -- it just isn't obvious to me. IMO you'd have to go to CCE to find a notable quality improvement, and that involves a very large investment in money and time.

[MackemX]

Originally posted by muralin
mrdutchie:

i have ripped 20+ movies. dvd2one quality is fantastic. have a 51" HDTV and the movies look gr8.

thx. i will stay with dvd2one. no time to watch extras.

for me, speed + high quality always wins over slow + slightly perceived better quality.

slightly perceived better quality, take a look at my sig, cos if I had a 51" HDTV in front of me now I'm pretty sure I would be able to see a bigger difference between the Original/DVD2One/IC DVD than I can even see on my crappy little 20" CRT LG upstairs :)

I guess something is bottlenecking your system or you don't have an eye for such fine detail in an image to make a statement like that if you have a large 51" HDTV

DVD2One loses the fine picture detail at first and if that doesn't save enough space you start to see even more blocking and pulsing effects in the backgrounds (which are so distracting), so I'm agast you think the quality is fantastic on your 51" HDTV, unless of course all the DVD's you have backed up were under 5GB to begin with so quality loss is very minimal but would still be noticeable in certain parts. What is the quality like when you back up a long movie with a DTS soundtrack or even 2 soundtracks?

Quality loss will always depend on the ratio of the orginal movie size and the compressed size when disregarding the audio, but speed/quality ratio it's fantastic :D

give IC and DVD2one the same amount of space for the video and I think I know which one would come out on top regarding quality. The difference between the 2 for each person would all depend on the components used to produce the image and then the viewers own quality standards and this is basically why this discussion still goes on because everyone sees a different picture :)

If we all stood in a room the same distance away from the TV and looked at the DVD's and judged the quality there would still have a difference of opinion! (obviously we all wouldnt fit in a room but you can see what I'm getting at :))

no offence to anyone with my post is intended tho