Turning Subtitles (On/Off) by Default Guide

[2COOL]

@Jipman

Thanks for the compliment and welcome to the forums! :D

[Matthew]

The discussion of hex has gone right over my head, but I did a test:
-Compiled a project in Scenarist with a pre command setting subtitles stream to 0 and On.
-Compiled a project on Scenarist using same assets but with no such pre-command. I instead set the precommand using IFOEdit 0.96's drop-down box settings.

The results were 100 percent identical when compared using a file compare app.

This begs the question, why the need for hex...

[windtrader]

OK. I have a headache and give up.

I've used this technique many to turn on and off audio streams as well as subtitles. I have just encountered closed captions that are on by default and I would like to hide them by default.

There is a regular English subtitle AND the closed caption. The English sub does not show by default but the closed caption is visible.

IFOEDIT of the VTS_01_0.IFO shows

SubPicture 1: English (2-bit rle) (ID:0x20, 0x21)

In VTSI_MAT

Number if sub-picture streams in VTSTT_VOBS 1
Sub-p_01: Sub-picture strean addtributes 1 0 101 110 0 1
sub-picture attribute details:
Language type present
Coding mode 2-bit rle
Language English
Language extension [00]
Code extension (sub-picture caption) caption/normal size char

I did not see anything in the IFOs that looked like specification of the closed caption so I am at a loss on how to switch it off.

Thanks

[Dimmer]

Originally posted by windtrader
OK. I have a headache and give up.

I've used this technique many to turn on and off audio streams as well as subtitles. I have just encountered closed captions that are on by default and I would like to hide them by default.

There is a regular English subtitle AND the closed caption. The English sub does not show by default but the closed caption is visible. Are you sure you know what Closed Captioning is? That's a totally different thing from subtitles, stored within MPEG header and transmitted to TV on line 21 of TV signal. You turn them on/off with TV remote, not DVD remote and not though IFO files. Most of North American DVDs and TV broadcasting contains CC, so you must have noticed them before. (This is purely an NTSC thing, counterpart of PAL's teletext I believe.)

[windtrader]

You turn them on/off with TV remote, not DVD remote and not though IFO files.Yes, I solved my problem when I finally discovered the closed caption option somehow got checked on in my software DVD player. Once I turned the CC option off, they do not show up anymore.

When I go the problem, I assumed since IFOs can be changed to enable/disable subtitles, I thought the same was true for CC. That was way off!

[DMagic1]

After doing this with some other movies with no problem I now get and error. I get this error after tring to add a new precommand. It happens if even if I leave it as nop. This pops up when I try to save.

**Update**
It was the dvd files that were bad.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/m/dmagic1/stuff/nosubproblem.JPG

[Holomatrix]

Hi, alot of info here. Thank you. When playing a movie like KillBill 1 the subtitle English 1 stream is activated and plays fine but when I DVDshrink it and select that sub stream it doesn't show up even though I have Pre Command...(SetSTN) Set Subpicture Stream: #(Off)...[51 00 00 00 c0 00 00 00] set, I still have to use my remote to select the sub stream. Where else can I modify or set the default sub stream? Where was the option to force them on again?
Thanks

EDIT: WWould this work better for me? Taken from dvd-replica.com.
SetSTN audio=1 (subpicture=1):on 51 00 00 80 C0 00 00 00

[Holomatrix]

This is my Pre Command but still when I put the DVD in my player, subtitle are OFF. Damn :(

SetSTN (subpicture=1):on
51 00 00 00 C0 00 00 00

[2COOL]

@Holomatrix

Check your PM.

EDIT: Just found this relevant thread (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35692). ;)

[Holomatrix]

Thanks, I'll send you the stuff when I get home but I think the problem is probably the way I have to set my DVD player to have subtitles OFF and for some reason overrides the settings in the re-authord IFO but there must be some other command on the origianl disc that takes precidence over all and displays the subs when needed because Originals play fine. If your wondering why I have my DVD player set to Subtitles OFF is because if I don't then any re-authord DVD plays an English subtitle track if its on the DISC which ofcourse I don't want if there is no foreign language speaking. I might have to come to the conclusion that I need to re-author movies that don't have a foreign language speaking and remove all sub tracks or trancode FULL disc on movies that do.

[2COOL]

Try doing this.

In your DVD Shrink VTS_01_0.IFO, do these changes.

___________________________________
1. Open up VTS_01_0.IFO with PgcEdit.
___________________________________
2. Click on Title 1 in PGC Selection list on the left.
___________________________________
3. Double-click on Pre command 2
[51 00 00 80 00 00 00 00] 2 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 0
___________________________________
4. For Subpictures, select set to forced.
___________________________________
5. OK to set. You should see this now.
[51 00 00 80 BF 00 00 00] 2 (SetSTN) Set Audio stream = 0 ; Set Sub-picture stream = 63:forced
___________________________________
6. Since we set Audio, subpictures, and angles in one command, Pre Command 3 is not needed. So, right click on Pre command 3 and Delete.
___________________________________
7. Ctrl+S to save
___________________________________
8. Preview to test
___________________________________
Let me know how this works out.

Note: You can also try it out setting the Audio to none and just setting the subpictures.

EDIT:

Disregard the above. The [51 00 00 00 c0 00 00 00] should've worked. Did you try it on another standalone? I played it in IfoEdit and it shows the subpicture turned on.

[Holomatrix]

Thanks for trying but the subs are still OFF when I play the DVD. There must be something else on the original that forces/overrides the players settings other than that setting/precommand.

[2COOL]

OK. Play your DVD in IfoEdit. Look at the status panel. If it's a blank then no subpictures selected. You shouldn't see a blank since we forced the subtitle. If so, I think you may have a problem with your standalone.

[Holomatrix]

That didn't work but the other one I sent you is working in WinDVD so I know it is fine normally, just not with my DVD player. I'll just have to do FULL disk backups for movies that have subtitles.
Thanks anyway

[Stryker-1]

I used PGCedit to force a sub but it didn't work. WinDVD still showed the sub disabled. I then set the sub and checked ON. That worked. I then tried, just for shits and giggles, forcing the sub again using PGCedit and again it didn't work in WinDVD.

One other note: after setting the sub in PGCEdit and ensuring it worked in WinDVD I used Instant Copy 8.0.3.0320 to shrink "Hidalgo". Well, the sub was gone again. It appears IC8 set the sub to off again. What a PITFA.

[2COOL]

Originally posted by Stryker-1
forcing the sub again using PGCedit and again it didn't work in WinDVD. I sent a message to rolZ on this matter previously.

[Holomatrix]

PGCedit looks cool but seemed to not work for me either. Ifoedit DVDplay didn't show subs, neither did WinDVD, they play'd them as disabled. The files modified (setting default audio and Subs) manually by Ifoedit or automatically by DVDshrink do work properly with WinDVD or Ifoedit DVDplay. (To bad my DVD player needs some type of other command to force a default sub stream that's present on a FULL disk backup :) ) Oh, well I can live with doing FULL disk trancodes with subtitled movies since DVD media is so cheap nowadays.

[r0lZ]

There is a bug in the "forced subtitle" option in PgcEdit v0.3.3. This will be fixed in the next release.
Do not use this option. Setting the subtitle to stream 0 with the ON checkbox enabled should work.

If still no success, then try playing with the subtitle streams GUI in the PGC Editor. It is possible that no subpicture is assigned for the current video mode. If your video is a 16:9 aspect, this is probably the problem.
- Open the PGC Editor for your movie's PGC.
- Click on the subpicture 1 button, note the current stream numbers, and try to set all streams to 0 or 1 (or any other value that was in the original setup), and see if it is OK.

[nt_1973_au]

hey,

having trouble getting subtitles to work on "TOP SECRET". any tried burning this movie?

nt

[lamster]

Originally posted by Holomatrix
If your wondering why I have my DVD player set to Subtitles OFF is because if I don't then any re-authord DVD plays an English subtitle track if its on the DISC
Whenever I see this, I add a command to turn the subtitles off. (See my post in the Van Wilder cheat sheet (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42415&perpage=20&pagenumber=3) thread for details.)

[Holomatrix]

Thanks for the info. Can you post me a link to Mark's Tray DVD?
Thanks again

[video]

Okay that's somewhat straightforward, but what if i have made subtitles for 4:3 and 16:9 displays for 3 different languages, so there's 6 subtitle streams. how can i turn one set on by default? the stream number is dependent on the player's display setup, ie: 4:3 or 16:9 display rendering...
Any idea?

[mpucoder]

You don't use the stream number in the command, you use the track number, which is the same for all display modes. Scenarist started this confusion by overusing the word "stream". Look in VTSI_MAT for the subpicture (and audio) track languages and extensions. If the one you want is first, use 1 in the command, etc. The player will then use the table at the start of the PGC to select the stream number.

[r0lZ]

Interesting, mpucoder!

So, the logical 'thing' that is defined in the VTSI_MAT should be called a track? And the track will reference a specific stream in the VOB, through the stream status in the PGC?
If it's the case, SetSTN do not set the stream, but the track, SPRM 1 (ASTN) is the audio track number, SPRM 2 (SPSTN) is the subpic track number?
Of course, it is best to use different names for different things, but why is the audio track acronym called ASTN and the subpic SPSTN?

[mpucoder]

Because everyone calls everything a stream. I am going against the establishment when I say track, but to me it is a more logical name for it. The specs distinguish them by calling the number used in SetSTN as "audio/subpicture stream" and the mpeg stream or substream number as "decoding stream number". Since mpeg pre-dates DVD it seems to me that the responsibility for choosing better terms fell on the DVD spec designers, and they failed.

But, call it a stream if you want, just make sure you say which kind.

[rapscallion]

Ok, I'v read through the guides and it does seem like a pretty complex/tedious process just to turn subs on or off. Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just run it through Shrink ( to turn off) w/the subs deleted ?? No video processing involved and pretty quick compared to the Pgcedit/ifoedit methods

[r0lZ]

In shrink, you can change the audio or subpic track only in reauthor mode, and you must regenerate the DVD. Writing 4GB or more is... tedious! And you need disc space.
IMO, adding a SetSTN command in the pre commands of a title is really easy! And you have to write the IFO file only.
A big part of the discussion here is only theoretical. You don't have to fully understand it to be able to set a default track. Just experiment a bit with the SetSTN command to learn how to use it.

[CoNS]

Ok, I'v read through the guides and it does seem like a pretty complex/tedious process just to turn subs on or off. Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just run it through Shrink ( to turn off) w/the subs deleted ?? No video processing involved and pretty quick compared to the Pgcedit/ifoedit methodsWell, like most other things, this is actually very easy to do, once you know how to do it!! :D I agree that if you haven't tried PgcEdit before, it can be hard to figure out at first sight. But I can highly recommend investing some time in learning to use PgcEdit - it will open up for a lot of new possibilities for you when it comes to DVD editing.

[rapscallion]

rOIZ.....reauthor mode is NOT necessary, subs/audio streams can be deleted in full backup mode.You're right about the disc space and processing.

Cons...it may just be in the first read through that it seemed a bit overwelming. I'll give it a try.
Edit: turned subs off via Pgcedit method, and you were right. Once reading and then doing, it was no time at all. Worked like a champ.

Another question : if the original movie did not display the subs by default, why does it do so after DVD Decrypting to the hd and burning untouched ???

[deejay220989]

Need to ask a question..

My LOTR DVD plays a danish subtitle in default..

But I want it to play English subs in default..

Sould I just change the code or what?

[schumi77]

hi,
the problem with the solution provided on the first page of the topic is that it can't be done on a DVD with several episodes. If you do it, and decide to change the language you have put by default, this default value come back after each episode.

So, i search through the DVD structure and find that audio selection was save in GPRM(12) and subtitle selection in GPRM(13) ... but i suppose it can differ between DVDs.
I found those value with PGCEdit in trace mode, by looking for the "if" switch when executing SetSTN audio ....

I finally put a break point on GPRM(12) and GPRM(13) and found that those variables where initialize to "0" before the root menu. So I changed those initial value to those I needed (1 and 1) and it works like a charm n_n.


Thx for the guide which, at least, taugh me what to search.

[r0lZ]

Great finding, schumi77!
It's also exactly my method! Welcome to the PgcEdit's Power Users Club! ;)

[Kenwood]

Excellent guide !
Works like a charm.
Big thanks 2Cool!

Kenwood

[dashali]

HI 2COOL & r0lZ
I have a DVD with 3 subs: en, es, fa
I give the command "51 00 00 C2 00 00 00" to be "fa" a default sub. That worked but every time I try change sub throuth Subtitle Menu and then Play Movie, sub don't change.
In other words, this method works in remote or bottom's PowerDVD but don't work throuth Subtitle Menu. Why?

[blutach]

Probably because the pre-commands are executed again instead of a RSM.

Regards

[dashali]

Explain more. please.
I don't understand!

[blutach]

2COOL's method involves changing the title's precommands to set a preferred subtitle stream on. If these commands are executed again after you have been to the subtitle menu, then the subtitle selected from the menu will be irrelevant as the precommands will set the preferred default on again.

After going to the subtitle menu and selecting another subtitle, resume the movie by pressing the "menu" button on your remote. This will ensure the precommands are not executed again (including the additional set subtitle command).

Regards

[r0lZ]

If you are not happy with that method, you can try the Jump To PGC Upon DVD Insert method, explained by blutach in this guide (http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/Jump2PGC/Jump2PGC_guide.html). Read carefully point 9.
The drawback of that method is that it will skip everything that is played before the main menu, including the menu intro.

[dashali]

Dear Friends, I attach my DVD's IFO files.
I want 3rd sub to be default sub , in all place of DVD -Main movie, Title menu, Root menu, Sub menu, Audio menu, Chapter menu and so on.

with PgcEdit v8.6 :
At first, I add a command to "VTST 1 ,1 TTN 1 , Title 1" , 2nd line of pre commands; but every time I refer to Sub menu for changing sub (e.g. to 2nd sub) , after play movie, 3rd sub became On again.

So, I add this command to "VTSM 1 ,LU 1 , [dummy] , RootM" , 5th line of pre commands, before "LinkPGCN PGC 2"; the above problem was solved but when I refer to Title menu, Sub menu, Audio menu & Chapter menu directly by means menues of PowerDVD, sub is off. I want 3rd sub to be On in these menues.

Where add I this command: "[51 00 00 00 C2 00 00 00] <==> (SetSTN) Set Sub-picture stream = 2, on" to resolving this problem?

[blutach]

Sorry, we can not allow attachments of IFO files. Please read this sticky.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=50765

In any event, we'd need the menubuttons, too.

You might like to try r0lZ's advice posted earlier.

Regards

[meRobs]

Hope this Sticky is not too old for someone to see my question!
I have the latest version of PGCedit and have just added a subtitle stream to a movie and wished to 'force' it on in PGCedit.

Having added a Cmd at the start of the movie, I found two choices for Set STN.
The first allows the new stream to be Set, which appears as "0 on" in Trace. Then, Subtitle 01 is checked in WinDVD and the subtitle plays in my DVD player. So, all is well.

I also tried the other option: "Force Subpic 0" in the Set STN panel. This gives "63: forced" in the Cmd, "31 On" in Trace and, in WinDVD, neither 'Disabled' nor 'Suntitle 01' is checked, yet the subtitle plays!

Since the latter seems confusing, I chose the first method.

Question: is there any practical difference between "Set to" stream 0 (only one subtitle) and "Force Subpic 0" ??
Thanks

[r0lZ]

Honestly, I have never understood completely why there is this option 63 (forced) in SetSTN, as it is possible to force some or all subpics of any subpic stream anyway, and not only the first one, as "Force Subpic 0" implies.

Forced subpics are used to display subpics when something shown in the image (and not spoken) must be translated. For example, in an US movie translated to French, the French movie title can be shown using a forced subpic.

Technically, any subpic of the stream can be flagged as forced, but the flag for the particular subpic is in the subpic stream itself (in the VOB file) and therefore is not controlled by PgcEdit. (You can change the forced flags with DVDSubEdit.) Then, if the stream containing forced subpics is made current but "off" (with a SetSTN command or automatically by the player or if there is only one subpic streram in the domain), then the subpics that are flagged as forced will be shown anyway. The subpics that are not flagged as forced are shown only if the current stream has been turned "on" with SetSTN. Note that when there is only one subpic stream in the domain, it is always current, so if it contains forced subpics, there is no way to hide them. In other words, that means that the current subpic stream is never completely off: forced subpics are always on.

It is, of course, also possible to author the forced subpics in a stream containing only them. In that case, there is no need to set the forced flag, as the stream can be turned on normally.

So, IMO, there is no need for that "Force Subpic 0" command. To display the forced subpics of stream 0, it is sufficient to SetSTN subpic 0, off. The "Force Subpic 0" option is present in PgcEdit, mainly because it is documented in mpucoder's DVD Information site (see SPRM 2 here (http://www.mpucoder.com/DVD/sprm.html)), and because PgcEdit must be able to show that command in its GUI, but I have never encountered it in commercial DVDs.

If someone has more info, please let me know.

[meRobs]

Thanks heaps for the comments.
I assume then that for a single subtitle stream, turning it ON with PGCedit will always have it play in a DVD player.
In my case, there was no menu for selecting audio or subtitle streams, so, if the setting fails I have no way of correcting it!
It works in my current DVD layer.

I might have a look at DVDsubEdit.

[mpucoder]

Stream 63 is used to remember that the user has not selected any subpic stream. The intent was the remote or code in VM would be able to turn the current subpics on and off. Without stream 63 the VM would need to use a GPRM to remember that the user's last choice was "none".

[r0lZ]

Hum, in PgcEdit, stream 62 is used for that purpose. Stream 63 is labelled "force subpic 0". IIRC, I took that information from your site. Has it changed?

[mpucoder]

You're right, 63 is "forced". The player will start out set to 62 to indicate "none". VM (and possibly a remote, but I don't know of any with a button for "forced") can change the value to 63 to enable forced subpics from the first stream (it's not clear if "first stream" means lowest numerical stream number or first listed in the PGC - best to list 0 first if possible). In either case setting the "on" bit should not display the unforced subpics, and there lies the difference between explicitly setting the stream number and choosing 62 or 63.

[r0lZ]

Thanks for the explanation, mpucoder.

But I still doesn't understand. 62 means "not set", but IMO it should be "not explicitly set", as the player should decide which subpic stream to show based on the language code of the current audio track and the user preferences. Right? So what's the point in turning that "not set" stream on? If it's just to force the player to not change the stream (and keep displaying the forced subs of stream #0), then it is easier to SetSTN subpic 0, off. I am wrong?

[mpucoder]

I think you're getting menu and title domains confused. A menu PGC can have only one subpic stream (and it must contain nothing but forced subs). Which PGC that plays is determined by language preference, language unit, and possibly VM jumping. SetSTN is allowed only in VTSM and VTST domains, and affects the title's subpicture stream, not the menu.

So here's one scenario where the values save a GPRM. You have a setup menu to select audio and/or subpic language. Doing so will use SetSTN and alter the default value of 62 to a valid stream number. Now the title begins, in its pre commands it checks the SPRM values of audio and subs. If SPRM 1 is 15 it means the user made no choice for audio, so the pre commands can make a decision. Same for SPRM 2 being 62. Having a value for not set (by the user) eliminates the need for using a GPRM to remember that. The same for choosing forced only. Some movies have forced subs that are not language related, BOV's are one example. The setup menu can have choices for subs like English, Spanish, or follow the rabbit. Setting the SPRM to 63 indicates an explicit choice of forced, and the on/off feature of the remote, if present, does nothing. If instead you use stream 0/off you will get the forced subs, but if the remote has a subs on/off button it will work.

The only time a player's firmware should make a choice of audio or subpic for a title is when SPRM 1 == 15 or SPRM 2 == 62. The choices should be based on SPRM 16, 17, 18, and 19, although most players I have will choose an audio track but leave subs off. If there is no matching audio or sub stream the first one listed is supposed to be the default.
The player always chooses audio and subs for menus by deciding which language unit to use, which should be based on SPRM 0. If there is no matching language "unspecified" is the default. If there is no "unspecified" then the first LU is used. btw in the ifo the language code for menu domains audio and subs is always 0 since it can be any language.

[meRobs]

MPUcoder: since I'm not up to all the tech terms you use, please summarise for me!
Consider a Movie with only audio set on a foreign (for me) language and only one subPic stream present (English).
Is it best to set the SubPic to 0 with 'on" checked or to "Force subpic 0" on the STN panel. The former gives "0 On" in Trace and the latter gives "31 On" ??
Thanks

[mpucoder]

If you want to see the normal subpics use 0/on. Most movies will not show anything with "force subpic 0".

Stream 63 should be called simply "forced" not "force subpic 0" as we are not forcing the display of stream 0, but rather displaying only those subpics which are denoted as forced from the first track. Each subpicture within a stream can be either normal or forced, this is coded into their command structure. Forced subpictures from the selected stream are always displayed regardless of the "on/off" flag, whereas the normal subpictures in the stream will display only if the stream is "on".

"Stream" is an overused word in the specifications and in most software related to DVD. The SetSTN command actually is talking about tracks. In 16:9 movies a track can have 2 or 3 streams associated with it, which one that gets used is determined by the display mode of the player - wide, letterboxed, or pan/scan. The PGC contains a map of track to stream(s).

btw, if there are forced subpictures in a thread (video, audio, and subpictures from one angle of one story multiplexed together form a thread) every subpic stream must have matching forced subpics in them. The forced subpics do not have to have the same graphic, but they must have the same timing.