DV to DVD problems using CCE 2.62

[marcel2271]

I have been struggling with this for weeks now. I am trying to make a DVD out of interlaced PAL DV. I use CCE 2.62 to encode my DV AVI into mpeg2 (mpv). On my standalone DVD player most of the movie looks perfect but every now and then I see a very short jump. It looks like the video jumps back one or two frames and then continues without a problem. Most of the times this problem shows up when the camera is moving horizontally. The source DV AVI file looks normal and so does the .mpv file when I play it back on my computer using the Media Player. When I encode the same DV AVI using TMPGenc 2.5 the DVD looks perfect on my standalone DVD player.
I am 100% sure it is not a field order problem because I make sure the .mpv file is set to bottom field first (bff) after encoding. I use the Mpeg Fixer tool from Darim or Restream to accomplish this (I am aware of the field order problem in CCE). Then I check the result with the Bitrate Viewer. When I do not convert the .mpv file to bff and author it to DVD the result looks terrible (video is shaking all over). This is expected. So again, it is not a field order problem.

I used the following steps to create a DVD out of my PAL DV AVI file:

- "capture" from my DV camera via firewire using Studio7
- Read the unedited AVI into CCE 2.62
- Encode the AVI to .mpv and .mpa (3 pass VBR)
- Change the field order in the .mpv file to bff (Meg Fixer)
- Multiplex the .mpv and .mpa to .mpg (TMPGenc 2.5)
- Author the DVD (Ulead DVD movie factory)

Ulead DVD Movie Factory is not re-encoding my video so that cannot be the problem either.
I also tried a different authoring program (DVDit) and read in the .mpv and .mpa seperately. No luck.

CCE settings:

- 3 pass VBR
- Avg. bitrate 6000; Min. bitrate 3000; Max. bitrate 7500
- Checked Add sequence end code under the video tab (rest unchecked)
- Luminance level: 16 to 235 (I also tried 0 to 255)
- Intra DC precision: 10
- DAR: 4:3
- Timecode 01:00:00:00
- GOP M=3 N/M=5, SEQ header: every 1 GOP
- Close all GOPs
- Audio bitrate: 224 kbit/s, joint stereo, enable CRC
- Image Quality Priority: 10
- Anti noise Filter: off (I also tried 3)
- Matrices: the one from mb1

I also tried the above with the DVD compliant setting checked but it didn´t help. And I also tried frameserving out of Adobe Premiere 6.0 instead of reading the AVI directly into CCE. Unfortunately without any improvement.
When I used TMPGenc I used comparable settings (2-pass VBR).


Your help is highly appreciated!
:confused:

[marcel2271]

Isn´t there anybody who can help me? Does nobody recognise this problem? What am I doing wrong here? Are your CCE settings different than mine for DV source?
Again, I appreciate your help.

[auenf]

this is the CCE field order problem, read the FAQ in the CCE forum, or use pulldown or MPEG Fixer (in DVMPEG) to swap the field order.

Enf...

[marcel2271]

@ auenf,

Thanks for your reply but in the problem description (see above) I mentioned that I always change the field order to bottom field first with Mpeg Fixer or Restream. So it is not a field order problem.
Any other suggestions?

[flash]

I don't know if this will help, but when I do my DVD's I always use
GOP M=3 N/M=4
And leave close all GOPs unchecked.

Just an idea.

[marcel2271]

@ flash

Thanks a lot for your reply. I unchecked "Close all Gops" but left the GOP structure the same. Now everything is smooth as it should be. No jumpy scenes anymore! Thanks again for your help!

Marcel

[marcel2271]

Unfortunately I was too optimistic. I encoded a small piece of the video (about 2.5 minutes) with the settings as suggested by flash. This didn´t result in a jumpy video. However, when I encoded my complete PAL DV AVI file (1 hours and 28 minutes, 18.7 GB) and burned it on a DVD this particular piece still contained the jumpiness. Also other parts of the video contained the jumpiness as described in my original posting :-(
CCE created a 3.7 GB mpeg2 (.mpv) file out of the 18.7 GB AVI file.
How come I don´t see the problem when I encode shorter video files? Is CCE not able to correctly create such big .mpv files? Should I encode smaller video files? Does anybody have good experience with encoding such big DV AVI files using CCE?

[ronnylov]

Just a stupid question: If it looks perfect after encoding in TMPGEnc why encode the same DV avi in CCE? I guess you want to see which encoding method is the best.

I had some similar problem but only after editing in MediaStudio Pro 6.5. The transition effects was jumpy but I solved it by change the field order setting in MediaStudioPro to top field first (strange because DV is bottom field first). But I was encoding with TMPGEnc that time and the jumpiness was only on the transitions.

One thing that could be causing this jumps is your VBR encoding. Perhaps the bitrate variation is bigger when encoding VBR with CCE compared with TMPGEnc and your standalone players DVD drive maybe has problems to keep up with speed changes? I don't beleive this is the problem but you may want to test a CBR encoding and see if there is a difference. There should be no problems to encode big files with CCE.

[marcel2271]

Thanks for your reply Ronny.
The reason I want to use CCE is speed and quality. In TMPGenc it takes me 26 hours to encode the 1 hour and 28 minutes DV file in highest quality (2-pass). In CCE it takes about 6 hours for 3 pass VBR encoding. I am using a P4 2.53 GHz. It is true that the bitrate variation in CCE is much bigger than TMPGenc for similar settings. I checked it with the Bitrate Viewer. I am going to try CBR to see if that will help. But I really want to be able to use VBR for these long DV files. I am surprised nobody ever noticed the problem I described.

[Bordo32]

Just a stupid newbe question: why use the Mpeg Fixer tool to change the field order? What is the field order problem in CCE?
I am going to convert DV avi files captured through ADVC-100 via fire wire using ScenalyzerLife. And I know that a field order will be Lower (B). Shouldn't be just enough in CCE keep the "upper field first" box unchecked, and CCE will encode avi to .mpv file as a lower field order? Please help me to understand what is the idea.

I would apppreciate for your help!

[marcel2271]

@ Bordo32,

CCE always produces upper field first streams regardless of the setting of "Upper field first" option. Many people think this is a bug. It is not a bug but a spec of CCE. In other encoders selecting a field order will result in the TFF flag being set to either true or false. However in CCE SP it always sets the TFF bit to true. If you select Upper field first, CCE shifts the fields around within the clip before encoding them. If you leave this setting unchecked then it still sets the TFF flag but it doesn't modify the stream. ALWAYS uncheck the Upper field first option in CCE if you are encoding DV footage. After encoding you should change the TTF flag with a different tool like Restream (freeware) or with the commercial tool Mpeg Fixer which is part of Darim´s DVMPEG package. I noticed that Restream is not able to change this flag for mpeg video files which are larger than 2 GB. However Mpeg Fixer can do this without a problem. And Restream cannot handle multiplexed mpg files (PS streams) either. It can only handle ES video streams (.mpv files, so without the audio multiplexed in the file). Mpeg Fixer can handle both. There is also another tool called pulldown.exe which can do this but I don´t have any experience with it.

Hope this helps.

[Bordo32]

Marcel,

Thanks for your help.
Now I see that everything is more complicated than I thought.
I just followed some others advise and checked upper field firs box, and everything was good on my PC and a standalone player.
But you are right, I need to figureout how it should be done properly.
I have no idea where to get Darim´s DVMPEG package, I will try to find how to do a puldown.exe.

Maybe someone knows a detailed guide to covert DV AVI to MPEG2 by using CCE and puldown.exe?

I would apppreciate for your help!

[bb]

Just encode your DV AVI file with CCE's "Upper field first" option checked (= leave to default). Else you'll get a doubled line at the top, because CCE shifts the video.

If you need to correct the field order - provided that your DV file is bottom field first as it should be in most cases - use shh's ReStream (or pulldown.exe or the like) to change the field dominance flag.

By the way: If your DV file is progressive, you still need to leave "Upper field first" checked! Else your video gets shifted; CCE does NOT ignore the "Upper field first" checkbox for progressive video.

bb

[RB]

bb, you got it backwards. The line shift occurs only if "Upper Field First" is checked. So, as a rule of thumb, "Upper Field First" in CCE should only be checked if you have bff interlaced source. Unchecked for all other cases (tff interlaced or progressive). See also the CCE FAQ (sig).