CD(!) burning with Pioneer 105 (and other dvd writers?) problems!

[Chibi Jasmin]

Another Pioneer 105 problem (also saw similar reports about other pioneer dvd writers, maybe even sony, I am not sure it is restricted to the 105):

I yesterday tried one of the simpler things...burn an ISO data CD with Nero in DAO Mode...result...'Invalid Field In Parameter' before burning starts, no burn...switch to DAO/96 -> burns, same error on leadout writing.

I tried various aspi layers (and got told Nero uses its own anyway) and also some older Nero versions...same result...I read various reports on people having similar problems, without a real solution. They say things like 'does not support CDs in DAO', 'no dao cue sheet with multiple mode2 tracks' (they refer to image writing with same problem in many different software packages)...

I have firmware V1.21 on that burner, but as far as I read, it is probably not the culprit...

Can anyone shed some light into this? Isn't that thing able to do simple cd-burning tasks? It's supposed to do overburning just fine, and of course DAO...I didn't think, I have to worry about CD(!) writing with this burner....

Anyone can burn a DAO-Data-CD without problems in Nero and a Pioneer DVD burner (no matter which model)? Or a Sony DRU500A? Please report...I am asking, because the Sony might be the alternative to this drive, but I read some error reports about the same thing, but didn't go to deep in research to be sure about that...

So if you have any Pioneer DVD burner or the Sony DRU500A or DWU10A, please report success/failure with ISO Data CD (over)burning in DAO mode.

UPDATE

I also tested with RecordNow Max in the meantime without success...

BUT...the problem might be limited to certain conditions (in particular overburning), since I have been able to burn a few data-cds in dao just fine ...I still can reproduce the problem trying to overburn with nero/recordnow...but I remember I also had it without overburning on simple data cd compilations [these might have been the ones I did after switching to dao/96 for testing reasons]...[NEW: I also have problems with cue/bin not working in cdrwin ('START DAO RECORDING' command failed, cuesheet rejected), same bin/cue worked with Alcohol 120 and Nero (!!)]

I am still interested in people's reports on data cd burning and/or overburning (both dao) on a pioneer/sony dvd writer...please let me also know, if you have any problems burning cue/bin files with cdrwin or other apps...

Is it just the software that fails to overburn correctly? Or maybe even fails to write cue/bins (cdrwin fails, but alcohol/nero work)...?

Or is there something wrong with the burner? Some problems with DAO and/or DAO/96 support? Or overburning support?

I am worried about all this...please let me know your findings on cd-writing with the pioneer dvd burner(s) and the sony...I will continue playing with it...not update this anymore, only, if something significant changes...as of now there are some problems with the dvd burner writing cds I never had with any cd burner before.

P.S.: Overburning test with Nero CDSpeed also gives 'cuesheet rejected', when not checking the RAW option...but dvdwriters.co.uk actually have a screenshot of it working without RAW...they might have disabled some options in the newer firmwares...see also here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45160) (DVD+R reading possible with older firmware, might not work with newer firmware...)...Pioneer is starting to upset me...DOES THE SONY ALSO HAVE THESE PROBLEMS? Please tell me...(of course, it reads DVD+R, but the rest...or something similar...)

One more: Overburning works with CloneCD...I am now mainly searching for a software that can overburn iso data cds in dao with this writer, as cue/bins can be done with Alcohol...

[sentricyphen]

im assuming youve downloaded the latest version of nero(5.5.10.7b)?
thats a whole crap load of problems there dude. but i do know this. i have a sony dru500a, and until i upgraded nero it wouldnt recognize my drive at all.

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by sentricyphen
im assuming youve downloaded the latest version of nero(5.5.10.7b)?
thats a whole crap load of problems there dude. but i do know this. i have a sony dru500a, and until i upgraded nero it wouldnt recognize my drive at all.

Well, I tested 5.5.10.7b, but also 5.5.9.17 and a few others...same result...

You say 'I do know this'...you mean you have about the same problems with your sony burner?

[alexnoe]

Jasmin: A friend of mine has the same problem. (Nero and cdrecord)
Appearently, the drive cannot overburn. In DAO mode, the software is telling the drive how big the disc will be. If it is too much => "INVALID FIELD PARAMETER".

In DAO/96-Mode ("RAW-DAO-96"), the drive does not know the final size (and thus cannot reject the attempt to overburn!). Actually, the drive doesn't know anything at all. The recording software even has to compile the TOC and correctly put it into the Q-subchannel of the leadin.

But it can stop after 81:30 (80min+leadout)...anyways, if it crashes only during leadout, the disc should be fine.

CloneCD probably doesn't report errors during leadout...

There is hardly any possibility to cause the effects you've reported with a software bug in raw-dao-96 mode: The slightest error and usually every CD would be rendered crap...

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by alexnoe
Jasmin: A friend of mine has the same problem. (Nero and cdrecord)
Appearently, the drive cannot overburn.

Well, a lot of reviews (none of them using 1.21 firmware so far) claim it can overburn and some actually have screenshots of that...(my nero also claims overburn capability, but maybe that doesn't mean anything)

They must have disabled some functionality in newer firmwares...anyone here with an older firmware to test?

BTW: What do you think, why CDRWin gets 'cuesheet rejected', while Alcohol burns the same cuesheet just fine? (It was a VCD with 2 mode 2 tracks)

[sentricyphen]

no, when i said "but i do know this..." i just meant the only thing i know is that the drive wouldnt work till i upgraded nero

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by sentricyphen
no, when i said "but i do know this..." i just meant the only thing i know is that the drive wouldnt work till i upgraded nero

Okay, I got it...unfortunately I already have latest Nero...

[alexnoe]

Jasmin: Are you sure that Alcohol burns a cue sheet at all? Loading a cuesheet file and buring in cuesheet mode are 2 things which have nothing to do with each other.

[Chibi Jasmin]

I have no clue, what you mean...but the resulting vcd played fine...i selected the cue file it loaded the bin and burned it...

the same cue/bin combination got rejected with cdrwin...

Ah well..now that I think about it....cuesheet mode means (don't know much about it, just heard a few things)...transferring the cue sheet to the recorder...and maybe there's a different way of burning? Well, at least Alcohol manages to write the disc...I wonder, if it would overburn, I didn't have the time to create a large enough image and try it out...

UPDATE

I couldn't let go and created a raw image (mode1/2352) of a normal overburned data cd with cdrwin. I chose mode1, because I wanted to test overburning and not for the multiple mode2 cuesheet problem...

Result: Burning with CDRWin: cuesheet rejected, burning with alcohol: invalid field in parameter...

They really must have disabled overburning capabilites (and multiple mode 2 track cuesheets and maybe dvd+r reading) in the firmware...as I said, I saw screenshots of people that have done this...

[alexnoe]

@Jasmin: Yes, the other mode is RAW-96 (called DAO/96, RAW-DAO-96, RAW-PW, DAO-PW, and more):

In normal DAO mode, the writer receives the cue sheet, compiles a TOC and then creates a leadin from the TOC.

In RAW-96 mode, the writer doesn't compile anything, neither does it receive a cuesheet. It just receives one sector after the other, with 2448 Bytes/sector.
The software is responsible for making leadin with toc -> data -> leadout.

In RAW-96 mode, the burner has no idea about the final size of the disc.

RAW-96 mode is mainly used for 2 purposes:
- write non-standard discs (weird subchannel data, using the same sector number twice, writing indices to data tracks...)
- if the drive's firmware is broken and does not handle the cuesheet mode properly (liteon 48125W/S, liteon 52246S with older firmware, liteon 48246S with older firmware, some LGs for example)

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by alexnoe
@Jasmin: Yes, the other mode is RAW-96 (called DAO/96, RAW-DAO-96, RAW-PW, DAO-PW, and more):

In normal DAO mode, the writer receives the cue sheet, compiles a TOC and then creates a leadin from the TOC.

In RAW-96 mode, the writer doesn't compile anything, neither does it receive a cuesheet. It just receives one sector after the other, with 2448 Bytes/sector.
The software is responsible for making leadin with toc -> data -> leadout.

In RAW-96 mode, the burner has no idea about the final size of the disc.

RAW-96 mode is mainly used for 2 purposes:
- write non-standard discs (weird subchannel data, using the same sector number twice, writing indices to data tracks...)
- if the drive's firmware is broken and does not handle the cuesheet mode properly (liteon 48125W/S, liteon 52246S with older firmware, liteon 48246S with older firmware, some LGs for example)

Well, the funny thing is I have a liteon 48125W and never had to use DAO/96, maybe it's just with older firmware as you said...

so the issue with the pioneer burner might as well be the firmware? It seems to have worked with older firmware...a pity, there's no way to flash old firmware at the moment, otherwise I would try...

Noone knows, if they deliberately broke it or by accident...

[alexnoe]

The LiteOn 48125W writes crap in DAO mode if you burn a Mitsubishi 4x-10x RW at 12x.

If overburning is not working at all, you can be 99% sure that it could be fixed by firmware.

[Chibi Jasmin]

Originally posted by alexnoe
The LiteOn 48125W writes crap in DAO mode if you burn a Mitsubishi 4x-10x RW at 12x.

If overburning is not working at all, you can be 99% sure that it could be fixed by firmware.

Well, I only burned PLATINUM and EMTEC CD-RWs with the LiteOn so far...no problems, checked files and integrity very often...

And about the firmware issue...let's hope Pioneer will actually do this (or a hack will appear)...there are a lot of people worrying about diferrent things that Pioneer is doing to the latest firmwares (cheap media support, overburning, dvd+r support etc.)...hope they will improve again

[vcdude]

I am having the same problem with a Pioneer DVR106. Same error messages.