Guide: Trilight's UberGuide for FULL Disc Backups!

[TRILIGHT]

Ok, I must say that it is still not exactly where I would like it to be but it's a start. I tried to make a guide out of a clickable flowchart which documents exactly how I do my own projects from start to finish. It may not be perfect yet but it should go a long way to helping "newbies" understand what all is involved in the process of making a FULL disc backup. The challenge may seem daunting at first but I assure you, once you've gotten a few of these under your belt, there's just no going back. It's the only way to make a real DVD backup. The site, of course, is http://dvdguides.trilight.net I've placed the old guides under, well...old guides. ;) Just in case anyone still wanted to access them for something. Personally, I think they're a bit obsolete. I'm hoping the "UberGuide" will become a "living guide" and change as my project style changes. I hope you find it helpful!

[caprioles9000]

www000tttt wickedd.........and Trilight does it again:) Thnx man ..people should really know what you have been giving back to this community ..all together will all the other admins....thnx to everyone involved in this whole community...i am sure that i can speak for others when i say ....you guys rock:)

[waldok]

HAPPY :

Impressive.
Trilight you are the master.
That's a great idea to use this flowchart format to allow direct access to any given step in the process. And one can see you've put some efforts to it, with all the details and stuff.
I'll follow these steps tonight and see if you really deserve the golden belt.



Enough flattery now.
UNHAPPY :

Where is the god damn printable version ? printing your guide is a pain in a sensitive part :D

Cya on IRC.
Waldok:cool:

[onesoul]

Hey dude ;)
I am sure when one day I have a dvd burner I will find your guides very useful. I just saw through them and it looks very promising. Thanks for the patience :)

[Piece]

thx 4 the guide!

seems like the guide wasn't written 4 dvd noobies (like me). i have some problems at the point when it comes to the scenarist. everything before that worked fine, created dvdimage, extracted all the streams, saved the sub bmp's and encoded the extras + movies. now i dont get forward. i've inserted all video (4) & audio (8) streams into scenarist by clicking on menu "New -> Data...". how exactly do i create the tracks from this now? if i go into the track editor, nothing is there. could u maybe write down the scenarist part in more detail or add some more screenshots plz?

greetz piece

[TRILIGHT]

@Everyone
You're welcome! I'm glad you find the guide useful. I had my doubts about even bothering with it considering so many people seem enamored with movie-only poor quality tools like DVD2ONE.

@Waldok
As I mentioned, the idea behind the guide was to have it be a "living" guide where any part in the process (or the flowchart itself) could change at any moment. This way, things don't become outdated too soon. Printing stuff out is ok I suppose but it pretty much kills the idea of a "living" guide. Believe me, once you've done this a few times, you won't even really need the guide anymore. ;)

@Piece
It took forever just for me to put together what information I did. I guess I didn't really consider that people would not know how to make tracks in the "Track Editor". It's really rather simple. When you're in the Track Editor, all of your assets are in the bottom right-hand corner window. All you do is drag a video asset into the upper window and a track is made. Double-click it and you will see the "timeline" for that track. Drag-and-drop your audio onto it and audio tracks are created for that video.

[fourtyfour]

servus...

Nice work.

But a few questions:

-What does "Das UberGuide" mean?
-Could you make your flowchart one size bigger. My brain works better with big graphics. ;)

[TRILIGHT]

Loosely translated from German, it means "The Super Guide". As for the size, there is a drop down arrow at the bottom of the screen that will let you make it as big or as small as you like. I too would like to see that setting remain constant if you choose one in particular but I've not yet found a way to do that. Sorry.

[caprioles9000]

Trilight ...is there a way to print out your uber guide......i tried but could not succed:(.......any ideas....cause sometimes i like to have things in front of me on paper!!!

[auenf]

Originally posted by TRILIGHT
Loosely translated from German, it means "The Super Guide". As for the size, there is a drop down arrow at the bottom of the screen that will let you make it as big or as small as you like. I too would like to see that setting remain constant if you choose one in particular but I've not yet found a way to do that. Sorry.

you will need to use a script (preferably serverside) and cookies to do that.

Enf...

[tomos]

i can see the menu's fine, but when i click on:
Take me to Das UberGuide!!

all i get is a grey bar underneath and to the right of the main window (which is blank) :(

[waldok]

Das über-Trilight,

WHat is "a few times", considering Scenarist is involved and I only use Maestro ? You probably meant "a few hundred times" ;)

Anyway, so much for printing the whole guide, I'll manage to print out parts I want to examine at night in my bed...but what about printing the flowchart itself ? It could be used as a handy reminder of the workflow to follow during the backup process.
Do you have any "printable" version available ? I can't manage to print it out from Internet Explorer neither from any tool I tried.

Come on Uber-trilight, I know you can do it ! I want this flowchart as a 2mx2m poster in my office. Quick :D

Waldok:cool:

[Piece]

ok, i moved on in the guide :-) finally i even succeeded in creating a working dvd, but not how i'd like it to be :-(
1. i get warnings and errors with the subs, something about size too big blablalba...
2. adding chapters manually .... i don't understand one word
3. finally i have the authored files and the original from the dvd. what do i have to do in ifoedit now? it don't looks so "straightforwarded" to me :-(

plz help

piece

p.s. do i need idoupdate or ifoedit? is that the same program? doom9 has just linked ifoupdate and that doesn't look like ur screenshot

[TRILIGHT]

@Tomos

You might want to check your browser installation or settings. I'm not sure exactly what to tell you. You have some sort of problem preventing you from viewing XML, Java, or CSS correctly.

@Piece

I'm not sure what to tell you. First, I don't really understand your actual question(s?). If you can tell me specifically what you are trying to do and how it is not working for you, I could more easily formulate an answer for you.

@Everyone who wants to print

I feel that printing the guide goes against the entire idea of it being a living guide that can change on-the-fly. It's only been up for a couple of days now and I've already made 2 changes and 3 additions. More is sure to come as I plan on adding instructions for "Closed Captioning" as well as possibly going back and redoing the movie "Insomnia" to give people a better idea of how to work with VOBID's and how seamless branching works. However, I can see the advantage of having the flowchart in front of you while working on your project and since that section will change less often, I've made a printable GIF file for you. You can download it from the "Tips and Tricks" section on the site.

[Piece]

ok, i try to make it clear. question 1+2 are not so important now.

i have finished everything in scenarist so far and save it to the vobs. next step in ur guide is field "IFOupdate". at first what program is that u use there? the link at doom9.org just gives me a program called IFOedit 0.95 but it looks different. and that's where i am stuck. i have now my authored vobs and the remaining files from the original dvd (video_ts*, *0.vob, all IFO & BUP files). i guess the final step would be to actualize the IFO file. hope my problem is more clear now.

[TRILIGHT]

IFOupdate is a tool written by Jdobbs...

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43105

If you use the search function here on the forum, you can usually find things you're looking for, in case it wasn't on the front page like this one is.

[Piece]

i'm a genius! i finally made it! thx 4 all the help

btw ... some1 should tell the doom9 admins to fix that link to ifoupdate .65 in the download section

[TRILIGHT]

You're welcome, Piece. Glad ya made it. :)

[waldok]

thanks for the GIF flowchart. I'll go get it now. I'm sure my wife will like it as a big poster in our bedroom also... ;)

Waldok:cool:

[TRILIGHT]

Poster eh? I could always give it to you in a hi-res format that would print well in "big ass poster" form. LOL!! I'm just not going to make it for download. I already don't like that the download is 150K. Might not seem like much but it really hurts users on dial-up.

[tlian]

Hi,
I try to use the Das UberGuide to recreate the DVD, these are my
process. (Before, I always use default PCG demux)
1. Use DoItFast4you to demux by VobIds, it generates 2 large
one and 4 small mpv files.
2. add the generated AVS files for the large m2v files to CCE,
3. exports to cce.ecl
4. generate the chapters file using
IFOUpdate's "chapters for VOBID authoring"
5. add the chapter files to each section in the cce.ecl file
(after the "encode_last" line of each VOBID)
6. import the cce.ecl to CCE and encode.

Since I have slower machine, I want to try how to do the manual chaptering before continue with second pass, So I do the following,
7. add the 2 generated CCE_07_V01_1.16~9.mpv.m2v and
CCE_07_V02_1.16~9.mpv.m2v to the scenarist
8. add the 2 assets into the track editor, and add the audio.
9. usually, I export the scenarist script and use scencap to add
chapters, but in this case, what should I do here?
10. I skip step 9, then add the two track to the scenarist
layout editor, but the result has only one chapter per vobid

Can someone help me how to add the chapter manually. The ScenChap seems to be working for PGC based demuxing only


Thanks
tlian

[TRILIGHT]

You should be placing scenes where they belong on the track and then when you drop it in the scenario, you'll see those scenes as chapters. I understand the guide is a bit lacking in this respect but it will be resolved by the end of the weekend. By the end of the weekend, I should have all of my notes complete for the example title I am including (Insomnia).

[technolog]

I'm sorry if this is a bit 'newbie' but in Trilight's Uber guide he says 'import avs scripts into CCE' but I cannot figure out for the life of me how to do it.

I've tried searching the forum for 'avs AND cce' but after reading the first two pages of 'hits' I hadn't come anywhere near to an answer.

I'm assuming there is an intermediate step that isn't mentioned. Previously I've used VFAPI on the d2v file to generate an avi which I can open in CCE - is this still valid or is there a better, higher quality method?

Can some kind person take pity on me and nudge me in the right direction please.

By the way, I'm using CCE 2.62

Technolog

[tomos]

dont you just right click in the white central area and choose all files intead of 'avi files' and open the avs file

[tlian]

@TRILIGHT
Thanks for your great guide, hopefully you have time to
fill in the detail especially the chapters for vobids demuxing.

@technolog
Do you demux the asset using DoItFast4You? it generates the
AVS files for you


tlian

[TRILIGHT]

You're welcome, tlian! This information will be included at the bottom of each page and will be titled "Insomnia Notes...". It will provide a full explanation of how to make a full backup of the disc "Insomnia". Some may find they would like the notes all in one place so I'm going to make my notes a document available for download as well. I should have it up on the site by the end of the weekend.

[technolog]

@ tomos

That was the first thing I tried, but I get a CCE error message dialog saying 'this is not an .avi file'

@tlian

Yes, I use DIF4U and I've got the .avs file - it's how to get it into CCE (ver 2.62) that I don't know.

[student]

Hi TRILIGHT and everyboby else.

First of all I would like to say thanks to TRILIGHT for this great guide. I am doing SVCDs with DVD2SVCD for about ayear. But now I've just bought a DVD burner so I was looking for guides to do DVD to DVD-r. I think its a great guide and I am giving it a try right now.
I have a few stupid Q though:---

1. Why do I need to extract VTS's with (DIF4U) when I am going to keep everything that is on the original DVD and

2. HOw do i decide which VTS to extract and which not to.

Ok I am stuck here. what happened that i ripped the DVD(before I saw this guide) in file mode with all the files selected. But when I saw this guide i just created an iso image(from those files) and mounted on virtual deamon drive. Its plays fine in the player but when i start my project in DIF4U,it starts dvd decrypter and comes up with the erroe message "UDF Parsing Failed Reason:Function 'UDFFindPartition' returned
So what do I do now. Please dont ask me to rip the dvd again because I can't.

Thanks in Advance.

[waldok]

You have to install Avisynth first.

Check the CCE guides in doom9 page.

WAldok:cool:

[technolog]

I installed Avisynth (after CCE was already installed) and CCE still doesn't let me open .avs files.

Looking in the Avisynth plug-in directory - there are no files. Do I need a plug-in for CCE?

technolog

[Eyes`Only]

The .avs support is native in CCE 2.5. The only way you can use an .avs in cce 2.62 is to encapsulate it with a payware app called link2. I recommend going to cce 2.5 as that's what most of us are using. Just a thought. I wouldn't pay for link2, but then again I don't really like the author either.

[technolog]

Thanks Eyes`Only.

So why was .avs support dropped from a supposedly newer version of CCE? Is version 2.5 better (in terms of quality or features) than the later versions?

Also is there any reason (quality or speed) why I shouldn't carry on using VFAPI to generate an avi for CCE to do its stuff on?

technolog

[student]

Hi I managed to solve the first two problems myself but I still dont know how to go with the DVD ripped with file mode(see post above).

I have another problem now. In one of the output avs script from DoItFast4you i get two files with .AVS-no-cce files and thus CCE wont encode these scrips. What I am doing wrong here. I tried that particular VTS set with both vobid and PGC extraction with no success.
PLease help.
Thanks in Advance.

[Eyes`Only]

technolog:

I'm not a member of Cinemacraft's staff, consequently I have no idea why they would drop .avs support, unless they never intended to have it in the first place. 2.5 is much faster in my opinion, although there is rumor that 2.6x+ are higher quality. I personally have tried both and they both give a great result, so I don't think you'll be missing anything by using 2.5 like all of us.

I would recommend you don't use VFAPI. It will drop your CCE speed by at least 1/3. ie. CCE speed of 1.8 will drop to 1.2 or so with VFAPI. Yuck.

student:

Those .m2vs that go with that .avs are too small to worry about. Just use the original .m2v (no transcoding necessary) in Scenarist.

In order to create a DVD Spec compliant .iso, you have to use a utility like imgtool. A regular .iso creating util will never work. It has to be able to structure it perfectly in UDF format.

[Doom9]

actually, it's wrong to assume CCE 2.50 had native Avisynth support. By the time it came out AviSynth was not very widely used, and the fact that the extension isn't listed as supported format should tell us that we're just lucky that it works. In fact, CCE 2.62 has another file reading mechanism allowing for better support of large files (4+GB, OpenDML and such) and somehow that broke AviSynth compatibility. AviSynth support was officially introduced in v 2.64 when Cinemacraft apparently realized that AviSynth had become a serious video processing option.. apparently us hobbyists aren't the only ones using AviSynth to feed CCE.

If you have a CCE version not capable of handling avs files, then as Eyes' mentioned your best shot is Link2 which unfortunately isn't free. If VFAPI works for you, fine, except the speed you're not loosing anything (of course, AviSynth is more flexible so if you're into filtering and stuff - yuck - then you might not want to miss the added functionality).

@student: it's a personal preference which VTS you're going to process and which not. As you may have noticed there's a treshold in DIF4U you can set, by default VTS sets smaller than 200MB won't be processed. By processing a VTS you'll normally at least reduce the size by half, so depending on the size of a VTS this might have quite an impact on the quality of the main movie. So basically you decide by the size of a VTS and by your personal taste. I would normally process a VTS that is larger than 1 GB, and depending on the number of VTS sets below 1GB also those (in order to keep my main movie as good as possible). Process or not process a VTS is in the end making the tradeoff between faster processing time (less work) and quality of the main movie.

[student]

Doom9 Thanks for the reply. All the above problems are solved now. Now I havw advanced to the Scenarist and I have a very complicated VTS. This particular VTS have 32 PGCs.
1. The first PGC only have video
2. The 2nd PGC have video and one 2chAC3 id82 audio
3. The 3rd PGC have only video
4. The 4th PGC up to 8th PGVhave video and two 2chAC3 id82,83 audios
5. And the rest from 9 to 34 PGCs have video and one 2chAC3 id82 audio

So how do i go about dummy files in this case ,please help.

Thanks in Advance.

[TRILIGHT]

From the information in the guide concerning the use of dummy files, it should be apparent. However, if you still require further explanation, you might want to check the information I will have on the dummys when I post the advanced "Insomnia Notes" information. It shouldn't be long now.

[student]

Ok TRILIGHT ,thanks for that.
Ok as i can understand i should add the dummy files as follows:---
1. In PGC 1 i add 4 (2chAC3) dummy audio files with IDs 80,81,82,83 respectively.
2. In PGC2 i add 3 (2chAC3) dummies with IDs 80,81,83
3. In PGC3 same as PGC1
4. In PGC4 to PGC8 2 (2chAC3) dummies with IDs 80,81 AND
5. PGCs 9 to 34 3 (2chAC3) dummies with IDs 80,81,83

Is this Right?

[TRILIGHT]

Sounds pretty close to me. The thing you need to be careful of is making sure that the channels and bitrate of any given audio on one stream line up with the same number of channels and bitrate of audio on that stream in a different track!

Another thing to note is that you do not need to use dummies on tracks that had no audio to begin with. You can leave all audio off of that track and you will not have a problem.

[TRILIGHT]

Ok, I've finally posted the "Insomnia Notes" Advanced Guide! You can access it by clicking on the "Das UberGuide!" link on the main page and it is accessible via the UberGuide intro page. It's a first draft and, as I stated, was written as "notes" so please keep this in mind. If you feel something is left out, it's probably because you do not yet have a grasp of the basics. I've included a WHOLE LOT of ADVANCED information in there so be prepared! ;)

[student]

Hi Again,
I have advanced a little bit more into the Scenarist. Can we use the Scenarist v2.7 Pro od we have to use Scemarist v2.6 NT only? Can someone also point me to a good Scenarist step by step guide?

I am sorry but I have to ask. Do I need to put all the VTSs into the scenarist even the ones I am not encoding or doing anything to them(i mean cause they are small enough). Also when i start a new project in scenarist "in the option for how many video title sets would you like" do i have to set the number to the same as the number of total VTSs on the original DVD OR the number of VTSs i am processing with scenarist that the number of VTSs i've made changes to (reencoded etc.) OR set the value to 1 to do all the vts one by one. Also if I set the value to 2 or more then when going to the next screen it asks to set the aspect ratio 4:3 , 4:3 (pan and scan) and 16:9,if i select one fron them say 4:3 ,but my VTSs could be one 4:3 and the other 16:9. How do i go about that.
I really need to learn a great deal about Scenarist so please be patient with me and dont get angery and point me to the right direction.

Thanks in Advance.

[Doom9]

Both versions will work just fine. In fact, for me v2.7 always crashes so I went back to v2.6.
As for step by step.. both Trilight's guides and my own (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/multipgc-guide.htm and http://www.doom9.org/mpg/ifoedit-cce.htm) should go into enough details so that you can follow them. I have another Scenarist guide (http://www.doom9.org/mpg/scenarist.htm) but this one is more if you create your DVDs from scratch.

You only have to recreate VTS sets that you're going to process (I know I mentioned that in my guide.. hasn't been too long since I wrote it ;), plus you actually want to recreate all VTS sets you're processing minus the one for the main movie in a first phase. This allows you to better calculate the bitrate for the final movie as you already know how big your extras will be in the end (that's also part of the guides). As for the DAR don't worry, the project settings seem only to apply to menus and Scenarist will take the correct DAR directly from your assets (if in doubt check the asset properties).

Since you're new at this might I suggest you read the 2nd of the guides mentioned above (ifoedit-cce.htm) a couple of times? It explains a relatively simple case which might help you get started (Trilight's one and my new one deal with a more complicated case and may thus be less suited to help somebody get started with this).

[student]

Thanks, I think ifoedit-cce.htm guide is very good fo me to understand Scenarist.
In this DVD I have 5 VTSs
VTS_1 is the main Movie, VTS_2 is only 34 Meg, VTS_3 is Extras(34 PGCs) about 3 Gig its actually bigger then the main movie, VTS_4 is about 280 Gig and VT_5 is about 18 Meg.
VTS_1 I havent as you say encoded yet.
VTS_2 and VTS_5 are small enough to keep as is on the original DVD, &
VTS_3 and VTS_4 are to be reencoded and recreateed.
So as I understand in Scenarist i set the no. of VTSs to 4. This will give me 4 VTSs icons(with golden disc in the middle) in the scenario editor tab. and then i drop the redpective video and audio assets into the titles.
a VTS in Scenarist = VTS on dvd
a title in scenarist = A PGC on dvd
a track in scenarist = a pgc on dvd

Thanks.

[TRILIGHT]

Originally posted by student
a VTS in Scenarist = VTS on dvd
a title in scenarist = A PGC on dvd
a track in scenarist = a pgc on dvd

This is not correct. There are color-coded pictures on my mine and Doom9's guide explaining what is what concerning PGC's, VOBID's, etc.

[student]

But is the rest of my post correct? That i set the number of VTSs to 4 while creating new project in the project wizard. Or should i do ove VTS at a time?
I think i choose the wrong DVD (ICE AGE)for my first DVD to DVD-r authoring. I just found out that in VTS3 in PGCs 13,14,&15 there are 5 angles(cells) on each one of them.
So you think i should leave this one for the time being and start again with some other simple and easy DVD. I am in Australia and so all dvds are PAL and most of the dvds here have only one or two Audio streams(one main 6 ch ac3 and one 2 ch ac2) and only one subtitle stream.
Thanks.

[student]

Hi Again,
Sorry guys I had to write here to know more. I left "ICEAGE" and started on a simple one. The main movie VTS is a single PGC but when i extracted it i got two M2V files and only one AVS script file. Why there is two m2v files from a single PGC? If i see this in ifoedit ch 16 have two cells:--------
[ch 16] [Pg 16] [Cell 16] [V/C Id: 1/16]
[Cell 17] [V/C Id: 1/17] Layer Br.
Do I just ignore the other m2v(168 Meg) and just encode the one (3.99 GB)with the AVS sript file created.

Any help is good,

Thanks.

[Eyes`Only]

sounds like you're trying to demux on a hdd formatted with FAT32. That filesystem is limited to 4gig max file size, so the rest of the m2v carried over into another m2v.

I recommend you upgrade to NTFS. That multiple file stuff will get annoying.

[student]

Oh yeah how can i be so stupid, but doing this first time is really making me crazy.
My VTS2 have 3 PGCs,
and PGC1 have uses VOB-IDs 1,3
PGC 2 have 2,3 and PGC3 have 1,2,3
So it should be extracted by vobid right, but when i do it gives me 2ch.AC3-0byte file which scenarist wont take.
But hang on on this DVD vts1 is the main movie. and vts2,vts3,vts4 are only 90,19,8 megs respectively so i really dont need to extract them at all. So as i understand i just encode the movie(VTS1) and copy the other respective BUP,IFO and VOB files directly from the DVD to the final Scenarist project folder. Is this correct?

Thanks in Advance.

[Eyes`Only]

demux by pgc. I really hate that the guides are starting to mention vobid.. it's confusing many ppl. that vobid3 is one frame. just demux by pgc and author.
Then you have two options:

1) add the first chapter of pgc1 and pgc2 to your scenario as pgc3.

or

2) add the first chapter of pgc3 as pgc1, and the second chapter of pgc3 as pgc2.

It works either way. You just have to understand what's in an .ifo.

[TRILIGHT]

The guide CLEARLY states...in great detail...exactly when it is and is not appropriate to demux by VOBID. I just don't know how much more detailed I could possibly explain it than it is already explained. I can't force people to read and comprehend. ;)

[student]

TRILIGHT thankyou very much for again answering my novice question. I can't appreciate much that how wonderfull your guides are. Its excellent. Its not your fault that i dont understand. I promise that i wont ask any more questions unless absolutely needed. But please understand that i am trying my best. Once i got one done under my belt i'll be ok. I didnt even sleep properly in the last 4 days. I think thats my problem. And on top of all that Cricket world cup is breaking my concentration. I'll have a break during the weekend and read afreash again and hopefully get the hang of it all. My main problem area now is Scenarist. I'll try to read the manual for that.

Eyes`Only thanks to you too. you couldnt have done better.

Thanks to you guys again. and dont let people like me put you off.

Thanks Heapes.

[TRILIGHT]

You're very welcome, student. It's not that you "put us off" either. Please do not take it the wrong way. It's that we don't have a lot of extra time outside of our jobs and what we do here on the forum and on the IRC channel, to walk someone through every step of their particular project. We do the best we can to guide people along and to answer specific questions.

It's when people start asking things like "I have this IFO with A, B, and C. Where do I put A, B, and C? Do I do one and then the other? Can you look at this IFO and tell me exactly what I should do?" We just don't have a lot of time to spend holding everyone's hands (no offense intended here) on every project they try. We try the best we can to point people in the right direction and to help them when they trip and fall. There just isn't enough time in the day to do everyone's projects for them. I certainly hope we did not come across as being rude.

[student]

Hey TRILIGHT . By no means either you or anyone else were or are rude. I can understand your concerns about all this. You have written the guides to make other people's life easier and still you have to put up with all those questions. But i think the very first project is the harder for everyone. Once i get one done then i'll be more confident and mature to do the rest without much help. Whats the IRC channel and server you talked about?
I have finished the Scenarist part(i think). Now i have to work on the ifoupdate part and the rest. I dont know that in which cases you have to rewrite (update) a particular ifo. That is if i didnt change anything in a particular vts except reencoding then also i have to use ifoupdate or not? Scenarist also creates VIDEO_TS files. Do i use these or the once on the original dvd? Also as i didn't touch the other 3 VTSs on the original dvd , do i just copy those straight from my original to the final dvd compilation?

Thanks.

[waldok]

You guys are being so gentle to each other you're going to make me cry :D

Waldok:cool:

[Piece]

got a problem with a buffy dvd.

there are 3 VTS on the disc:
1. scripts
2. 20th century fox intro
3. menu+4 episodes

dif4u extracts everything but the menus. vts 1+2 i'd like to use exactly how they are on the new authored dvd. i've already encoded the 4 episodes, looks great. but how do i integrate the menus now? they are inside VTS_03_0.VOB. the menus are not mentioned in ifoedit for vts_03. i'm a little stuck here now. plz help me someone. if u need any additional info, just tell me and i post it.


files on the dvd:

10.09.2002 17:28 14.336 VIDEO_TS.BUP
10.09.2002 17:28 14.336 VIDEO_TS.IFO
09.09.2002 21:25 212.992 VIDEO_TS.VOB
09.09.2002 21:25 28.672 VTS_01_0.BUP
09.09.2002 21:25 28.672 VTS_01_0.IFO
09.09.2002 21:25 0 VTS_01_0.VOB
09.09.2002 21:26 20.135.936 VTS_01_1.VOB
09.09.2002 21:26 14.336 VTS_02_0.BUP
09.09.2002 21:26 14.336 VTS_02_0.IFO
09.09.2002 21:26 0 VTS_02_0.VOB
09.09.2002 21:26 20.015.104 VTS_02_1.VOB
10.09.2002 17:05 116.736 VTS_03_0.BUP
10.09.2002 17:05 116.736 VTS_03_0.IFO
10.09.2002 16:58 51.367.936 VTS_03_0.VOB
09.09.2002 21:48 1.073.739.776 VTS_03_1.VOB
09.09.2002 21:55 1.073.739.776 VTS_03_2.VOB
09.09.2002 22:02 1.073.739.776 VTS_03_3.VOB
09.09.2002 22:04 290.709.504 VTS_03_4.VOB
09.09.2002 22:11 1.073.739.776 VTS_03_5.VOB
09.09.2002 22:20 1.073.739.776 VTS_03_6.VOB
09.09.2002 22:29 1.073.739.776 VTS_03_7.VOB
09.09.2002 22:33 602.671.104 VTS_03_8.VOB
22 Datei(en) 7.427.899.392 Bytes

greetz piece

[TRILIGHT]

Originally posted by Piece
but how do i integrate the menus now? they are inside VTS_03_0.VOB. the menus are not mentioned in ifoedit for vts_03.

My guide clearly states what to do about menus. However, since you are working with IFOedit instructions, you can't possibly be following my guide for your backup so I'm at a loss for why you would bother posting on this thread. You should post your question in a new thread in the IFOedit forum. This thread is only in reference to the UberGuide mentioned. Thanks.

[waldok]

Hi Uber Trilight,

Maybe you saw my posts in Advanced authoring forum about strange Audio tracks in the ScoobyDoo DVD, one track having 2 different StreamIds, one being standard audio track and the other director commentary. I couldn't find this type of strange stuff in the uberguide, so I was wondering if maybe you already came across such a strange thing. DVDDecrypter won't extract these streams correctly (talked with Lightning UK about it already) so do you know anything about it ? I looked into your Insomnia advanced notes, but there was no such case. Any idea ?
(Can't PM you, so I posted this here, hope I don't bother)

Unter-Waldok:cool:

[TRILIGHT]

Usually it's just a matter of lining the audio up to where it was originally. I believe at least that much is listed in both guides. Other than that, you'd need to change stream ID numbers in the IFO files after you were done. I believe this is mentioned in at least one of the two guides as well as the "Tips and Tricks" section.

However, from the sounds of it, you've not even extracted the audio you want yet. What exactly do you mean when you say it "won't extract correctly"? What *does* it extract? How are you splitting it up? Does it write a file at all? If so, what does it name it and is there any sound in it? A ton of different things could be happening and I'm not quite certain where you're stuck at.

[Piece]

oh my goodness!

somehow i overread that ALL *_0.* files have to be copied to the final dir. my fault, sorry to have bothered ya.

but i got another question to that i didn't find an answer in your guide. are there any "dummy"-files for substreams? dif4u has extracted substrems 00,01,03. 02 is empty on the dvd, contains no subs. when i try to mux it with scenarist (with empty substream) it quit with an error. i included now a substream with just 1 picture, hope this makes no problems.

[Noldor]

Hi, I don't know if this is the right place for my problem but since I'm using Trilights Uber Guide I'll try it here.

I'm trying do do a FULL Backup of my X-Files Season boxes. Therefore I proceeded as described in Das Uber Guide to make a backup of disc one of season one. On this DVD for the first episode there are two deleted scenes which can be played during the episode by pressing enter/select on your remote. To find the positiones to press enter there is a subpicture stream which only contains an "X" on these positions and nothing more. According to IFOEdit the chapters in which the deleted scenes are to be optionally played are divided into 4 cells (all others having just one cell). The subpicture X is displayed during the shortest of these cells.

I rebuild that cell-structure in scenarist and everything seemed to work well. But when pressing enter in one of this particular scenes (where the X is correctly displayed) nothing happens. Maybe I have to add a jump command or something like this, but I have actually no clue how this function works. Perhaps some people have tried an full Backup of the X-Files seasons and has faced and solved this problem. Or maybe someone had another DVD with a similar deleted scenes functionality and could help me doing this.

Thank You

Noldor

[Eyes`Only]

This is called Button-Over-Video. There's a guide for it on Doom9. It can't be done with the uberguide in it's current state, I think. Perhaps Trilight will modify it for us later, but for now, you'll need the Button-Over-Video guide (and a lot of time and patience) to recreate that feature!

[Noldor]

:) I've found and read the Button-Over-Video Guide. This is what I actually was trying to do, but knowing what to do to be able to crate a highlight layer. I'll try this method :D

Thank You Eyes`Only for that hint

[Eyes`Only]

Glad to assist. It's always a pleasure to help those that are not part of the mindless-zombie community of one-button tools.

[Luper_PT]

My congratulations for TRILIGHT. Excelent guide.

However, I have a problem with subpictures (well, maybe the problem me).

There are many PGC's with only 1 PGC in main movie but using 2 diferent VOB-IDs, 1 for layer 1 and 1 for layer 2.

PGC_1 (program chain): [Titke (TTN):1] [01:56:35.05 /25 fps] (Program:12) (Cells: 13) (uses VOB-IDs: 1,2)
[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/1] : time: 00:06:57.01 /25 fps [Pos: 00:06:57:01] [Frames: 10426]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 1/2] : time: 00:07:31.22 /25 fps [Pos: 00:14:28:23] [Frames: 121723]
...
[Ch 10] [Pg 10] [Cell 10] [V/C Id: 1/10] : time: 00:04:02.21 /25 fps [Pos: 01:31:49:10] [Frames: 137735]
[Cell 11] [V/C Id: 2/1] Layer Br.: time: 00:08:32.05 /25 fps [Pos: 01:40:21:15] [Frames: 150540]
[Ch 11] [Pg 11] [Cell 12] [V/C Id: 2/2] : time: 00:11:06.03 /25 fps [Pos: 01:51:27:18] [Frames:167193]
...

The result is when I extract by PGC I get 2 equal subpicture streams in folder SUB like if there are 2 subs in PGC. Now, what to do with them?

[TRILIGHT]

Glad you like the guide, Luper. As for your problem, are you sure there is only one sub stream? What are the names of the files you are referring to?

[aquabubble]

@luper: You're not confusing the .forced.SST as a second stream are you?

[Luper_PT]

@TRILIGHT

Thank you Trilight for your reply and your time,

My title is Chocolat, Portuguese edition. But I think this problem is common to other titles. These are the files I get in SUBS folder:

VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues.forced.sst
VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues.sst

VTS_01_VSUB_P1-02-Portugues.forced.sst
VTS_01_VSUB_P1-02-Portugues.sst

VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0001.bmp
...
VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0966.bmp

VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0001.bmp
...
VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0966.bmp

More,
VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0001.bmp = VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0001.bmp
...
VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0966.bmp = VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0966.bmp

Sorry my bad English

[aquabubble]

@luper: you're English is fine matey ;)

Firstly, is only one subpicture stream listed in the IFO? Is it mapped to two different stream IDs (i.e. 0x20, 0x21)?

Also, if you look in the VTS_01_VSUB_P1-02-Portugues.sst, what do the start times look like for the individual subpictures? Are they from the beginning of the movie or half-way through?

[Luper_PT]

@AQUABUBLE

Thank you AQUABUBLE for your reply, but I think I'm not confusing nothing, as you can see im my prev reply.

[Luper_PT]

@Aquabuble,

Onse again, Thank You AQUABUBLE,

In fact when I play "Chocolat" there is only 1 sub, when I open IFO I get 2 ID: 0x21, 0x22.

Both .sst are equal, both have 0966 .bmp associated

1st .sst:

0001 00:00:51:24 00:00:55:12 VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0001.bmp
...
0966 01:52:32:10 01:52:36:02 VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_0966.bmp

2nd .sst:

0001 00:00:51:24 00:00:55:12 VTS_01_VSUB_P1-02-Portugues_0001.bmp
...
0966 01:52:32:10 01:52:36:02 VTS_01_VSUB_P1-02-Portugues_0966.bmp

More:

VTS_01_VSUB_P1-01-Portugues_n.bmp = VTS_01_VSUB_P1-02-Portugues_n.bmp

Thank You again AQUABUBLE

[TRILIGHT]

You most likely have one stream associated with Letterbox and one associated with Widescreen. Usually, I just use one for both when I reauthor. (You'll see the "W" and "L" boxes to the left of the stream when you import it into Scenarist.) There may be a slight difference in text positioning in the different BMP files.. At any rate, you can most likely safely ignore one or the other.

[Luper_PT]

Thank you Trilight,

All OK now. :-)

[Eyes`Only]

Trilight to the rescue!

[atreides93]

Trilight, I was reading your latest "uberguide" and you're using scenarist now?? don't you use maestro anymore? I think your older guide used maestro...

[TRILIGHT]

I've used Scenarist for quite some time now. I wrote that old single-PGC Maestro guide about a year ago. I pretty much use Scenarist exclusively now. I only use Maestro when it comes to my TiVo material since I am able to "trick" Maestro into believing the DirecTV MPEG stream is DVD compliant. Maestro is a good tool and certainly has it's place but I do not feel it is flexible enough for DVD backups.

[atreides93]

Hmm, well maybe one of these days I'll learn how to use Scenarist. It seems a bit more complex than Maestro, but I guess once you get past the learning curve its not so bad. I just have so little time these days for my hobbies since becoming a dad.

By the way, that guide you wrote a year ago works really well today, I'm going to use it for all my backups now. The quality you get using CCE instead of instantcopy or dvd2one is definitely worth it. Especially on 3 hour movies :)

[waldok]

Atreides, congratulations for joining the "Doom9-former-DVD-hobbyists-united-dads-crew".
I don't want to worry you, but I'm afraid you won't get as much time as before for DVD stuff from now on (believe me, I've got 2 children ;)

Now, concerning Scenarist, even a dumbass like me was able to use it (at least in its basic functionality). I can tell you it rules and I never wanted to go back to Maestro ever since. I was a bit afraid at the beginning, due to all screenshots showing multiple boxes and arrows everywhere, but thanks to the brilliant Trilight guides and lots of help from other "heads" here, it became really easy. Go for it, you won't regret it.

(And have good nights now that you've got your own little night-screamer home :p )

Waldok:cool:

[atreides93]

thanks waldok.

trilight i had a question about a step in your uberguide.
you mention editing the CCE ecl file to include chapters. i can see how you'd need that to precisely match the chapters with where they belong...but i've never done this and it seems to work fine in maestro. i wonder if maestro automatically just assigns the chapter to the nearest I frame? is this step required just to make it a perfect match? or does scenarist have problems importing a chapter list if it points to a frame that isn't an I frame?

[Eyes`Only]

Both Scenarist and Meastro attach chapters to the nearest I-frame. Putting your chapters in CCE just ensures accuracy as to the exact I-frame they were originally at. CCE puts periodic I-frames on it's own, so you'll get decent accuracy (a frame or two off) if you don't.

For VobID demuxed video, CCE chapters are required, because the accuracy is much more neccessary.

There's nothing Maestro can do that Scenarist can't :D

[atreides93]

ah ok, thanks for the info :)

by the way guys, i noticed in trilight's older guide he was using subrip, but now you and trilight seem to suggest that vobsub is more accurate? I'm using subrib 1.15 which is newer than the one trilight mentioned in his guide from last year. maybe the new version works better now? have you guys tried it?

[Eyes`Only]

Actually I liked subrip 1.14 a lot. Then 1.15 came out, and the author did some stuff to it that I did not agree with, and when I asked Zuggy about them, he wasn't very responsive to my/our needs, so I looked elsewhere. Subrip seems to concentrate more on non-dvdr related stuff, which is entirely unneccessary in my world.

I contacted Gabest, and he was amiable and helpful. He modifies vobsub for me constantly, and even created some apps for me to use to make DoItFast4U even more helpful for us. When I need a feature, I consult him and we decide if it's 'doable'. If a user finds a bug, I talk to him and we work together to diagnose/fix it. His devotion to my app has been more than invaluable. You'll notice newer versions of DoItFast4U even make the .ssts for you automatically now, because of his ability/support!

So in closing, I really liked Subrip 1.14. And yes, it was accurate. It didn't have automation that allowed CLI interaction though. When 1.15 came out, it had CLI by Doom9's requests, but several things were changed that made it worse than 1.14 (IMO, as well as many others).

Accuracy is not really the issue though. Both apps rip subs quite accurately.

[atreides93]

Thanks for the info.

I tried scenarist finally. Ok I admit initially I was really frustrated by it. hey there's no "save" button? and save as seems to erase the project somehow. ok after those initial annoyances, i guess i like it well enough :)

i successfully authored a simple 2 pgc dvd with it last night.
i'm going to try importing chapters and subtitles soon.

[Eyes`Only]

Glad to see you're finally making the switch! Yeah there's no save, changes are made on-the-fly, and when you close all changes are saved.
Work with it a bit longer and you'll realize the power you have at your fingertips now though!