Looking forward to a new shoot-out

[Doobie]

Xvid which didn't finish the last test
WMV9 which wasn't in the last test
Divx5.03 to see what a difference a few passes make
and whatever else

[duartix]

I second that.
Since DivX 5.03 has been launched and since the last (un)stable build of XVid is actualy prooving to be a very stable one, it's time for a new shootout.
But we have to give Doom9 some time to do it properly.

[Doom9]

To give you a little preview, the next codec comparision will have the following contestants: Divx3.11, DivX 5.03, RV9, WMV9, XviD 1.0 (I don't want to test unstable builds) and whatever else people might throw at me. There will be a 3rd clip which will outline how codecs perform an animation content. Other than that I have an idea how to maybe get more codecs and get in touch with codec makers but we'll see about that when it's time.

[trbarry]

Cool! I always look forward to these, and tend to quote them for months afterwards.

I suppose it's too early to consider H264 in here, but sure would like to know how it stacks up.

- Tom (not volunteering) ;)

[Ookami]

@Doom9

Thumbs up!

[gldblade]

So then the only real question is: when is XviD 1.0 coming out? :)

[Tommy Carrot]

Originally posted by trbarry

I suppose it's too early to consider H264 in here, but sure would like to know how it stacks up.



I would like, too. :) /Too bad even the spec is not finalized:(/

[phrentec]

Doom9, will you also be including the latest 3ivx as a contestant in the next codec comparison?
-best regards
-phren

[pseudografx]

As XviD is only slowly progressing to the final v1.0, does it still mean there won't be a codecs' comparison before it's released? I consider your (doom9's) shootouts the most representative comparison of all so I'm really looking forward to it. Good luck with your site regardless the availability of the article :-)

[midiguy]

hey, also, RV9 current version of producer has a mjor bug in which two pass is broken (does the first pass and then switches to 1 pass mode for the second pass :( ) so I would also wait for this fix to be released. and also, the RV9 v3 decoder will be out "sometime in 2003" (probably a two or three months), and that is also going to have a lot of fixes and improvments (the jitter that some people get will be fixed, karl says), so it would be really cool to have these releases in the comparison.

also, you know what would make these comparisons you do even better? offer clips for download! instead of just showing screenshots (which I think are very limited and don't really give a "true" feel of the video) is to provide clips of specific scenes to directly compare the codecs. but then again, that requires space + bandwidth, so unless you have some to spare, that could be tricky! anyways, I am rambling, so I am gonna go. bye!

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>Looking forward to a new shoot-out

?

why not make your own tests?
why not make YOUR work YOUR reference?

(and those pages load forever on modem...hehe)

[iwod]

Originally posted by Doom9
To give you a little preview, the next codec comparision will have the following contestants: Divx3.11, DivX 5.03, RV9, WMV9, XviD 1.0 (I don't want to test unstable builds) and whatever else people might throw at me. There will be a 3rd clip which will outline how codecs perform an animation content. Other than that I have an idea how to maybe get more codecs and get in touch with codec makers but we'll see about that when it's time.

I am glad that Anime is finally included in the test......... ( i thought doom9 watch cartoon instead of Anime :P )

I suppose it's too early to consider H264 in here, but sure would like to know how it stacks up.

I like this idea as well...... just as a preview of future video compression included in the test...... ( That may very well depends on the status of H264 when the test is being carried out.

Since DivX 5.03 has been launched

Actually i am expecting a Divx 5.5 before Divx 6 ( which said to come out sometime in end of 2004 )
Since it is still many months away from the divx 6 so i would guess Divx Network would release a update to Divx5.5. If that is the case then include that as well..... :P

hey, also, RV9 current version of producer has a mjor bug in which two pass is broken (does the first pass and then switches to 1 pass mode for the second pass ) so I would also wait for this fix to be released. and also, the RV9 v3 decoder will be out "sometime in 2003" (probably a two or three months), and that is also going to have a lot of fixes and improvments (the jitter that some people get will be fixed, karl says), so it would be really cool to have these releases in the comparison.

I was going to say that as well...hopefully there will be more improvement on the Rv9 codec side.......

why not make your own tests?

Well some people like me only have 200Mhz of laptop to mess with for another few months........ during this time i can not test anything myself....... >_<

Another codec i would like to see in this test is Nero Digital. I have a very high expectation on this codec.... ( well maninly becuase of ACC+.... nothing more :D )

And i like the idea of downloadable clips...... but that will create so much more bandwidth problem that i could have imagine...................

[jeremymacmull]

@ doom9

Ive probably asked this before

but can u include divx 5.02 AS WELL as 5.03 cos a lot of us are still using 5.02 and gknot and we would like to know if we are really missing out ??

JEREMY

[Doom9]

guys, please be patient. It takes a lot of time to make a comparison, and each additional video clip or codec increases the amount of work exponentially. You have to prepare encoding (not every codec can be used via an avs in VirtualDub), get to know the codec/encoder setup, cut out the test scene from the main movie, compare clips multiple times with different codec order while making notes, create screenshot (major pain in the ass, I hope MPC's frame jump now works even for AVIs the next time I have to make screenshots), time an additional encoding session, and then write for hours and hours.
I'm currently working on my diploma thesis in an industrial environment so I don't get home before 6:30pm... so you can calculate how much free time I have. When I invest as much time in a single article I want to make it stick for a long while.

From what I heard so far visual improvements from DivX5.02 to 5.03 are doubtful... SBC is still what it is, as for RV9.. has there been a new release since I tested? Except for XviD the comparison isn't so outdated, is it?
I honestly don't know about H.264 yet. One thing is for sure.. if I have to encode throught the night because it's so slow then we have a problem because my Shuttle barebone makes it impossible to sleep when it's running at full throttle. And how many people with a 2.8GHz CPU are willing to wait days till get the result?

And forget about video clips. I know it would be best, but let's not forget about copyright laws. It would require permission from copyright holders of the DVDs in question to publish clips (and in case of SPR my first clip is really long.. the longer the less likely that you get to publish an excerpt). Oh, and I could definitely not provide the bandwith required. All clips together are several 100MB large. The comparison with images along makes several dozen of GBs and it's only 1.36MB. Say we have 500MB of sample clips (not unrealistic since we now have 3 videos and more codecs than last time), and assume 10'000 people download these clips (not unrealistic considering that the last article was read by hundreds of thousands of people), we get a total bandwith requirement of 5 TB. That's roughly 8 times as much as the whole site makes today (including the software which the main site provides for all translated mirrors). Now take a less conservative estimate of downloaders.... If you want to organize permission (needs to be written and signed by people who can be positively associated with the respective studios) and can provide enough bandwith (to be on the safe side I'd assume 50 TB in 30 days), then I'll consider it.

[iwod]

I think i have a suggestion... but this time is helping doom9..... instead of getting him do more...:D

Well, the idea of doing RV9 is mainly becuase the new anime test. To show how things stack up.

I am thinking why not get some of doom9 trusted reader to help. Just tell them what you exactly want them to do. (Obviosly i supposed that doom9 trusted people will be some one who has a lot of experienced with video encoding)

And tell them to do the encoding for you and sent back the clip to you for comparsion.........

or would this way have infrge the copyright law as well??

[midiguy]

I went through this copyright issue before with my old anime site (anime clips), and as long as the clip is 1 minute or less in duration, then no copyright laws are violated. The law may have changed now (this was about 2 years ago), but I doubt it.

... but that still doesn't resolve the massive amount of bandwidth that you would need. well I guess people can use the exact same settings as you on the exact same movies with the exact same codecs and see for themselves ;)

[Maccara]

Well, I could probably help with the bandwidth somewhat. I did it previously with AC3 and didn't receive complaints whatsoever and besides I do not care if that ISP would complain or ban me for bandwidth anyway.

I'm not sure if I have the space needed, though. Only around 50MB available currently. (with scheduling&cutting, could be arranged anyway ;)

B Rgds,
Maccara

PS. If not too much CONSTANT bandwidth is needed, I can arrange for a gig or few/day bw on a 100mbit/s line with moderate space requirements.

[ohliuv]

Originally posted by midiguy
hey, also, RV9 current version of producer has a mjor bug in which two pass is broken (does the first pass and then switches to 1 pass mode for the second pass :( ) so I would also wait for this fix to be released.
Think they fixed it, didn't they? A version of the producer I downloaded last week works fine.

[ulfschack]

@Doom
I have a 2.7 GHz dual P4 xeon, 1.5 GB RAM just standing there. Maybe I could help out in running a few H264 encodes provided you get me the exact settings and that I have the right source (which I'm sure is Matrix as always :) ) In case of the anime clip we could transfer an original selection over FTP privately.

cheers

Just made a trial run to encode a divx 656x288 to H264. It's at 1 fps => couple of days for a full movie. Actually not far from TmpgEnc's performance :). BTW I did use the slowest settings possible. I think it's acceptable. So use me if you want to.

[Valky]

My opinion is that you should include 3ivx-codec there also.

Althought it doesn't contain 2-passes, I laways use it with high quality-mode for test purposes when I wanna see that my avs-script gives me an output without any errors (like aspect errors, or too dark luma, or any plugin-failures.

It is really fast and easy to use with program like avs2avi (can be found at development forum)and it makes really good job.
Post-processing in their decoder is awesome.