IfoEdit V0.96 B1

[Mishel]

Are there any known problems with this version.

I was sent the 0.96 Beta 1 version (with several other files) by Derrow just before he vanished into the black hole.... sory 321.

The reason that I am asking is that nearly all the posts on this and other forums seem to only talk about older versions and was wondering if there was some problem with it that made all those in the know use the older versions.

[Doom9]

this beta version is non public. I was to write a guide for the beta testers but I found some serious bugs in the new functionality so I stopped and soon after Derrow was hired by 321studios. And so far my worst fears have come true.. IfoEdit development has ceased completely. If you want a piece of Derrow now you have to buy a $99 software from a rip-off company which places stupid copy reminders on your discs rather than to remove them (which was the main goal in IfoEdit development).

[gnutellafan]

Originally posted by Doom9
this beta version is non public. I was to write a guide for the beta testers but I found some serious bugs in the new functionality so I stopped and soon after Derrow was hired by 321studios. And so far my worst fears have come true.. IfoEdit development has ceased completely. If you want a piece of Derrow now you have to buy a $99 software from a rip-off company which places stupid copy reminders on your discs rather than to remove them (which was the main goal in IfoEdit development).

I wonder if Derrow would be willing to sell the source code for ifo/vob edit to the community to be open sourced? We could take up a collection. I finally got my DVD burner just before Derrow left, so I only now seriously began using ifoedit (still have no idea how to use vobedit). It is soooo powerful but there is so much I would like to see added to it. I know Derrow said he would return but I am so afraid that he wont.

How much documtentation is there? The community really needs an open source ifoedit like program. Unfortunatly Im not a programer, though I would be more than happy to donate money and time beta testing.

I totally agree w/ Doom9. My motivation for using ifoedit is to make my DVDs a better experience for me. I hate putting a DVD in and having it take 10 min before I can watch the movie because I have to watch previews and copyright warnings and all kinds of other crap. DVDxcopy makes things worse by forcing you to use 2 discs (like I want to change discs) and adding MORE notices and crap. I wish Derrow would have stuck to his own work with DVDsplit. It wasnt something that I would use (back to the 2 disc issue) but at least he could have continued w/ ifo/vob edit and stayed away from the sleazy 321 studios. He probably could have made more money if he did proper marketing or worked w/ a real company that has a marketing dept in place.

[mpucoder]

Ironically, IfoEdit can be used to undo what DVDXCopy does. :)

[Antonio S.]

Doom9 said:this beta version is non public. I was to write a guide for the beta testers but I found some serious bugs in the new functionality so I stopped and soon after Derrow was hired by 321studios. And so far my worst fears have come true.. IfoEdit development has ceased completely
I received an E-Mail from Derrow two days ago telling me that the Ifoedit project was not DEAD!!! He said that right now he is very busy with his new work, but that soon there will be a bug fix version of Ifoedit 0.95.

Antonio S.

[Doom9]

@antonio: I've heard something like that, too.. but that was a couple of weeks back... you can see how much has happened in the meantime...
I don't mean to be negative but I'm not exactly happy to see a project to drop dead when I've just started to invest some serious time in it again (and that with having really little free time). As an engineer I'll believe it when I see it ;)

@mpucoder: right on :D

[gnutellafan]

Originally posted by Doom9
@antonio: I've heard something like that, too.. but that was a couple of weeks back... you can see how much has happened in the meantime...
I don't mean to be negative but I'm not exactly happy to see a project to drop dead when I've just started to invest some serious time in it again (and that with having really little free time). As an engineer I'll believe it when I see it ;)

@mpucoder: right on :D

Your scaring me doom9. If anyone should know whats up w/ derrow I would expect it would be you.

As for using ifoedit on dvdxcopy, yes, its ironic, by why add one more step (and another disc). I really hope we hear from derrow soon but in the mean time the community should begin considering what we can do to make up for the loss. I suggested approaching derrow about selling the source to the community (money to GPL it). Maybe the author of ifoupdate could be convinced to open source. I havent tried it yet though. Or the community could just begin working on an open source ifoedit. There is a good deal of knowledge about the DVD structure now and ifoedit would be very helpful for creating another tool to do its job.

Of course we could never replace Derrow or the wonderful work he has done but I wish he would realize that he was central to the scene and without him it will grow stagnent. I really wish he would open source ifoedit.

[dragongodz]

now lets not be too hard on 321studios guys. they know exactly what they are doing. they hired a guy (derrow) that actually knows what he is doing and spits all over their own "programmers". see how dvdxcopy was 26 meg b.d. (before derrow) and now its only 6 or 7 meg ? also dvdsplit is dead and ifoedit is on hold (at least).
this is not a small company now either. from an interview with r.h.moore (head of 321) its stated that dvdcopyplus has sold over 100,000 units (and continuing to sell). at $49:95 (u.s. dollars) a go they are not a little player anymore.
so to wrap up. they made (and make) a lot of money from deceptive freeware bundling (dvdcopyplus, yes i still get emails thinking Jean Luc and i are somehow a part of it because they use DVDx, so it is deceptive), they hire 1 of the best programmers for dvd (kill his other competative work and put 1 thats in the same field on hold) and finally charge $99 (u.s. again) for their "solution". now whats not to like about these guys ? :sly:

oh and i actually asked r.h.moore to change the name of dvdxcopy incase people confused it as dvdx copy. he said he would get back to me, never did. funny huh ?

[gnutellafan]

Yeah, its quite a shame to have derrow go work for them. He could have put out a better product on his own that actually worked and made alot more money if he got good marketing behind it. He is probably only going to see a small fraction of any money if the whole company doesnt get sued into oblivion.

As for the company meaning to destroy ifoedit, well, I think there are 2 different user bases and the users of ifoedit are not the ones that are going to use dvdxcopy.

[Doom9]

My money is on 321studio exactly knowing the potential of ifoedit and they're already planning a dvdxcopy plus designed for the userbase that hangs around here (and I bet it won't be cheaper than dvdxcopy). That's at least what I would be doing. After all, ifoedit is about to become a dvd authoring tool and that's worth a lot of money.

[gnutellafan]

Originally posted by Doom9
My money is on 321studio exactly knowing the potential of ifoedit and they're already planning a dvdxcopy plus designed for the userbase that hangs around here (and I bet it won't be cheaper than dvdxcopy). That's at least what I would be doing. After all, ifoedit is about to become a dvd authoring tool and that's worth a lot of money.

Hey, I hate 321, but if they could have derrow bring us full time development of ifo/vob I would love it. I think $50 is more of a fair price though, but if derrow was smart, and if he legally can, he should do it on his own. Either way, as long as ifo/vob edit doesnt die I would be happy.

[mpucoder]

I don't know what is meant by "die" in the last post, but IfoEdit 0.95 and VobEdit 0.6 (and previous) were all released as freeware. That means that I will continue to offer it for free download. I'm guessing that others, such as Doom9 and DVD-Digest will also.

Legally any works written prior to employment by someone remain the original copyright owner's property (unless sold). So Derrow can retain the rights to these works. He did, though, sign away 2 things I never would have. First was DVDSplit (although it was released without any license), and second was any "inventions" while in the employ of 321Studios. What I see happening is more and more of IfoEdit functionality being incorporated into DVDXCopy. As that happens IfoEdit gets chipped away. At some point I expect their lawyers to claim ownership of IfoEdit due to the similarities.

[Doom9]

don't forget that the MPAA is trying to blow out 321studios out of the sky... they could end up owning whatever Derrow develops. And while we're at the subject unless 321 wins that lawsuit they will never release a product that has any chance of competing with IfoEdit.

Anyway, the point here is that right now the future of IfoEdit and VobEdit are uncertain. Whatever you make out of it is up to your imagination. You've heard the opinion of two close (former?) collaborators of Derrow, now you can make of it what you want.

P.S: Derrow has made it clear several time that he would never open source his programs.

If I had to put my money somewhere right now it would be on the doitfast4u & doitfaster4me approach to things. It will possibly never be quite as easy as IfoEdit, on the other hand there's a couple of really talented developers looking at those issues and while we may not get a free authoring tool everyone of us already has an authoring tool that came with his burner... now ifoupdate even supports multi-pgc titles using simple authoring programs, maybe one day seamless branching and multiangles will also be possible with reasonable effort and the use of halfway affordable tools.

[dragongodz]

mpucoder, what i think he meant by 'die' is never be updated again. that could be called dead even though it would still be available.

doom9, i had a look at dvdxcopys forums and they do actually mention rumours of something called "dvdxcopy platinum" which will be able to do things like strip audio and subtitle streams to help try and make the main movie fit 1 dvdr. could this be the first signs of ifoedit functions starting to appear in dvdxcopy ?

[Doom9]

@dragongodz: Could well be that. Though Derrow told me that such a product may be possible after they won their lawsuit against the MPAA. But, it's been a while since his last contact and lately I've been getting more and more confusing info, rather than clear and precise answers so even the best intel I can give you is by my definition speculation and nothing more.
As I said, if I were 321studios I'd kill off IfoEdit and VobEdit and make some money out of it, and I think these people are smart enough to realize that, after all they managed to sell a selection of freeware for 50$ a piece to 100k unsuspecting customers who could've gotten the same for free on my site. You can argue that these people are stupid and I'd agree with you, but on the other hand it shows that this company knows their marketing so I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst (best being continued development of ifoedit, worst being dvdxcopy platinum for a horrendous price and offering only a significantly reduced feature set destined for an audience uncapable to grasp the concepts behind the operations they're doing).

P.S. I think the fact that there's been zero development on IfoEdit for the last 2 months and that Derrow hasn't been in this forum for more than a month while new versions of DVDXCopy are released almost on a weekly basis say a lot :(

[mpucoder]

The only activity I've seen with Derrow is the occasional login to my site to register a few users, and that's it.
I don't want anyone to get the idea that there is bad blood between us. I do understand why he did what he did. He expressed a strong desire to come to America, insisted on speaking English even with Germans, etc. I think his enthusiasm clouded his judgement, and 321 took advantage of that. Also his lack of experience in the area of contract negotiation, and the insecurity that accompanies working here without a permanent job kept him from doing what I would have - be a consultant, and for a lot more money than he got. He was in a perfect position to dictate terms, that is, they needed him much more than he needed them (but, again, the quest to become an American got in the way).

Now, while he has, in a way, met his goals, we have a problem. I see limited ways to solve it.
1) We can try to negotiate the rights to IfoEdit and VobEdit (I don't see that happening yet, but maybe later when Derrow realizes he will not be able to continue developing them).
2) We can try to reverse engineer the programs.
3) We can find a talented programmer willing to start fresh (or extend an existing program that has some similarity).
Although I never saw a line of code, we did discuss many of the problems and their solutions. So I can assist anyone willing to try, and help them avoid certain pitfalls.
One thing I will insist on, this time, is that the source code either be shared amongst several developers and myself, or be open source.

[gnutellafan]

Originally posted by mpucoder

1) We can try to negotiate the rights to IfoEdit and VobEdit (I don't see that happening yet, but maybe later when Derrow realizes he will not be able to continue developing them).

Its a long shot, but if we can get enough interest from the community its worth trying. I have no idea how much the value would be.


2) We can try to reverse engineer the programs.
3) We can find a talented programmer willing to start fresh (or extend an existing program that has some similarity).
Although I never saw a line of code, we did discuss many of the problems and their solutions. So I can assist anyone willing to try, and help them avoid certain pitfalls.
One thing I will insist on, this time, is that the source code either be shared amongst several developers and myself, or be open source.

There are many talented ppl here. With your help and the existing programs to reverse engineer it would be much easier than Derrow's first go.

[VidHack]

MPUcoder,

Your number 3) makes me think about a few things....Please ellaborate on these 'problems and SOLUTIONS proposed while IFOedit was being developed. I have a few thoughts...

The most basic question is, What is IFOedit? My answer is a dedicated HEX editor. Simple. The sources for many HEX editors are available."FRHED""VI32" just to name a few... Now throw in File Stripping routines and stream seperating/demuxing, well vStrip is it, and sources are available. Now you need a DVD player, oh boy where to start, head over to SourceForge and pick one, or use the DirectShow one that IFOedit uses. OK, now for IFO parsing routines, well LIGHTENINGUK is a god at the code, OK, now throw in DVD2AVI, again sources available.

All you have to do now is visit your website, that has all the DVD Stream Info on it (THANKS) Then 'GNUedit' is born.
Just thinking out loud....

VidHack

[gnutellafan]

I agree, I think many of the tools are there to make it an easier go this time around. Just missing one important thing, the programmer ;-)

Wish I knew thing one about programming...

[mpucoder]

Actually, I don't think we need to diplicate IfoEdit or VobEdit. We already have these tools, and they will remain available no matter what 321Studios does. What we need to start working on is what IfoEdit was about to become, an authoring tool.
After working with Scenarist for awhile I realized how close IfoEdit had come, and how horrible the interface to Scenarist is. I consider myself to be very familiar with DVD to the point where I can analyze ifo and vob files with a hex editor (I use Hexorcist and Hackman, myself). I've also used Windows since it came out (I still have a Windows 2 system here running on an 8088), and before that a funny little box from Apple, so I'm also very much at home with graphical user interfaces. But Scenarist baffled me. It took me a long time to learn its way of doing things, and an hour just to accidentally find the way to add closed captions (the manual said you could do it, but not how!)
The key thing Scenarist and other authoring tools do is multiplexing the streams properly. Everything else is rather simple, and a matter of making a good, understandable interface. One that is intuitive, and behaves like a windows interface. You may have noticed that in Windows there is always more than one way to do something. You can use the menu and you can usually right click for a context menu. Files can be added using the menu, context menu, copy and paste with accelerators (cntl-c and cntl-v or shift-ins), and drag and drop. In scenarist there is a mixture of these methods, but no overlap. To open a project you use the menu, to add an asset you drag and drop, and closed captions are added with another window that is context sensitive to another window. No wonder people have difficulty learning this.
So, what I'm proposing is to leave tweaking to IfoEdit and VobEdit, and to build a true authoring tool. And then add the ability to accept authored material as source, to "de-author" it and present it with the same graphics as an authoring project.

edit: I just checked in "advanced DVD authoring" and there is a new DVD authoring package coming from Sonic that promises to have an easy to use intuitive interface. I'm not sure the beta will run on my machine (look at the requirements! 2 sound cards? firewire (OK, have that) .NET framework (will never have that)), but I'll try - I wonder what the price will be? Probably too much, so we should not abandon this concept.

[geffroman]

321 was just plain smart... Derrow will help them build their product for sure. But Derrow was the biggest threat to them as well... They were brilliant to hire him... I too want to be a cheap bastard and get everything in life for free too... But I know it may all stop at anytime...

SO CHILL OUT... SO WHAT if Derrow NEVER comes back...

I have made hundreds of clean fully functional DVD-Rs with menus on double sided Ritek discs, all using the current version of IFOEDIT... I don't need an update to do 1,000 more movies...

Why do you guys all act like you just lost your momma's tittie just cause you don't see ANOTHER IFOEDIT UPDATE to download...

Some of you are so hung up on downloading new software that you forget what you have on your harddrive now works... And will contunue to work until BlueLaser takes over...

Sorry for taking a shot... but the whining has been getting a little thick

[dragongodz]

geffroman, and what a great second post from you that is (NOT). try rereading the posts.

you may be happy with an ifoedit that still has bugs but most people would like to see the bugs fixed.

the talk in this thread has been anything but whiny. its been more about what has happened and how the future is looking at this time.

so we are cheap bastards now aswell ? no we dont want "everything" in life for free but why the hell should we pander and line the pockets of companies that have made millions from decieving people with others hard work ? derrow started selling dvdsplit and no one complained about having to buy it, so much for being cheap.

infact the last lot of posts have been about the posibility of someone doing a replacement for ifoedit eventually (if ifoedit is never updated). thats whining ?

maybe you should reserve your comments until you have read the posts a few times and absorbed whats being talked about instead of shooting off like that.

p.s. sorry if i stepped on anyone elses toes with that (MODs etc)

[geffroman]

2 posts or 54 posts is not a sign of superior intelligence...

I'll be posting my opinion just like everyone else... Funny thing is that I was writing about the WHINERS... You are the one that took offense... I guess that means you think you are one of the persons I was referring to... a little Freudian..!

People can agree or disagree... Everyone can think for themselves... You are not a self appointed magistrate or union leader...

I'll thank you to keep your personal attacks to yourself... Your opinion has been overstated prior to mine being posted today...

Your follow-up is just bullying tactics and somehow you think having more posts than me indicates you have more of a right to express yourself...

I have been an active READING participant of this website for over a year... I think I am entitled to share one opinion after a year of reading... learning... and NOT wasting time on this forum with stupid questions without having to take a flaming from you...

More posts doesn't make you right... Just like me being 6 inches taller and 100lbs bigger than you wouldn't make me right... Bullies are just bullies.

Have a nice day...

[dragongodz]

ahhh so you do know what whiny means. since that had to be the best example i have seen. :)

i didnt flame you at all. i responded to your attack on everyone posting in this thread. you didnt single anyone out so it WAS to everyone.

i never claimed i was smarter than you so where did that come from ? i suggested you reread the posts since you have taken this thread in a way that i dont think most would or have meant it.

yes of course you have a right to express yourself. you dont have a right to call people whiners and cheap bastards and think you will get away with it. now i am also a bully and apparently (according to you) my handle says it all ???? if you knew what my handle refers to you would have some idea, til then you are just being offensive.

tell you what, why dont you go back and compare my posts (in this thread) with yours. i think you will clearly see its yours that have been the flaming/attacking kind and not mine.

my time is too precious to waste responding to this sort of thing so thats all from me.

[Doom9]

@geffroman: As one of the more active participants I cannot deny dragongodz the right to be midly ofended by your remarks. Hey, even I am somewhat offended. I don't think I'm whining about anything and I have personally invested considerably more time for the DVD ripping scene than Derrow.
Nobody in this thread was whining, it's an educated discussion about IfoEdit's future and alternatives. If you've really been reading this board for a year you should know what tone is acceptable and what is not.

[gnutellafan]

Originally posted by mpucoder
Actually, I don't think we need to diplicate IfoEdit or VobEdit. We already have these tools, and they will remain available no matter what 321Studios does. What we need to start working on is what IfoEdit was about to become, an authoring tool.

There are already many authoring tools out there. While a cheap and/or superior one would be nice there is still much more functionality I would have liked to have seen added to ifoedit besides the authoring. As I said now that I have my burner I have just started using ifoedit alot more and am finding out just how powerful it is but also finding out what I would like to be able to do with it.

The user interface could be much simpler and yet more powerful. I have found it quite confusing at first with a rather steep learning curve.

[DenFussell]

gnutellafan-

You might take a look at something I saw mentioned on another forum somewhere. Let us know what you think.

http://www.dvd2one.com/index.html

Anyone else seen this?

[Doom9]

what does dvd2one has to do with ifoedit?

[DenFussell]

Doom9-

It has absolutely nothing to do with IFOEdit, but it seems to claim to be what some in this thread seem to be looking for.

[dragongodz]

i just had a try of the trial version. yep seems to be a dumbed down ifoedit type clone.
that is you feed in your ifo and it asks what streams you want kept etc and it spits out the new ifos and vobs ready for you to burn with something like nero etc.
bugger all options and not really for any sort of customisation. its basically a beginers tool.
the cost ?

Price is only 39.99 Euro (excl. VAT). Customers from the EU have to pay 19% VAT.

pasted from the website. bit rich huh ? :)

[Doom9]

actually, it has almost nothing to do with ifoedit. IfoEdit allows you to mess around with IFOs and to chop down DVDs. What dvd2one does is something completely different. It transcodes the movie reusing as much info from the existing video (motion vectors, quantization types, etc). It also does IFO parsing and seems to be able to handle multiangle and seamless branching titles (of course only retaining one version of the movie). But the main functionality is transcoding, not stripping.

[Antonio S.]

Doom9 said:what does dvd2one has to do with ifoedit? I think that DVD2ONE will kill Ifoedit and dvdXcopy...

It is extremely fast, quality is OK for reducing VOB files from 6 Gb to 4.37 Gb, it can strip languages and subs faster than Ifoedit. Future editions will allow to split movies and/or keep menus, it is cheap, it is small (90 kb)...

Soon dvdXcopy will be dead ( Derrow's job too )...

Antonio S.

[mpucoder]

I don't think anything will kill interest in IfoEdit. The people confounded by it will migrate to simpler tools like DVDXCopy and DVD2one, but there will always be people who want more.
If DVD2one kills DVDXCopy, well, no tears from me.
One thing we (the IfoEdit enthusiasts) have been looking for is an alternative to ReMPEG2. DVD2one sounds like it may be useful in that respect, and at only 90K reverse engineering should be quite easy.

[DenFussell]

I tried DVD2One and on movies where the transcoding is not an excessive amount, it looks pretty darn good.

What impresses the heck out of me is it's speed. I agree that it's major attraction is as a transcoder and as such needs a few handles available to the user.

I can see using IFOEdit to make all the tweaks a guy wants and then using this new tool simply for transcoding. It seems to do effortlessly what so many find to be so difficult using Rempeg2 & TMPGEnc.

I still can't get over the speed!!

[dragongodz]

Doom9, what i meant was it uses some of the some functions as ifoedit. it does process the ifo and vobs to strip streams and to make new ifos ready to burn(just as you can with ifoedit).
yes if the film is still to large then it processing the motion vectors etc. since there are quite a few films that can be made to fit a dvd-r simply by stripping all extra streams and dropping all extras (so just main movie) then that part of dvd2one is an important part of it. without those functions the quality of the end film (for large films) would be very questionable.
anyway, back to ifoedit. so ,besides the known bugs needing fixing, where do people think ifoedit was heading functionality wise ?

[Chumboy]

all,

well, i bought dvd2one last night...full version.

tried it on Bourne Identity (ntsc)

Bourne Identity = 116 minutes = 6.62gig main movie

ripped with smartripper in backup mode.
turned dvd2one loose at it.
it took 20 minutes and gave me a 4.22gig video_ts folder.
used ifoedit to make image file.
burned using gear dvdpro.

i have to say...I am VERY impressed. there were no artifacts and the picture was amazingly sharp...better than when i used rempeg2.

i have decided to use the following apps in the following ways:
1. movies < 4.32gig = ifoedit
2. movies 4.4gig - 6.2gig = dvd2one
3. movies > 6.3gig = ifoedit split disc

summary...i love this product and will continue to use it often.

[Antonio S.]

Chumboy said:

have decided to use the following apps in the following ways:
1. movies < 4.32gig = ifoedit
2. movies 4.4gig - 6.2gig = dvd2one
3. movies > 6.3gig = ifoedit split disc

As a matter of fact, movies that are < 4.32 gig are NOT transcode by DVD2ONE, so you can use it and even strip unwanted languages.
For process #3, at this moment it cannot split files, but this option will be implemented in next version...

Antonio S.

[Chumboy]

antonio,

yes...i'm only using dvd2one for option #2.

#1 and 3 i'm using ifoedit.

but, you make a good point, why not use dvd2one for option #1.

good point.

what a great program.

i was so hoping ifoedit would get to this point.

COME BACK, DERROW, COME BACK !!!