Attention DVD prog Developers!!!

[mghtbgiant]

::steps on soapbox::

>TAP< >TAP< >TAP<

AHEM...

i have an idea. i would be willing to help commission and/or contribute to a project that did something like the following....

first of all, the program would combine functionality of DVDDecrypter/SmartRipper, VOBRator, IFOEdit, and use Nero kernel for burning. see where this is going.. one program instead of 12,234,621,631,866,341,762,844.9234!

you would open the program.. it would read and analyze your dvd drive. it would show all the content, and you would be able to preview VOBs/Cells right there.. using real-time DeCSS if needbe to open the VOB.. this way you can tell where the FBI warnings are and such before copying the whole thing to your disk. So, now you rip only the pieces that you want.. (ideally everything minus movie company crap and fbi fluff).

heres where the program gets really smart.. are you sitting down??

ill explain my recent (ONGOING) quest and then ill continue. what i have been on a quest to do is take, say, a DVD-9 movie, where the movie itself is 4.7+ GB and use AVISynth or whatever to reencode it to shrink the size, obviously with as little loss to video quality as possible, all the while, keeping all extras, menus, etc. it would also prioritize.. if the movie was small enough, but the extras took it over the limit.. it would reencode them first and calculate how much space it would save, and/or need to save.. since this prog would have a VOBrator-esque ability built-in, you could remove the standard (or widescreen) aspect ratio and selection menu as well when you copy to hard drive.

it would be sweet-ass-sweet if something could do all this for me.. anyway.. on with the show.. so, in theory.. we have a brand new program that will analyze a disc, recognize that (because its in the settings or something) you intend to create a DVDVideo compilation (a la Nero) and obviously you have a DVD-5 burner (therefore only 4.7GB to work with).. said program sees that you have a DVD-9 in the drive, and does all the reencoding and everything for you.. with the click of a button.. i dont know how reauthoring works, but you could read each individual VOB when you rip it and save the original chapter markers (if it saves them by time), this way, they can be re-inserted after the video file has gone through the AVIsynth-esque wringer.. so, what you end up with is a DVD-9 on a single DVD-5.. granted the video quality will be slightly less, however well worth it IMO to get the whole thing on one disc.

this is a grossly oversimplified synopsis of the new super-program, ultra user-friendly yadda yadda.. if there is anyone even remotely interested in starting such a project, i am a programmer, and although i am just getting into this whole dvd backup scene, i am a very quick learner and would be willing to contribute what i can.. also, i could provide more detailed requirements.

for the work that would go into this, and the work it would save people like me.. i dont think many people would have a problem paying for such an illustrious and indespensible utility!!

POST REPLIES to this thread if this could be of interest to anyone reading this, and lets see if we can generate enough interest (with incentive) for the wonderful programmers of the world to unite and create the ultimate in DVD-Backup utilities!!

::steps off soapbox::

[oddyseus]

I believe that the whole purpose of this fora is to help people that love fiddling around with audio and video stuff with their quest in this wonderful realm.

It isn't supposed to produce a click-only-do-it-all-4-u utility that u use to copy a movie. That is why I rarely use such a utility myself.

The goal here is to understand and manipulate the elementary streams to your will.

Just my thoughts here. Don't start flaming.

[killingspree]

apart from kind of violating the true spirit of this site including the fora (as odysseus said) i got the following doubts:
you are promoting (even if it doesn't exist right now) a software that would have to be paid for. if you look at the guides, the fora and everything else on this site, you'll seldom see any program discussed which people have to pay for. (well except M$ crap you somehow can't get rid of)

anyway if you are going too far in this direction (i'm not saying you did already, but you are heading the wrong way at the moment) you might want to see and consider what happened to people like DVDidiot and newbie2002 lately.

still the basics of your idea are definitely worth a thought, although i'm still one of these, who rather want's to understand, or at least be aware of the single steps happening during any process of a/v conversation. especially people who don't want to put as much time into the process of backing up their DVD might find this idea interesting. the only disturbing fact about all this, is that you want to make money out of this idea. As long as you don't move from this, you won't find too much of support around here.

no offence though, just reconsider the part about payment (nothing against VOLUNTARY (as opposed to DVDidiots REQUIRED) donations though) and then you might want to post your idea /thoughts over in the developpers/ programmers forum.

regards
steVe

[mghtbgiant]

i was just offering the idea of a funded project for developers to receive donations, not me.. i thought it might make it more worthwhile for developers as even i, a 21st century blackbeard, would not mind paying for such a stupendous prog. thats all.. i wasnt trying to solicit donations.

however, i wouldnt mind trying to gather/define requirements to create such a program.. im one that likes to have my cake and eat it too, so this program would not only be enticing to the uncaring newbie, but also the very involved a/v capturing extraordinaire with its endless tweaking abilities to those who wish to delve deep into the realms of no-newbies-land, that dark place where only a heart broken gollum would live in despair having just realizing he lost the precious..

so, anyway.. if this thread needs to move to a developer forum on we go.. i will be glad to discuss possible direction for this wonder-program.

anyway.. if anyone thinks this is worth more thought and maybe even a preliminary plan-layout.. let me know and well brainstorm.. like i have said before.. i am relatively new to this dvd backup and such and i am not aware of at least 50% of capturing capabilities as far as tweakability.. so that is where i would need to draw off of other, far more experienced, a/v ripping vets.

well.. sorry if i approached a line.. it was completely unintentional.

thank you,
~nathan.

[mghtbgiant]

It isn't supposed to produce a click-only-do-it-all-4-u utility that u use to copy a movie.

i realize this.. and im not suggesting the industrialization, assembly-line takeover of finely crafted, expertly tweaked a/v capturing.. par se.

and i mean no flame.. but if the leet a/v capturers find no use in such a program, dont use it.. i am a newbie whose main purpose of entering this realm is backing up dvds. i get annoyed when what i need done is obviously possible, but those in the know wouldnt consider making things easier for the newcomer.. it takes me back to calculus.. derivatives.. at least with one of my teachers.. you have to go through and memorize all the long-ass formulas so that when the time comes you have learnt to "appreciate" the short-hand rules that you can do in one line as opposed to sheets of tedious fill-in formulas. can i do the long-hand.. sure.. does it waste more paper and my time.. obviously. am i lazy?? is the pope catholic? precisely my point.

i mean no offense. i am just an idealist. i am totally (well, at least marginally) interested in learning the fine tweaking in the underbelly of the a/v conversion beast.. but for right now, when i have 1,093 other projects going on at my full-time job and at home.. i just want to back up my dvds.

given technology and computer software nowadays.. there are very few programs that are worth the virtual ink used to write them. in theory, this prog would be something that would be useful to both the lazy newbie and the hardcore leetist alike. a program that, if all you know is how to hit a button.. everything gets done for you, but if you want to tweak each stream individually, using the codec of your choice on each segment of a/v.. then so be it.. the power will be given unto you. i dont see why some people are too proud to use something because its convenient and/or user-friendly.

ill stop now because i really dont mean/want to offend anyone.. i posted it in the newbie section to try to arouse newbie interest as this would be a program probably predominantly used by us newbies (im sure others would come around) =)

so, all that said.. im sleepy and its bedtime!
~nathan. ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Big Cat]

Originally posted by oddyseus
It isn't supposed to produce a click-only-do-it-all-4-u utility that u use to copy a movie. That is why I rarely use such a utility myself.


But not everyone loves that, for one because the many guides and post are fractioned, unclear, over the heads of those of us just getting into this, ambiguous ... To say the least.

I just tried using the Xvid guide and did so LITERALLY, and I bombed before I even got to step 3 ...

He has a point, there is a need for an all in one program for movie enthusiasts that do not enjoy the fiddling. So far such programs have failed and failed miserably. I remember moviejack2. What a piece of crap that was.

Then again, I would just be happy if the Xvid guide was clearer and had more screenshots.

[mghtbgiant]

like i said before, this would be a program that would offer to the one-clickers an all in one solution to do that one click which they so yearn to do.. but there will also be a deeper, darker side for those dimented enough to tread into such craters of the underworld.

the latter part i have no clue about.. i have attempted to scratch the surface with AVIsynth to not much avail.. but so far, my knowledge is pretty sufficient as far as backing up DVD-5 to DVD-5 or 1 DVD-9 to 2 DVD-5 using.. DVDDecrypter/SmartRipper, VOBRator, IFOEdit, and Nero/DiscJuggler or whatever prog you prefer to burn dvd videos with. my goal is dvd backup.. im not gearing this towards creating vcds or converting to anything besides mpeg2 (obviously except when the movie is more than 4.7GB and needs to be shrunk - in any case, it would soon return to mpeg2 anyway).

i need to first see that there is enough user interest to even draw up a spec.. and then maybe present the spec, showing the user interest, to entice developers to start programming on this mammouth.

WHOS WITH ME?!?!??!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Big Cat]

I like the Gordianknot principle, just you know, a little more solid. Less options for the beginners, or at least a good help file explaining default settings, so you don't have to screw around to much, and include the Vdub and nandub in the actual program.

And like programs for all such actions, whether ripping to divx5, dixv3, xvid, vcd, svcd and what have you not.

The options are still there for all the fanatics and experts, this sort of thing is just nice for the beginners as a step up.

[wangofree]

Being a super newbie, I've probably spent 60 hours or better trying to backup a dvd9 into a dvd5, and still haven't accomplished it.

Have I enjoyed it? Yes, to a certain extent, but man, how frustrating it has been at times. And during those times, that's when I would gladly cough up the dough for a "magic" all encompassing program that would muscle a nice copy of a dvd9 onto one disk.

Why is that? Because I'm 50, pretty much like everyone else, overworked, and only have a finite amount of time and brainpower to work through all the permutations. (and following all the guides to the letter, only to realize at frustration's failure that I missed "something" somewhere, and start over again - aagh!)

So, the "lightbulb" hasn't gone off in my head yet. I haven't reached DVD knowledge nirvanna. I will keep trying, but oh how tempting to look for a DVD clone program.

So, for all the helpful senior members. Some of us haven't got there yet, and don't have as much time to pursue this fascinating world.

As always, thanks for your help. It is much appreciated.

[oddyseus]

I think that an apologie is in order here to wangofree and to all other newbie members that have tried, followed the guides, taken a taste of this magnificent world but don't have the time to pursue it further.

Yes for this kind of people a do-it-all dvd copy cause they already been there.

[KinchTheKnifeblade]

OK... forget about 1 click - its for dopes (right now at least)
How about about 5 clicks, wait 8 hours (3 pass) and then about 6 more clicks and you will have a perfect dvd9 to dvd5 copy of the feature only. (If you want menus then reauthor with something else - I'm guessing you won't.)

1. Get dvd2dvd-r. The install program is in german (you'll work it out) but the application is in english. This application is all
Google will give the address for it.

2. Then get cce for the recompression stage - this is expensive but you'll get there, maybe a demo version ...(or something)

This application wil install its own copy of ifoedit, mpeg2dec and dvd2avi which it uses during processing

Once you have chosen stream elements to retain dvd2dvd-r/CCE does everything else

DO not use your computer at all!! once the process starts because you will screw up the automatic reauthoring with ifoedit when the recompression has completed

All you have to do then is copy the subtitle colour set from the orig ifo to the newly authored ifo and burn with nero

This is as easy it gets for free - alternatively blow 100 bucks on software that, until last version, was 24 mb pre-install and has about 9000 mailings in their support forum

I'm not advertising dvd2dvd-r nor am I related to the developers. However it seems to be the best kept secret on this site and if it kills off the bleatings of the oneclick brigade then great!!

KinchTheKnifeblade

[mghtbgiant]

thank you for the insight on this way of doing things.. i will get the aforementioned programs..

one-click brigade will not quit bleating, however, until there is a (at least close to) one-click solution. let the newbies revel in their own inferiority with this innate desire to save time in this fast-paced world.

there is nothing wrong (not that i can see anyway) with developing ONE program to do everything you need. i dont even so much care for one-click as i do for one program.. i get tired of having to have 4 programs open at one time when each piece does a small part of the puzzle.. why not create a cumulative effort to integrate functionality into one download.. one install.. one guide..

i dont mean to flame but this wasnt meant for biggoted leetists to show us silly one-click wonders what a/v life was really about. it was a friendly delving into the possibility of bettering everyones foray into this seemingly evil empire.

<opinion>
no matter what the skill level, for someone to say they would rather download/learn to use 8 programs, instead of one is just silly.
</opinion>

KinchTheKnifeblade: your comments were well taken by me at least, but there was no need for if it kills off the bleatings of the oneclick brigade then great!!

sheesh.. i had no idea a funny little time-saving idea would cause such a ruckuss. guess thats the naive, unintelligent, incapable newbie in me.

[KinchTheKnifeblade]

Hi there
You're right the last comment was unnecessary so sorry but here's what I think and I'm not meaning to be 'leetist' - far from it as you can see I'm a junior memeber her myself. However...

One click software exists - dvdxcopy - it's 100 dollars. Alternatively clonedvd is coming out in the next few months and I imagine it will be better and cheaper than the 321 offering
If you value your time then one of these is a good investment

Everything else here is freeware. The investment required is time not money. I think it's a little presumptuous for anyone who hasn't time to learn the apps and processes to suggest that he will "gather specifications" for such a new application. If you don't understand it you can't spec it at anything other than a wishlist level - not a flame - just an observation after 15 years in the software business.

It can't hurt to make the suggestion as you have done but maybe its a little naiive to think it hasn't been considered before and continues to be considered and what is delaying it is the sheer number and variety of technical difficulties associated with the application you describe.

Anyway I look back and see the words presumptuous and naiive in my text but notwithstanding that I really mean no offence. A suggestion never hurt anyone after all.
Peace

KinchTheKnifeblade

[mghtbgiant]

everythings cool.. you are absolutely right about spec'ing an app for a process with which i am very unfamiliar.. but then you were also right in my true intention which was a wish list.. what it could do (which im sure my wishes would be easily surpassed by someone who has done this for a long time).

im also sure other people have thought about it.. i was just trying to spark an interest in following through with such ideas. i wanted to see if anyone was interested in helping to support such development (voluntary donations and/or development).

i am a developer, but i have no time, and no know how on this whole process, as weve already concluded =) i would have time, however, to generate a list of "oooh, thatd be cool"'s.

i did have a brainstorm though. your previous post with your way of ripping dvd9 might be, with a little tweaking, exactly what i needed to find. my whole reason for starting this thread was because i wanted to backup an entire dvd9 (special features, menus, etc) on to 1 dvd5. obviously some video reencoding would be necessary. this i had/have not done. but i wanted to take the original feature, reencode it (maintaining all chapters) and then just swap out with the original VOBs which, it looks like i could do..

i will try this: i will follow your way of ripping just the movie while maintaining the chapters.. but, instead of stopping there and having ifoedit renumber my vobs i will leave them the same, and place them in the original dvd directory that was ripped with dvddecrypter/smartripper.. would this not work?? heh, the wonderful conundrum of programming.. IN THEORY..

this will take me a while as i havent got a dedicated dvd machine and i am currently working from home )=

i will post with results when i get the chance later tonight..

cheers,
~nathan.

[mghtbgiant]

alright.. im getting quite annoyed.. not only am i not fluent in german, but googles translation (as any mechanical translation) leaved a little to be desired.

i finally was able to "create an account" however, every time i log into the site it tells me my status is offline, and i am unable to get to the download section..

HeLP!

[KinchTheKnifeblade]

Hi there again
Here is the url for the software
Good luck - if you need any help then just pm me

h**p://www.movie2digital.de/forum/software.html


Kinch

[killingspree]

well it seems that there finally is an accaptable, though not free solution, for those of you that 'just' want to copy their dvds to dvd-r!
here's the article on chip.de (sorry, german only)
http://www.chip.de/produkte_tests/produkte_tests_9531420.html

basically this is a product which can both split a dvd to fit to one dvd-r or strip it down enough so that one can burn it to ONE dvd-r
it doesn't seem to be able to handle reencoding though!
price: €40

regards
steVe

PS: this is not an advertisement, i just want to point some people to this software which have been looking for something like this for a while! i have no experience with this program so i cannot give a recommendation (:

[KinchTheKnifeblade]

very interesting - we seem to be in the middle of some sort of great leap forward

dvdxcopy ($100!!) then...
dvd2one ($40) - they've started talking about this in the dvd burning forum here
Now the one KillingSpree mentions (can't see a demo though)

What lightbulb has suddenly gone off that these are now all emerging so rapidly

Kinch

[killingspree]

Originally posted by KinchTheKnifeblade


What lightbulb has suddenly gone off that these are now all emerging so rapidly

Kinch

well, that's the (computer) industry (: a lot of people get dvd burners, most of them WANT to copy their DVDs, but almost none, or at least the biggest part, of them knows how to, or even has the chance to learn it on a page like doom9. so there's an increasing demand for such programs -> industry thinks there's some money to make -> programs are offered!

that's how it goes :-P

regards
steVe

[KinchTheKnifeblade]

and yet another posting has just come in in the dvd burning group for another product (looks like vapourware at the moment though)

h**p://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductP...ue_ID=2&SID=199


Kinch

[budwic@2023]

Well im not going to quote your entire post but mightbgiant have you heard of 321 studios or VCD galaxy pretty much the same thing you are talking about here. And they are already very user friendly, and produce somtimes better quality than DVD (if done correctly). http://kgxnz.orcon.net.nz/smilies/soapbox.gif

[Xayd]

I don't think I'll have faith in any of these programs coming out until I can see one in action copying successfully a very complex DVD-9.

I haven't been burning my DVDs to DVD-Rs for very long either, just about 3 weeks now, but after I've taken the time to learn how they work, break them down and reauthor them, etc., I just don't see how any "point and click" program will ever be able to make a complete copy of any and every DVD out there with no hassles.

There's just no standard way to do any of it, recreating a DVD-9 will vary with each disc since they all vary by how they were authored to begin with.

At this point I'm content with CCE/Maestro/IfoUpdate methods of recreating DVDs. I get better playback quality than an all-in-one applicaiton with ever give, and due to the speed of CCE the total time before the final burn is what, about 1 hour for prep work, real time to re-encode, and another 20 minutes to reauthor and correct the IFOS? For a 1.5 hour movie this is less than 3 hours, most of which takes place on my second comp (the re-encoding) while I play BF1942 ;).

In short if you have the software to do it the "hard way" it's not that difficult or time consuming, and I don't think people will sacrifice the superior quality of the final product just for an easier application to accomplish it with. On top of that I personally like the cool menus, trailers, choice of sound playback, etc. There is no single application that will preserve EVERYTHING on a DVD-9 yet, nor do I think there will be one in the near future that works with every DVD-9.

[oddyseus]

Xayd is quite right. I think I have explained the reasoning in a previous post